I think it'd be fine if Lord J was reworked along the lines of other hero cards. I realise that heroes/death knights didn't exist when Jaraxxus was printed, but now that they do it'd make a lot more sense if he were reframed as one because that's functionally how the card works. It'd get rid of a bunch of fringe weaknesses of Jaraxxus like: 1. Weakness to Sacrificial Pact. 2. Losing all your armor when you enter Jaraxxus mode(!). 3. getting Jaraxxus pulled by Dirty Rat et al. Points 1 & 2 would go a long way toward making Jaraxxus playable, even if he retains the punishing 15 hp health cap.
Even if we disregard sac pact, I think Lord J would be too weak for 2019 hearthstone without addressing the armor issue, because it's so much easier to burst someone for 15. Any deck with Zephyris is just 5 damage off, after all.
While Zephrys definitely makes Jaraxxus weaker it's not the reason it's unplayable.
At this point in time, going to 15 health and getting a 3-attack weapon for 9 mana just isn't good. You're basically putting yourself into OTK range and there's very few instances where going to 15 will save you.
Furthermore, being at 9-mana means you can't Hero power immediately which means taking turn to actually develop pressure.
Before Jaraxxus ever sees play again he would
a) need to be buffed to 8-mana to actually be on a comparable level to the modern standard of value/tempo or
b) receive some support that makes it actually worth playing him (such as giving demons rush or Lifesteal, Jaina style)
If Jaraxxus didn't see play because of Zephrys, he would've seen play in Rise of Shadows (which he did not).
The problem with Jaraxxus is that Warlock is terrible, and has been all of 2019. The only viable Warlock deck is Zoolock, and that's worse than Murloc Shaman/Pally and friggin' Zoo Priest of all things. Blizzard has been trying to push this nonsense card cycle thing with Plot Twist and has not worked. If Jaraxxus were to see play, Warlock needs cards to compete with Control Warrior, or at the very least contest aggro decks.
I am very against buffing Lord Jaraxxus by the way. I'm against buffing any Classic card that saw lots of play, especially a win condition. If you buff a card to the level of stuff that's obviously a little too good, then you now have a card that's too good and will never rotate out. With Thaurisan and N'zoth coming back next week, maybe Jaraxxus has enough good stuff to see play again. Maybe one day we'll get a card that reduces the cost of in-hand demons or something and Jaraxxus becomes really good for an entire Standard meta. I dunno. Buffing is certainly too hasty, though.
First scenario: Sacrificial Pact does not exist - now for Lord Jaraxxus to be played you need a worthy Standard Warlock deck that can actually benefit from him, so let's say a Midrange archetype. However, I don't see one currently and I don't expect it to pop up right now even if Sacrificial Pact is removed from the game. Maybe a good MidLock can be built with the upcoming return of Imp Gang Boss, but in a world where you can get King Krush or even Ragnaros the Firelord for 7 mana + another body, I don't see Lord jaraxxus to be played for 9 mana without having an immediate impact on the game (you technically just pass your turn hoping not to die, which is really unlikely unless you're that fare ahead not to actually need Jaraxxus to win). The biggest problem is that it caps your health total to 15, which is incredibly low since you can't even go back to 30 like with Alexstrasza.
Second scenario: Sacrificial Pact cannot target Lord Jaraxxus - based on what I previously said, it's not that jaraxxus is OP and Sac Pact is holding him back from being played in every single deck. Right now Jaraxxus wouldn't see play even if Sac Pact wasn't card. Moreover, if you change this interaction you'll render a very situational card even less reliable.
I'll make an example, even though it's the opposite case, but express very well what I want to say: Holy Wrath is an incredibly bad card with 0% chance to see play in a "normal" paladin deck. 5 mana draw a card and deal some damage is not good, moreover since you have Hammer of Wrath that (on average) does the same for one less mana. The only upside of said spell is the interaction with Shirvallah, the Tiger (and Molten Giant before Rastakhan's Rumble), which can win you games (OTK Pala has been brought several times to several tournaments, so it's more than a simple meme). Now, imagine a person saying: "well, Shirvallah, the Tiger totally breaks Holy Wrath; the Devs should make it so that this spell won't be able to target face." The best answer would be: "that's a single interaction that won't stay in Standard forever and that exploits a singular card that wouldn't see any play otherwise."
