Interesting statistics and a great article by the way.
On a personal note, the least used legendary cards seems like a bit of a problem of deck archetypes being pushed.
Silas Darkmoon, being the expansion pre-release legendary falls into most other pre-release legendary cards. Nichely useful and fun to entertain people until the rest of the expansion arrives. A great card in arena and duels, but hard to leverage properly in ranked where the meta is defined by how broken of a combo you can make, and a 7 mana pseudo mind control just doesn't cut it there. In any other card game, Silas would be an auto include. I think this shows just how much Hearthstone has moved away from reactionary play to combo oriented play.
Grand Empress Shek'zara seems like a card that would be great for a togwaggle scheme combo with a low cost value card, but unfortunately that scenario just doesn't seem to exist (yet).
Maxima Blastenheimer seems like a great card (to me). It's unfortunate that that path of least resistance is to continue to use the old meta face hunter deck. A fun card at that, that couples well with deathrattle synergies.
Zai, the Incredible is simply put. A square peg for a class that only looks for round holes. DH since the early nerfs to Priestess of Fury and Imprisoned Anteon, has been pigeon holed into the aggro department. Which is sad, because I do look forward to the day that a big Demon Hunter deck can be viable. It's an incredible card (pun intended) for any value oriented demon hunter deck....which simply does not exist at the moment. I could see this being used in a highlander demon hunter deck to duplicate high impact cards that happen to be on the left or right (like zephyrs or DQA).
Greybough simply put is a fair card in a non-fair meta. And in a deck that has a win condition of playing a 9 drop that fills the board with 8/8+ minions, a 5 mana 4/6 that requires another target to gain value (and die twice to see that value) just doesn't cut it.
Deck of Chaos is most likely being slept on. It seems like many people are too afraid of building a deck around it, draw the card and play it, to have any consistency.
Shocked/Not-Shocked to see what is and is not in the top items.
I am a little surprised at the lack of DMF cards in Pure Paladin though. Even in Libroom there is in the inclusion of a few of the DMF cards, I wonder it if is because the standing deck has such a solid win rate?
I don't understand the Deck of Chaos being at the bottom of this list as being in 1% of decks. Honestly, I love that card. I have put it in everything non-zoo in the past 72 hours.
In wild, honestly, getting that 3 mana 9/9 Voidlord makes people not happy. Not to mention the Khartut Defender becoming more of a hassle than it normally is. Even in the games where it was close to the last of my cards to be drawn, it wasn't a make or break for the decks... but when I drew it early, it was wonderful.
This way you can test the core of your concept for half the cost.
Tickatus can easily be slapped into a Renolock or Demonlock shell with only minor risk, while the old god needs additional support that risks to make the deck suboptimal.
Afterall, Brann Bronzebeard exists for 10 cards burns. Also, decks in Wild tend to draw way faster than 10 cards burn being a consistent wincon, making Y'shaarj redundant. Or you simply die before you can set it up.
Personally I dropped Tickatus but it was barely important in the few games I tried it. Its setup is slower than it seems on paper. So doubling it sounds like greedy overkill to me.
PS: burned cards CAN accelerate fatigue if cards are burned, but it never triggers fatigue damage. So you don't immediately kill with tickatus. At best you setup one fatigue tick on next turn. So in the meanwhile you still have to survive for several turns unless you close the game by other means. It's not Coldlight Milling. Subtle but crucial.
I ended up crafting both and I gotta say, that dropping the Tickatus corrupted and then doing it again when I play Y'Shaarj, the Defiler was great. Brann Bronzebeard, as always, barely made it a turn so I wasn't counting on him being on the board for anytime I drop it.
I did discover though that having 10 cards milled from highlander decks causes the opponent to concede REALLY quick. I do play 1-2 other corrupted cards, so I grab a few when I drop the old god, so it's not a one trick pony. Cascading Disaster is amazing with control, AND should you corrupt it and Plot Twist, it retains it's corrupted state... which is AMAZING
IMO, too many players think they need to be spikes in order to reach legend. So it results in people who aren't creative, can't fathom playing an unrefined deck, and believe the only way they'll reach legend is by playing aggro decks. Every season that I've made legend I did so with something other than an aggro deck....barring one season that I succumbed to playing face hunter.
