So far i havent got a problem against elusives except when they drop empyrean. Elusive units should all be understated and small attack health. Empyrian is just way to strong and if u have dealt with other units and stabilise with 10 or less hp, which happens a lot to me and I end up winning or losing depending of if my opponent drops empyrian specially on curve is ridiculous
So far braum is the most bm emote. Not at the start of the match. But some opponents have used it on a power turn. They do their combo aggro move and just use immediately nraum emote. Very toxic. Some use it at the end when they win. Again toxic. Shen is mostly used at the end most notably by the losing player
At first I was a bit excited since I played WC3 a lot, but when I recently played the old game again I could not find the patience for it anymore being used to much better stuff overall from StarCraft 2, which I also do not play since I only want new campaigns for singleplayer. And then to only get more pixels for your buck would seem a bit...underwhelming. I now see the reviews and I am very surprised they released such a clearly unfinished product, which has upset lots of poeple who bought it.
Holy cow - I went up against Battering Ram for the first time yesterday. I thought the +4 attack effect was temporary, and even then, I felt the card was perhaps a bit too strong. Luckily, I was able to silence it after the 1st turn, so I didn't notice that it was actually a stacking buff. That just feels grossly overpowered to me. As the OP argued, I think Vanguard Firstblade is in an OK spot because it's relatively expensive and you have a realistic chance to kill it in combat or via a cheap removal card early on.
I'd say make Battering Ram's effect only last until the end of the round, and possibly lower its health to 11 or 10 if it needs more fine-tuning.
They could also make it so elusive units cannot block (or at least add it to most of them).
Nothing feels worse than a deck that can beat your face in while also value trade into your attacks.
Deny needs to be nerfed either way, it's just stupid, especially in a game where card draw is an absolute luxury and denying your opponent any crucial play without a downside is just absurd.
So everyone who have been playing Runeterra can't ignore the fact that elusives are a problem specially now as they are everywhere, the main problem with the mechanic is that you can't interact with it unless you are playing elusive units yourself or you deck is mostly spells and you have all niche removals.
It's much harder to deal with when they are buffed and they keep attacking you each round for a lot of damage.
To top it all off Deny is preventing skill/spell answers for the deck.
I posted one idea on one balance thread but I think this specific mechanic needs a dedicated thread.
So what are the options?
1. Make elusive one strike only, this will not only open additional design space but it makes total sense, if you are sneaking around or hard to catch, once you stroke you revealed yourself so you are no longer stealthed, add to Teemo that he regains elusive each round and buff Ezreal's health to compensate.
2. make elusive one turn only like barrier, you play an elusive unit? well you better attack with it/defend because it will lose it at the end of the round- I initially thought about this approach but it would destroy them and it's less thematic.
3. nerfs across the board, nerf all elusive followers hp or attack, make the mechanic have premium cost. because of the inevitable powercreep it's a short term solution
4. Nerf Deny, it will knock down the elusive decks enough.
If you want to see this deck in action, check this video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOR_3hHzn4 ! I appreciate if you guys also subscribe to my channel.
As much as I know it isn't very sportsmanlike, I occasionally use the Braum emote on an opponent who takes foreeever to make their move - especially in situations where they clearly don't have many possible choices, such as in the early turns or in the late game with few cards in hand. I did the same thing in Hearthstone using the "Hello" emote. It lets me vent my frustration in a non-offensive way.
Other than that, I've barely used any emotes during the week I've been playing the game now. They are funny to look at, though. I kind of hope Riot will introduce new champion emotes to replace the existing ones; they could even make them paid cosmetic items.
I think to really get the flavour you need to make it dependent on killing rather than striking. I'm also sceptical about giving him challenger, though I accept that your reasoning was probably that he would kinda suck without it :P
I would say make him a 1/6 with regen - specifically choosing 6 health due to a large number of 5-attack units in the game - and give him only +1 attack each time he kills an enemy. Level up would only require 2 'stacks', would cause him to gain +2 health (no attack), and would give him Challenger in addition to his other effects (because in League his ult grants bonus range on his Q, and you'd assume after getting enough stacks to teamfight he's probably high enough level to drop a few points into Wither).
I like this design fits his league playstyle perfectly can't wait for Shurima to be a playable region.
Regeration (passive), gaining 1 attack Q, challenger on level up W + R having extra range, let's be honest, his E is kind of uninspiring anyway (sorry ap Nasus mains)
It's consistent with previous mechanics, but in no way intuitive.
I agree that it's very unintuitive. Also, I'd argue that it's mostly consistent with other buff effects, but the capitalized "ANYWHERE" in the description could easily be interpreted as a keyword which makes the buff persistent.
