I think the meta is decent right now, but it's telling that neither Blizzard nor OoC has had a good "off-meta decks to try" article in awhile. It's not that the class balance is that bad (except Paladin and Shaman on the extremes), but it doesn't feel like there's any room for experimentation. If you're not running THE most effective decklist it just falls apart in this meta because the good decks are so over-tuned.
Still, it's pretty hilarious that Paladin was the main target of the nerfs and it's win-rate actually went up. I got massively downvoted a month or so ago for saying that Aldor Attendant should be reverted to a 2-mana 2/3, but that's exactly what should happen.
Almost all of the buffs were fine, but none were really worth any hype. Is it weird though that I think the Lillypad Lurker buff went too far even though the mechanic, archetype, and class are still unplayable? It's these kinds of decisions that really confuse the community. Everyone knows card draw is the main problem in Shaman, followed by an inconsistent/unsynergistic hero-power, followed by Overload being poorly balanced (Blizzard has gotten much better on this final issue with the Core Set buffs). So they release two buffs to the elemental archetype that address none of these concerns. Honestly though, I'm fine with Shaman sucking until the next Core Set rotation (maybe an updated/new hero power??) because giving it ridiculous cards to counterbalance the problems with the entire class is a recipe for disaster.
Aldor attendant shouldnt be changed at all.
If wanan nerf pally its conviction , oh my yogg, the secret weapon
I actually have been thinking about it for a while, and in my opinion the problem might be thus;
- Removal options have substantially decreased due to the core set introduction and we're still currently on the first of three expansions means this is the least amount of cards we have at our disposal. Paladin's ability to keep the board is therefore more secure than it's ever been.
- Via three new cards; Sword of the Fallen, Knight of Anointment, and Northwatch Commander, paladin's draw options are fairly robust. In fact in this expansion, due to the rotated generator options, I find that the number 1 problem when I'm trying to build decks is that without any draw engine that deck is fairly dead in the water unless a ton of generators are also present. Hence why building shaman decks feels like pulling teeth.
- The better discover pools is unusually making paladin better by buffing two cards that by all rights should be absolutely trash or just okay, and that's Underlight Angling Rod and First Day of School. In fact both rogue and priest, whose discover pools have often been dangerous in the past, has been substantially weakened in this area by having most of their reactive tools taken away. Even shaman have ironically suffered by having that one card that basically was the hallmark of an entire archetype: Totemic Might
We can only pray that the midset would introduce better cards and will be more substantial to this expansion than darkmoon race is to darkmoon itself. The buffs introduced earlier has been, in no uncertain terms, about as impactful as an ant is to a whale. I get that team5 probably wouldn't want to make radical changes, but if they want to see a different meta, it might do to actually make real buffs to cards that will otherwise never see play like say...caravans? Say what you like about the watchpost meta earlier, at least it made hearthstone feel and play differently. I really think team5 should have kept the Mor'shan Watch Post intact because we're not going to see any of them for the next 2 years unless a truly bonkers card on the lines of Totemic Reflection is printed.
I think the meta is decent right now, but it's telling that neither Blizzard nor OoC has had a good "off-meta decks to try" article in awhile. It's not that the class balance is that bad (except Paladin and Shaman on the extremes), but it doesn't feel like there's any room for experimentation. If you're not running THE most effective decklist it just falls apart in this meta because the good decks are so over-tuned.
Still, it's pretty hilarious that Paladin was the main target of the nerfs and it's win-rate actually went up. I got massively downvoted a month or so ago for saying that Aldor Attendant should be reverted to a 2-mana 2/3, but that's exactly what should happen.
Almost all of the buffs were fine, but none were really worth any hype. Is it weird though that I think the Lillypad Lurker buff went too far even though the mechanic, archetype, and class are still unplayable? It's these kinds of decisions that really confuse the community. Everyone knows card draw is the main problem in Shaman, followed by an inconsistent/unsynergistic hero-power, followed by Overload being poorly balanced (Blizzard has gotten much better on this final issue with the Core Set buffs). So they release two buffs to the elemental archetype that address none of these concerns. Honestly though, I'm fine with Shaman sucking until the next Core Set rotation (maybe an updated/new hero power??) because giving it ridiculous cards to counterbalance the problems with the entire class is a recipe for disaster.
That was not said. Dawson said that the meta was going to change through the mini set, not that power creep was going be used to change the meta. It could be done in the way jade druid was nerfed.
I saw a r/hearthstone post where someone shared a screenshot of hsreplay stats and the only difference pre-nerf and post was that mage had slightly lower wr.
