Blizzard has posted a list of frequently asked questions for the update hitting next week titled "Rise of the Mechs". The update brings 18 card buffs to the game, a new mechanical card SN1P-SN4P, and a nerf to Reckless Experimenter.
- Card buffs are not eligible for dust refunds.
- The token from Extra Arms, [Hearthstone Card (More Arms) Not Found], will also cost 2 mana.
- They like the idea of buffing sets. No solid commitments yet on other buffs.
- Warrior has no nerfs because Blizzard would like to see how the meta shifts naturally.
- Card buffs were selected based on how fun or interesting the cards would be.
Quote From Dylan Bates Hey, everyone!
Since we announced the Rise of the Mech update (and all of the card buffs coming along with it) we’ve seen several questions repeatedly pop up in community discussions. We’ve gathered some answers from the Hearthstone development team here to hopefully clear up some confusion and provide more clarity on the execution and philosophy behind these changes.
- Will there be dust refunds for buffed cards?
- Philosophically, cards that we feel we’ve improved won’t be eligible for refunds.
- Is Extra Arms cost reduced for the additional copy as well?
- More Arms will also cost 2 mana.
- Will any other sets be buffed in the future?
- We will be watching closely how this round of buffs goes. We like the idea of doing this kind of thing in the future, but can’t commit to anything solid quite yet.
- It currently feels like most if not all Rogue decks are built around Preparation due to how Rogue spells have synergy with it. What was the thought process behind not nerfing Prep earlier? Doing so now feels like Rogue is effectively gutted.
- Prep fits exactly what we think the Rogue kit should be about, just at a power level that makes it feel like it should be included in all possible Rogue archetypes. It’s one of the cards we find ourselves designing around the most because it makes it difficult to make reasonably powerful Rogue spells in the circumstance where they aren’t being used with Prep.
- When we have a change in mind to a Basic or Classic card we would rather make that change at a time a whole new suite of cards are coming into the game or when the class we’re changing can withstand a power level decrease and still have powerful archetypes.
- Why no Warrior nerfs?
- Warrior has enough matchups with classes like Hunter and Mage that we thought would allow the meta to shift on its own if something like Control Warrior became the new most popular archetype. Of course, we will monitor player perception and data on a daily basis and will continue to evaluate if any more changes become necessary.
- How did you select the cards from each class to be buffed?
- We chose cards based on how fun or interesting we feel they are to play in relation to how much they are currently being utilized. In this case, the cards that were selected are part of the Rise of the Mechs event, which is specific to The Boomsday Project set. There were many cards that were played less than the cards we chose, but these are the ones that we believed led to the most fun experiences without making decks that are already very powerful even better.
- How long have you been thinking about / working on these buffs?
- We’ve been thinking about them for a while! Generally, the goal with past events and this event are the same. We want to try different ways to make the game feel fresh beyond the first month or two of a new expansion release. Buffing cards is one way to do that. Feedback has been very positive so far so we’re looking forward to seeing how the changes shake out when the patch is live.
Comments
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Won't the infinite SN1P-SN4P combo still be possible with Reckless Experimenter and a Mechwarper on turn 7?
Yes, but it delays it by two turns and adds a combo piece, so it becomes significantly harder to pull off. In particular getting a mech to stick into turn 7 will be harder, since AoE like Flamestrike can wipe out Coppertail Imposter.
Infinite damage isn't a problem by itself, for example Quest Mage can throw infinite fireballs. It only becomes a problem if it's too easy to pull off.
They've mentioned they'll be keeping an eye on various interactions with Mechwarper and SN1P-SN4P in Wild. I believe Summoning Portal allows the same interaction as well, as does any method of getting out three Mechwarpers.
I don't know enough about the average powerlevel of Wild to know if we should be concerned about it, but I do trust them to change it if it needs it... eventually, anway =P
Technically it will be but that's wild. And not only many classes can deal will the mech you would magnetize by that point, but in wild you'll be lucky if they haven't used their own OP combos to kill you instead.
dust refund was ridiculous but a crafting discount could have been great
How long have you been thinking about / working on these buffs?
LMAO!
I don't agree with the fact that the buffs aren't eligible for dust refunds. The text under the flavor text of a recently nerfed card always was "This card was recently modified, so its Disenchant value has been adjusted.".
Modify means that something is changed in any way. It doesn't matter if the product becomes worse or better. It still is modified.
You have to consider that a mana decrease can also be seen as a nerf, because they can play a huge role in deck building (especially for odd/even decks). You suddenly can't play Glowstone Technichian in even decks anymore because he costs 5 mana now. Or Dr. Morrigan can't be pulled out of the deck by Silver Vanguard becauses she doesn't cost 8 mana anymore.
A nerf can be considered as a buff in rare cases too, for example the mana cost increase of molten giant back then (from 20 to 25) which led to Holy Wrath deal 25 damage instead of 20. Another really good example is the nerf of Ironbeak Owl a couple of years ago (from 2 to 3) which made this card become a useful silence card for odd decks because Spell Breaker isn't available. Without the nerf odd decks wouldn't have a single neutral silence minion at all.
Of course this logic is difficult to use on stat buffs, f.e. Thunderhead and Beryllium Nullifier, but I still think that my point is justified.