Edit: Thanks on the additional pointers on multi-champion summoning. So, more accurately, it can be achieved by summoning the extra champion(s) from anywhere but your hand (because you duplicate champion cards in hand get auto-converted).
Well, yesterday I was feeling bold so I upgraded 2 legendary cards to golden since I had 5K spare dust sitting in my account and some 5K gold which I converted to 30 packs yielding some more dust. So now I am the proud owner of golden versions of Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Archmage Antonidas which both mean a lot to me personally (they are my friends so to speak).
I am not sure I will later think this was a very bad idea when I really need some new card and I can't afford it.
But I now have a clear new goal: get all mage cards to golden and then to get a golden deck (slightly harder probably).
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius for me. The card is fine, but I never had all the required cards for the pimped out warrior deck so I'd invariably lose to the other warriors, at which point there no point in playing the deck, really. And I don't even enjoy paying control warrior, so there's that.
Hah, you'd be amazed. If I'm particularly interested in an expansion, I will theorycraft a huge number of decks (I think last time I did this I had ~14) and I will make damn sure I have all the necessary cards on release day. As a side effect, I spend a huge amount of packs on release day when that happens.
The decks I come up with are rarely, if ever, good (I don't bother posting them because why post something that has a 90+% chance of being garbage?) and it costs me a lot of money... but it's fun, so I do it. The bright side of having a decent job, I suppose.
I think to really get the flavour you need to make it dependent on killing rather than striking. I'm also sceptical about giving him challenger, though I accept that your reasoning was probably that he would kinda suck without it :P
I would say make him a 1/6 with regen - specifically choosing 6 health due to a large number of 5-attack units in the game - and give him only +1 attack each time he kills an enemy. Level up would only require 2 'stacks', would cause him to gain +2 health (no attack), and would give him Challenger in addition to his other effects (because in League his ult grants bonus range on his Q, and you'd assume after getting enough stacks to teamfight he's probably high enough level to drop a few points into Wither).
I think you could actually broaden this question a little to allow for a more engaging conversation. What should champions be?
KANSAS above is entirely correct - what champions are, at present, are simply more powerful followers. They have some limited immunity to effects (since some of the more powerful effects target followers only), but otherwise they're just mana efficient or have powerful effects on them.
Is this enough? The vast majority of current decks run at least one champion in them, but typically that champion isn't particularly thematically associated with the deck - most Elusive decks run Braum, for example, not for any particular association with Freljord (they're mostly Ionian), or Poros (lel), but because he's a strong unit.
The question would then be further expanded by asking that if this isn't enough, then what would be done to change it? Hypothetically, my immediate response would be to impose restrictions on what decks can have champions in them - for example, Braum might require a minimum number of Poro cards and/or Freljord cards before he can be included. And, as an incentive, buff all champions, so as to reward the player for restricting themselves.
To be absolutely clear - I'm not saying this is a good idea. Just that it's an interesting question to think about.
I will agree with most other posters above in that I don't see the card as problematic. Sure, in the right situation, it offers incredible value. But its express purpose is to punish players who overcommit to the board. It's kind of a crucial catch-up mechanic for control decks, which need tools to come back from an early deficit during the late game.
I'd also like to point out that, with its 9-mana cost, The Ruination severely limits what else its user can play during the rest of the round. So assuming that you, as their opponent, don't spend all your mana early that round, you should be able to grow back a decent foothold on the board. And if you've already emptied your hand by that point, you're probably playing an aggressive deck that should've sealed the deal before it got that far.
I'm actually not wholly against the idea of increasing its mana cost, personally. To be clear - I don't think the spell itself is problematic in a vacuum, but by its very nature, it doesn't exist in that vacuum; in its current state it's going to have a permanent game-warping effect on every expansion they subsequently release.
Making it more expensive would throw off the cost-benefit analysis a little, since at a baseline level countering a 4 mana spell with a 3 mana one is a 'win'. But I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing - the most impactful cards are at 6+ mana for the most part, and regardless, is it unreasonable to expect a player to pay a premium for a global disrupt to their opponent's strategy?
Without delving into rebuttals of individual posts:
- I agree that rewards being semi-random is rather off-message for the goal they were apparently going for with the game's reward system, but personally don't have an issue with it
- I would also like to voice a little support for 40D here because goddamn, dude was very clear he was looking for consistency rather than whining about a lack of drops - and people jumped on him worse than most of the actual whine-threads we get around here ¬.¬
They could start by increasing the chance of getting epics.. sometimes I am more excited to open a specific epic than a legendary..
