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Hearthstone | Posted by | 3 years, 1 month ago
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Dies To Removal - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Dies To Removal

Everyone dies eventually; some sooner than others.

  • You must design a spell that can damage, destroy, or disappear a minion or minions.
    • Transform does not count: the intent is to remove the minion(s) from the board completely.

Wailor is on the hunt, bringing out the big guns, holy blasts, volcanoes, and whatever else is necessary to eliminate the enemy.

As always, we can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Mar 20 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Mar 25 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Mar 25 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Mar 26 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Mar 26 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Mar 27 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Dies To Removal

    Everyone dies eventually; some sooner than others.

    • You must design a spell that can damage, destroy, or disappear a minion or minions.
      • Transform does not count: the intent is to remove the minion(s) from the board completely.

    Wailor is on the hunt, bringing out the big guns, holy blasts, volcanoes, and whatever else is necessary to eliminate the enemy.

    As always, we can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Mar 20 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Mar 25 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Mar 25 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Mar 26 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Mar 26 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Mar 27 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

    Friendly Staff

  • This is my idea, kinda based on Wailor's Gunslinger flavor from the comp before:

    Example: Let's say your opponent has 4 minions; their board would look like this:

    Minion A, Minion B, Opponent, Minion C, Minion D

    You cast Fan the Hammer on Minion C. Going clockwise from the first target, it deals 1 damage to C, 2 to Minion D, 3 to Minion A, 4 to Minion B, and 5 to their face. If they all manage to die, great; that's the ideal scenario, where you can shoot a couple minions dead while maximizing the face damage. But you have to pick your initial target wisely, or else you're just pinging people and not getting kills. Timing is everything, as well, since the spell gets better the wider their board is; Fan the Hammer is...not so great when the board is tiny.

    Let me know if the cost/damage ratio is good, and also if the text needs to be reworded. I think it's right based on how I intended it, but if you can do better I'm all ears :)

    Friendly

  • I didn't end up using the keyword Transmute in the last comp, so here's a card with the same name (and also another one).

    Jokes aside, Transmute is based on the ultimate ability of WC3's Alchemist, which turned an enemy unit into gold. There's not much to explain here, as it's pretty straightforward.

    Roar of Time is a hard AoE removal that prevents you from building your board afterwards. I made a similar card in the past that only removed one minion, but I think the drawback is more meaningful for an AoE.

    Let me know which card you prefer and whether the Cost is appropriate (I thought about reducing the Cost of both by 1 Mana).

    EDIT: I finally made Transmute 2 Mana (down from 3).

  • It's... really difficult to come up with anything you're satisfied with when the prompts are so broad.

    Which is not a bad thing. It's just a challenge. Here's my only card for the competition I have.

    Spectacular Entrance basically highlights all the special effects and lights that the audience is blasted with as soon as the performer comes on stage.

    Friendly Staff

  • Super-duper-early, "I haven't even left the page yet"-level feedback:

    @Wailor - I think Transmute could cost 2. Giving your opponent a Coin is not nothin', and right now it basically equates to the bare minimum of Assassinate (the modern 4-Mana version, I mean).

    @Demon - I assume it's to make the text visually-pleasing, but dealing damage usually comes before drawing cards, based on the regular order of operations. It could technically matter if there was some "If you have 6+ cards in hand, gain Spell Damage +2" aura or whatever, but 99.5% of the time you deal the damage first.

    Friendly

  • Delayed removal in the form of a lethal toxin. you play it and it silences the minion, choking them. On your next turn it goes dormant, paralyzing them. On your second turn it dies. It is more expensive than Corruption because it does something immediately as you play it (instant silence) and also occupies one board space for the opponent for a turn. Since Silence is 0 mana and Corruption 1, 2 mana for this feels appropriate.

    Also i'm a little salty someone won with a submission very similar to mine and they never used the discussion thread, but i also came very late so i'll accept my loss.

  • Quick idea for DK, but gosh am I just bad at AI art or what?