I'm still going to check and see if things are better today. I have already spent some time playing Runeterra and i had no issues with that game. I'm gonna log in to check the quests and see what i can do.
You are not alone in how you feel. This system is a huge disappointment. I made a detailed post about it in this thread, but the basic conclusion is that we need to hit what appears to be an unobtainable level in order to earn the minimum gold we would have earned in the old daily quest system.
"At level 50 we still need 3300 gold to reach the 8500 gold mark. Which means we need 22 more level up rewards @ 150 each. At level 72 we hit the mark, which is the low end of what the original system allowed."
Level 72 seems like a long shot based on how slow progress becomes at levels in the 20s.
But if a bug is determined to be real, I expect Blizzard will respond appropriately. Folks will recall that when Gadgetzan came out, there was a massive bug with pack open that favored Tri-Class cards, and thanks to the lack of duplicate protection, people missed out on a ton of new cards. Blizzard resolved that and gave people new packs to make up for the mistake.
Now that you mention it, it can really be that the legendary received in the reward track is taken by the system as the first legendary gained, thereby removing the 1 legend every first 10 pack guarantee.
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see them owning up to this or give out compensation, much like the maligned missed dailies and weeklies quest debacle. Sucks that every time they ride high on the good side of the community it all comes crashing down the mountain made from their own poor decisions and miscommunications.
Worth mentioning, I got Inara Stormcrash as my first Reward Track reward, and I opened it before opening any pack, maybe it counts towards the first 10 packs timer? It really shouldn't but as stated above, the game is full with this kind of bugs right now.
If there's a bug, I agree that this would be the most likely source - Blizzard's pity timer erroneously identifying the reward Legendary as a pack Legendary, in turn clearing the 10 pack timer and resetting your timer back to 40 packs before you've opened one. That doesn't match my experience, but it's very believable.
But if a bug is determined to be real, I expect Blizzard will respond appropriately. Folks will recall that when Gadgetzan came out, there was a massive bug with pack open that favored Tri-Class cards, and thanks to the lack of duplicate protection, people missed out on a ton of new cards. Blizzard resolved that and gave people new packs to make up for the mistake.
I have had Yogg played against me twice, and both times I was briefly disconnected, just long enough to miss what he did. Has this happened to anyone else?
Yep, both times played against me, i crashed.
Had the card once in duels. After having cast enough spells (it said 'ready'), i used the card and it was a normal 10 mana 7/5 that did nothing.
My sympathies. I've had similar issues at different times, though not at the moment. I also felt that my internet connection was not the problem, but after power-cycling my router and rebooting my computer, things improved. It's worth a shot, if you haven't done this already.
Yeah, it is pretty silly how librams have completely taken over paladin to the point where I don't consider 'libram paladin' to be its own thing anymore. I think it is clear you have a class design issue when the auto-include cards are also the primary win condition, thereby making every archetype in the class much too similar.
The only thing that I can say about this, I didn't get the guaranteed legendary on my first 10 packs, but I did get 2 on my first 40 packs.
I ordered the big bundle, opened the 5 golden ones first, no legendary (as expected...), then moved to the normal packs, opened 17 and then I got the first one (Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate), and after 5 more packs got the second one (Zai, the Incredible).
In the end I fell quite robbed of the guaranteed at 10 packs, but could be worse...
Worth mentioning, I got Inara Stormcrash as my first Reward Track reward, and I opened it before opening any pack, maybe it counts towards the first 10 packs timer? It really shouldn't but as stated above, the game is full with this kind of bugs right now.