I'll be honest this is so heavily reliant on jargan to be entirely uninformative. If you have a point make it, don't just slam a bunch of numbers and pretend you're bright...this ain't a measuring contest son.
Instead I'm gonna show you a clip from Graplr where he uses one of the worst champions according to swim in a TF Zillian list a concept I actually pioneered before him.
https://youtu.be/YUqjgKoHZ3I
So when I go to bat for these bad champions and say that everyone is just building them wrong thus far you'll believe me not because I slammed numbers but because I speak of objective truths and reality. Or I actually source my #### to put it more simple.
I'd like to know how down to the wire are these nerfs/buffs decided? Seems like either these recent changes were finalized just hours beforehand, or they decided and just didn't want to share what was being done until just before. If it's the latter than why is that? If it's the former, have they ever considered a pole for what the community thinks should get the adjustment(s)?
So basically they will print even stronger cards in other classes to rival current Paladin and Mage dominance choosing powercreep instead of getting the current powrr level down?
If is mostly the same power lvl and eahc has the nescary tools(draw/removal/burst/whatever) to handle/remove other clases stuff then that works.
That can work, Fighting fire with Fire.
But Hs hasnt really ever had that so its doubtfull they'd pull it that are all equally broken the classes
If they can do ti,its could be great but if not and 1 or more classes are less broken then theyre going to be like shaman now or even worse and could end up really badly.
I may be the only one with this, but I loved Karazhan. The Hearthstone team shines when they're being silly - the Barrens, Book of Heroes, and Demon Hunter content of late that's featured long speeches, rhymes, and macho macho big epaulette vibes is real drag, comparatively. With a mixture of Beauty and the Beast, the Great Gatsby, and 80s vibes, Karazhan's theme made me happy to play it. There was some real innovation there, too - the chess puzzle! Plus others.
Would you like to see new Dungeon Run bosses, modes, or cards?
No, for two reasons. The most important reason is that the Hearthstone team obviously already has a hard time optimizing everything on their hands. Constructed is in a good place, but UI overhauls are needed, Wild is iffy, Duels still needs adjustment, Arena will get attention, cosmetics are ramping up, and Mercenaries is in the backyard listening to Engelbert Humperdinck while polishing garden gnomes. Far better for Team 5 to spend their time developing those existing projects than updating solo content.
My other reason is more personal: I don't enjoy the bucket system. Choosing buckets is always a compromise: which of these choices would corrupt my gameplan the least? Buckets are often filled with crappy cards, cards for other gameplans, or - quite often - two great cards and one crippling one you hope you don't ever draw. The addition of Bob's Tavern was a necessary band-aid on a larger, more persistent problem with the mode.
However! While new content, new bosses, modes, or cards, would be a waste, system improvements would be brilliant. Carry over the treasure updates from Duels. Have buckets offer applicable and powerful cards. Balance overpowered bosses. Let us complete quests in solo content. Several of these changes are applicable to both Duels and Dungeon Runs, so you can fix two birds with one hammer!
So basically they will print even stronger cards in other classes to rival current Paladin and Mage dominance choosing powercreep instead of getting the current powrr level down?
I'm learning to play Il'gynoth Demon Hunter and having a lot of fun. Super strong deck, as far as I can tell right now Face Hunter is a bit of a problem, but everything else works out fine.
The class does not have a token for the upgraded Hero Power, but we can easily assume it to be restoring 2 Health to something and granting it +2 Attack.
Well, that's the upgraded version, which has been added with the class rework.
Alternate Spelling - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Competition Theme: Alternate Spelling
We're looking for the latest thing in spellcasting this week - don't stick to the old school!
Druid: Arcane, Nature
Hunter: Fire, Nature
Mage: Arcane, Fire, Frost
Paladin: Holy
Priest: Holy, Shadow
Rogue: Nature, Shadow
Shaman: Fire, Frost, Nature
Warlock: Fel, Fire, Shadow
Warrior: Fire, Nature
MathU wants us to expand our knowledge base for this competition. Maybe you'll come up with the next big archetype?
As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.
Competition Phases
Here are the phases of this card design competition
Discussion Thread Rules
No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
Aldor attendant shouldnt be changed at all.
If wanan nerf pally its conviction , oh my yogg, the secret weapon
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
I actually have been thinking about it for a while, and in my opinion the problem might be thus;
- Removal options have substantially decreased due to the core set introduction and we're still currently on the first of three expansions means this is the least amount of cards we have at our disposal. Paladin's ability to keep the board is therefore more secure than it's ever been.
