Bugs with this card are consistently inconsistent. I played the coin into it the other day, and it turned into Flurry (Rank 1), which did not cast and my opponent's only minion remained unfrozen. Then later that same day, my opponent coined when I had this same secret up, turned into Flurry again, but my minion got frozen. Yogg just hating on me personally?
Normally I would say that there's probably a reason for that, but after getting scammed out of Legend by getting Yogg'd into Shadow Council I can say with definitive certainty: Yes, Yogg was designed with the sole purpose of frustrating players into a violent rage.
For fuck's sake, just remove this broken cards. It's probably responsible for like half of Paladin's success and it doesn't even work properly.
Oh obviously, but in some situations you can't wait to corrupt the thing and just have to jam it for tempo, in which case it has additional value with N'zoth.
Realistically your N'zoth would summon 3 small minions and an Inquisitor, but every once in a while you get an extra 4/3.
I think the ideal way is to run Felsteel Executioner for the (sometimes) Elemental and the Flyers and then you essentially get between 3 and 4 minions back from N'zoth, one of which will smash face for 8, which should be enough to close out games.
Only problem I see is that it might be too slow, but then again, we still have 2 more expansions and any tribal deathrattles (or just generally good cards) could make this a viable gameplan
it's weird how some of these buffs feel like downright apologies.
Like, Unbound Elemental, Tidal Surge, Shieldmaiden and Fiendish Circle literally just got adjusted to be at the standard powerlevel of regular cards of the same cost (Circle and Surge being the most egregious offenders). It's not so much buffs as it is fixing what shouuld have been in the first place.
Same goes for Xanesh. Card is still completely pointless in Priest, but at least now it functions like you would expect it to.
if you honestly believe that a single card draw card is the only factor that elevated a meme deck to a tier 1 tournament killer then you're delusional.
One of the biggest buffs to the entire Spell MAge archetype was the shrinking spell pool which made every discover card that much better.
If you take that and then add a 2-mana reduction to your entire deck on top you get a burn deck that makes Freeze Mage look fair by comparison.
The fact that they have good draw options is just the icing on the cake, but guess what? Mage has always been good at drawing cards and they'll just keep getting draw cards in the future and then what? Are we just nerfing every draw card for Mage just to curb the complete lunacy that is playing most of your cards for half their cost?
There is no point in playing N'zoth early because he's supposed to be the big win condition. There is also no 1-mana card that synergizes with him in any capacity (at least none that I know of) so that's not a factore either.
All this does is trigger everyone's OCD for no reason.
except at least one spell less will be discounted and also the different between doing nothing on turn 2 and doing nothing on turn 3 is HUGE.
That way both fast and slow decks get more time to set things up so they Mage can't just Spring Water on 4 that easily.
Meanwhile right now all they need to do is just not mulligan for Spring Water anymore because they want to discount it first so it's the exact same as before.
I have no idea why people are so fixated on the idea that 0-mana draw 2 is such a busted effect in Hearthstone when we've seen this effect before (Cutting Class, hello?) and it wasn't nearly as powerful. Meanwhile a permanent Thaurissan to your entire deck for 2-mana (that you can run twice) is somehow not an issue?
Hysteria nerf would have had to happen at some point anyways. Priest and Warlock usually get a lot of small and big boardclears as time goes on and the only way to play around those is by keeping about 2 or 3 medium sized minions around, which is exactly what Hysteria punishes, so this way it allows tempo decks to at least get a foothold. The issue is that they nerfed it way too early because now both classses have extremely limited early game removal and Paladin isn't getting any weaker.
Inquisitor buff is literally just an apology because they f*cked up the initial design. We're not getting any new Corrupt cards and the current pool is dogshit, so there's no way Corrupt Priest will ever be viable anyways (because there is no deck that loses the Clowns that they don't already beat anyways, outside of the mirror).
I didn't even bother to mention the N'zoth buff because it's just so inconsequential. If you ever need to play N'zoth at turn 9 you're probably losing and at 9-mana you still can't combo it with anything relevant.
Deck of Chaos could be interesting if Warlock gets a way to tutor Shadow Spells, but until that happens you can't reliably run a deck full of giant minions that relies on drawing and playing 5-mana do nothing on turn 5.
The funny thing about Paladin is that they are actually very close to being balanced enough (while still being one of the best decks ofc), but Blizzard just keeps failing at addressing the very few specific spells that actually matter.
First Day should just have had the mana increase to gut it completely because it's not a healthy card in any way, at least not in a world where the core set removed just about every terrible 1-drop in existence. Oh My Yogg! needs to be reworked into unplayabilty because it is literally a better version of Counterspell in 9/10 cases and nothing is more frustrating than just losing the game to a 1-mana card that you cannot possibly play around in any capacity. Finally, only Conviction needed to be dealt with and that would easily be fixed by setting it to 2-mana so it's not so goddamn easy to just throw in regularly without losing any steam.