I got around 15K dust stored in duplicates but you never know what they will nerf so I can't press "disenchant all" button and going over all commons one for one is a pain, also I am in high hope Blizzard one day decides to stop being so greedy and increase the dust per common to 10 or decrease the cost of epics.. I can keep dreaming on that..
Then people complain why people net deck so much, can't try stuff myself so I have to copy what works so I am not stuck with a meme deck.
I absolutely agree with everything written here. Everything.
Most of the times (unless it's a Zephrys the Great/Kronx Dragonhoof/Siamat type of card) crafting stuff feels like a gamble in which you have to hope the meta won't change so much that your new toys will be pushed out of playability.
Unless you don't aim for full collection or you have plenty of dust due to continuous preorders, crafting can be punishing and stressful at times, especially if you want to optimize your resources.
For what concerns the thread's topic... Remember Doom in the Tomb? October 2019? Yeah, the night of the event's launch I got really drunk and I thought Flamewaker Cyclone Mage would have totally wrecked the meta. So what? Crafted 2nd copy of Mana Cyclone and Stargazer Luna (a Legendary I always wanted to have but never had the courage to craft because I don't have good Mage stuff and because of what I wrote above).
To be fair none of these cards are bad by any means and sometimes I even use them (Luna is good in OG Odd Mage, now even better with Arcane Amplifier), but yeah after 10 games or so I realized that spending 2000 dust while drunk is not as good as you might think.
I think last week is done--there was a timer on it, implying everyone rolls over at the same second.
Can confirm, I tested this when I started playing Tuesday night. Won 1 match against AI, and the game showed the XP flowing into my (unopened) level 12 vault. However, when I actually went to open the vault, those 50 XP were not included; instead, after receiving my rewards, the new vault was now at 50 XP. So you definitely can't keep leveling your vault past the Tuesday deadline. On the bright side, you don't get penalized in case you forget to open your vault right away; any XP you accrue will already be counted for the new week's vault.
The Elusive problem and solutions
So far i havent got a problem against elusives except when they drop empyrean. Elusive units should all be understated and small attack health. Empyrian is just way to strong and if u have dealt with other units and stabilise with 10 or less hp, which happens a lot to me and I end up winning or losing depending of if my opponent drops empyrian specially on curve is ridiculous
What is the Shen emote supposed to convey?
So far braum is the most bm emote. Not at the start of the match. But some opponents have used it on a power turn. They do their combo aggro move and just use immediately nraum emote. Very toxic. Some use it at the end when they win. Again toxic. Shen is mostly used at the end most notably by the losing player
anyone hyped for the wc3 remaster?
At first I was a bit excited since I played WC3 a lot, but when I recently played the old game again I could not find the patience for it anymore being used to much better stuff overall from StarCraft 2, which I also do not play since I only want new campaigns for singleplayer. And then to only get more pixels for your buck would seem a bit...underwhelming. I now see the reviews and I am very surprised they released such a clearly unfinished product, which has upset lots of poeple who bought it.
I have sill my hopes up for Diablo 4 though...
That moment you know you have a bad idea
I once crafted a warrior legendary Dr. Boom, Mad Genius (what was I thinking my god) but I was happy when they nerfed it so I could dust it again.
Noxus: Battering Ram is way too overpowered.
Holy cow - I went up against Battering Ram for the first time yesterday. I thought the +4 attack effect was temporary, and even then, I felt the card was perhaps a bit too strong. Luckily, I was able to silence it after the 1st turn, so I didn't notice that it was actually a stacking buff. That just feels grossly overpowered to me. As the OP argued, I think Vanguard Firstblade is in an OK spot because it's relatively expensive and you have a realistic chance to kill it in combat or via a cheap removal card early on.
I'd say make Battering Ram's effect only last until the end of the round, and possibly lower its health to 11 or 10 if it needs more fine-tuning.
The Elusive problem and solutions
They could also make it so elusive units cannot block (or at least add it to most of them).
Nothing feels worse than a deck that can beat your face in while also value trade into your attacks.
Deny needs to be nerfed either way, it's just stupid, especially in a game where card draw is an absolute luxury and denying your opponent any crucial play without a downside is just absurd.
The Elusive problem and solutions
So everyone who have been playing Runeterra can't ignore the fact that elusives are a problem specially now as they are everywhere, the main problem with the mechanic is that you can't interact with it unless you are playing elusive units yourself or you deck is mostly spells and you have all niche removals.
It's much harder to deal with when they are buffed and they keep attacking you each round for a lot of damage.
To top it all off Deny is preventing skill/spell answers for the deck.
I posted one idea on one balance thread but I think this specific mechanic needs a dedicated thread.
So what are the options?
