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Hearthstone | Posted by | 4 years, 4 months ago
Fan Creations

Combo Harvester - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Combo Harvester

It's time to start bringing those Mercenary innovations over into the main game - starting with those fancy Combos!

  • You must create a regular Hearthstone card which uses the Spell School Combo mechanic from Mercenaries
    • For those unfamiliar, some abilities in Mercenaries have additional effects if an ability of a specific Spell School was used previously that turn - Nature Combo, Fire Combo etc. - and we're looking to see this mechanic translated into regular Hearthstone.
    • For example, a card would have its Fel Combo ability activate if you played a Fel spell earlier that turn.

BloodMefist and anchorm4n have joined forces for this prompt - a particularly potent Combo, I think you'll agree!

As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Dec 20 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sat, Dec 25 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Dec 25 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sun, Dec 26 16:00 EST (GMT -0500)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Dec 26 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Mon, Dec 27 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Combo Harvester

    It's time to start bringing those Mercenary innovations over into the main game - starting with those fancy Combos!

    • You must create a regular Hearthstone card which uses the Spell School Combo mechanic from Mercenaries
      • For those unfamiliar, some abilities in Mercenaries have additional effects if an ability of a specific Spell School was used previously that turn - Nature Combo, Fire Combo etc. - and we're looking to see this mechanic translated into regular Hearthstone.
      • For example, a card would have its Fel Combo ability activate if you played a Fel spell earlier that turn.

    BloodMefist and anchorm4n have joined forces for this prompt - a particularly potent Combo, I think you'll agree!

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Dec 20 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sat, Dec 25 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Dec 25 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sun, Dec 26 16:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Dec 26 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Mon, Dec 27 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

  • I'm throwing my ideas in earlier this week. Fingers crossed, I won't clinch last place again :') Let me know what you think!

    • Quote From Me0203

      You forgot to make them Battlecries :P

      Friendly

  • I'm wondering if I can get away with making a card reliant on an unusual class+spell school combination:

    The implication being that, in an Emerald Nightmare-based expansion, the Druid would receive more Shadow spells. They have Webweave, so it's not completely unprecedented.

    Friendly

    • Heh, it's been awhile, apparently. Edited! Thanks for the catch.

      Regards to your card, while I'm in love with the idea of a future-expansion Shadow Druid, it's difficult to reconcile pure hero damage with Druid. Effects closer to Webweave seem more fitting - maybe effects like poisonous, copying, resurrection, entangling/corrupting friendly/enemy units, cost increases for benefits, etc. Big ole board-fillin' nature-gone-bad stuff.

      • Quote From Me0203

        Heh, it's been awhile, apparently. Edited! Thanks for the catch.

        Regards to your card, while I'm in love with the idea of a future-expansion Shadow Druid, it's difficult to reconcile pure hero damage with Druid. Effects closer to Webweave seem more fitting - maybe effects like poisonous, copying, resurrection, entangling/corrupting friendly/enemy units, cost increases for benefits, etc. Big ole board-fillin' nature-gone-bad stuff.

        Yeah...it mostly came down to "what aura can I fit in the limited space I have?" The Shadow Combo is using two lines on its own, so that didn't leave much. I'll keep tinkerin'; my first concern is whether or not people would accept the Nightmare Shadow-Druid setup.

        Thanks for givin' it a look :)

        Edit: How's this? Still messing around with the card:

        It gives you "infinite value", assuming you continuously spend the Mana to play it. If you can Shadow Combo, you actually gain copies of Nightmare Servant. The flavor is that the Nightmare cannot be truly killed, only contained. Might be garbage without Rush *shrugs*

        Friendly

  • I really like the art and the halo makes it somewhat holy, but let me know if it's too fiery.

  • First 2 ideas. I wanted Equilibrium to also do a little damage or a little healing but there wasn't enough space for that. Anyway, i do feel Kirin Tor Prodigy is better and cooler. Little neat effects that when stacked up after one of those classic mage-plays-15-cards-in-a-turn turns are the cherry on top for a wild display of magic.

  • Some early feedback

    Me0203
    I'm personally not a big fan of simply repeating the battlecry. It's effective, but slightly boring, so I like the new Shadowfin Soulmancer best. It does need to belong to an expansion though, which should probably just be the same as other Soul Fragment cards.

    Shadow Druid
    I think the main issue with unusual combinations is that they're not on an equal playing field. They don't have much to compare them to, so people might be hesitant to give bonus points.

    That being said, your first idea really didn't fit Druid, but your new idea is quite nice. I particularly like how the combo doesn't just duplicate the minion, but its effect as well. It's not something Druid has really done before, but still feels like it fits Druid's identity, which I enjoy. Balance looks good to me.

    BasilAnguis
    I quite like the idea of getting multiple combos, although I find that putting the keyword multiple times on the same card severely limits your options, as Equilibrium proves.

