You're correct that a free to play game likely needs to incentivize some spending, and the mercenary coins certainly aren't as bad as some of the other mobile stuff. I'm personally happy that there's no "energy" requirement to play the game.
Really it'll be a personal opinion whether the rate of coin acquisition is fast enough. I watched some of Kripparian's videos of playing the mode. He was intentionally grinding for Cariel Roame and Milhouse Manastorm and nearly had them at max level. But he was only about half-way, maybe less for leveling abilities and equipment. Most of the abilities don't improve based on the Merc's level, only the ability's level. We don't know yet exactly how this will go, but I think grinding for Merc coins is going to take longer than we may think.
It was mentioned in the reveal video (but no prices were given), and free players latched on and blew it way out of proportion because they incorrectly assumed none of it would be free.
There are 51 mercs in the game. You can have six in your party. Assuming a full collection, that leaves 45 mercs not gaining XP at any given moment even while you are actively playing the game.
The Training Hall may not be useful to everyone, but people with large collections will be happy to have it -- not because it lets them "skip the game," but because there is a legitimate need to get untrained mercs up to speed quickly when you want to test out different comps.
I am too. Almost the entire team at Second Dinner has card game backgrounds which makes me believe it has to be in that genre. My expectations is that they're going to do something wild to shake things up since it is realistically the only way they're going to break into the market. Using Marvel IP certainly helps push things along, but if your card game doesn't bring new and exciting stuff to the table, it might be dead on arrival.
I don't entirely disagree you, my main point it that a system that allows you to skip boring parts of the game should be considered a red flag due to the large number of games that abuse such systems to try to get more money from their players. Even in this case, the developers are asking for pseudo money (gold) to give us this option rather than tying it to something like having one merc reach maximum level.
Personally, I'll be enjoying the slow grind in PVE, so I've got no skin in the game. I just don't like psychologically manipulative stuff in games.
If Blizzard wanted to satisfy PVP players without pressuring them to buy packs and such, there are routes they could go. All characters in PVP could be set to the same level. XP and coin rewards could be increased for playing PVP. Equipment that can only be used in PVP could be unlocked based on how many PVP games are played. There are lots of ways that don't involve spending money to speed up the process that would give PVP players a more fun experience. Blizzard has chosen not to go that route. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the game anyway, just be aware of what the developer has chosen to do.
I see, I didn't know it was common for people to move around in Blizzard, but I am excited to see what Brode has been working on for the last few years.
Rare coins are extremely easy to get, and you can farm them in a targeted manner, so I can't imagine that feeling like a grindy experience.
Epics are less easy, and legendaries are harder still, but that's as it should be. Better units should require more effort to improve, and there has to be some incentive to spend money, or the mode is dead on arrival.
There are many ways to play HS. What if the Daycare uses the amount of XP you earn playing other HS modes to level your Mercs. (Not keep you from earning the XP, but use it as a base to set the amount the Merc's earn.)
You could still train some Mercs and play other parts of HS. It may not be as effective as playing Mercs and power leveling, but it is something to encourage you to also play other parts of HS.
This would actually encourage engagement in all aspects of HS.
Ben Brode is running his own company and is no longer at Blizzard. Most of the high-profile leaves from the Hearthstone team over the past few years are no longer with the company.
Blizzard has devs move off games to work on new projects all the time. Sometimes they don't make it out of a concept phase though.
So many people have been leaving HS for unannounced projects... and none of them have been announced. At this point, I think Ben Brode is up to something sketchy lol
That's the cynical interpretation, sure, and cynicism has it's place in the world. But it sounds like you're just intent on viewing it negatively. If the first tier of the Training Grounds is completely free, and you can improve it for gold (so available to F2P players), then they are offering ways to compensate for slow grinding without asking for any money.
Besides, the most important part is that, like Pokemon, there will be 2 types of players that treat grinding very differently: First, there will be the players who are playing primarily for the solo experience, and want the game to maintain a sense of progression for a long time. Those players will be fine with fairly slow leveling, because the way they are playing the game doesn't require them to reach high levels quickly.
Second, there are the competitive players, who care most of all about preparing a powerful team to battle other players with. Those players will want to be able to level as quickly as possible so they can put their plans into action while they're still excited about them. To them, the grind is merely an obstruction to their destination.
How do you simultaneously satisfy both types of player when what they want is fundamentally opposed? You can come up with your own answers, but having baseline slow(-ish) leveling with options to speed it up is a perfectly valid approach with nothing fundamentally nefarious about it.