In my opinion these examples perfectly show that buffs and nerfs deserve to get the same treatment.
So either Blizzard changes the text for more accuracy (for example, "weakened" instead of "modified") to show that only these kind of nerfs will be dust refunded or makes buffs eligible for dust refunds like they "promise" according to their sentence under the flavor text.
So, what do you think?
I believe one of the reasons we didnt see much of nerfs and balance fixes is dust refund. Developers might know the way to fix the game but management will never allow them to nerf too much high rarity cards. Since they dont have to dust refund buffed cards we can hope for a lot of buffs. I mean A LOT, they are not limited with economy issues (unless of course they buff smth so much they have to nerf it after). So it kinda untie hands of developers. At least I want to believe it
I think it would be nice to get free dust, however I don't think we are owed the dust. Blizzard's flavor text doesn't promise dust refunds for all modified cards; it only explains that a specific card has been selected for full dust refund as a result of a modification to the card. It's up the Blizzard to make a judgment call on what merits a refund. Your example makes a decent case for the buffs triggering a refund. However, when any card is buffed, nerfed, or moved to the hall of fame it affects the utility of many other cards. Nerfing Raiding Party and Preparation lowered the utility of cards like Waggle Pick and Dread Corsair. Should we get dust refunds for cards affected by nerfs that aren't nerfed? Buffs add value to cards, nerfs take away value. That's why they refund dust with nerfs, but don't with buffs. It stinks for players who previously dusted the soon to be buffed cards, but dusting is always a risk. Even seemingly worthless legendary cards like Duskfallen Aviana could suddenly have value when a new set of cards is released.
They want you to paly more of those cards, not to erase them man!
Why would you want to disenchant a buffed card anyway, and why would you get full dust from it? They should get discoun5 on crafting if anything (at least for players who disenchanted them earlier or something)
Man People just take the whole Hand, when they are given the little finger. Just be glad they are changing und freshening up the game so frequently atm
I do fundamentally agree with this argument. I believe they could conceivably apply it selectively, to cases specifically like the ones above, but that would require them to recognize which buffs also have nerf qualities in some cases, and it would be easier to apply across the board.
I am also curious, if a buffed card later has to be nerfed back to its original state, are they going to use the argument that no value was lost from the original state to avoid refunding dust? I suppose that question can wait for the bridge to be crossed to get burned, but I would hate to see that precedent as much as I dislike them not even considering offering dust for buffs (at least the ones which have nerf qualities, as described above).
Seems like mana cost changes of any kind should pretty universally be treated like nerfs. I could see why attack/health buffs alone might never be. I would prefer an approach like that over one where they change the language to cover this oversight, as that really does not address the issue described above at all, just 'clarifies' why they might ignore it entirely.
All that said, I would not want to overly limit their design space for buffs, either. Would suck if they chose not to make mana cost buffs out of fear of paying too much dust out.
Although I wouldn't complain for getting extra dust, I don't think it's fair to actually expect it. First of all the modified thing you mention is because for over 4 years now, Blizzard's philosophy has been we nerf the OP cards and we don't buff anything, since if we like anything buffed we could simply release a stronger version later as a new card (see ice rager, evil heckler etc.). Buffs is something many players look favorably to, so I am not a fan of essentially blackmailing dust over the wording they had chosen to use when buffing cards wasn't even on their radar.
Moral issues aside, I also think it would be better for Blizzard's goals to not give full dust back. They said that the reason that they picked those cards to buff was that these were the ones that could deliver the most fun experiences. However when a card is disenchantable for its full dust value, the course of action that makes the most economical sense is to disenchant all your copies for full dust value and if you really want them back then you can craft them back for essentially no cost. So more people would disenchant the cards leaving fewer people to experiment with them which would partially defeat the purpose of the buffs themselves.
I'm a bit worried about this new buffs trend, expecially for F2P players. Trash tier cards are a solid mine of dust for them and now they'll struggle if keep or disenchant bad epics and legendaries because they may get buffed someday and become viable.
At last they could have given the refound treatment also to the buffed cards, but it seems like they'll not in the end. And that's also sad.
The full dust value principle is: "You crafted this card because it was strong and you wanted to build a deck around it, but now we nerfed it, so here you go, you can disenchant them for full price". Why would they give refund treatment to buffed cards? "You disenchanted these cards because they were bad, but now we buffed them, so now you can disenchant them again...?"
About the F2P player. I am one of those, and I'm glad they're doing this; it allows for more decks to be decent, and opens up a lot of design space. This is something that I've learnt since I started playing the game - back in Beta - that is don't disenchant legendaries or epic unless you really don't like their effect or are a part of a class that you don't care about playing. You'll never gain anything by disenchanting a legendary for 400 dust, especially nowadays, when once you have a legendary you'll never open it in a pack again. Hell, I still have Duskfallen Aviana in my collection, and that card is utter garbage.
It's the usual game of resource management; you choose whether it's worth it or not. But a game with more playable cards make for a more diverse game. Not doing so because players will have to be more cautious about their resource management isn't a good enough reason
Does someone know if the given legendary will be disenchantable?
As a promo card, it will not be disenchantable. The golden version will be classified in your collection as "uncraftable," which means it also cannot be dusted.
(The reasoning is that they wouldn't want you to dust something you can never get back if you change your mind.)