1. Make elusive one strike only, this will not only open additional design space but it makes total sense, if you are sneaking around or hard to catch, once you stroke you revealed yourself so you are no longer stealthed, add to Teemo that he regains elusive each round and buff Ezreal's health to compensate.
2. make elusive one turn only like barrier, you play an elusive unit? well you better attack with it/defend because it will lose it at the end of the round- I initially thought about this approach but it would destroy them and it's less thematic.
3. nerfs across the board, nerf all elusive followers hp or attack, make the mechanic have premium cost. because of the inevitable powercreep it's a short term solution
4. Nerf Deny, it will knock down the elusive decks enough.
So what do you guys think?
That moment you know you have a bad idea
Crafted Octosarifor a deathrattle roque tempo deck this season... My first craft was The Last Kaleidosaur btw because I got The Voraxx
Make-Your-Own 4-mana 7/7 Embiggen Druid
If you want to see this deck in action, check this video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOR_3hHzn4 ! I appreciate if you guys also subscribe to my channel.
What is the Shen emote supposed to convey?
As much as I know it isn't very sportsmanlike, I occasionally use the Braum emote on an opponent who takes foreeever to make their move - especially in situations where they clearly don't have many possible choices, such as in the early turns or in the late game with few cards in hand. I did the same thing in Hearthstone using the "Hello" emote. It lets me vent my frustration in a non-offensive way.
Other than that, I've barely used any emotes during the week I've been playing the game now. They are funny to look at, though. I kind of hope Riot will introduce new champion emotes to replace the existing ones; they could even make them paid cosmetic items.
That moment you know you have a bad idea
Crafting a Legendary because of a stupid Idea/it seems cool is always the first Thing I do during Xpac-Launch.
So, yeah... Waxadred, Murozond the Infinite, Chameleos, Zerek, Master Cloner, The Marsh Queen, Emeriss, Temporus, Madame Lazul, Vereesa Windrunner, Bazaar Burglary, etc.
But I regret Nothing!
Favorite champions not yet in the game?
I like this design fits his league playstyle perfectly can't wait for Shurima to be a playable region.
Regeration (passive), gaining 1 attack Q, challenger on level up W + R having extra range, let's be honest, his E is kind of uninspiring anyway (sorry ap Nasus mains)
Duplicate Champion question
I agree that it's very unintuitive. Also, I'd argue that it's mostly consistent with other buff effects, but the capitalized "ANYWHERE" in the description could easily be interpreted as a keyword which makes the buff persistent.
Edit: Thanks on the additional pointers on multi-champion summoning. So, more accurately, it can be achieved by summoning the extra champion(s) from anywhere but your hand (because you duplicate champion cards in hand get auto-converted).
That moment you know you have a bad idea
Well, yesterday I was feeling bold so I upgraded 2 legendary cards to golden since I had 5K spare dust sitting in my account and some 5K gold which I converted to 30 packs yielding some more dust. So now I am the proud owner of golden versions of Luna's Pocket Galaxy and Archmage Antonidas which both mean a lot to me personally (they are my friends so to speak).
I am not sure I will later think this was a very bad idea when I really need some new card and I can't afford it.
But I now have a clear new goal: get all mage cards to golden and then to get a golden deck (slightly harder probably).
That moment you know you have a bad idea
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius for me. The card is fine, but I never had all the required cards for the pimped out warrior deck so I'd invariably lose to the other warriors, at which point there no point in playing the deck, really. And I don't even enjoy paying control warrior, so there's that.
That moment you know you have a bad idea
Hah, you'd be amazed. If I'm particularly interested in an expansion, I will theorycraft a huge number of decks (I think last time I did this I had ~14) and I will make damn sure I have all the necessary cards on release day. As a side effect, I spend a huge amount of packs on release day when that happens.
The decks I come up with are rarely, if ever, good (I don't bother posting them because why post something that has a 90+% chance of being garbage?) and it costs me a lot of money... but it's fun, so I do it. The bright side of having a decent job, I suppose.
Favorite champions not yet in the game?
I think to really get the flavour you need to make it dependent on killing rather than striking. I'm also sceptical about giving him challenger, though I accept that your reasoning was probably that he would kinda suck without it :P
I would say make him a 1/6 with regen - specifically choosing 6 health due to a large number of 5-attack units in the game - and give him only +1 attack each time he kills an enemy. Level up would only require 2 'stacks', would cause him to gain +2 health (no attack), and would give him Challenger in addition to his other effects (because in League his ult grants bonus range on his Q, and you'd assume after getting enough stacks to teamfight he's probably high enough level to drop a few points into Wither).
Are we OK with decks having no champions!?