The game could have been designed to be less grindy in the first place. By adding an ability to skip playing, they acknowledge that the game is to slow to be fun, but haven't fixed it. The implication is that the game is deliberately too slow so that some kind of booster can be sold for additional money. Its a red flag indicating that you should guard your wallet.
I had never considered that it might cost anything to upgrade these buildings... Not sure why I hadn't thought of that. Maybe because I haven't been spending a lot of time thinking about the mode other than thinking "I'll give it a try when it's out!"
You don't EV train all the way to level 100. You only do it until you've maxed your EVs then try to gain exp as quickly as possible, which often does mean jamming rare candies down their throats. And the fact exp share and lucky egg still require you to do battles doesn't change the fact they reduce the number of battles you need to do.
I agree the day care isn't really for leveling though, but that was it's original intent in gen 1 when breeding didn't exist. Heck, it took 'til 7th gen before they finally removed the exp training side of it, meaning it was still meant as an option to train things passively. A crappy option, but still an option.
That isn't bad at all; for whatever reason I was expecting a much-worse total. With my current savings I'll be able to drop about 40 packs-worth of coinage on Mercenaries (to go with my 100 preorder packs) while still allotting for a full village and the Stormwind mini-set.
Except in Pokemon most of those aren't substitutes for playing but are meant to be used alongside gameplay. You don't just jam Rare Candies to skip training because you still need EVs. Exp Share and Lucky Eggs are additional ways to help out training weaker Pokemon, but are designed to be used alongside playing through the game. The daycare isn't even really used for levelling as much as it is for breeding.
The idea for a daycare in Mercenaries only makes sense if you didn't have the ability to passively level up Mercs while keeping them in your party.
I mean, they are letting you train 1, maybe 2 characters passively at a time. That's still going to be a small contribution when you actively train 6 by actually playing it.
Whether it is the daycare centre, rare candies, exp share or lucky egg, Pokemon does the exact same thing by giving you a few ways to speed up leveling. No one ever takes that as a sign that the core gameplay of Pokemon is worth skipping. Rather it is a sign that the grinding isn't the only part of Pokemon gameplay, and if the competitive battles are your jam then of course you welcome ways to speed up the process of leveling up.
Seems pointless. We know mercenaries receive XP if they're in a party even if they aren't used. You should be able to add a few low level mercs to a high level party and run high level missions to power level them very quickly.
Its the coins that are important. It takes a lot of coins to fully upgrade a hero and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to cheese them. Just a ton of grinding or money for packs.
A lot of psychologically manipulative games will give you a resource relatively easily (gold or XP) so you feel invested, but will withhold a paid resource (dust or coins) to try to compel you to spend cash. They want you to look at your high level merc and think about how much better they'd be if you only had the coins to unlock better abilities. It'd be a shame to stop investing in the merc when they're already so close to being awesome...
I never used the daycare much either, but then Pokemon doesn't really give you much reason to outside of breeding. Most of the time you only care about 6 Pokemon, and it's much quicker to train them normally. It's also way too slow for training lots of Pokemon for competitive battles (and it won't give you any sweet EVs).
I can see its use in Mercs though, where you very well might want to train >>6 characters at once, so having a passive option is nice to have.
Because the main selling point of your game should be....you know...playing it? By already bringing a "you don't have to play to progress" feature they're basically implying that the meat of the game is not all that interesting, which isn't a good sign, especially when levelling is the main gameplay loop.
Really? Having a means of passive leveling in a game with a grinding element sounds like a simple quality of life option to me. Where exactly does the red flag come in?
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
You're correct that a free to play game likely needs to incentivize some spending, and the mercenary coins certainly aren't as bad as some of the other mobile stuff. I'm personally happy that there's no "energy" requirement to play the game.
Really it'll be a personal opinion whether the rate of coin acquisition is fast enough. I watched some of Kripparian's videos of playing the mode. He was intentionally grinding for Cariel Roame and Milhouse Manastorm and nearly had them at max level. But he was only about half-way, maybe less for leveling abilities and equipment. Most of the abilities don't improve based on the Merc's level, only the ability's level. We don't know yet exactly how this will go, but I think grinding for Merc coins is going to take longer than we may think.
How Expensive Are Hearthstone's Mercenaries Buildings? Includes the New Training Grounds Building
It was mentioned in the reveal video (but no prices were given), and free players latched on and blew it way out of proportion because they incorrectly assumed none of it would be free.