That's exactly what Lord Jaraxxus/[Hearthstone Card (Sacrifical Pact) Not Found] is: it's not that the former doesn't see play because of the latter (and because of Zephrys the Great), or better, it's not just because of that.
The major problem is just that it's a bad card and there are tons of better options: if you want him to see play, you have to make it better overall so that people will accept the risk of being Sac Pact when they play it; and right now, Jaraxxus is by far not worth it.
The main problem of Lord Jaraxxus is that 15 HP isn't a safe place anymore.
Sacrificial pact should be nerfed, because it's a stupid interaction IMHO. But then again, Lord Jaraxxus would be a weak card.
He needs to be buffed to be playable again: for example, putting his mana cost to (8) would give him the ability to use the hero power the turn he is used, gaining some strenght and becoming nearer to the powerlevel of the other hero cards (all of them have a battlecry of sort).
Here are my thoughts, followed by a few questions:
My thoughts:
Lord Jaraxxus is one of the best cards ever printed by Hearthstone. It inspired the creation of all the hero cards that came in the Frozen Throne. It has the best emote of the game during Christmas. Plus, Lord Jaraxxus was Ben Brode's favorite card. Even though Hearthstone created an instant kill through a card, Sacrificial Pact, people still played Lord Jaraxxus. Because the risk was worth the play.
Now Lord Jaraxxus is again a deleted card because [Hearthstone Card (zephyrs the great) Not Found] produces Sacrificial Pact and instant kills Lord Jaraxxus. This fact will be true forever in Wild.
I pmed frostyfeet about this last night and he got back to me about half an hour later.
He said there has been talk in the long term of implementing a trading system that allows you to tracks users' reputations etc., but that will be for further down the line, presumably because it would take quite a bit of work.
In the short term, he's contacted the mod team with a view to investigating a solution for the current 80g Trading thread.
In the mean time I guess we just tread carefully: trade at our own risk, ideally arrange to complete your opponent's trade first and, if not, always ask to see your opponent's quest before trading. Failing that, just give your 80g to a friend :)
So I'm just gonna try to predcit how the 23 Wild cards will impact all 9 classes. I'm mostly doing this to see what applications other people think of and if I missed certain combos. Anyways, here goes.
Druid
Quest Druid has gotten another very powerful tool with Kun the Forgotten King. At face value, he doesn't look very immpressive, seeing how it'S still just a 0-mana 7/7 at turn 10 only...but thanks to the Quest you also get 10 Armor, which can be very relevant in a lot of matchups, not to mentiont that the body will usually demand an answer fro your opponent. Even if he ends up not being included in the deck (although I don't see why he wouldn't) you're probably still going to have to account for him appearing through Discovery
Astral Communion will probably not have any impact. I don't know why they gave us this over something potentially more interesting. There's just not even enough big cards that would warrant running this. At best you could run it in a Quest deck and hope you don't brick after dumping your hand. One saving grace might be Overflow, but I doubt it will be enough.
Ragnaros the Firelord, Sylvanas Windrunner and [Hearthstone Card (N'zoth the Corruptor) Not Found] could find their way into Quest Decks, but there is little overall synergy.
Emperor Thaurissan on the other hand, might have some applications, mainly if one were to give [Hearthstone Card (Gonk the Raptor) Not Found] another shot. With Gonk dead you can discount Mad Summoner and double Witching Hour + any number of attack buffs (Claw and Pounce mostly) and actually pull off the combo in one turn without having to RNG the Dreampetal Florist that being said, this is still a 5-7 card combo that requires you to play and kill off a 7-drop (that also cannot be transformed), making it even more inconsistent than Malygos currently is. Not to mention the relatively high amount of combo pieces makes the Quest shell much weaker.