I don't know. The entire issue right now seems highly speculative to me. Firstly we have no proof, secondly I would not place too much credibility on the isolated statement of a local customer support rep and lastly this could easily be a bug. If it really happened then it should be a bug. If they really changed it to the worse and this becomes known (which it will be sooner or later if true) then this will cause another huge uproar. But again I dont think this is intentional.
That said it was always my opinion that they should clearly state the odds for transparency reasons.
I buy dapperdog's argument that these claims (if true) could be a potential bug. Any other speculation about Blizzard removing the pity timer strikes me as just people looking for more things to be mad at Blizzard for. A couple of things worth noting on the topic of the Legendary card pity timer:
Blizzard has said that Legendaries come approximately 1 in every 20 packs
Blizzard has effectively comfirmed the pity timers by saying that opening packs increases the odds of getting higher quality cards
These announcements were made as part of compliance with Chinese law, so it's very unlikely that they'd change the game behavior without a subsequent disclosure. Doing so would open them up to being caught lying on these compliance reports, which needlessly opens up legal issues for Blizzard in the Chinese market. Given Blizzard's initial actions during the Blitzchung controversy, it's safe to say they care a lot about continued access to the Chinese market, and won't take steps that jeopardize that. (Anecdotally, my experience opening Darkmoon Faire packs lines up well with the 1 in every 20 packs average.)
One important caveat to these disclosures is that they don't mean you will get an average number of Legendaries, or that a Legendary card is ever guaranteed. Statistical studies of pack opening in the past have shown the Legendary pity timer to guarantee a Legendary within 40 packs of your last opened Legendary card, but those aren't official numbers from Blizzard. It may be possible to tweak the odds of opening a Legendary to increase that statistical 40 pack cut-off while maintaining an average of 1 in 20 packs, but there's no evidence of that. PityTracker's current stats for Darkmoon Faire look the same as every other expansion in terms of how often you'll get a Legendary card.
Honestly, I think more likely than not, this is just a few people having bad luck (which happens every expansion) paired with angst and paranoia over the new Rewards system.
I have had Yogg played against me twice, and both times I was briefly disconnected, just long enough to miss what he did. Has this happened to anyone else?
That would be a yikes for me if that's actually the case. Hopefully, it's just like dapperdog actually said and it's a bug and they will give players some dust refunds as they did before. Other than that, it's hard to prove that the pity timer is removed because having 40+ packs costs a lot of money and then you have to hit the pity timer? Good luck with that, that's about a 0.1% chance.
Until there's like video proof of it it will always be speculative at best.
I think its likely a bug, along with the deluge of bugs that has only been increasing ever since battlegrounds was added, made worst in the past week by the new progression system.
Can't see why blizz would actively remove it. Most players will never reach the 40 pack timer to get their legendary, so its mostly going to upset whales, and we all know that's the last thing blizz needs on their plate right now. Besides which, its something that can be demonstrated, so hiding it would be near impossible. So if they can't hide it, and its not really affecting the majority of the playerbase, and its not going to make them more money, there's just no reason to believe this as anything other than an unintentional bug.
I see what you are saying, but I am talking about their response:
"This can happen, it happens that for Hearthstone, it is guaranteed that you will receive a legendary in the first 10 packages of an expansion that you are opening for the first time. After that, the legends would not be guaranteed and may or may not come."
It seems to be quite shady, I remember them not denying the pity timer before now they just did with that, and this users' experience.
There was no guaranteed way to check just that statistics at some scale just tell the actual probabilities if enough data is provided and seeing as most players get rewards much slower and don't actually track what they get.. anyway if you keep playing it would be best if you kept a counter about your pity timer if we see more players reporting it's absence or posting similar results from Blizzard it would confirm it was intentionally removed.
Until there's like video proof of it it will always be speculative at best.
I think its likely a bug, along with the deluge of bugs that has only been increasing ever since battlegrounds was added, made worst in the past week by the new progression system.
Can't see why blizz would actively remove it. Most players will never reach the 40 pack timer to get their legendary, so its mostly going to upset whales, and we all know that's the last thing blizz needs on their plate right now. Besides which, its something that can be demonstrated, so hiding it would be near impossible. So if they can't hide it, and its not really affecting the majority of the playerbase, and its not going to make them more money, there's just no reason to believe this as anything other than an unintentional bug.