I think these prices seem quite reasonable.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
There are 51 mercs in the game. You can have six in your party. Assuming a full collection, that leaves 45 mercs not gaining XP at any given moment even while you are actively playing the game.
The Training Hall may not be useful to everyone, but people with large collections will be happy to have it -- not because it lets them "skip the game," but because there is a legitimate need to get untrained mercs up to speed quickly when you want to test out different comps.
Alec Dawson, Lead Designer on Final Design, Leaves the Hearthstone Team
I am too. Almost the entire team at Second Dinner has card game backgrounds which makes me believe it has to be in that genre. My expectations is that they're going to do something wild to shake things up since it is realistically the only way they're going to break into the market. Using Marvel IP certainly helps push things along, but if your card game doesn't bring new and exciting stuff to the table, it might be dead on arrival.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
I don't entirely disagree you, my main point it that a system that allows you to skip boring parts of the game should be considered a red flag due to the large number of games that abuse such systems to try to get more money from their players. Even in this case, the developers are asking for pseudo money (gold) to give us this option rather than tying it to something like having one merc reach maximum level.
Personally, I'll be enjoying the slow grind in PVE, so I've got no skin in the game. I just don't like psychologically manipulative stuff in games.
If Blizzard wanted to satisfy PVP players without pressuring them to buy packs and such, there are routes they could go. All characters in PVP could be set to the same level. XP and coin rewards could be increased for playing PVP. Equipment that can only be used in PVP could be unlocked based on how many PVP games are played. There are lots of ways that don't involve spending money to speed up the process that would give PVP players a more fun experience. Blizzard has chosen not to go that route. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the game anyway, just be aware of what the developer has chosen to do.
Alec Dawson, Lead Designer on Final Design, Leaves the Hearthstone Team
I see, I didn't know it was common for people to move around in Blizzard, but I am excited to see what Brode has been working on for the last few years.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Rare coins are extremely easy to get, and you can farm them in a targeted manner, so I can't imagine that feeling like a grindy experience.
Epics are less easy, and legendaries are harder still, but that's as it should be. Better units should require more effort to improve, and there has to be some incentive to spend money, or the mode is dead on arrival.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
I mean, there are people who like grind. And those are certainly part of the main target audience.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Just spit-balling here:
There are many ways to play HS. What if the Daycare uses the amount of XP you earn playing other HS modes to level your Mercs. (Not keep you from earning the XP, but use it as a base to set the amount the Merc's earn.)
You could still train some Mercs and play other parts of HS. It may not be as effective as playing Mercs and power leveling, but it is something to encourage you to also play other parts of HS.
This would actually encourage engagement in all aspects of HS.
Edited for typo
Alec Dawson, Lead Designer on Final Design, Leaves the Hearthstone Team
Ben Brode is running his own company and is no longer at Blizzard. Most of the high-profile leaves from the Hearthstone team over the past few years are no longer with the company.
Blizzard has devs move off games to work on new projects all the time. Sometimes they don't make it out of a concept phase though.
Ben said on Twitter earlier this year that they were hoping to make some kind of an announcement in the next 12-ish months, so 7-ish months to go! https://outof.cards/second-dinner/3062-ben-brodes-second-dinner-is-hoping-to-announce-their-new-game-in-the-next-12-ish-months
Alec Dawson, Lead Designer on Final Design, Leaves the Hearthstone Team
So many people have been leaving HS for unannounced projects... and none of them have been announced. At this point, I think Ben Brode is up to something sketchy lol
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
That's the cynical interpretation, sure, and cynicism has it's place in the world. But it sounds like you're just intent on viewing it negatively. If the first tier of the Training Grounds is completely free, and you can improve it for gold (so available to F2P players), then they are offering ways to compensate for slow grinding without asking for any money.
Besides, the most important part is that, like Pokemon, there will be 2 types of players that treat grinding very differently: First, there will be the players who are playing primarily for the solo experience, and want the game to maintain a sense of progression for a long time. Those players will be fine with fairly slow leveling, because the way they are playing the game doesn't require them to reach high levels quickly.
Second, there are the competitive players, who care most of all about preparing a powerful team to battle other players with. Those players will want to be able to level as quickly as possible so they can put their plans into action while they're still excited about them. To them, the grind is merely an obstruction to their destination.
