The Demon Hunters are upon us! Sadly, they won't have cards from any previous expansions, so it's up to us to make some for them.
You must create a Demon Hunter card for a previous Hearthstone expansion or adventure
Any card set is fair game, excluding Basic, Classic and Ashes of Outland. Make sure you're using the appropriate watermark!
You can only use mechanics introduced up to the expansion or adventure you chose
No Naxxramas cards with Reborn, or GvG cards with Poisonous, for example
You must obey the rarity distribution of previous expansions and adventures
No Naxxramas Legendaries or Blackrock Mountain Epics, please!
Welcome to thepowrofcheese's competition, celebrating our brand new class!
Also note that we've given you space for up to one token for this competition, as a trial run of this method of allowing it. We'll see how it ends up playing out and make adjustments as needed.
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Mar 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Mar 28 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Mar 28 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Mar 29 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Mar 29 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Mar 30 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
As for not being able to predict the hero power, what you're saying is true but think of it in a different way - there are 3 possible outcomes so you can somehow predict them and yet you can never be 100% sure what you will get so you constantly have to adapt. The same goes for your opponents, potentially they have to think about not just one play but MULTIPLE ones based on the hero power that you can get. Such a gameplay dynamic is extremely appealing to me from a design standpoint. Also, you have cards like Aspiring Understudy to counter the randomness.
I understand what you're trying to achieve with the design, I just don't think the result is fun, for either player.
The Shaman Hero Power is already my least favourite, because the randomness inherent in its design doesn't make for fun gameplay. I believe randomness is a core component of Hearthstone, but to have it as a Basic Hero Power, something you'll utilise every time you play as or against a class, is not fun.
To then take the already shaky premise of the Shaman Hero Power, and increase the randomness in such an unfun way - three Hero Powers of differing mana costs and thus power levels - just doesn't seem like fun gameplay to me. Forcing the player to play bad cards in order to somewhat mitigate the randomness doesn't make the idea more appealing, it honestly makes it worse. That's doubling down on and trying to work around a flawed initial idea, in my eyes.
I can try and get behind the idea of three comparably powerful Hero Powers swapping at random - it'd still not be my favourite design idea in the world, but I can see why some people might like that. But currently the randomness is pushed too far.
1-) They first said that UI is limiting them to add new play mode, then they've added Tavern Brawl with same UI. 2-) After that, They said that UI is limiting them to add more deckslots - then they've added +9 deckslots with same UI. 3-) After that, They said that UI is limiting them to add more new play modes, then they've added Battlegrounds with same UI. 4-) After that, They said that UI is limiting them to add more classes, Now They are adding Demon Hunter as a new class with same UI. 5-) It is still same UI and they've said at the reveal stream they will add a new game mode at middle year (Check Phase 2 of Year of the Phoenix)
You are aware that all of these involved UI changes, right? They even showed off a bunch of different iterations they went through when deciding how to add Demon Hunter to the class page. Not all UI changes are complete redesigns, but every minor tweak needs to go through testing both so it doesn't break anything and to decide that it is the best direction for them to take something.
The old UI limited them, so they updated it each time after going through no doubt numerous design ideas to settle on the least intrusive, most intuitive change. They're not out to lie to us for no reason, and to assume malice seems ridiculous to me.
On topic, I think this idea for a class is pretty interesting! I've certainly never seen anything quite like it before.
What I would love to hear from you is a description of how you want the class fantasy to come across. What mechanics are important to the class? What do you imagine the class to be good at, and what do you imagine them to be bad at? Right now I see a lot of mechanics I expect - Lifesteal, Freeze, your new keyword - but I don't know what I'm meant to be working towards if I was designing a deck for the class. Do I want to play Control, or are we trying to be Aggro?
Take Unusual Ascended and Infused Deathseeker, for instance. Novel ideas, certainly, but why are they Death Knight cards? Why do Death Knights care about the cost of cards in your hand? Why do they both have opposite conditions to fulfill?
You've mentioned that you aren't too concerned with balancing right now, so I won't nitpick that. I do think some of the designs seem like odd choices though. Banshee Queen Sylvanas, for example, is either a slightly overstatted minion that deals some damage to you - nothing particularly special, but not bad - or a 5 mana 9/8 Lifesteal with no drawback. And the only thing you have to do is kill three minions, something you'd want to be doing anyway.
The biggest concern right now is the Hero Power, in my opinion. The idea of a Hero Power that swaps randomly is fine historically - it's not really any more random than the Shaman Hero Power, which is my least favourite Hero Power but one that exists. What kills it for me is the fact that each Hero Power has a different cost. That's not fun for you or your opponent. Not only can you not predict what you'll be able to do next turn, you can't even plan your plays with your Hero Power in mind, because you don't know what it's going to cost. Unholy Presence would also need to be completely reworked, that effect can never work as a Basic Hero Power - I'd hesitate to have it exist in the game at all - but that's not the core issue of the design. The Hero Power should be three 2-Cost - or I suppose 1-Cost - options, and then it can swap between them randomly still.