The Most Popular Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Legendary Cards From Week 1 of Hearthstone's New Expansion
Interesting statistics and a great article by the way.
On a personal note, the least used legendary cards seems like a bit of a problem of deck archetypes being pushed.
Silas Darkmoon, being the expansion pre-release legendary falls into most other pre-release legendary cards. Nichely useful and fun to entertain people until the rest of the expansion arrives. A great card in arena and duels, but hard to leverage properly in ranked where the meta is defined by how broken of a combo you can make, and a 7 mana pseudo mind control just doesn't cut it there. In any other card game, Silas would be an auto include. I think this shows just how much Hearthstone has moved away from reactionary play to combo oriented play.
Grand Empress Shek'zara seems like a card that would be great for a togwaggle scheme combo with a low cost value card, but unfortunately that scenario just doesn't seem to exist (yet).
Maxima Blastenheimer seems like a great card (to me). It's unfortunate that that path of least resistance is to continue to use the old meta face hunter deck. A fun card at that, that couples well with deathrattle synergies.
Zai, the Incredible is simply put. A square peg for a class that only looks for round holes. DH since the early nerfs to Priestess of Fury and Imprisoned Anteon, has been pigeon holed into the aggro department. Which is sad, because I do look forward to the day that a big Demon Hunter deck can be viable. It's an incredible card (pun intended) for any value oriented demon hunter deck....which simply does not exist at the moment. I could see this being used in a highlander demon hunter deck to duplicate high impact cards that happen to be on the left or right (like zephyrs or DQA).
Greybough simply put is a fair card in a non-fair meta. And in a deck that has a win condition of playing a 9 drop that fills the board with 8/8+ minions, a 5 mana 4/6 that requires another target to gain value (and die twice to see that value) just doesn't cut it.
Deck of Chaos is most likely being slept on. It seems like many people are too afraid of building a deck around it, draw the card and play it, to have any consistency.
The Top Standard Hearthstone Decks for Each Class in Darkmoon Faire
Shocked/Not-Shocked to see what is and is not in the top items.
I am a little surprised at the lack of DMF cards in Pure Paladin though. Even in Libroom there is in the inclusion of a few of the DMF cards, I wonder it if is because the standing deck has such a solid win rate?
The Most Popular Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Legendary Cards From Week 1 of Hearthstone's New Expansion
I don't understand the Deck of Chaos being at the bottom of this list as being in 1% of decks. Honestly, I love that card. I have put it in everything non-zoo in the past 72 hours.
In wild, honestly, getting that 3 mana 9/9 Voidlord makes people not happy. Not to mention the Khartut Defender becoming more of a hassle than it normally is. Even in the games where it was close to the last of my cards to be drawn, it wasn't a make or break for the decks... but when I drew it early, it was wonderful.
How soon is too soon to craft?
I ended up crafting both and I gotta say, that dropping the Tickatus corrupted and then doing it again when I play Y'Shaarj, the Defiler was great. Brann Bronzebeard, as always, barely made it a turn so I wasn't counting on him being on the board for anytime I drop it.
I did discover though that having 10 cards milled from highlander decks causes the opponent to concede REALLY quick. I do play 1-2 other corrupted cards, so I grab a few when I drop the old god, so it's not a one trick pony. Cascading Disaster is amazing with control, AND should you corrupt it and Plot Twist, it retains it's corrupted state... which is AMAZING
Disconnections
Yeah - I've seen this same thing, albeit inconsistently. It hasn't happened to me on mobile, though - just through the desktop app.
The Top Standard Hearthstone Decks for Each Class in Darkmoon Faire
IMO, too many players think they need to be spikes in order to reach legend. So it results in people who aren't creative, can't fathom playing an unrefined deck, and believe the only way they'll reach legend is by playing aggro decks. Every season that I've made legend I did so with something other than an aggro deck....barring one season that I succumbed to playing face hunter.