  • Early feedback, will continue to update as they come in.

    linkblade91

    I like this card for what it does; however, for a hearthstone card, until you see it get played, it's gonna be really hard to know what the card does at a base level. That being said, I think this is probably too cheap at 3 mana. Yes, if you're not in the right board state, this does way less damage, but if they have 2 minions, this is 6 damage (3 probably to face), if they have 3 minions, this is 10 damage (4 to face); the tradeoff of needing to be in the right situation to use it doesn't feel so bad when it's scaling so insanely well. TL;DR, I like it, but it could definitely benefit from some tweaks to cost and wording (although if it costs more than 4, it's probably not as good of a removal tool as something like mage's old Rolling Fireball). And, at the end of the day, if it's too hard to come up with a way to make this hit minions AND face, it might just be better to have it go in a circle with minions only, just to shorten the wording.

    wailor

    I like transmute a lot, very flavorful and efficient. I also like Roar of Time, too. I first thought it might be too good, but the more I think about it, I think it just has a high skill ceiling to use correctly. Either way, I think they both are great options.

    Demonxz95

    This is interesting for a mage card; Kind of a mini Ultimate Infestation like card. I don't exactly know which kinds of deck would be looking to actually run it, outside of maybe Questline Mage from stormwind who wants both the damage part to interact with the board and the card draw. I think it might be a little UNDER-whelming if anything, my questions about which decks would run this mainly stem from the fact that paying 6 mana to deal 3 damage and draw 3 cards and summon a mediocre minion feels like it might be a little too passive (I can't imagine saying that about a card that does so much, but Cornelius Roame never saw any play). 

    BasilAnguis

    Silence really isn't something Hunter has had in their wheelhouse ever, outside of the odd neutral beast that did it. The dormancy thing might be interesting to kind of lock out a board slot, but not really relevant in a deck as fast as most Hunter decks. At the end of the day, I think most hunters move fast enough that they probably would leave this card behind and just hit it for direct damage instead.

    Neoguli

    This card is worded a little confusingly. Does the destroy them "all" mean it destroys all frozen minions, or all minions? If it's all minions, this is definitely gross, as a four mana board wipe. If it's just frozen ones, then this would probably be okay if it didn't have twinspell. 4 mana destroy TWO targeted enemy minions is still insanely good. Frost DK has other ways to freeze minions, so I think the card as printed without twinspell is good enough that it would see play.

    *SIDENOTE - what AI did you use for the art? With some tweaking, I could see it looking really nice.

     

    • @Dolphinslayer - Playground AI via Stable Diffusion 1.5. Also it's just Frozen minions that get destroyed, not every single one.

  • Feedback:

    linkblade91
    It's a very cool card, but also very hard to balance. I think 3 Mana is appropriate, but it's one of those cards that would probably get nerfed or buffed one month after its release, as it's very hard to tell how good it is.

    Demonxz95
    I like the card, but it's hard to tell how balanced it is. As Neoguli said, it kinda feels a bit weak in modern HS, but making it 5 Mana might be too much, especially for Arena.

    BasilAnguis
    I'd probably drop the Dormant, as it's pretty pointless. I mean, the minion is gonna die anyways, so I'djust make it a Silence + Corruption.

    Besides this, I think it could easily be 1 Mana. Corruption has never been good, so a slight buff won't break the card.

    Neoguli
    I think the card is balanced enough, as it requires you to commit to Frost pretty hard.

    What I would probably change is the art; I'd recommend just using a regular artwork instead of an AI generated one.

    Finally, I'm not sure if everyone will respond well to your use of Twinspell. I personally don't mind it, as we've just seen how Reborn and Tradeable have become evergreen, but I just wanted to warn you.

  • new Serpent Sting variation and 2 new cards. Now the Sting is an actual slow poison slowly eating away at the minion. EXTINCTION is an old idea i still love and laugh when i think about it. Crazy ass warlock calling down a meteor over the entire board. And Fresh ingredients, well, don't think it's very creative but i wanted to have a third idea.

    linkblade91

    I think for just 3 mana this is insane removal. Compare to Shellshot. Also, from just the card alone i did not realise it jumps back to the left most minion once it reaches the right most. Thought it just stops like Rolling Fireball.

    wailor

    Transmute is super cool, yet i think 2 mana and just common quality is too low. 3 mana and at least rare or even epic should be better i think. Roar of Time's "bad effect" is barely noticeable as at 6 mana very rarely you can even do something else that turn.