    Equilibrium doesn't have an effect if you play it without the conditions, which I don't think should ever really happen. And its effects are quite boring. Kirin Tor Prodigy is far more interesting, but feels unbalanced. Even though you won't be able to play it on-curve, it can still give a lot of value and should probably be a 3-cost. I also think just drawing a single spell for Arcane would be more balanced.

  • I've had several ideas for this prompt, but none of them is particularly good. To avoid overloading this thread, I'll post the two I like the most.

    Swift Assassin can be played without the Combo to clean small minions or with the combo to take on a big one. Nature spells in Rogue tend to be Poisons, so there's that.

    Archmage's Scribe can potentially gain Spell Damage +3, but in order to do so, you need to play a lot of spells before it, which goes against what you want to do with a Spell Damage card, so you need to plan properly before playing it. The ideal scenario would be to play non-damaging spells like Arcane Intellect or Hot Streak before it. It also has synergy with Sorcerer's Gambit.

    Feedback:

    Me0203
    Welcome to this subforum! It's always nice to see new faces.

    Shadowfin Soulmancer is a bit tricky, since Soul Fragments are a thing from the Year of the Phoenix, before spell schools were introduced. Some people here tend to dislike this sort of inconsistencies, so I'd discard this idea. It's a shame, because it was quite solid otherwise.

    Virulent Voidmancer is a bit on the bland side, but it seems quite balanced.

    Finally, whether you decide to go with one card of another, you should definetly put an expansion watermark. If you have doubts about how to do this, you can ask for help :)

    linkblade91
    I would refrain from using uncommon class and school combinations. They're too hard to evaluate, since we lack context about the expansion they would be in.

    That said, I think both have potential:

    • Nightmare Lord could easily be a Neutral card, since Shadow is the most wide-spread school (Warlock, Priest, DH and Rogue have access to it). If you decide to go with this route, I'd reduce the damage output to 2 and make the card cost 3.
    • Nightmare Servant is very cool and fitting for Druid, somewhat reminiscent of Gibberling. I'd change the spell school to Nature (while making the minion a Treant or something) or to Arcane (and the minion could be an astral animal, like the scout owl Tyrande used in Warcraft 3).

    AeroJulwin
    I really like Protector's Grace. Quite usable even without activating the Holy combo.

    BasilAnguis
    I like both of them, the usage of several schools fits both Mage and Priest.

    I like how Kirin Tor Prodigy's effects are all very fitting of their spell school. I agree with Aerojulwin that it's a bit too strong, especially the Arcane Combo part.

    Equilibrium, while simpler, also has a very flavorful baseline. I appreciate its yin-yang theme, in that the Shadow Combo gives a Holy spell and vice-versa. If you decide to go with it, an easy solution would be to make it a minion. Something like a 3 Mana 3/3 would be balanced, I think.

  • FEED

    Me0203
    Nothing much to say. I prefer warlock's card. We didn't see any murloc dh for now, isn't it? Or even soul fragment murloc dh.

    AeroJulwin
    Sneaky Blessing of Kings. Totally fine and solid card.

    linkblade91
    Summoning another copy and filling your hand with them is not really interesting. Maybe make some permanent buffs instead?

    BasilAnguis
    Both cards is nice, but mage's minion is a little OP. I think its better if it was "Draw 1 card" and "Freeze an enemy". Equilibrium peoblem is that it does nothing by itself - make it a minion instead.

    Wailor
    Both cool, but I'll choose Swift Assassin. He brings some "new" interaction. Spell Damage for mages is here and everywhere already.

  • Hello, folks! I'm baaack!

    Got 2 ideas this week, though I think I like Hail Storm better:

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Me0203: The murloc is a little busted IMO. I like the Voidmancer, but you can probably word it as "Battlecry and Shadow Combo:".

    linkblade91: This only works if that particular expansion has a bunch of Shadow Spells for Druid, which might lose you points. Don't like that it's basically an infinite 3/2, but that might not be that strong? Not sure.

    AeroJulwin: Good card! Not much else to say.

    BasilAnguis: I also had a Mage card with all the Combos in the back of my mind, I like your implementation. Equilibrium is a little odd, since it does nothing without the Combos, but that might be ok.

    Wailor: Damn, both are pretty good! The Scribe might be better, since there's a better chance the Combos actually trigger. It's also kinda anti-synergistic, since you want the Damage BEFORE you cast the spells.

    R: The issue here is that Spell Schools were introduced in FitB, which is the expansion after this card's.

    Staff

  • I'll drop Shadow Druid for now, although I do like the Arcane Owl idea. How about one of these?

    The first one is information + disruption, while the second one keeps the multiplying-Deathrattle synergy to influence decision-making. I wanted it to be only your opponent who suffers, but try fitting the word "opponent" in there and keep it within four lines of text lol D:

    I will drop some feedback tomorrow: going to bed now.

