Fun brawl! I love brawls like this one with restricted deck building. This gives me hope that they will be adding a restricted deck building format to the game this year.
From a balance perspective, I don't think Deep is that much of a problem considering that most of the sea monsters are pretty mediocre most of the game, and other archetypes have bombs to counter it most of the time. But yeah, it still feels bad especially when the high roll. I think a good solution would be to reduce the frequency of sea monsters, since the main problem comes when they barf up 3 huge guys in one turn.
Hey, i was first at something! :D Thanks for the shout-out. I went for something a bit unconventional, i was just browsing through my saved up art and i saw this beauty and decided to make a card for it :) Felt fitting, since dragons hoard loot :)
Yup. Just won me a game in a secret gala mirror. Opponent played tog's treasure that summoned 2 x legendary minions, to summon 2 x Colossus of the Moon. I played a secret and 2 x Blackjack Stunner to send them back to his hand and make them unplayable. Basically worked as a 4 mana plague of death that left me with 2 1:2 minons and a secret. Totally OP
There is little doubt the card is very strong, but your comparison to Plague of Death is misleading. You used each as single target removal not AoE, and rogue has the best single target removal in the game already. That part is crucial: there is a bigger design point at play here with every class getting cards that seem OP compared to what other classes get. Sometimes they actually are OP and need nerfing, but often they are just representations of a class' strengths.
This effect is doubled when there is a condition you have to meet as well, e.g. having a secret in play (especially in a class with very few secrets to choose from), which always entails a more powerful effect. So when you have a conditional battlecry that is also something the class is inherently the best at, it is always going to look crazy strong, but perhaps not actually over powered when everything is taken into consideration.
Yeah, I know. The key word in my post is that it 'worked' as a Plague of Death, ie in that particular instance. I'm not suggesting the card is an aoe every time it's played, rather that, in the situation I described, it cleared the opponent's board without triggering deathrattle / reborn mechanics, and prevented the opponent from being able to replay those cards.
I was thinking about something like that - redefining the keyword or changing some of the cards slightly. They've done that with Purrsuit of Perfection being converted to Accelerated Purrsuit, but honestly I don't love that. It seems really confusing to have slightly different cards and/or slightly different fundamental rules between formats.
Fair warning for anyone using Cobalt Spellkin. If your class has no 1-cost spells in this format, you don't get anything. It is pretty good in Rogue though, since they can only get Praise Galakrond! and/or Dragon's Hoard.
Didn't they say you can no longer transform minions into dormant minions? Or is my memory failing me.
Minions can no longer transform into Dormant minions that are dependent on a Battlecry effect to awaken (The Darkness or Magtheridon), but they can still transform into Dormant minions that wake up naturally with no player input needed (all the "imprisoned" minions).
1) Of course people are playing with new champions on the first day of a new expansion.People wanna see the potential of those new cards and all the new synergies.
2) It's also a new experience for you. Since you never played against those decks you don't really know what to expect and how to play around it. Plus with a new expansion decks are gonna get more powerful since there will be more cards to play with.
So just keep on playing and if you see a cool champion combination you can choose to craft those and play with them.
This deck si great. i play it from diamond 5 and reached legend for first time in my life with around 58% winrate
Octosari was good. Actually most of the game i didn't use that card, but for some games was the win condition because is a tall monster and the card draw
I had a similar experience with my pre-expansion decks. Ultimately I crafted a Sea Monster/Toss deck last night because I wanted to play something new anyway, and that deck felt very powerful. I think it's far from optimal, but I wanted to conserve my wildcards/shards.
That said, I'm not convinced that this is emblematic of some broad power creep in this new expansion (nor does it precluded massive power creep - it's just too early to say). A lot of the new cards and mechanics have pretty obvious builds - the Sea Monster/Toss deck, the Plunder/Face Damage aggro decks, etc., so I suspect some of this is just a combination of people being excited to play new stuff and the new stuff having a lot of obvious synergies. Once some meta starts to emerge, there may be more room to drop in older cards to shore up weaknesses of these new decks, or to counter them entirely.
Last night, my thinking was that I would play around using my pre-expansion decks just to put in some XP into my new region rewards, waiting until after I get some freebees and some inspiration before crafting anything new. I quickly made the following observations:
EVERYONE was playing decks built around expansion champions, implying they heavily crafted immediately
All my pre-expansion decks are very weak against these new decks:
My P&Z/Noxus aggro deck and SI/Frejlord control deck were both winless for the night.
I finally had some mild success with Vlad + Braum of all things--still less than 50%, but at least I could grind out my bonus XP
Did anyone else have comparable experiences?