Mage
Now Mage is a pretty interesting case since it'S currently on life support. People don't seem to be that excited about Babbling Book, but I think it could be crucial in making more tempo oriented Mage builds (including Secret Mage) more viable, purely on the basis of being an actual 1-drop for a class that currently has none.
Flamewaker on the other hand feels a bit overhyped. Granted, we can go machinegun with a Sorcerer's Apprentice and a Mana Cyclone for reload, but would be more of a combo deck, not unlike the previous Cylone Mage which isn't all that great at the moment. I still believe Flamewaker is good enough to pick Mage up from the dumpster, but I don't think we're gonna get higher than tier 2.
Regular Tempo Mage also seems a bit weak at the moment...at least too weak to rely entirely on Flamewaker to carry it. Keep in mind that unless you are absolutely certain he won't get removed, you can't actually play Flamewaker on 3, and you need at least apprentice, Ray of Frost, Cyclone and Elemental Evocation to really pop off...in a deck that can't tutor any of the pieces.
Aside from the class cards Emperor Thaurissan is a strong addition to Highlander Mage (since you're usually holding a big hand and it bridges the 7-mana gap in some cases). Furthermore, N'zoth allows for another board refill by just running [Hearthstone Card (Karthut Defender) Not Found], Rotten Applebaum and Sylvanas Windrunner. Ragnaros might find a way in too, but I suspect that would be a bit greedy.
Whatever happens, Mage is certainly going to be much better than it is now, even if just by a little.
Paladin:
Now it's pretty obvious that Secret Paladin is going to return. Both Mysterious Challenger (effectively Subject 9 on steroids) and Avenge (the best secret to keep a lead on the board) should be enough to make the deck at lest playable. The draw issue is pretty much solved, although including both Challenger and Bellringer Sentry will warrant quite a large amount of Secrets. Maybe MC makes its way into Highlander Paladin as well with a Secret heavy build (read: every single available Secret) although I feel like Octosari is still a safer choice.
Much less talked about is the potential Control Paladin, that could "return". Paladin has always been the best class (next to Warlock) to use N'zoth, but it just never took off. A N'zoth that resurrects Tirion Fordring, Sylvanas and Karthut Defenders is probably the best turn 10 play for any lategame deck. What's different this time around is the existence of the Holy Wrath + [Hearthstone Card (Shirvallah the Tiger) Not Found] combo. With just 3 cards you add a 25 damage burst into a control deck, but instead of going the regular way of mowing through your deck we play it slow and grind out the opponent until we finish him off. You can go pretty light on the minion side and just use the best defensive options and a bit of draw with most of the removal spells. The challenge would be to properly balance the amount of removal and actual minions. The biggest problem with this idea would be that most other classes will just end up running N'zoth as well and it's questionable whether the addition of Tirion is enough of an upside to make a difference.
N'zoth could also work in a minion focussed Midrange/lategame deck, maybe even Highlander (just don't run Octosari or you will find a very unfortunate end).
Hunter
Hunter got some very solid additions. Lock and Load is probably not going to be competitive, but makes a very spell heavy Hunter at least worth trying. I can't see it taking up a slot in Highlander however. Value Generation isn't exactly needed for Hunter at the moment.
Call of the Wild on the other hand is way more interesting. It occupies a very interesting mana slot at 9, meaning that you can play it as a set up for Zul'jin which is especially relevant since it mitigates the downside of having to play Zul'jin for tempo/defense without having used Unleash the Beast first. With just this and a few Secrets you will have enough value to stay in the game. Not to mention the card isn't a bad topdeck later on at gives you 5-damage reach.
N'zoth and Sylvanas are also interesting. On one hand you could build a deathrattle centered Highlander build. In this slower variant Emperor Thaurissan might get good value as well. Next to that there's the possibility of reviving mech Deathrattle. Nine Lives is already incredible and Sylvanas onnly makes it better. Going light on the actual deathrattles to get the best possible outcome from N'zoth would also allow for more defensive tools. The main argument for this deck would be that N'zoth being popular makes grindy decks better and requires more value to beat them, which current Highlander Hunter probably can't.