    Demonxz95

    Seems fine balance wise, in the end you'd only really use it for card draw with the added bonus of maybe removal and a small body. i'm personally not a fan of all the Infestation variants but card seems good enough.

    Neoguli

    For ethical reasons i strongly advise you to stay away from AI art. Not the place for such a discussion but in short, it's stealing from actual artists without their consent. As for the card itself, i'm not a purist to timelines so twinspell in DK works fine for me. What i don't like is the fact it's OP. Combine this with Frostwyrm's Fury or any other multiple freeze effects DK might receive and it's basically a 2 mana destroy all/multiple enemy minions. You probably compared this with Shattering Blast, but the thing is that card requires others to do anything. This alone is just a plain 4 mana destroy 2 enemy minions but it can be a 2 use 1 mana less Shattering Blast when combined with other freeze effects.

  • I really did not think that the reveal season would halt the competition this much, but here we are.

    Linkblade91
    This is certainly a bold idea, and I like it. It might need to be 4 mana (looking at Shellshot), but I appreciate how fearless you are by posting the card at all.

    Wailor

    Transmute is a good card, but because it's Rogue and they always get taxed on all their spells, it needs to be 3 mana.

    Roar of Time almost feels like a card that I would make. I like the effect, but I'm not sure how you'd play it to take advantage of your extra mana since you mostly want to play a board clear and a minion which you can't really do here.

    BasilAnguis

    I do prefer this version of Serpent Sting over the other one, but it's still too weak to be played. Damage over time on minions is not really something that comes up because minions generally don't last long enough for it. Blood Boil for example, is mostly just played as a Consecration with Lifesteal that sometimes nets you extra damage on one minion.

    EXTINCTION is amusing even though the title really shouldn't be capitalized. Warlock sometimes has the ability to heal pretty well, which is slightly concerning.

    "Fresh" Ingredients is probably my favorite card on yours.

    Neoguli

    I'm imagining this with Frostwyrm's Fury. I don't want to imagine this with Frostwyrm's Fury.

    Beyond that, it read as if having a single Frozen minions and then Freezing a second one with this will trigger the board clear effect. That may not have been intended, but that's definitely a no for me. Basically just 4 mana to destroy 2 minions at that point.

    I would also suggest getting different artwork. Discussion of how morally in/correct it is aside, the art itself isn't really good. I realize this isn't really your fault since it's computer-generated, but I would still suggest finding new art if possible.

    Friendly Staff

  • How's this for an updated Fan the Hammer? Costs 4 now, and the wording is closer to Shellshot to get across how it works. It still rotates through all enemies; it does not stop on the right-most enemy (unless you started at the left-most).

    If it's fundamentally flawed, I'll post something else. I will say, though, that Shellshot can hit a target multiple times, potentially becoming a slightly-cheaper Fireball if there's only one enemy minion. Fan the Hammer cannot do that, so they're not that identical. It's like a reverse Shellshot mixed with lining up a Defile...that also hits face lol. On the subject of face damage, restricting it to enemy minions takes up more text-space, not less, 'cause I'd have to fit the word "minion" in there twice. That would be a challenge :/

    Additional Feedback:

    Neoguli

    I agree with the others about the nature of a 4-Mana destroy-two-minions "combo" that really only requires one card. I think it's a neat direction to go, but the card is just too cheap for that kind of power, double-Frost rune or not.

    BasilAnguis

    Careful with Serpent Sting: as it reads now it technically would not count. I know it's kinda nit-picky but "loses 1 Attack and Health" is not damage, nor an actual destroy effect. Extinction is fun, but Fresh Ingredients is the best card of the three in my opinion. Concoctions were/are popular tokens to play around with; I think you can net a decent score.

    Friendly

  • Just in case I don't go with Fan the Hammer, I made a backup; I present to you: Living Flame!

    Kill a minion so that it might be reborn like the phoenix! Feeding Time was garbage, Flanking Strike was quite good, but they're both old, so I'm trying to find an acceptable cost/damage ratio for this one, as well. There's also Arcane Overflow to consider. Rush makes for good flavor, but if that's too strong Taunt might be more balanced. What do you think?