Assuming these are representative, I have mixed feeling. On the one hand, it's probably good that the expansion cards are all powerful--I started playing M:tG right before Fallen Empire, probably the weakest expansion in their history, and it was overwhelmingly disappointing to be encouraged to buy all those shiny new packs just to find them easily beaten out by older cards and established decks. And it is fair to draw comparisons to trying to use an "evergreen" deck in either Hearthstone or M:tG and being dominated by those using the full library. On the other: I am very surprised that these cards were THAT much more powerful than the core set (assuming it's not just lack of ability on my end), especially considering this is the very first introduction of new cards. It's a significant power spike overnight. And I feel extremely sorry for any new players just getting started, trying to complete quests using starter decks.
The addition of Toss and Deep make a lot of sea monster decks feel unusually powerful thanks to the lower deck sizes in Expeditions, and the addition of "draw from your opponent's deck" cards can hit you twice, first by stealing your resources, then by decking you (again because the deck sizes are smaller in Expeditions).
In MTG, it's very rare to see any kind of mill type strategies be powerful in limited because they typically only work with a large combination of mill effects. Many of the Runeterra self-mill and enemy-mill cards are fairly efficient on their own, leading to what I think is a worse drafting experience.
It's obviously too early to call for a nerf to any cards (especially because I actually think a lot of these cards/interactions are fun in normal play), but I wouldn't be shocked if rebalancing the draft pool was one of the first things to come out of Bilgewater.
I think he means Detaining an enemy unit with your indestructible unit. That way, there’s no way to remove the indestructible unit without also getting rid of the detained unit inside it.
Yup. Just won me a game in a secret gala mirror. Opponent played tog's treasure that summoned 2 x legendary minions, to summon 2 x Colossus of the Moon. I played a secret and 2 x Blackjack Stunner to send them back to his hand and make them unplayable. Basically worked as a 4 mana plague of death that left me with 2 1:2 minons and a secret. Totally OP
There is little doubt the card is very strong, but your comparison to Plague of Death is misleading. You used each as single target removal not AoE, and rogue has the best single target removal in the game already. That part is crucial: there is a bigger design point at play here with every class getting cards that seem OP compared to what other classes get. Sometimes they actually are OP and need nerfing, but often they are just representations of a class' strengths.
This effect is doubled when there is a condition you have to meet as well, e.g. having a secret in play (especially in a class with very few secrets to choose from), which always entails a more powerful effect. So when you have a conditional battlecry that is also something the class is inherently the best at, it is always going to look crazy strong, but perhaps not actually over powered when everything is taken into consideration.
I finally submitted my card, but I'm gonna give a bit more feedback to everyone who didn't submit.
@Thez
Show Spoiler
Your card is cool and flavourful. I like the version that replaces the stolen card with a Coin.
Only issue, stealing from your opponent's is a Priest mechanic (not Rogue's), but there's no way to change the class without ruining the flavor, which is the strongest point of the card, so…
Oh, I'd also change the expansion, since it doesn't feel like a Classic card at all, especially because of the Discover part. Gadgetzan would be quite fitting. RoS would also be alright.
@meisterz39
Show Spoiler
It looks like an effect that will either be oppresive or irrelevant, so I'm not a very big fan of it.
If you decide to go with it, make sure to upgrade his stats to 7/7 or something like that. I agree he should be expensive in order to prevent it from being too abusable, but there's no need to butcher his stats like that.
@MenacingBagel
Show Spoiler
I think your card is missing some degree of control over which cards you replace. Otherwise, his effect is not much different from "Shuffle three bombs", just like Gnomeferatu was basically a vanilla 2 mana 2/3 unless the game dragged until Fatigue.
@Dermostatic
Show Spoiler
The pun is funny, but I find the card a bit bland.
@Xarkkal
Show Spoiler
I feel like this card would benefit your opponent most of the time, unless he's playing a combo deck. Techs are alright, but I feel this is way too polarizing.
@grumpymonk
Show Spoiler
I preferred your old card, even if it's a tech. If you decide to go with Lurking Shadows, I'd make it cost 2 mana. There are already removal cards for 2 mana, and this leaves a body which will be better than a 1/1 most of the time (even if you have several chances)
@Conduit
Show Spoiler
The new version still feels weak. I'd make it shuffle two or three copies, even at 2 mana.
@anchorm4n
Show Spoiler
I think your previous Agent of Yogg'Saron is better than your new cards, as long as you make it only cast one spell.
@thepowrofcheese
Show Spoiler
Eh, the artwork is kinda ugly. I'd use a different one. The card effect and flavor are still over the top, though.