Shaman
I see no real use for Thing from Below. There's just not enough totems at the moment to get any benefit out of it. Evolve on the other hand fits perfectly into all Shaman decks running Mogu Fleshshaper. The combo of Fleshshaper + Mutate is already busted and Evolve just doubles the consistency (next to being even more generally useful in token decks than Mutate).
Shaman can also make good use out of N'zot since Shudderwock essentially gives you a second one. Combine it with lackey generators and Hagatha the Witch you have a solid lategame plan to grind most decks into dust...the question is whether this is a better grinding gameplan than other N'zoth decks.
Rogue
Swashburglar is great for both Quest and Quest-less thief Rogue. It essentially makes curving into a Underbelly Fence much easier without the tempo loss of Pilfer (except against other Rogues). As a result it makes the Burgle package a much better inclusion in just about any possible Rogue build. [Hearthstone Card (Shaku the Collector) Not Found] on the other hand is pretty much garbage. It's a slower Blink Fox with stealth + soft taunt being the only upside. Not great when you have to consider that getting a 0-cost Vendetta on turn 3 might be more important.
Once again we have Deathrattle shenanigans. [Hearthstone Card (Anka the Buried) Not Found] allows for shenanigans with Sylvanas (and Anubisath Warbringer), while Shadowstep and [Hearthstone Card (Togwaggle's Scheme's) Not Found] enables complete N'zoth lockdown. The resulting deck might be unbearably slow and bricky, but it's gonna be loads of fun when it pays off. You thought infinite Tess Greymane was a Warrior killer? Let's see how many Sylvanas the can deal with before they give up.
Priest
I'll be honest, I have no idea how Priest is going to turn out. Vol'jin doesn't really have a purpose at the moment. Priest doesn't run 2-damage removal so there's really no point to include him anywhere. Lightbomb is a good additional boardclear which will make the slower Quest/Resurrect builds a bit better against aggro and N'zoth and Sylvanas won't hurt either in that kind of deck. Once again the question remains which class makes the best use of N'zoth.
Warlock
Gul'dan got shafted again. Renounce Darkness is for memes only, obviously, although Zephrys could probably be of use in there (if you get lucky enough to not get too many duplicates, and let's be honest that's kind of why you play the deck in the first place).
Zoo get Imp Gang Boss, which is still one of the most powerful standalone 3-drops in the game which will imrpove their winrate but won't change their palystyle. Highlander Zoo certainly appreciates it.
N'zoth Sylvanas and Ragnaros are very interesting additions to Plot Twist Warlock as both Fel Lord Betrug and Dollmaster Dorian can get incredibly value from them (they can be used to quickly charge your N'zoth with Karthut defenders or Sylvanas). Combine it with Mechanical Whelp and there's a decent strategy. Unfortunately it has to compete with all other potential N'zoth grinders, where it will most likely lose out based on the fact that it hits fatigue way earlier. Personally I'm going to revive my Anubisath-HIr'eek-Omega Agent Handbuff build, because why not, it's not like it's getting any better.
Warrior
Not terribly exciting. Bloodhoof Brave is a potentially cool card for Aggro/Tempo Warrior (specifcally Highlander), but it's probably not proactive enough. Taunt Warrior has unfortunately been nerfed through the discovery nerf, so I don't see that picking up steam all of a sudden. Varian Wrynn could potentially make it viable, but with Tomb Warden and [Hearthstone Card (Frigthened Flunky) Not Found] having pretty much essential battlecries it makes no sense to risk pulling them out on the field.
I also don't believe in Big Warrior. Warrior has no ramp or mana cheating and waiting until turn 10 to actually do stuff is just...not realistic.
Funnily enough, Control Warrior is probably also the least likely class to make good use out of N'zoth. having no class deathrattles means at best you're gonna get a Karthut wall with Sylvanas in a deck that wins the lategame through other means. It might still end up running N'zoth out of necessity just to not get outvalued by all other Deathrattle decks.
I really wish we got [Hearthstone Card (Alexstraza's Champion) Not Found] instead.
