Is it really that much easier to combo Time Warp with Vargoth + win condition(s) than the traditional win conditions of time warp decks? Sure, it improves consistency to add an alternate win condition, but these decks are typically so tightly stretched that you're sacrificing consistency in card draw or defense to include it.
It isn't. Vargoth is rarely, if ever, used in mage combo decks.
Blizzard: "We butchered Kingsbane Rogue because it invalidates control decks."
Also Blizzard: "We don't want to nerf Barnes because we're afraid it might hurt big priest."
Hey Blizzard, take a look at the wild meta and tell me how many control decks you see, will you? Wanna know why that is? Because they're being invalidated by big priest.
And oh heavens no please don't hurt big priest, anything but that! It's not like the majority of wild players want that deck to have the most gruesome, painful death possible.
Also, their reasoning for not giving priest a good classic board clear seems like a bad excuse for them being too afraid to create a new classic card that might actually be good.
Tbh, i also think Archmage Vargoth is broken, but because of Big Priest, not in Quest Mage, where he's just a winmore card in most cases.
This, usually Quest mage has already won at that point without needing Vargoth.
While I can understand that this might be unfun to be the victim of, it isn't a particularly good or consistent combo. Most lists don't run Vargoth because he's a dead card in far too many matchups.
Yeah I was pretty confused about the voice line change as well since Lyra the Sunshard doesn't really qualify as a "he", nor did I find any actual confirmation on the change.
Not a fan of Archmage Vargoth since it seems pretty dead in many occasions.
You can wait to kill it during burst, and try to use several minions minions together on the board and/or if you are holding enough burst no matter what (eg. Ice Lance & co).
Mirror Image can be included both against Aggro, and Obsidian/Ragnaros.
Ultimately, you can also include Polymorph: Boar which can also be used on your own minions for burst, whenever you don't need it to deny dangerous bodies.
Oh my bad, I wrote a thread because today a Golden Khadgar dropped, the last of the mage legendaries I required to compete the collection.
Then I read the article back and felt the whole thing was pointless so I tried to delete it. Seemingly however I failed and instead created an even more pointless thread than the original.
*Looks at palm, closes eyes, hits own face.
Oh you can delete your own threads? Interesting.
Hey, congrats on the golden Khadgar man. Good stuff!
It challenges the board with even more AoE and said [Hearthstone Card (corpsetakers) Not Found]. Which seems to be the most effective manner, seeing how that person got #1 legend as you said.
How did I undermine anything though? viciousSyndicate clearly linked that #1 legend deck and still placed it in tier 4. Why is that, you think?
I have asked you multiple times when you ever get to lategame, because there's about three decks that actually care about getting to lategame (see my previous posts). I thought that question wasn't too difficult...
So I've been playing a bit of miracle mage recently as many other decks in wild were getting a little boring. Obviously the deck is really good and allows for quite some variety with all the discovering and random spells.
Only thing that's limiting my joy is, big surprise, big priest. According to viciousSyndicate and Tempostorm's latest meta reports the deck is very favored against these degenerates. Yet I can never seem to win against them. I usually have trouble clearing all their taunt minions to make way for my giants and don't have enough reach to burst them down from hand.
So, any tips regarding this matchup are welcome. At what turn do you go "in"? How do you deal with multiple The Lich King or Obsidian Statue? Some good VODs, videos and replays are welcome too. I've found a few on a deck guide over at HP, but two out of those three were won because of 1. multiple polymorph effects being generated and 2. multiple Counterspell being generated. Thanks in advance.
On a quick sidenote: hsreplay doesn't have matchup statistics for wild, does it? I always rely on Tempostorm's and viciousSyndicate's but I find the former to not always be accurate and the latter doesn't update often.
Quess my deck isnt then "shuddrwock shaman" as it deals with those matchups well. Imo reports like that arent the best to picture slower shaman decks as shaman is so versatile and can be built a myriad of ways.