And I honestly felt dirty after.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Saleh#21769
Region: NA
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first
Disconnections
I'm still going to check and see if things are better today. I have already spent some time playing Runeterra and i had no issues with that game. I'm gonna log in to check the quests and see what i can do.
I do hate this new System, here is why:
You are not alone in how you feel. This system is a huge disappointment. I made a detailed post about it in this thread, but the basic conclusion is that we need to hit what appears to be an unobtainable level in order to earn the minimum gold we would have earned in the old daily quest system.
"At level 50 we still need 3300 gold to reach the 8500 gold mark. Which means we need 22 more level up rewards @ 150 each. At level 72 we hit the mark, which is the low end of what the original system allowed."
Level 72 seems like a long shot based on how slow progress becomes at levels in the 20s.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
Now that you mention it, it can really be that the legendary received in the reward track is taken by the system as the first legendary gained, thereby removing the 1 legend every first 10 pack guarantee.
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see them owning up to this or give out compensation, much like the maligned missed dailies and weeklies quest debacle. Sucks that every time they ride high on the good side of the community it all comes crashing down the mountain made from their own poor decisions and miscommunications.
New Neutral Minion - Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate
I've played him 3 times without any issues. I only got the disconnect when my opponent played him.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
If there's a bug, I agree that this would be the most likely source - Blizzard's pity timer erroneously identifying the reward Legendary as a pack Legendary, in turn clearing the 10 pack timer and resetting your timer back to 40 packs before you've opened one. That doesn't match my experience, but it's very believable.
But if a bug is determined to be real, I expect Blizzard will respond appropriately. Folks will recall that when Gadgetzan came out, there was a massive bug with pack open that favored Tri-Class cards, and thanks to the lack of duplicate protection, people missed out on a ton of new cards. Blizzard resolved that and gave people new packs to make up for the mistake.
New Neutral Minion - Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate
Yep, both times played against me, i crashed.
Had the card once in duels. After having cast enough spells (it said 'ready'), i used the card and it was a normal 10 mana 7/5 that did nothing.
Seems like it's Yogg Saron, Master of Bugs....
Disconnections
My sympathies. I've had similar issues at different times, though not at the moment. I also felt that my internet connection was not the problem, but after power-cycling my router and rebooting my computer, things improved. It's worth a shot, if you haven't done this already.
The Top Standard Hearthstone Decks for Each Class in Darkmoon Faire
Yeah, it is pretty silly how librams have completely taken over paladin to the point where I don't consider 'libram paladin' to be its own thing anymore. I think it is clear you have a class design issue when the auto-include cards are also the primary win condition, thereby making every archetype in the class much too similar.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
The only thing that I can say about this, I didn't get the guaranteed legendary on my first 10 packs, but I did get 2 on my first 40 packs.
I ordered the big bundle, opened the 5 golden ones first, no legendary (as expected...), then moved to the normal packs, opened 17 and then I got the first one (Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate), and after 5 more packs got the second one (Zai, the Incredible).
In the end I fell quite robbed of the guaranteed at 10 packs, but could be worse...
Worth mentioning, I got Inara Stormcrash as my first Reward Track reward, and I opened it before opening any pack, maybe it counts towards the first 10 packs timer? It really shouldn't but as stated above, the game is full with this kind of bugs right now.
Elite OTK warrior V2
Maybe it would be a good idea to actually explain the combo, as it is not so obvious?
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
I don't know. The entire issue right now seems highly speculative to me. Firstly we have no proof, secondly I would not place too much credibility on the isolated statement of a local customer support rep and lastly this could easily be a bug. If it really happened then it should be a bug. If they really changed it to the worse and this becomes known (which it will be sooner or later if true) then this will cause another huge uproar. But again I dont think this is intentional.