- Via three new cards; Sword of the Fallen, Knight of Anointment, and Northwatch Commander, paladin's draw options are fairly robust. In fact in this expansion, due to the rotated generator options, I find that the number 1 problem when I'm trying to build decks is that without any draw engine that deck is fairly dead in the water unless a ton of generators are also present. Hence why building shaman decks feels like pulling teeth.
- The better discover pools is unusually making paladin better by buffing two cards that by all rights should be absolutely trash or just okay, and that's Underlight Angling Rod and First Day of School. In fact both rogue and priest, whose discover pools have often been dangerous in the past, has been substantially weakened in this area by having most of their reactive tools taken away. Even shaman have ironically suffered by having that one card that basically was the hallmark of an entire archetype: Totemic Might
We can only pray that the midset would introduce better cards and will be more substantial to this expansion than darkmoon race is to darkmoon itself. The buffs introduced earlier has been, in no uncertain terms, about as impactful as an ant is to a whale. I get that team5 probably wouldn't want to make radical changes, but if they want to see a different meta, it might do to actually make real buffs to cards that will otherwise never see play like say...caravans? Say what you like about the watchpost meta earlier, at least it made hearthstone feel and play differently. I really think team5 should have kept the Mor'shan Watch Post intact because we're not going to see any of them for the next 2 years unless a truly bonkers card on the lines of Totemic Reflection is printed.
Riot Teases an Upcoming Legends of Runeterra Lab - Duo Queue: Shared Spoils
And from June 2 you will no longer be able to play with people from other regions.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
I think the meta is decent right now, but it's telling that neither Blizzard nor OoC has had a good "off-meta decks to try" article in awhile. It's not that the class balance is that bad (except Paladin and Shaman on the extremes), but it doesn't feel like there's any room for experimentation. If you're not running THE most effective decklist it just falls apart in this meta because the good decks are so over-tuned.
Still, it's pretty hilarious that Paladin was the main target of the nerfs and it's win-rate actually went up. I got massively downvoted a month or so ago for saying that Aldor Attendant should be reverted to a 2-mana 2/3, but that's exactly what should happen.
Almost all of the buffs were fine, but none were really worth any hype. Is it weird though that I think the Lillypad Lurker buff went too far even though the mechanic, archetype, and class are still unplayable? It's these kinds of decisions that really confuse the community. Everyone knows card draw is the main problem in Shaman, followed by an inconsistent/unsynergistic hero-power, followed by Overload being poorly balanced (Blizzard has gotten much better on this final issue with the Core Set buffs). So they release two buffs to the elemental archetype that address none of these concerns. Honestly though, I'm fine with Shaman sucking until the next Core Set rotation (maybe an updated/new hero power??) because giving it ridiculous cards to counterbalance the problems with the entire class is a recipe for disaster.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
That was not said. Dawson said that the meta was going to change through the mini set, not that power creep was going be used to change the meta. It could be done in the way jade druid was nerfed.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
I saw a r/hearthstone post where someone shared a screenshot of hsreplay stats and the only difference pre-nerf and post was that mage had slightly lower wr.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
I still think Bruh'kan is very oppressive for Shaman. If a shaman can tutor (nature) spells it can easily draw a insane combo with that Notetaker.
But in its current state, shaman is way too slow and too much relying on topdecks.
Will be a hardfix, but maybe a elemental that allows carddraw will be released in the mini-set.
Dean Ayala's Hearthstone Community Q&A #18 - Balance Change Insights, More New Minion Types, and More!
Ero-sensei would be an ideal Shaman hero - FROGS!
Orochimaru as a Warlock, of course, Shikamaru as a Rogue, Kiba as a Hunter, the First Hokage as a Druid, but who would be a Mage?
Dean Ayala's Hearthstone Community Q&A #18 - Balance Change Insights, More New Minion Types, and More!
Mad Bomber, Madder Bomber, and Deidara as a neutral legendary Maddest Bomber, maybe?
Dean Ayala's Hearthstone Community Q&A #18 - Balance Change Insights, More New Minion Types, and More!
Hah! I came down to the comments just to say this. BOMBS! Of course he's a Warrior :D
Why analysing cards over their overall winrate is wrong
I'll be honest this is so heavily reliant on jargan to be entirely uninformative. If you have a point make it, don't just slam a bunch of numbers and pretend you're bright...this ain't a measuring contest son.
Instead I'm gonna show you a clip from Graplr where he uses one of the worst champions according to swim in a TF Zillian list a concept I actually pioneered before him.
https://youtu.be/YUqjgKoHZ3I
So when I go to bat for these bad champions and say that everyone is just building them wrong thus far you'll believe me not because I slammed numbers but because I speak of objective truths and reality. Or I actually source my #### to put it more simple.