How do you simultaneously satisfy both types of player when what they want is fundamentally opposed? You can come up with your own answers, but having baseline slow(-ish) leveling with options to speed it up is a perfectly valid approach with nothing fundamentally nefarious about it.
How Expensive Are Hearthstone's Mercenaries Buildings? Includes the New Training Grounds Building
It would be funny, if you ll need to spend some gold for spending gold in the shop. Full ActiBlizz :D
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
The game could have been designed to be less grindy in the first place. By adding an ability to skip playing, they acknowledge that the game is to slow to be fun, but haven't fixed it. The implication is that the game is deliberately too slow so that some kind of booster can be sold for additional money. Its a red flag indicating that you should guard your wallet.
How Expensive Are Hearthstone's Mercenaries Buildings? Includes the New Training Grounds Building
I had never considered that it might cost anything to upgrade these buildings... Not sure why I hadn't thought of that. Maybe because I haven't been spending a lot of time thinking about the mode other than thinking "I'll give it a try when it's out!"
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
You don't EV train all the way to level 100. You only do it until you've maxed your EVs then try to gain exp as quickly as possible, which often does mean jamming rare candies down their throats. And the fact exp share and lucky egg still require you to do battles doesn't change the fact they reduce the number of battles you need to do.
I agree the day care isn't really for leveling though, but that was it's original intent in gen 1 when breeding didn't exist. Heck, it took 'til 7th gen before they finally removed the exp training side of it, meaning it was still meant as an option to train things passively. A crappy option, but still an option.
How Expensive Are Hearthstone's Mercenaries Buildings? Includes the New Training Grounds Building
That isn't bad at all; for whatever reason I was expecting a much-worse total. With my current savings I'll be able to drop about 40 packs-worth of coinage on Mercenaries (to go with my 100 preorder packs) while still allotting for a full village and the Stormwind mini-set.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Except in Pokemon most of those aren't substitutes for playing but are meant to be used alongside gameplay. You don't just jam Rare Candies to skip training because you still need EVs. Exp Share and Lucky Eggs are additional ways to help out training weaker Pokemon, but are designed to be used alongside playing through the game. The daycare isn't even really used for levelling as much as it is for breeding.
The idea for a daycare in Mercenaries only makes sense if you didn't have the ability to passively level up Mercs while keeping them in your party.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
I mean, they are letting you train 1, maybe 2 characters passively at a time. That's still going to be a small contribution when you actively train 6 by actually playing it.
Whether it is the daycare centre, rare candies, exp share or lucky egg, Pokemon does the exact same thing by giving you a few ways to speed up leveling. No one ever takes that as a sign that the core gameplay of Pokemon is worth skipping. Rather it is a sign that the grinding isn't the only part of Pokemon gameplay, and if the competitive battles are your jam then of course you welcome ways to speed up the process of leveling up.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Seems pointless. We know mercenaries receive XP if they're in a party even if they aren't used. You should be able to add a few low level mercs to a high level party and run high level missions to power level them very quickly.
Its the coins that are important. It takes a lot of coins to fully upgrade a hero and there doesn't seem to be an easy way to cheese them. Just a ton of grinding or money for packs.
A lot of psychologically manipulative games will give you a resource relatively easily (gold or XP) so you feel invested, but will withhold a paid resource (dust or coins) to try to compel you to spend cash. They want you to look at your high level merc and think about how much better they'd be if you only had the coins to unlock better abilities. It'd be a shame to stop investing in the merc when they're already so close to being awesome...
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
"What sort of messed up crossover fan fiction is this?"
If this wasn't already a thing, then it certainly is one now.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
I never used the daycare much either, but then Pokemon doesn't really give you much reason to outside of breeding. Most of the time you only care about 6 Pokemon, and it's much quicker to train them normally. It's also way too slow for training lots of Pokemon for competitive battles (and it won't give you any sweet EVs).
I can see its use in Mercs though, where you very well might want to train >>6 characters at once, so having a passive option is nice to have.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Because the main selling point of your game should be....you know...playing it? By already bringing a "you don't have to play to progress" feature they're basically implying that the meat of the game is not all that interesting, which isn't a good sign, especially when levelling is the main gameplay loop.
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
Really? Having a means of passive leveling in a game with a grinding element sounds like a simple quality of life option to me. Where exactly does the red flag come in?
Hearthstone Mercenaries Goes Full Pokemon - The Training Hall Brings Daycare to Level Up Your Mercenaries Automatically
I don't know, to me it's always a red flag when games offer you the option NOT to play them.