You can run jades and shudderwock and call it a shudderwock shaman but you can have it be anti big priest with transform effects, aggressive midrange deck or anti aggro deck with ton of aoes and healing. All of those decks could be called jadeshudder decks with loatheb shudder finish but the matchups can change drastically depending on other cards.
Atleast for me control shaman has worked well with beating the occasional paladins, hunters, zoo, token druid, aggressive rogue variants and murloc + even shamans. Burn and some mage OTKs decks have still been problem but you hardly can counter everything.
Ofc the winrate isnt 100 or near it, but having a good winrate vs aggro and big priest is quite a good standing point in current wild metagame. Can be wrong about the card but its insta golden craft for me as it gives me brann to use any turn I want and currently those turns come often.
Except the Shudderwock shaman list in the meta report runs all the anti aggro cards that you mentioned: Healing Rain, Volcano, Hagatha's Scheme, Walking Fountain and Devolve. Additionally, it also runs Maelstrom Portal and the Corpsetaker package with Zilliax. So it runs the same anti aggro shell as you mentioned, if not heavier focused against aggro. Yet the results are as I mentioned in my previous post. Awful matchup against most (semi) aggresive decks.
Also, again, what do lategame jades do when there's barely any control decks out there. Why would you run them over an actual finisher like Shudderwock?
I think you can probably safely craft brightwing but hold off on Whitemane. A better legendary in her stead would be something like zilliax as he is relevant to every deck in hearthstone right now just such a valuable heal. He may not look flashy but he gets the job done. Although he will be rotating so keep that in mind.
Yes! Zilliax is (arguably) the best legendary in standard. you can play him in just about every single deck you make. he is versatile and strong.
either one of those would be loads better than brightwing or whitemane
OP didn't listen and went ahead and crafted Brightwing anyway. Which begs the question why they created a thread asking for suggestions in the first place.
Many keywords aren't anything new. Charged Devilsaur had rush before the keyword became a thing. Unstable Evolution was an echo card before that keyword was introduced, etc...
Whether the keyword will be interesting depends largely on the cards they will print for it. The warrior one so far looks decent.
Charged Devilsaur is the prototype of how rush should work one year before they actually realized how it works.. it's not exactly rush since if the card is cheated out it can go face.
decent? it looks really powerful when the card is coparable to both Zilliax and Militia Commander in terms of removal and stickiness you know it's a powerful card.
Charged devilsaur having rush wasn't meant to be taken literally, just some insight on previous cards that already contained future keywords. For the most part. Oh well, should've seen this coming.
Yes, the card looks decent seeing how it's a 4 drop for warrior. Militia Commander has deals 1 less damage but has 3 more health. Health is generally far more important of a stat than attack on minions. Additionally, warrior also has Omega Devastator which it will have to compete with. I don't see control warrior running six 4 drops. Eight if we're talking bomb warrior, because there's no way they're going to omit Wrenchcalibur. So yes, compared to warrior's current 4 drops it is a decent card.
For example any jade based control deck gets enormous boost with this card. The ability to pump out 2 jades per card is really something that shouldnt be underestimated. This hero power gives you too much value for ppl to keep up, even priests with their current metric-shit-ton of wild clears cant AoE all my jades away. What happens when almost every of my jade cards require that AoE answer?
Shaman Control decks can already deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well with healing rain + walking fountain + Devolve, Volcano and Scheme. The main problem tends to be big priest if you dont draw hexes and burn decks.
This card solidifies other matchups while also boosting those 2 particular matchups as you can ramp up the jades and thus threat towards them. True the card doesnt work in those decks you described (necessarily), but there are alot of great battlecries that would love to have brann effect on demand.
Shudderwock shaman (the closest thing you'll get to jade shaman) loses against all aggro decks but two: Mech hunter, against which it is slightly favored and aggro paladin, which seems to be a 50/50 matchup. Only other noteworthy thing to mention is that its matchup against even shaman is also, ironically, even.