    Friendly

  • I really couldn't think of anything on my own, so here's 3 random custom expansion cards that I chose with no real system. Maybe one of these will jump out at you.

    Friendly Staff

  •  

    This was my first thought for the submission. As a side note, the way I think this would work, obviously, is the minion would take damage equal to your total attack after hitting you, but I'm not 100% positive on that, so if it doesn't work, then I obviously would do something else. 

    • Quote From Dolphinslayer

      As a side note, the way I think this would work, obviously, is the minion would take damage equal to your total attack after hitting you, but I'm not 100% positive on that, so if it doesn't work, then I obviously would do something else. 

      I'm inclined to say it does not count in its current form, because the hero is the one doing the damage with the counterattack, and not the spell. Maybe nit-picky, but we want the spell to be the one that inflicts damage/destroys/disappears.

      Friendly

  • Transmute is super cool, yet i think 2 mana and just common quality is too low. 3 mana and at least rare or even epic should be better i think. Roar of Time's "bad effect" is barely noticeable as at 6 mana very rarely you can even do something else that turn.

    Thanks for your feedback, Basil! I'll probably submit Transmute, but still thinking on whether the card should be 2 or 3 Mana, which people seems to be divided on.

    However, I also wanted to comment on your feedback the rarity, because I'm not sure what it should represent. As I understand it, cards should have high rarity when they're complicated or when their effect is very synergistic/build-around. However, many people (like you) also think it's a matter of power, but I'm not really sure.

    I don't know if this is the best place to talk about this (maybe a dedicated thread would work better?), but it's a question that has been in my head for some time.

    Anyways, more feedback:

    BasilAnguis
    "Fresh" Ingredients seems to be the preferred option, so I'd recommend going with it. I'd probably slap a Nature tag on it, though, as it seems to imply the minion is attacked with poison.

    I also wanted to say that I really enjoy EXTINCTION, it's a very funny card :)

    linkblade91
    I like the new version of Fan the Hammer, it's more polished than the original, even if the crammed text isn't great. Still, one of my favorite cards of the thread.

    Living Flame is also cool, but I prefer the other card.

    Demonxz95
    I'll list your cards from most favorite to least (although I'm pretty divided between the first two options).
    • Spectacular Entrance: I've grown to appreaciate this card. At first, I didn't realised how well all three effects fit into Mage, and it has aged very well since DJ Manastorm was revealed, as it's a relatively big spell and leans a lot into the early-2010s DJ vibe Mage seems to be going for.
    • Volcanic Cataclysm: Very creative and flavorful card. Maybe the effect is a bit outlandish, but it's part of the appeal, IMO.
    • Fireblade Spin: Solid card, but I prefer the other two.
    • Crystal Blast: Not a bad card, but I find it a bit boring.

    Dolphinslayer
    I'd say it doesn't count, but a Gain Attack + Savagery effect would be more or less the same thing and would definetly count. The name should definetly change, though.

  • Pretty simple super cheap but comes at a big cost, though Paladin has good ways of healing and mitigating damage.

  • Here is your 24-hour reminder. You have that much time left to submit.

    Gear5PhoenixMan

    Nope. Don't do this.

    Paladin is not a class that has any access to hard removal (except for Enter the Coliseum), so giving them a Twisting Nether is very out of line. It's also a 1 mana Twisting Nether at that too. Granted, 10 is a fairly steep Health cost to play, but as you noted, Paladin has good ways to heal and with enough healing in one rotation, they will be able to get by just fine. I would definitely rethink this card over if I were you. As a minor extra note, it also uses the same artwork as Desperate Stand, so you should definitely find new artwork if you want to keep going with this card.

    I see that you're new to the site, and I realize that this might've been a rather harsh introduction to our hobby, but that's only because we're passionate about quality card design and want to see people get better at it.

    Friendly Staff

  • Good luck to everyone in the voting!

    Friendly

  • Congrats to Wailor! The race for the finish is heating up :D

    Friendly

  • Congrats Wailor! You're kicking ass.

    Friendly Staff

  • Thanks, everyone!

    It's pretty wild that it almost took a miracle for me to reach the finals (one person was DQd; if they hadn't, I would've been out) and then ended up winning. The votes of these comps are something else 🥴

  • Congrats to Wailor!