That said it was always my opinion that they should clearly state the odds for transparency reasons.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
I buy dapperdog's argument that these claims (if true) could be a potential bug. Any other speculation about Blizzard removing the pity timer strikes me as just people looking for more things to be mad at Blizzard for. A couple of things worth noting on the topic of the Legendary card pity timer:
(source: translated Chinese disclosure)
These announcements were made as part of compliance with Chinese law, so it's very unlikely that they'd change the game behavior without a subsequent disclosure. Doing so would open them up to being caught lying on these compliance reports, which needlessly opens up legal issues for Blizzard in the Chinese market. Given Blizzard's initial actions during the Blitzchung controversy, it's safe to say they care a lot about continued access to the Chinese market, and won't take steps that jeopardize that. (Anecdotally, my experience opening Darkmoon Faire packs lines up well with the 1 in every 20 packs average.)
One important caveat to these disclosures is that they don't mean you will get an average number of Legendaries, or that a Legendary card is ever guaranteed. Statistical studies of pack opening in the past have shown the Legendary pity timer to guarantee a Legendary within 40 packs of your last opened Legendary card, but those aren't official numbers from Blizzard. It may be possible to tweak the odds of opening a Legendary to increase that statistical 40 pack cut-off while maintaining an average of 1 in 20 packs, but there's no evidence of that. PityTracker's current stats for Darkmoon Faire look the same as every other expansion in terms of how often you'll get a Legendary card.
Honestly, I think more likely than not, this is just a few people having bad luck (which happens every expansion) paired with angst and paranoia over the new Rewards system.
New Neutral Minion - Yogg-Saron, Master of Fate
I have had Yogg played against me twice, and both times I was briefly disconnected, just long enough to miss what he did. Has this happened to anyone else?
Hearthstone Rewards Track Patch - Client Updated to Removed End of Track Pack Rewards, Replaced with Gold
Just remember when we first heard about the battle pass, the "original idea" was for each level that awarded gold would award ONLY 70 GOLD!
I'm sure Blizz adjusted those gold figures when the first outcry was heard
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/1715-blizzard-adding-a-battle-pass-to-hearthstone-survey-highlights-alternate-art-for-the-coin-new-hero-skins-paid-leveling-rewards
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
I run two accounts. Bought exactly 60 packs each (saving gold for the mini expansion).
On one account I got 2 legendarys.
One the other I got 7 (!).
I don't think it's rigged. Just stochastic destribution.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
That would be a yikes for me if that's actually the case. Hopefully, it's just like dapperdog actually said and it's a bug and they will give players some dust refunds as they did before. Other than that, it's hard to prove that the pity timer is removed because having 40+ packs costs a lot of money and then you have to hit the pity timer? Good luck with that, that's about a 0.1% chance.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
I see what you are saying, but I am talking about their response:
"This can happen, it happens that for Hearthstone, it is guaranteed that you will receive a legendary in the first 10 packages of an expansion that you are opening for the first time. After that, the legends would not be guaranteed and may or may not come."
It seems to be quite shady, I remember them not denying the pity timer before now they just did with that, and this users' experience.
There was no guaranteed way to check just that statistics at some scale just tell the actual probabilities if enough data is provided and seeing as most players get rewards much slower and don't actually track what they get.. anyway if you keep playing it would be best if you kept a counter about your pity timer if we see more players reporting it's absence or posting similar results from Blizzard it would confirm it was intentionally removed.
[UNCONFIRMED] It seems they removed the pity timer on legendaries
Until there's like video proof of it it will always be speculative at best.
I think its likely a bug, along with the deluge of bugs that has only been increasing ever since battlegrounds was added, made worst in the past week by the new progression system.
Can't see why blizz would actively remove it. Most players will never reach the 40 pack timer to get their legendary, so its mostly going to upset whales, and we all know that's the last thing blizz needs on their plate right now. Besides which, its something that can be demonstrated, so hiding it would be near impossible. So if they can't hide it, and its not really affecting the majority of the playerbase, and its not going to make them more money, there's just no reason to believe this as anything other than an unintentional bug.