@Zeratia
Show Spoiler
Odd One Out is the better of the two, even if it doesn't fit Warrior all that much (he doesn't a lot of damaged-based AoE that deals more than 1 damage)
As a matter of fact, I submitted a card very similar to Unholy Justice in the old forum and it was poorly received (it costed 3 mana, so that may be part of its issue too lol)
@Hordaki
Show Spoiler
There are already several cards with the effect of Divine Interventor. So, I'd go with Underbelly Trickster.
Brawl Block: Feeling Adventurous?
Fun brawl! I love brawls like this one with restricted deck building. This gives me hope that they will be adding a restricted deck building format to the game this year.
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
From a balance perspective, I don't think Deep is that much of a problem considering that most of the sea monsters are pretty mediocre most of the game, and other archetypes have bombs to counter it most of the time. But yeah, it still feels bad especially when the high roll. I think a good solution would be to reduce the frequency of sea monsters, since the main problem comes when they barf up 3 huge guys in one turn.
[LEGEND] Wild Taunt Warrior
So far I am at 4 wins and 4 losses. Diamond lvl 10. Not sure if I like this deck yet, will play some more and then edit my comment here :-)
Into the Shadows: The Forgotten Cards
Hey, i was first at something! :D Thanks for the shout-out. I went for something a bit unconventional, i was just browsing through my saved up art and i saw this beauty and decided to make a card for it :) Felt fitting, since dragons hoard loot :)
New Tales of Runeterra Video for Bilgewater - Featuring Miss Fortune & Twisted Fate
TF and Graves are like Bud Spencer and Terence Hill :D They continue their goofy partnership from Leauge, love it! :)
New Rogue Minion - Blackjack Stunner
Yeah, I know. The key word in my post is that it 'worked' as a Plague of Death, ie in that particular instance. I'm not suggesting the card is an aoe every time it's played, rather that, in the situation I described, it cleared the opponent's board without triggering deathrattle / reborn mechanics, and prevented the opponent from being able to replay those cards.
Brawl Block: Feeling Adventurous?
Been seeing a bunch of Galakrond Warlocks. Wiping the floor with them and my Dragon Mage.
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
I was thinking about something like that - redefining the keyword or changing some of the cards slightly. They've done that with Purrsuit of Perfection being converted to Accelerated Purrsuit, but honestly I don't love that. It seems really confusing to have slightly different cards and/or slightly different fundamental rules between formats.
New Tales of Runeterra Video for Bilgewater - Featuring Miss Fortune & Twisted Fate
I can't decide if this is my favorite or not because they were all so good!
Brawl Block: Feeling Adventurous?
Fair warning for anyone using Cobalt Spellkin. If your class has no 1-cost spells in this format, you don't get anything. It is pretty good in Rogue though, since they can only get Praise Galakrond! and/or Dragon's Hoard.
New Tales of Runeterra Video for Bilgewater - Featuring Miss Fortune & Twisted Fate
Finally got around to watching them all, and this is definitely the best one.
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
Yeah, it doesn’t really feel fair for them to get sea monsters out and buffed so early. Maybe Deep should only give +2|+2 in expeditions?
Bamboozle and imprisoned Minion interaction
Minions can no longer transform into Dormant minions that are dependent on a Battlecry effect to awaken (The Darkness or Magtheridon), but they can still transform into Dormant minions that wake up naturally with no player input needed (all the "imprisoned" minions).
Bamboozle and imprisoned Minion interaction
Didn't they say you can no longer transform minions into dormant minions?
Or is my memory failing me.
Anyone else getting STOMPED?
1) Of course people are playing with new champions on the first day of a new expansion.People wanna see the potential of those new cards and all the new synergies.
2) It's also a new experience for you. Since you never played against those decks you don't really know what to expect and how to play around it. Plus with a new expansion decks are gonna get more powerful since there will be more cards to play with.
So just keep on playing and if you see a cool champion combination you can choose to craft those and play with them.
Murloc Paladin ft. Octosari by Dekkster
wow no comments.
This deck si great. i play it from diamond 5 and reached legend for first time in my life with around 58% winrate
Octosari was good. Actually most of the game i didn't use that card, but for some games was the win condition because is a tall monster and the card draw
Anyone else getting STOMPED?
I had a similar experience with my pre-expansion decks. Ultimately I crafted a Sea Monster/Toss deck last night because I wanted to play something new anyway, and that deck felt very powerful. I think it's far from optimal, but I wanted to conserve my wildcards/shards.