Miscellaneous
I currently see no real good use for The Curator. There aren't any good murlocs or dragons outside of tribal decks. Nightmare Amalgam technically gives you two guaranteed draws, but that's not really enough to slot into any deck. The only thing I can come up with would be a) Midrange Dragon Paladin with Murmy and a Mech Package or b) Hooktusk Rogue with the same principle (which is just an inferior version of Tempo/thief Rogue anyways, so no point).
I also can't really imagine Ragnaros in too many decks. He's a good card and there's a reason why he was Hall of Famed, but at this point in the game most decks are so heavily specialized that they have simply no space for a card that doesn't actually synergize with their gameplan. The only exception are Highlander decks of course. Hunter will probably find a place for Rag, purely on the basis of not having an 8-drop, and Mage will probably enjoy having any proactive options. He might be too greedy for Paladin though (although he could be an interesting choice in Quest Paladin....if that deck wasn't dead).
Thaurissan probably has way more combos than I listed, but I don't think most of them will amount to anything more than memes. He's probably best as just a Highlander 6-drop in Mage to smooth out the curve.
Closing thoughts
Writing this I kinda got worried that the meta might become a very one dimensionnal N'zoth slugfest for a while until the best N'zoth class emerges to kick all others off the table...who will then proceed to build the most aggressive decks possible to kill them before turn 10.
Whatever happens, i'm glad that this event exists, even if just to showcase how broken stuff can get with the right tools. If the meta goes completely haywiere at least we only have to wait until November for it to return back to normal. Pretty sure after being N'zoth-locked for 3 weeks straight will make Control Warrior look fun and interactive in comparison.
Tbh I am never using that thread again, got scammed once and it's enough if I need anyone to do the 80 gold quest I will just trade with my friends who normally play with me with theirs when they have it. Prefer to gain half the gold than to give it to jerks.
Yes i also only trade or even just play if only i have it with my friends because they do the same if they have it and i don't!
I personally am a sucker for meme cards/decks and my play-style reflects that! What I was conveying with my pun (and thought OP said the same), was that thematically the card doesn't belong in the darkest event of the year, while Mysterious Challenger fits perfectly the description. I don't care about powerhouses and how strong card additions interact with the meta, I'm just all about fun and staying in character for the limited-time event.
I vote to have this list added to the top of the thread ASAP. I just got scammed myself, and it turns out the battletag was on that blacklist.
I sent the first challenge, intending it to be a proof challenge, but they accepted instead of declined. I feel like a complete fucking idiot for not backing out of the deck selection.
Sorry to hear that m8. Remember the game doesn't count for the quest unless one of you is below 15 health when it ends, so you can concede any time before then and retain your quest.
Never knew that. I just thought that, like me, my opponent wanted to play out the game.
I'm not sure trading is worth it anymore. I play on NA, and lately it's been taking forever to find an opponent to trade with. Last time I think it took two weeks. Now that I think about it, I was probably too eager to get it out of the way, as it had already been three days, and that left me more vulnerable to getting scammed.
There's a specific thread on Reddit for quest trade purposes too: when you get one, you should create a post both here and there.
Tbh I am never using that thread again, got scammed once and it's enough if I need anyone to do the 80 gold quest I will just trade with my friends who normally play with me with theirs when they have it. Prefer to gain half the gold than to give it to jerks.
That's totally comprehensible, but it's really a shame that you have to get less than you could just because some players are scumbags that want to fool others. Even if I didn't do anything to cause that, I feel sorry for you.
Tbh I am never using that thread again, got scammed once and it's enough if I need anyone to do the 80 gold quest I will just trade with my friends who normally play with me with theirs when they have it. Prefer to gain half the gold than to give it to jerks.
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
I think it'd be fine if Lord J was reworked along the lines of other hero cards. I realise that heroes/death knights didn't exist when Jaraxxus was printed, but now that they do it'd make a lot more sense if he were reframed as one because that's functionally how the card works. It'd get rid of a bunch of fringe weaknesses of Jaraxxus like: 1. Weakness to Sacrificial Pact. 2. Losing all your armor when you enter Jaraxxus mode(!). 3. getting Jaraxxus pulled by Dirty Rat et al. Points 1 & 2 would go a long way toward making Jaraxxus playable, even if he retains the punishing 15 hp health cap.