    Friendly

  • Bit late for my own party, but work has been busy for a few weeks now. Here's my idea:

    I'm still undecided if it should be a Rare or an Epic and if it should cost 4 or 5 mana. The 5 Cost version would mean a Flamestrike and a free Fireball when you're at 7 Mana which seemed a bit too mediocre so I went with the 4 Cost version for now. What makes this really hard to balance though is Hot Streak. The most extreme scenario would basically be a Fireball and a free Flamestrike (Hot Streak into Fiery Lessons = 2 Mana) which might be okay since nobody cares about board presence anyway. I'm looking forward to your feedback!

    linkblade91
    I like the owl / wisdom flavor. Cost increase in Druid feels a bit off though. 4 stars for the Battlecry version. I don't like the Deathrattle iteration though, sorry.

    Nirast
    I was considering doing something similar to your second version with my card, but Mage already has too many AOE cards. Going down the Breath of the Infinite road is tempting for this comp, but overall I like your first version more right now, if only because I don't see a connection between a Fire combo and protecting your own minions. Are they building a camp fire to find shelter from the hail? Maybe you could go full Frost and make it a Frost Combo with a damage increase?

    R
    I'm sorry but I don't get the flavor of the first card. If you choose to go with this, there's a typo in "Corrupt" and you'll lose points if you don't add a second card for the corrupted version (which is nearly impossible because of the art). The Fire spell looks more interesting. I like that one.

    Wailor
    Very hard to decide because both are cool. The Rogue card is one of that simple but very cool designs, but the Mage minion has more potential as you've described yourself. My guess is that the Rogue one has a better chance to get high ratings because you know what you can expect from the card at the first glance.

    BasilAnguis
    Both are cool, but I agree that the Priest card is useless without the Combo activator so making it a minion might be a good alternative. That said, the Mage card looks super nice! Already my favorite concept so far, it just needs a little polish - basically what the others said: maybe only draw one card, freeze one enemy minion, or increase the cost.

    AeroJulwin
    Solid card, nothing to critizice here. Well done!

    Me0203
    The Murloc somehow doesn't appeal much to me. The Warlock card is much better, but as the others have already said, repeating the Battlecry isn't the most creative approach. I do like the suggestion to word it "Battlecry and Shadow Combo" though, that might help hiding the repetition a bit and is already established in the game.

  • I had a card I liked, but because Imgur is currently broken, I can't post it. It is on the Discord though.

    EDIT: Got it through!

    Nonetheless, it's time for me to do my part and post my feedback.

    Me0203

    Shadowfin Soulmancer has one pretty huge problem: Chronological inconsistency. You have a card that uses Soul Fragments, a mechanic from a year before spell schools existed, and combining that with spell schools. There's simply no place in the game's life that this card could be placed. It can't be placed in Year of the Phoenix because spell schools didn't exist yet. It can't be placed before then because neither Demon Hunter nor Soul Fragments existed yet. And it can't be placed after because then you'll have a card that is unusable in Standard because there's no Soul Fragment cards in the format.

    Virulent Voidmaster is definitely better. It's easier to use and it doesn't have the same chronological problem that Shadowfin Soulmancer does.

    Linkblade91
    I definitely think going with Arcane Owl (specifically the first version) is the better way to go over Nightmare Lord or Nightmare Servant. I fully understand what you're trying to do with the other two cards, but it'll be a very hard sell for the competition.

    BasilAnguis

    Kirin Tor Prodigy is cool, although the discrepancy in power on each of the effects is a little bit off-putting. The Fire Combo effect is just blatantly much weaker than the other two.

    Equilibrium has really cool flavor, but unfortunately that flavor will overlap with BloodMefist's card from the last competition. It also doesn't do anything without the Combo effects.

    AeroJulwin
    Gonna agree with everyone else and say that I like this card. It's simple and it feels like a card that Blizzard would print. I can see it doing pretty well.

    Wailor

    "but none of them is particularly good"

    I disagree. I like both of these cards. I say Swift Assassin is a little bit better since it's more to-the-point on how you're supposed to use it and it's quite flavorful, but both of them are solid cards.

    R
    If I'm reading this right, this appears to deal 4 damage to one minion and 8 damage to adjacent minions. And that seems extremely powerful to me.

    Nirast
    I definitely prefer Hail Storm. It seems like it does what you want it to do more of the time and it seems a bit weird for hail to heal you.

    Anchorm4n

    It seems fine. Hot Streak is going to make any Fire spell broken, and that's not really avoidable so it's best to not worry about that.

    I must ask though. Is it intended to not have a spell school? If that's the case, then balance is a complete non-issue and the card is 100% fine as is.