That said, I'm not convinced that this is emblematic of some broad power creep in this new expansion (nor does it precluded massive power creep - it's just too early to say). A lot of the new cards and mechanics have pretty obvious builds - the Sea Monster/Toss deck, the Plunder/Face Damage aggro decks, etc., so I suspect some of this is just a combination of people being excited to play new stuff and the new stuff having a lot of obvious synergies. Once some meta starts to emerge, there may be more room to drop in older cards to shore up weaknesses of these new decks, or to counter them entirely.
Budget Face Hunter
Here's what the most common Face Hunter list looks like, which honestly isn't that much more expensive. List only has 4 epics and 1 legendary.
Just remove Timber Wolf, Unleash the Hounds and Wolfrider. Add in Augmented Porcupine, Mok'Nathal Lion and Teron Gorefiend
Wild · Face Hunter · by Xarkkal · 6 years, 6 months ago
Anyone else getting STOMPED?
Last night, my thinking was that I would play around using my pre-expansion decks just to put in some XP into my new region rewards, waiting until after I get some freebees and some inspiration before crafting anything new. I quickly made the following observations:
Did anyone else have comparable experiences?
Assuming these are representative, I have mixed feeling. On the one hand, it's probably good that the expansion cards are all powerful--I started playing M:tG right before Fallen Empire, probably the weakest expansion in their history, and it was overwhelmingly disappointing to be encouraged to buy all those shiny new packs just to find them easily beaten out by older cards and established decks. And it is fair to draw comparisons to trying to use an "evergreen" deck in either Hearthstone or M:tG and being dominated by those using the full library. On the other: I am very surprised that these cards were THAT much more powerful than the core set (assuming it's not just lack of ability on my end), especially considering this is the very first introduction of new cards. It's a significant power spike overnight. And I feel extremely sorry for any new players just getting started, trying to complete quests using starter decks.
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
The addition of Toss and Deep make a lot of sea monster decks feel unusually powerful thanks to the lower deck sizes in Expeditions, and the addition of "draw from your opponent's deck" cards can hit you twice, first by stealing your resources, then by decking you (again because the deck sizes are smaller in Expeditions).
In MTG, it's very rare to see any kind of mill type strategies be powerful in limited because they typically only work with a large combination of mill effects. Many of the Runeterra self-mill and enemy-mill cards are fairly efficient on their own, leading to what I think is a worse drafting experience.
It's obviously too early to call for a nerf to any cards (especially because I actually think a lot of these cards/interactions are fun in normal play), but I wouldn't be shocked if rebalancing the draft pool was one of the first things to come out of Bilgewater.
Invincible card?
I think he means Detaining an enemy unit with your indestructible unit. That way, there’s no way to remove the indestructible unit without also getting rid of the detained unit inside it.
New Rogue Minion - Blackjack Stunner
There is little doubt the card is very strong, but your comparison to Plague of Death is misleading. You used each as single target removal not AoE, and rogue has the best single target removal in the game already. That part is crucial: there is a bigger design point at play here with every class getting cards that seem OP compared to what other classes get. Sometimes they actually are OP and need nerfing, but often they are just representations of a class' strengths.
This effect is doubled when there is a condition you have to meet as well, e.g. having a secret in play (especially in a class with very few secrets to choose from), which always entails a more powerful effect. So when you have a conditional battlecry that is also something the class is inherently the best at, it is always going to look crazy strong, but perhaps not actually over powered when everything is taken into consideration.
Archaeological Deck - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I finally submitted my card, but I'm gonna give a bit more feedback to everyone who didn't submit.
@Thez
Only issue, stealing from your opponent's is a Priest mechanic (not Rogue's), but there's no way to change the class without ruining the flavor, which is the strongest point of the card, so…
Oh, I'd also change the expansion, since it doesn't feel like a Classic card at all, especially because of the Discover part. Gadgetzan would be quite fitting. RoS would also be alright.
@meisterz39
If you decide to go with it, make sure to upgrade his stats to 7/7 or something like that. I agree he should be expensive in order to prevent it from being too abusable, but there's no need to butcher his stats like that.
@MenacingBagel
@Dermostatic
@Xarkkal
@grumpymonk
@Conduit
@anchorm4n
@thepowrofcheese
@Zeratia
As a matter of fact, I submitted a card very similar to Unholy Justice in the old forum and it was poorly received (it costed 3 mana, so that may be part of its issue too lol)
@Hordaki
Legends of Runeterra Adds Login Rewards for the First Week of Logins to Help Player Progression Including a New Deck
I'm new to LoR. Does duplicate protection work just like it does in HS?
The Twitch Prime Capsule for Legends of Runeterra Returns! Free Wildcards and an Expedition Token
no pop up ... i claimed and have same questions ...