Even if we disregard sac pact, I think Lord J would be too weak for 2019 hearthstone without addressing the armor issue, because it's so much easier to burst someone for 15. Any deck with Zephyris is just 5 damage off, after all.
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
While Zephrys definitely makes Jaraxxus weaker it's not the reason it's unplayable.
At this point in time, going to 15 health and getting a 3-attack weapon for 9 mana just isn't good. You're basically putting yourself into OTK range and there's very few instances where going to 15 will save you.
Furthermore, being at 9-mana means you can't Hero power immediately which means taking turn to actually develop pressure.
Before Jaraxxus ever sees play again he would
a) need to be buffed to 8-mana to actually be on a comparable level to the modern standard of value/tempo or
b) receive some support that makes it actually worth playing him (such as giving demons rush or Lifesteal, Jaina style)
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
Jarxxus is playable in arena
I'm only 2-0 so far, but I love this deck!
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
If Jaraxxus didn't see play because of Zephrys, he would've seen play in Rise of Shadows (which he did not).
The problem with Jaraxxus is that Warlock is terrible, and has been all of 2019. The only viable Warlock deck is Zoolock, and that's worse than Murloc Shaman/Pally and friggin' Zoo Priest of all things. Blizzard has been trying to push this nonsense card cycle thing with Plot Twist and has not worked. If Jaraxxus were to see play, Warlock needs cards to compete with Control Warrior, or at the very least contest aggro decks.
I am very against buffing Lord Jaraxxus by the way. I'm against buffing any Classic card that saw lots of play, especially a win condition. If you buff a card to the level of stuff that's obviously a little too good, then you now have a card that's too good and will never rotate out. With Thaurisan and N'zoth coming back next week, maybe Jaraxxus has enough good stuff to see play again. Maybe one day we'll get a card that reduces the cost of in-hand demons or something and Jaraxxus becomes really good for an entire Standard meta. I dunno. Buffing is certainly too hasty, though.
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
Okay, let's discuss it one step at time.
First scenario: Sacrificial Pact does not exist - now for Lord Jaraxxus to be played you need a worthy Standard Warlock deck that can actually benefit from him, so let's say a Midrange archetype. However, I don't see one currently and I don't expect it to pop up right now even if Sacrificial Pact is removed from the game. Maybe a good MidLock can be built with the upcoming return of Imp Gang Boss, but in a world where you can get King Krush or even Ragnaros the Firelord for 7 mana + another body, I don't see Lord jaraxxus to be played for 9 mana without having an immediate impact on the game (you technically just pass your turn hoping not to die, which is really unlikely unless you're that fare ahead not to actually need Jaraxxus to win). The biggest problem is that it caps your health total to 15, which is incredibly low since you can't even go back to 30 like with Alexstrasza.
Second scenario: Sacrificial Pact cannot target Lord Jaraxxus - based on what I previously said, it's not that jaraxxus is OP and Sac Pact is holding him back from being played in every single deck. Right now Jaraxxus wouldn't see play even if Sac Pact wasn't card. Moreover, if you change this interaction you'll render a very situational card even less reliable.
I'll make an example, even though it's the opposite case, but express very well what I want to say: Holy Wrath is an incredibly bad card with 0% chance to see play in a "normal" paladin deck. 5 mana draw a card and deal some damage is not good, moreover since you have Hammer of Wrath that (on average) does the same for one less mana. The only upside of said spell is the interaction with Shirvallah, the Tiger (and Molten Giant before Rastakhan's Rumble), which can win you games (OTK Pala has been brought several times to several tournaments, so it's more than a simple meme).
Now, imagine a person saying: "well, Shirvallah, the Tiger totally breaks Holy Wrath; the Devs should make it so that this spell won't be able to target face." The best answer would be: "that's a single interaction that won't stay in Standard forever and that exploits a singular card that wouldn't see any play otherwise."
That's exactly what Lord Jaraxxus/[Hearthstone Card (Sacrifical Pact) Not Found] is: it's not that the former doesn't see play because of the latter (and because of Zephrys the Great), or better, it's not just because of that.