The thing is, new Holy Smite is a much better Control tool. Losing the ability to target face is tiny in the face of a full extra point of damage, in my opinion.
I like that they've made it a much better card, and also killed off another avenue for annoying combo plays.
Oh absolutely - I recreated the card to add to our database - but in that case why didn't they just change Bogstrok Clacker to be consistent with that?
I mean, in reality it doesn't matter at all, but still =P
It's a fairly high price if you play game modes other than Battlegrounds, where you'd be using the cards from those card packs. To those players, the perks were essentially free.
It says that players "no longer have to purchase card packs" which makes me believe that the option to obtain perks via card packs is still there. I can't confirm that, however.
I do know that the Tavern Pass comes as an addition to the Mega Bundle.
Personally, I don't think that they would have announced the stream today if there was any indication from higher-ups that this policy was going to be implemented - which there must have been.
They've built this up far too much for them to want to cancel it; I imagine if worst comes to worst, they'll do it remotely and just be on-call with each other.
I've got to assume that it is that important, given they haven't told us anything yet.
They've said they're sharing more than ever before - maybe there's some big change coming that would be spoiled by showing us anything else beforehand?
They've never changed how many sets they release in a year - they've fluctuated between expansions and adventures, but it's always been three new releases a year.
And, to be completely transparent, Whispers is the exception; the previous year Blackrock Mountain's first wing released on April 2nd, and the majority of new releases do come out early-April, early-August and early-December, barring a couple anomalies.
I just pointed it out to say that the combination of the late announcement of the New Year and this prior expansion releasing later - notably the first after Standard was introduced, a 'big change' - was enough to cast some doubt on the release date.
I really don't think it restricts design all that much. Charge certainly did, because you could end up with the potential for OTKs, but I don't see any issue with Rush.
I'm struggling to come up with a single existing minion that would become in any way an issue with Warsong changed to its old effect but giving Rush instead of Charge.
Instead of thinking of it as 'Can't attack Heroes', think of it as 'Can attack minions'. Giving something Rush that can already attack this turn doesn't do anything because it can already attack minions.
After all, the first interpretation wouldn't mean anything at all - so what if this minion can't attack Heroes, it can't attack anything when it's first played!
Competition Theme: Are You Prepared?
The Demon Hunters are upon us! Sadly, they won't have cards from any previous expansions, so it's up to us to make some for them.
Welcome to thepowrofcheese's competition, celebrating our brand new class!
Also note that we've given you space for up to one token for this competition, as a trial run of this method of allowing it. We'll see how it ends up playing out and make adjustments as needed.
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
I understand what you're trying to achieve with the design, I just don't think the result is fun, for either player.
The Shaman Hero Power is already my least favourite, because the randomness inherent in its design doesn't make for fun gameplay. I believe randomness is a core component of Hearthstone, but to have it as a Basic Hero Power, something you'll utilise every time you play as or against a class, is not fun.
To then take the already shaky premise of the Shaman Hero Power, and increase the randomness in such an unfun way - three Hero Powers of differing mana costs and thus power levels - just doesn't seem like fun gameplay to me. Forcing the player to play bad cards in order to somewhat mitigate the randomness doesn't make the idea more appealing, it honestly makes it worse. That's doubling down on and trying to work around a flawed initial idea, in my eyes.
I can try and get behind the idea of three comparably powerful Hero Powers swapping at random - it'd still not be my favourite design idea in the world, but I can see why some people might like that. But currently the randomness is pushed too far.
You are aware that all of these involved UI changes, right? They even showed off a bunch of different iterations they went through when deciding how to add Demon Hunter to the class page. Not all UI changes are complete redesigns, but every minor tweak needs to go through testing both so it doesn't break anything and to decide that it is the best direction for them to take something.
The old UI limited them, so they updated it each time after going through no doubt numerous design ideas to settle on the least intrusive, most intuitive change. They're not out to lie to us for no reason, and to assume malice seems ridiculous to me.
On topic, I think this idea for a class is pretty interesting! I've certainly never seen anything quite like it before.
What I would love to hear from you is a description of how you want the class fantasy to come across. What mechanics are important to the class? What do you imagine the class to be good at, and what do you imagine them to be bad at? Right now I see a lot of mechanics I expect - Lifesteal, Freeze, your new keyword - but I don't know what I'm meant to be working towards if I was designing a deck for the class. Do I want to play Control, or are we trying to be Aggro?