Only 3 cards and the class would be fine for the forseeable future, but they picked just one of them and even managed to fuck that one up.
but that's the point. If the hit Flow immediately (just make it 3-mana, you figured it out for Wild Growth, how is this any different?) they'd have a much better picture of Mage powerlevel as a whole (aka not being forced to decide whether or not making new spells will completely break the class again)
Point is, if Spring Water wasn't the problem then it is still never going to be unnerfed, meaning it got sacrificed for no reason.
The Spring Water change is just so unbelievably short sighted it's actually baffling.
There's is absolutely 0 chance that Flow will not continue to be a problem in the future, either with coming expansions, or just for Wild because of combo shenanigans.
Every single new Mage spell for the next two expansions will have to be designed around the fact that it might cost 2-mana less.
The only reason that Mage is even still playable at this stage is the fact that Spell Mage can just win if they find Flow in their mulligan because they have so much draw, burn and removal that playing most of that in a single turn is enough to scam a win.
What makes it even worse is that Spring Water isn't even that busted outside the Spell MAge deck (which is, again, only carried by FLow to begin with) so they're essentially kneecapping every future Mage deck by nerfing Water instead of nerfing Flow first and seeing where that leads us?
We're never getting an unnerf of Spring Water, even if Flow gets nerfed within the next two weeks.
Also, compensation buff for School, because apparently Secret Paladin wasn't consistently generating Blackjack Stunners enough. There are premium cards for just about any mana slot in Paladin and all they can do is do a half-nerf for one of them.
Nerfing Spring Water is pointless because Incanter's Flow is ten times as busted and will break any future Mage spells until it finally gets destroyed.
All this nerf does is make the Mage deck even more polarizing because now they just lose if they don't find flow on 2, but still autowin if they have it.
Making Hysteria 4-mana kills Kazakus Priest, which is disappointing but necessary I guess, because that card is all sorts of busted (even if it was the only thing able to keep Paladin in check)
Crabrider nerf is good enough I guess. Keeps the intended effect for Rush Warrior while nerfing it for Paladin which is the best outcome.
No idea why they thought First Day of School needed a compensation buff. It would still be run at 1 and now it's probably even better outside of the specific "I need a 1-drop and have nothing else" scenario.
Mankrik nerf is perfectly fine and expected.
All the buffs are just wet farts though.
Shaman will remain unplayable until they actually get some card draw. Lilypad was already a good card. The problem is not actually having a way to consistently activate it because you can'T draw cards. Unbound Elemental will remain unplayable as long as Overload is as pointless of a gimmick as it is.
The core card buffs are literally just what they should have been in the first place and only turn them into baseline vanilla cards that will still not see play.
How the Razorboar buff is supposed to make Demon Hunter any better at all is just confusing to me. They could have just unnerfed Priestess of Fury and give DH an actual gameplan outside of hoping for Green Rag to carry.
Only Whirling Combatant seems like an actually impactful change because it's actually a good control minion and the difference between 2 and 3 attack on a high health minion is usually significant.
[Hearthstone Card (Oh my Yogg) Not Found] remains untouched. I don't think I'm interested in playing a game where I can lose because a 1-mana card just ruins my entire gameplan at random.
Incanter's Flow is still a Dungeon Run treasure that decides games on turn 2.
Hunter is still only allowed to go full aggro, Hero power Mage is genuinely unplayable and Warlock now relies on Tickatus even more because after the Hysteria nerf the only thing they can ever reliable deal with is Priest (who is now also much worse against Paladin).
I think I'm just gonna take a break until the minii-set arrives and by then they'll hopefully figure out which cards actually need to be adressed instead of these band aids.
Second one might be intended due to the whacky order of operations.
Evocations states that you discard all spells at the end of your turn. However, Secret Passage makes it so the spells aren't in your hand at the end of the turn and because Evocation was played before Passage its discard trigger resolves before the cards return (which doesn't work because all the spells are in limbo) and so they return as regular cards. Probably not something that many players are aware of but could easily be a legit strategy to scam value in control matchups.
Normally I would say that there's probably a reason for that, but after getting scammed out of Legend by getting Yogg'd into Shadow Council I can say with definitive certainty: Yes, Yogg was designed with the sole purpose of frustrating players into a violent rage.
For fuck's sake, just remove this broken cards. It's probably responsible for like half of Paladin's success and it doesn't even work properly.
5D mazes and 6 hour trade puzzles.