The major problem is just that it's a bad card and there are tons of better options: if you want him to see play, you have to make it better overall so that people will accept the risk of being Sac Pact when they play it; and right now, Jaraxxus is by far not worth it.
King Phaoris Big Warrior
You're very welcome! And thank YOU for checking out the deck :D
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
The main problem of Lord Jaraxxus is that 15 HP isn't a safe place anymore.
Sacrificial pact should be nerfed, because it's a stupid interaction IMHO. But then again, Lord Jaraxxus would be a weak card.
He needs to be buffed to be playable again: for example, putting his mana cost to (8) would give him the ability to use the hero power the turn he is used, gaining some strenght and becoming nearer to the powerlevel of the other hero cards (all of them have a battlecry of sort).
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Tag: BallzyMagee#1752
Region: NA
Trade: Yes, you go first
done
Lord Jaraxxus is a dead card
Here are my thoughts, followed by a few questions:
My thoughts:
Lord Jaraxxus is one of the best cards ever printed by Hearthstone. It inspired the creation of all the hero cards that came in the Frozen Throne. It has the best emote of the game during Christmas. Plus, Lord Jaraxxus was Ben Brode's favorite card. Even though Hearthstone created an instant kill through a card, Sacrificial Pact, people still played Lord Jaraxxus. Because the risk was worth the play.
Then came Bloodreaver Gul'dan which outclassed Lord Jaraxxus and players had to wait two years to play Lord Jaraxxus.
Now Lord Jaraxxus is again a deleted card because [Hearthstone Card (zephyrs the great) Not Found] produces Sacrificial Pact and instant kills Lord Jaraxxus. This fact will be true forever in Wild.
A few questions:
If Sacrificial Pact is nerfed, would Lord Jaraxxus see play?
What are the chances that this change may occur in light of the accessibility of Sacrificial Pact to all highlander decks?
Thank you for your time. I would have posted this in a card discussion area for Lord Jaraxxus but there is no place to discuss Lord Jaraxxus.
Hallow's End Meta predictions
I'm not that experienced in HS to make an addition to this. Just wanted to say thanks for the time and effort put into this post.
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
I pmed frostyfeet about this last night and he got back to me about half an hour later.
He said there has been talk in the long term of implementing a trading system that allows you to tracks users' reputations etc., but that will be for further down the line, presumably because it would take quite a bit of work.
In the short term, he's contacted the mod team with a view to investigating a solution for the current 80g Trading thread.
In the mean time I guess we just tread carefully: trade at our own risk, ideally arrange to complete your opponent's trade first and, if not, always ask to see your opponent's quest before trading. Failing that, just give your 80g to a friend :)
Hallow's End Meta predictions
So I'm just gonna try to predcit how the 23 Wild cards will impact all 9 classes. I'm mostly doing this to see what applications other people think of and if I missed certain combos. Anyways, here goes.
Druid
Quest Druid has gotten another very powerful tool with Kun the Forgotten King. At face value, he doesn't look very immpressive, seeing how it'S still just a 0-mana 7/7 at turn 10 only...but thanks to the Quest you also get 10 Armor, which can be very relevant in a lot of matchups, not to mentiont that the body will usually demand an answer fro your opponent. Even if he ends up not being included in the deck (although I don't see why he wouldn't) you're probably still going to have to account for him appearing through Discovery
Astral Communion will probably not have any impact. I don't know why they gave us this over something potentially more interesting. There's just not even enough big cards that would warrant running this. At best you could run it in a Quest deck and hope you don't brick after dumping your hand. One saving grace might be Overflow, but I doubt it will be enough.
Ragnaros the Firelord, Sylvanas Windrunner and [Hearthstone Card (N'zoth the Corruptor) Not Found] could find their way into Quest Decks, but there is little overall synergy.