Other than that, the deck is unfavored against all aggro and midrange decks. So much for it being able to "deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well". As I stated in my previous post. More value isn't going to change its unfavorable matchup against these other aggro and midrange decks, at all.
A single matchup being a problem shouldn't hamper a deck from being high tier, which isn't the case for combo/control shaman. Just look at jade druid and even warlock for example. Both have miserable matchups against big priest, but still perform quite well in today's wild meta.
Lastly, control decks just aren't effective in the wild metagame. Unless they can pull some ridiculous anti-aggro stuff, like odd warrior's hero power and removal, jade druid's armor gain and Spreading Plague and big priest being the tumor that it is. Other than these three decks, not a single deck cares about jade value in the lategame. Because the only decks remaining are the ones that hope to finish you far earlier than said lategame, or OTK you once you manage to actually reach that lategame.
Many keywords aren't anything new. Charged Devilsaur had rush before the keyword became a thing. Unstable Evolution was an echo card before that keyword was introduced, etc...
Whether the keyword will be interesting depends largely on the cards they will print for it. The warrior one so far looks decent.
7 mana deal 2 damage to all divine shield minions. Yeah, no.
Card seems good though. Although expensive board clears aren't exactly the reason control shaman is Inferior to control warrior.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/166-fire-festival-returns-july-10-card-reveal-unlock-progression-legendary-quests-3-brawls
Why not keep the discussion in one place?
Stone Sentinel
Battlecry: summon two minions.
I'm using a OnePlus 3 (android 9.0.4 ) myself and have never had any issues with the game not running, really.
It isn't. Vargoth is rarely, if ever, used in mage combo decks.
Blizzard: "We butchered Kingsbane Rogue because it invalidates control decks."
Also Blizzard: "We don't want to nerf Barnes because we're afraid it might hurt big priest."
Hey Blizzard, take a look at the wild meta and tell me how many control decks you see, will you? Wanna know why that is? Because they're being invalidated by big priest.
And oh heavens no please don't hurt big priest, anything but that! It's not like the majority of wild players want that deck to have the most gruesome, painful death possible.
Also, their reasoning for not giving priest a good classic board clear seems like a bad excuse for them being too afraid to create a new classic card that might actually be good.
This, usually Quest mage has already won at that point without needing Vargoth.
While I can understand that this might be unfun to be the victim of, it isn't a particularly good or consistent combo. Most lists don't run Vargoth because he's a dead card in far too many matchups.
Yeah I was pretty confused about the voice line change as well since Lyra the Sunshard doesn't really qualify as a "he", nor did I find any actual confirmation on the change.
Anyway: Arcane Anomaly
A minion that gains something whenever a spell is cast.
Right, guess I'll need to stall longer then.
Thanks for all the replies!
Oh you can delete your own threads? Interesting.
Hey, congrats on the golden Khadgar man. Good stuff!
Making a post to see what's going on because this is all I can see in this thread.
What do you do about an Obsidian Statue though? Do you kill that before you go in. Do you kill it while going in and risk losing a Sorcerer's Apprentice or Flamewaker?
Not a fan of Archmage Vargoth since it seems pretty dead in many occasions.
It challenges the board with even more AoE and said [Hearthstone Card (corpsetakers) Not Found]. Which seems to be the most effective manner, seeing how that person got #1 legend as you said.
How did I undermine anything though? viciousSyndicate clearly linked that #1 legend deck and still placed it in tier 4. Why is that, you think?
I have asked you multiple times when you ever get to lategame, because there's about three decks that actually care about getting to lategame (see my previous posts). I thought that question wasn't too difficult...
So I've been playing a bit of miracle mage recently as many other decks in wild were getting a little boring. Obviously the deck is really good and allows for quite some variety with all the discovering and random spells.