Take Unusual Ascended and Infused Deathseeker, for instance. Novel ideas, certainly, but why are they Death Knight cards? Why do Death Knights care about the cost of cards in your hand? Why do they both have opposite conditions to fulfill?
You've mentioned that you aren't too concerned with balancing right now, so I won't nitpick that. I do think some of the designs seem like odd choices though. Banshee Queen Sylvanas, for example, is either a slightly overstatted minion that deals some damage to you - nothing particularly special, but not bad - or a 5 mana 9/8 Lifesteal with no drawback. And the only thing you have to do is kill three minions, something you'd want to be doing anyway.
The biggest concern right now is the Hero Power, in my opinion. The idea of a Hero Power that swaps randomly is fine historically - it's not really any more random than the Shaman Hero Power, which is my least favourite Hero Power but one that exists. What kills it for me is the fact that each Hero Power has a different cost. That's not fun for you or your opponent. Not only can you not predict what you'll be able to do next turn, you can't even plan your plays with your Hero Power in mind, because you don't know what it's going to cost. Unholy Presence would also need to be completely reworked, that effect can never work as a Basic Hero Power - I'd hesitate to have it exist in the game at all - but that's not the core issue of the design. The Hero Power should be three 2-Cost - or I suppose 1-Cost - options, and then it can swap between them randomly still.
The thing is, new Holy Smite is a much better Control tool. Losing the ability to target face is tiny in the face of a full extra point of damage, in my opinion.
I like that they've made it a much better card, and also killed off another avenue for annoying combo plays.
When a minion goes Dormant, it will lose any buffs it had on it. When it reawakens it'll be a base copy of the minion.
I absolutely love this kind of teaser - it's still incredibly vague, but each piece of information is just specific enough to excite somebody.
Dinosaur Turtle, for example, is clearly just for me :D
Oh absolutely - I recreated the card to add to our database - but in that case why didn't they just change Bogstrok Clacker to be consistent with that?
I mean, in reality it doesn't matter at all, but still =P
Never surprised, but ever hopeful :D
'random ones' vs 'random minions'
Please Blizzard, some spare consistency? Just a tad, for your good pal Shadows.
The anger is stemming from the lack of clarity about what perks - if any - will be available purely from purchasing packs.
If you can no longer get any perks from purchasing packs, this is a strict downgrade for anyone who doesn't only play Battlegrounds.
It's a fairly high price if you play game modes other than Battlegrounds, where you'd be using the cards from those card packs. To those players, the perks were essentially free.
It says that players "no longer have to purchase card packs" which makes me believe that the option to obtain perks via card packs is still there. I can't confirm that, however.
I do know that the Tavern Pass comes as an addition to the Mega Bundle.
All 12 of the non-Basic cards feature a previously unseen watermark, presumably the one for the upcoming expansion.
As far as I can tell, we haven't seen any of their Classic cards yet, which is very exciting.
Competition Theme: Ménagerie à Trois
For this competition, we want you to care about minion types (or tribes, or whatever you want to call them).
Welcome back to another competition, this time from shaveyou!
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Personally, I don't think that they would have announced the stream today if there was any indication from higher-ups that this policy was going to be implemented - which there must have been.
They've built this up far too much for them to want to cancel it; I imagine if worst comes to worst, they'll do it remotely and just be on-call with each other.
I've got to assume that it is that important, given they haven't told us anything yet.
They've said they're sharing more than ever before - maybe there's some big change coming that would be spoiled by showing us anything else beforehand?
They've never changed how many sets they release in a year - they've fluctuated between expansions and adventures, but it's always been three new releases a year.
And, to be completely transparent, Whispers is the exception; the previous year Blackrock Mountain's first wing released on April 2nd, and the majority of new releases do come out early-April, early-August and early-December, barring a couple anomalies.
I just pointed it out to say that the combination of the late announcement of the New Year and this prior expansion releasing later - notably the first after Standard was introduced, a 'big change' - was enough to cast some doubt on the release date.
I really don't think it restricts design all that much. Charge certainly did, because you could end up with the potential for OTKs, but I don't see any issue with Rush.
I'm struggling to come up with a single existing minion that would become in any way an issue with Warsong changed to its old effect but giving Rush instead of Charge.
Instead of thinking of it as 'Can't attack Heroes', think of it as 'Can attack minions'. Giving something Rush that can already attack this turn doesn't do anything because it can already attack minions.
After all, the first interpretation wouldn't mean anything at all - so what if this minion can't attack Heroes, it can't attack anything when it's first played!
Lackeys are also rotating cards. I'm saying that I don't think any of the cards mentioned are too powerful to be a card in the Basic or Classic set.
Too complicated for Basic, sure, but too powerful? I don't see it.