I think you could actually broaden this question a little to allow for a more engaging conversation. What should champions be?
KANSAS above is entirely correct - what champions are, at present, are simply more powerful followers. They have some limited immunity to effects (since some of the more powerful effects target followers only), but otherwise they're just mana efficient or have powerful effects on them.
Is this enough? The vast majority of current decks run at least one champion in them, but typically that champion isn't particularly thematically associated with the deck - most Elusive decks run Braum, for example, not for any particular association with Freljord (they're mostly Ionian), or Poros (lel), but because he's a strong unit.
The question would then be further expanded by asking that if this isn't enough, then what would be done to change it? Hypothetically, my immediate response would be to impose restrictions on what decks can have champions in them - for example, Braum might require a minimum number of Poro cards and/or Freljord cards before he can be included. And, as an incentive, buff all champions, so as to reward the player for restricting themselves.
To be absolutely clear - I'm not saying this is a good idea. Just that it's an interesting question to think about.
"The Ruination" is a horrible concept for a card. Balance issues.
I will agree with most other posters above in that I don't see the card as problematic. Sure, in the right situation, it offers incredible value. But its express purpose is to punish players who overcommit to the board. It's kind of a crucial catch-up mechanic for control decks, which need tools to come back from an early deficit during the late game.
I'd also like to point out that, with its 9-mana cost, The Ruination severely limits what else its user can play during the rest of the round. So assuming that you, as their opponent, don't spend all your mana early that round, you should be able to grow back a decent foothold on the board. And if you've already emptied your hand by that point, you're probably playing an aggressive deck that should've sealed the deal before it got that far.
Non-Mana Deny Nerf Idea
I'm actually not wholly against the idea of increasing its mana cost, personally. To be clear - I don't think the spell itself is problematic in a vacuum, but by its very nature, it doesn't exist in that vacuum; in its current state it's going to have a permanent game-warping effect on every expansion they subsequently release.
Making it more expensive would throw off the cost-benefit analysis a little, since at a baseline level countering a 4 mana spell with a 3 mana one is a 'win'. But I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing - the most impactful cards are at 6+ mana for the most part, and regardless, is it unreasonable to expect a player to pay a premium for a global disrupt to their opponent's strategy?
Not a fan of random upgrades in chests
Without delving into rebuttals of individual posts:
- I agree that rewards being semi-random is rather off-message for the goal they were apparently going for with the game's reward system, but personally don't have an issue with it
- I would also like to voice a little support for 40D here because goddamn, dude was very clear he was looking for consistency rather than whining about a lack of drops - and people jumped on him worse than most of the actual whine-threads we get around here ¬.¬
Crafting Runeterra Decks on a Budget: Exploring an Elusive Meta
I dont see the point here, because we always are happy when someone block with an elusive minion, its a chance to kill it !
That moment you know you have a bad idea
I absolutely agree with everything written here. Everything.
Most of the times (unless it's a Zephrys the Great/Kronx Dragonhoof/Siamat type of card) crafting stuff feels like a gamble in which you have to hope the meta won't change so much that your new toys will be pushed out of playability.
Unless you don't aim for full collection or you have plenty of dust due to continuous preorders, crafting can be punishing and stressful at times, especially if you want to optimize your resources.
For what concerns the thread's topic... Remember Doom in the Tomb? October 2019? Yeah, the night of the event's launch I got really drunk and I thought Flamewaker Cyclone Mage would have totally wrecked the meta. So what? Crafted 2nd copy of Mana Cyclone and Stargazer Luna (a Legendary I always wanted to have but never had the courage to craft because I don't have good Mage stuff and because of what I wrote above).
To be fair none of these cards are bad by any means and sometimes I even use them (Luna is good in OG Odd Mage, now even better with Arcane Amplifier), but yeah after 10 games or so I realized that spending 2000 dust while drunk is not as good as you might think.
Some Advices for 1st Day and Week of Open Beta
Can confirm, I tested this when I started playing Tuesday night. Won 1 match against AI, and the game showed the XP flowing into my (unopened) level 12 vault. However, when I actually went to open the vault, those 50 XP were not included; instead, after receiving my rewards, the new vault was now at 50 XP. So you definitely can't keep leveling your vault past the Tuesday deadline. On the bright side, you don't get penalized in case you forget to open your vault right away; any XP you accrue will already be counted for the new week's vault.
So, how long is Deny gonna stay at 3 mana?
Probably gonna get hit with the next nerf patch.
Either that or the rest of Ionia.
Deny should be 4-5 mana at least. It's ridiculous that you can basically cancel an entire turn for your enemy while only using your spell mana.