Only thing that's limiting my joy is, big surprise, big priest. According to viciousSyndicate and Tempostorm's latest meta reports the deck is very favored against these degenerates. Yet I can never seem to win against them. I usually have trouble clearing all their taunt minions to make way for my giants and don't have enough reach to burst them down from hand.
So, any tips regarding this matchup are welcome. At what turn do you go "in"? How do you deal with multiple The Lich King or Obsidian Statue? Some good VODs, videos and replays are welcome too. I've found a few on a deck guide over at HP, but two out of those three were won because of 1. multiple polymorph effects being generated and 2. multiple Counterspell being generated. Thanks in advance.
On a quick sidenote: hsreplay doesn't have matchup statistics for wild, does it? I always rely on Tempostorm's and viciousSyndicate's but I find the former to not always be accurate and the latter doesn't update often.
Except the Shudderwock shaman list in the meta report runs all the anti aggro cards that you mentioned: Healing Rain, Volcano, Hagatha's Scheme, Walking Fountain and Devolve. Additionally, it also runs Maelstrom Portal and the Corpsetaker package with Zilliax. So it runs the same anti aggro shell as you mentioned, if not heavier focused against aggro. Yet the results are as I mentioned in my previous post. Awful matchup against most (semi) aggresive decks.
Also, again, what do lategame jades do when there's barely any control decks out there. Why would you run them over an actual finisher like Shudderwock?
OP didn't listen and went ahead and crafted Brightwing anyway. Which begs the question why they created a thread asking for suggestions in the first place.
Oh well, their loss.
Charged devilsaur having rush wasn't meant to be taken literally, just some insight on previous cards that already contained future keywords. For the most part. Oh well, should've seen this coming.
Yes, the card looks decent seeing how it's a 4 drop for warrior. Militia Commander has deals 1 less damage but has 3 more health. Health is generally far more important of a stat than attack on minions. Additionally, warrior also has Omega Devastator which it will have to compete with. I don't see control warrior running six 4 drops. Eight if we're talking bomb warrior, because there's no way they're going to omit Wrenchcalibur. So yes, compared to warrior's current 4 drops it is a decent card.
Since the wild meta is far slower in development I'll use vS' latest meta report despite it being relatively old as reference: https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-17/
Shudderwock shaman (the closest thing you'll get to jade shaman) loses against all aggro decks but two: Mech hunter, against which it is slightly favored and aggro paladin, which seems to be a 50/50 matchup. Only other noteworthy thing to mention is that its matchup against even shaman is also, ironically, even.
Other than that, the deck is unfavored against all aggro and midrange decks. So much for it being able to "deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well". As I stated in my previous post. More value isn't going to change its unfavorable matchup against these other aggro and midrange decks, at all.
A single matchup being a problem shouldn't hamper a deck from being high tier, which isn't the case for combo/control shaman. Just look at jade druid and even warlock for example. Both have miserable matchups against big priest, but still perform quite well in today's wild meta.
Lastly, control decks just aren't effective in the wild metagame. Unless they can pull some ridiculous anti-aggro stuff, like odd warrior's hero power and removal, jade druid's armor gain and Spreading Plague and big priest being the tumor that it is. Other than these three decks, not a single deck cares about jade value in the lategame. Because the only decks remaining are the ones that hope to finish you far earlier than said lategame, or OTK you once you manage to actually reach that lategame.
Many keywords aren't anything new. Charged Devilsaur had rush before the keyword became a thing. Unstable Evolution was an echo card before that keyword was introduced, etc...
Whether the keyword will be interesting depends largely on the cards they will print for it. The warrior one so far looks decent.
I second what Almaniarra said. Secrets and Zul'jin are too slow in the current wild format. Go hard (mid-range) or go home.
For what it's worth: This list has been dubbed tier 2 in vS' latest wild report: [URL]//www.vicioussyndicate.com/midrange-hunter-6/[/URL]
I'd just go with that one if I were you. It's more than legend viable.