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
I'd like to know how down to the wire are these nerfs/buffs decided? Seems like either these recent changes were finalized just hours beforehand, or they decided and just didn't want to share what was being done until just before. If it's the latter than why is that? If it's the former, have they ever considered a pole for what the community thinks should get the adjustment(s)?
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
If is mostly the same power lvl and eahc has the nescary tools(draw/removal/burst/whatever) to handle/remove other clases stuff then that works.
That can work, Fighting fire with Fire.
But Hs hasnt really ever had that so its doubtfull they'd pull it that are all equally broken the classes
If they can do ti,its could be great but if not and 1 or more classes are less broken then theyre going to be like shaman now or even worse and could end up really badly.
Would You Want to See Hearthstone's Dungeon Run Updated With New Cards & Bosses? Game Designer Matt London Asks
What is your favorite adventure content? Why?
I may be the only one with this, but I loved Karazhan. The Hearthstone team shines when they're being silly - the Barrens, Book of Heroes, and Demon Hunter content of late that's featured long speeches, rhymes, and macho macho big epaulette vibes is real drag, comparatively. With a mixture of Beauty and the Beast, the Great Gatsby, and 80s vibes, Karazhan's theme made me happy to play it. There was some real innovation there, too - the chess puzzle! Plus others.
Would you like to see new Dungeon Run bosses, modes, or cards?
No, for two reasons. The most important reason is that the Hearthstone team obviously already has a hard time optimizing everything on their hands. Constructed is in a good place, but UI overhauls are needed, Wild is iffy, Duels still needs adjustment, Arena will get attention, cosmetics are ramping up, and Mercenaries is in the backyard listening to Engelbert Humperdinck while polishing garden gnomes. Far better for Team 5 to spend their time developing those existing projects than updating solo content.
My other reason is more personal: I don't enjoy the bucket system. Choosing buckets is always a compromise: which of these choices would corrupt my gameplan the least? Buckets are often filled with crappy cards, cards for other gameplans, or - quite often - two great cards and one crippling one you hope you don't ever draw. The addition of Bob's Tavern was a necessary band-aid on a larger, more persistent problem with the mode.
However! While new content, new bosses, modes, or cards, would be a waste, system improvements would be brilliant. Carry over the treasure updates from Duels. Have buckets offer applicable and powerful cards. Balance overpowered bosses. Let us complete quests in solo content. Several of these changes are applicable to both Duels and Dungeon Runs, so you can fix two birds with one hammer!
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
New nerfs or mini expansion?
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
So what ? we're going to need to wait for the mini expansion set to see where the meta should be ?
Riot Teases an Upcoming Legends of Runeterra Lab - Duo Queue: Shared Spoils
None of my friends play LoR :(
Blizzard Thinks Paladin Remains Stronger Than They'd Like After the Latest Hearthstone Balance Changes
So basically they will print even stronger cards in other classes to rival current Paladin and Mage dominance choosing powercreep instead of getting the current powrr level down?
Rewards Track: Current progress 2.0
I just finished all my weeklies and reached level 151. I am also closing in rapidly (-25 wins) on completing my eighth 1000 wins class (Shaman).
The massive hero portraits influx is taxing indeed, but still manageable I think. However, I feel the overall quality has diminished somewhat though.
My next milestone is really far away (+101 levels) at which I will pick up Dragonstalker Rexxar as my third T2 hero portrait like I mentioned before.
The current meta is quite stale already. Do we have some new info about the upcoming Wailing Caverns mini-set? When do we expect it will be released?
Would You Want to See Hearthstone's Dungeon Run Updated With New Cards & Bosses? Game Designer Matt London Asks
I did not play Dungeon Run for more than a year, so I do not care.
Sorry for not helping :-/
Post-nerf Meta Discussion!
I'm learning to play Il'gynoth Demon Hunter and having a lot of fun. Super strong deck, as far as I can tell right now Face Hunter is a bit of a problem, but everything else works out fine.
Neoguli's Custom Witch Doctor Class - Hearthstone Fan Community Spotlight
Updated. Thank you.
Neoguli's Custom Witch Doctor Class - Hearthstone Fan Community Spotlight
Well, that's the upgraded version, which has been added with the class rework.
Why analysing cards over their overall winrate is wrong
Very good write up. I always cringe a little when players try to argue a point using win rates (and play rates) of cards without any context.
“Why are you complaining about X card? It’s only played in Tier 4 decks!” is a popular one.