Are we sure Celestalon isn't just a supervillain in his spare time?
Oh obviously, but in some situations you can't wait to corrupt the thing and just have to jam it for tempo, in which case it has additional value with N'zoth.
Realistically your N'zoth would summon 3 small minions and an Inquisitor, but every once in a while you get an extra 4/3.
I think that's too much commitment.
I think the ideal way is to run Felsteel Executioner for the (sometimes) Elemental and the Flyers and then you essentially get between 3 and 4 minions back from N'zoth, one of which will smash face for 8, which should be enough to close out games.
Only problem I see is that it might be too slow, but then again, we still have 2 more expansions and any tribal deathrattles (or just generally good cards) could make this a viable gameplan
the illidari thing could actually be relevant in the future if Deathrattle Demonhunter gets a few more tribal minions.
You already have Quillboars and Beasts in there. Add an elemental or a Pirate and suddenly things are looking pretty alright as a lategame finisher.
it's weird how some of these buffs feel like downright apologies.
Like, Unbound Elemental, Tidal Surge, Shieldmaiden and Fiendish Circle literally just got adjusted to be at the standard powerlevel of regular cards of the same cost (Circle and Surge being the most egregious offenders). It's not so much buffs as it is fixing what shouuld have been in the first place.
Same goes for Xanesh. Card is still completely pointless in Priest, but at least now it functions like you would expect it to.
if you honestly believe that a single card draw card is the only factor that elevated a meme deck to a tier 1 tournament killer then you're delusional.
One of the biggest buffs to the entire Spell MAge archetype was the shrinking spell pool which made every discover card that much better.
If you take that and then add a 2-mana reduction to your entire deck on top you get a burn deck that makes Freeze Mage look fair by comparison.
The fact that they have good draw options is just the icing on the cake, but guess what? Mage has always been good at drawing cards and they'll just keep getting draw cards in the future and then what? Are we just nerfing every draw card for Mage just to curb the complete lunacy that is playing most of your cards for half their cost?
Just because Spell Mage was a garbage deck for various reasons doesn't mean Flow was ever balanced.
Oh my Yogg! saw 0 play during Darkmoon, are you going to tell me that means it's a perfectly balanced card too?
The N'zoth buff just confuses me to no end.
There is no point in playing N'zoth early because he's supposed to be the big win condition. There is also no 1-mana card that synergizes with him in any capacity (at least none that I know of) so that's not a factore either.
All this does is trigger everyone's OCD for no reason.
I really hope you're right.
Hysteria needed the nerf...just not now of all times.
Now both Priest and Warlock just have to roll over and die to any board above 3 health. in the early game.
except at least one spell less will be discounted and also the different between doing nothing on turn 2 and doing nothing on turn 3 is HUGE.
That way both fast and slow decks get more time to set things up so they Mage can't just Spring Water on 4 that easily.
Meanwhile right now all they need to do is just not mulligan for Spring Water anymore because they want to discount it first so it's the exact same as before.
I have no idea why people are so fixated on the idea that 0-mana draw 2 is such a busted effect in Hearthstone when we've seen this effect before (Cutting Class, hello?) and it wasn't nearly as powerful. Meanwhile a permanent Thaurissan to your entire deck for 2-mana (that you can run twice) is somehow not an issue?
Hysteria nerf would have had to happen at some point anyways. Priest and Warlock usually get a lot of small and big boardclears as time goes on and the only way to play around those is by keeping about 2 or 3 medium sized minions around, which is exactly what Hysteria punishes, so this way it allows tempo decks to at least get a foothold. The issue is that they nerfed it way too early because now both classses have extremely limited early game removal and Paladin isn't getting any weaker.
Inquisitor buff is literally just an apology because they f*cked up the initial design. We're not getting any new Corrupt cards and the current pool is dogshit, so there's no way Corrupt Priest will ever be viable anyways (because there is no deck that loses the Clowns that they don't already beat anyways, outside of the mirror).
I didn't even bother to mention the N'zoth buff because it's just so inconsequential. If you ever need to play N'zoth at turn 9 you're probably losing and at 9-mana you still can't combo it with anything relevant.
Deck of Chaos could be interesting if Warlock gets a way to tutor Shadow Spells, but until that happens you can't reliably run a deck full of giant minions that relies on drawing and playing 5-mana do nothing on turn 5.
The funny thing about Paladin is that they are actually very close to being balanced enough (while still being one of the best decks ofc), but Blizzard just keeps failing at addressing the very few specific spells that actually matter.