    Friendly Staff

  • Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Demonxz95 - I can't stand Vanish, so you might lose a point from me there, but I also don't play many low-cost minions so it wouldn't bother me as much in practice.

    anchorm4n - I care about board presence…a lot :( All of my decks seek to hit the board, so this could be pretty painful in my own experience. What about something like "Fire Combo: The next one you play this turn costs (1)." That way the other spell goes back to full cost; that would allow you to readjust the base spell more favorably, and mitigate a crazy Hot Streak turn.

    Nirast - I'll be honest: I don't like either one. Healing Hail is an okay play on Healing Rain, but the flavor is very weird (you're being pelted with ice-rocks; why is it healing you?). Hail Storm is just Blizzard with extra steps. I'm not sure if either of them would find a home somewhere.

    R - A reverse-Meteor that can also go face if you want it to? That sounds super good. I personally don't feel like Fire Mage needs more face-damage spells: it needs to be encouraged to actually use its board for once.

    Wailor - Swift Assassin being connected to Poisons and thus gaining Poisonous is perfect flavor, so I would choose that one. The Scribe is wonky and redundant when we already have the simple-and-clean Lab Partner.

    BasilAnguis - I like the version you posted in Discord, with the "Frost Combo: Gain 5 Armor." A nice connection to Ice Barrier, the bold text flows nicely, and you probably don't need the Prodigy to Freeze someone because you just played a Frost spell (and thus did it already).

    AeroJulwin - It's okay. It's a little better than Blessing of Kings, but I don't know if it is worth running in one's deck.

    Me0203 - The Soulmancer is naturally comboed with Soul Shear, but that's kind of it. The DH doesn't have many worthwhile Shadow spells; not like the Warlock does. While I like Soul Fragments more, the Voidmancer might be more viable overall.

    Friendly

  • Thanks, everyone. I'll probably submit Swift Assassin, since it has had a better reception. I also like it better (even if the art from the other card is much cooler)

    More feedback:

    R
    I like Wild Flame, but I don't think adjacent minions need to take double damage. Just 4 damage to 3 minions seems quite strong for 4.

    I'd also change the name since the current one is too similar to Wildfire

    Nirast
    I agree Hail Storm is your better card. The Fire Combo part is a nice touch. My main issue is that the artwork isn't very good.

    linkblade91
    I really like the version that reveals a card. I could see it winning the comp.

    My main issue is that it probably shouldn't be a Beast, since Astral Tiger isn't.

    anchorm4n
    Honestly, the cost reduction doesn't worry me as much as the fact that you can generate extra Fireballs with this card. With this two cards plus the regular Fireballs you can put in your deck, that's 24 face damage.

    Demonxz95
    The fact that it only targets cheap minions is a bit weird, but I guess it's necessary so that the card isn't broken. Other than that, seems fine.

  • Feedback

    Wailer
    I see you've already decided, but I'll let you know I'm also a fan of Swift Assassin.

    R
    Being able to hit the hero seems fine to me, since it would just be an underpowered Fireball.

    I'm a big fan of the Combo, but I do feel like 8 damage is a tad much. 6 would probably be fine. I know it doesn't double +Spell Damage that way, but that seems less important on cards that already deal quite some damage.

    I also don't like how the effect is phrased. 'Deals' should probably be 'Deal' and the 'double damage' not specifically referring to the 4 damage feels weird to me, although I won't deduct for it.

    Nirast
    Healing Hail feels chaotic and doesn't really make sense.

    Hail Storm is nice. The Combo makes sense to me and fits the art. But would maybe be fine as a 4-cost.

    linkblade91
    I like the second version of Scouting Owl better, since revealing doesn't really fit Druid's identity. But an unspecified cost increase feels weird, so I would probably make it target your opponent's next card and remove the enter in the middle.

    anchorm4n
    It should probably have a school and feels a little strong. You should probably reduce the cost reduction.

    Right now you'll always want to wait keep it until you want to use Flamestrike or have Lethal, so you might consider reducing the costs permanently. A 2 or 3 Mana reduction would work well because you get two powerful spells in any case, but you can also get your Mana back.

    Demonxc95
    Seems balanced considering you need a Shadow spell + 3 Mana to get the effect, so you don't have a crazy amount of Mana to spend on minions. It's also less annoying due to the cost limit, but could end up helping your opponent that way. Overall a nice card, but it could be fine just returning your own minions, since that's what it already focuses on.

  • Less than 12 hours to go! Don't forget to submit between what hopefully are great holidays for all of you :) 

  • I hope everyone here has had (or is having, depending on timezones) a pleasant Christmas and of course good luck to the other finalists.

  • Congrats, Mefist! Very cool card.

    (Btw, I have lost count of the times I've been the runner up this season XD)

  • Congratulations to BloodMefist for the victory (and it being their own comp to boot!) :D

    Friendly

  • Congrats to BloodMefist!