First Day should just have had the mana increase to gut it completely because it's not a healthy card in any way, at least not in a world where the core set removed just about every terrible 1-drop in existence. Oh My Yogg! needs to be reworked into unplayabilty because it is literally a better version of Counterspell in 9/10 cases and nothing is more frustrating than just losing the game to a 1-mana card that you cannot possibly play around in any capacity. Finally, only Conviction needed to be dealt with and that would easily be fixed by setting it to 2-mana so it's not so goddamn easy to just throw in regularly without losing any steam.
Only 3 cards and the class would be fine for the forseeable future, but they picked just one of them and even managed to fuck that one up.
but that's the point. If the hit Flow immediately (just make it 3-mana, you figured it out for Wild Growth, how is this any different?) they'd have a much better picture of Mage powerlevel as a whole (aka not being forced to decide whether or not making new spells will completely break the class again)
Point is, if Spring Water wasn't the problem then it is still never going to be unnerfed, meaning it got sacrificed for no reason.
The Spring Water change is just so unbelievably short sighted it's actually baffling.
There's is absolutely 0 chance that Flow will not continue to be a problem in the future, either with coming expansions, or just for Wild because of combo shenanigans.
Every single new Mage spell for the next two expansions will have to be designed around the fact that it might cost 2-mana less.
The only reason that Mage is even still playable at this stage is the fact that Spell Mage can just win if they find Flow in their mulligan because they have so much draw, burn and removal that playing most of that in a single turn is enough to scam a win.
What makes it even worse is that Spring Water isn't even that busted outside the Spell MAge deck (which is, again, only carried by FLow to begin with) so they're essentially kneecapping every future Mage deck by nerfing Water instead of nerfing Flow first and seeing where that leads us?
We're never getting an unnerf of Spring Water, even if Flow gets nerfed within the next two weeks.
Also, compensation buff for School, because apparently Secret Paladin wasn't consistently generating Blackjack Stunners enough. There are premium cards for just about any mana slot in Paladin and all they can do is do a half-nerf for one of them.
Well, this is all sorts of disappointing.
Nerfing Spring Water is pointless because Incanter's Flow is ten times as busted and will break any future Mage spells until it finally gets destroyed.
All this nerf does is make the Mage deck even more polarizing because now they just lose if they don't find flow on 2, but still autowin if they have it.
Making Hysteria 4-mana kills Kazakus Priest, which is disappointing but necessary I guess, because that card is all sorts of busted (even if it was the only thing able to keep Paladin in check)
Crabrider nerf is good enough I guess. Keeps the intended effect for Rush Warrior while nerfing it for Paladin which is the best outcome.
No idea why they thought First Day of School needed a compensation buff. It would still be run at 1 and now it's probably even better outside of the specific "I need a 1-drop and have nothing else" scenario.
Mankrik nerf is perfectly fine and expected.
All the buffs are just wet farts though.
Shaman will remain unplayable until they actually get some card draw. Lilypad was already a good card. The problem is not actually having a way to consistently activate it because you can'T draw cards. Unbound Elemental will remain unplayable as long as Overload is as pointless of a gimmick as it is.
The core card buffs are literally just what they should have been in the first place and only turn them into baseline vanilla cards that will still not see play.
How the Razorboar buff is supposed to make Demon Hunter any better at all is just confusing to me. They could have just unnerfed Priestess of Fury and give DH an actual gameplan outside of hoping for Green Rag to carry.
Only Whirling Combatant seems like an actually impactful change because it's actually a good control minion and the difference between 2 and 3 attack on a high health minion is usually significant.
[Hearthstone Card (Oh my Yogg) Not Found] remains untouched. I don't think I'm interested in playing a game where I can lose because a 1-mana card just ruins my entire gameplan at random.
Incanter's Flow is still a Dungeon Run treasure that decides games on turn 2.
Hunter is still only allowed to go full aggro, Hero power Mage is genuinely unplayable and Warlock now relies on Tickatus even more because after the Hysteria nerf the only thing they can ever reliable deal with is Priest (who is now also much worse against Paladin).
I think I'm just gonna take a break until the minii-set arrives and by then they'll hopefully figure out which cards actually need to be adressed instead of these band aids.
It's only fair. Mage is the only class that can't win by playing Crabrider on 2, so they have Incanter's Flow instead :^)
First one is definitely a bug.
Second one might be intended due to the whacky order of operations.
Evocations states that you discard all spells at the end of your turn. However, Secret Passage makes it so the spells aren't in your hand at the end of the turn and because Evocation was played before Passage its discard trigger resolves before the cards return (which doesn't work because all the spells are in limbo) and so they return as regular cards. Probably not something that many players are aware of but could easily be a legit strategy to scam value in control matchups.
tradition
That one might still be on the table. The current Aggro shell works well enough and if some buffs here and there it could actually become a thing.