Emperor Thaurissan on the other hand, might have some applications, mainly if one were to give [Hearthstone Card (Gonk the Raptor) Not Found] another shot. With Gonk dead you can discount Mad Summoner and double Witching Hour + any number of attack buffs (Claw and Pounce mostly) and actually pull off the combo in one turn without having to RNG the Dreampetal Florist that being said, this is still a 5-7 card combo that requires you to play and kill off a 7-drop (that also cannot be transformed), making it even more inconsistent than Malygos currently is. Not to mention the relatively high amount of combo pieces makes the Quest shell much weaker.
Mage
Now Mage is a pretty interesting case since it'S currently on life support. People don't seem to be that excited about Babbling Book, but I think it could be crucial in making more tempo oriented Mage builds (including Secret Mage) more viable, purely on the basis of being an actual 1-drop for a class that currently has none.
Flamewaker on the other hand feels a bit overhyped. Granted, we can go machinegun with a Sorcerer's Apprentice and a Mana Cyclone for reload, but would be more of a combo deck, not unlike the previous Cylone Mage which isn't all that great at the moment. I still believe Flamewaker is good enough to pick Mage up from the dumpster, but I don't think we're gonna get higher than tier 2.
Regular Tempo Mage also seems a bit weak at the moment...at least too weak to rely entirely on Flamewaker to carry it. Keep in mind that unless you are absolutely certain he won't get removed, you can't actually play Flamewaker on 3, and you need at least apprentice, Ray of Frost, Cyclone and Elemental Evocation to really pop off...in a deck that can't tutor any of the pieces.
Aside from the class cards Emperor Thaurissan is a strong addition to Highlander Mage (since you're usually holding a big hand and it bridges the 7-mana gap in some cases). Furthermore, N'zoth allows for another board refill by just running [Hearthstone Card (Karthut Defender) Not Found], Rotten Applebaum and Sylvanas Windrunner. Ragnaros might find a way in too, but I suspect that would be a bit greedy.
Whatever happens, Mage is certainly going to be much better than it is now, even if just by a little.
Paladin:
Now it's pretty obvious that Secret Paladin is going to return. Both Mysterious Challenger (effectively Subject 9 on steroids) and Avenge (the best secret to keep a lead on the board) should be enough to make the deck at lest playable. The draw issue is pretty much solved, although including both Challenger and Bellringer Sentry will warrant quite a large amount of Secrets. Maybe MC makes its way into Highlander Paladin as well with a Secret heavy build (read: every single available Secret) although I feel like Octosari is still a safer choice.
Much less talked about is the potential Control Paladin, that could "return". Paladin has always been the best class (next to Warlock) to use N'zoth, but it just never took off. A N'zoth that resurrects Tirion Fordring, Sylvanas and Karthut Defenders is probably the best turn 10 play for any lategame deck. What's different this time around is the existence of the Holy Wrath + [Hearthstone Card (Shirvallah the Tiger) Not Found] combo. With just 3 cards you add a 25 damage burst into a control deck, but instead of going the regular way of mowing through your deck we play it slow and grind out the opponent until we finish him off. You can go pretty light on the minion side and just use the best defensive options and a bit of draw with most of the removal spells. The challenge would be to properly balance the amount of removal and actual minions. The biggest problem with this idea would be that most other classes will just end up running N'zoth as well and it's questionable whether the addition of Tirion is enough of an upside to make a difference.
N'zoth could also work in a minion focussed Midrange/lategame deck, maybe even Highlander (just don't run Octosari or you will find a very unfortunate end).
Hunter
Hunter got some very solid additions. Lock and Load is probably not going to be competitive, but makes a very spell heavy Hunter at least worth trying. I can't see it taking up a slot in Highlander however. Value Generation isn't exactly needed for Hunter at the moment.
Call of the Wild on the other hand is way more interesting. It occupies a very interesting mana slot at 9, meaning that you can play it as a set up for Zul'jin which is especially relevant since it mitigates the downside of having to play Zul'jin for tempo/defense without having used Unleash the Beast first. With just this and a few Secrets you will have enough value to stay in the game. Not to mention the card isn't a bad topdeck later on at gives you 5-damage reach.
N'zoth and Sylvanas are also interesting. On one hand you could build a deathrattle centered Highlander build. In this slower variant Emperor Thaurissan might get good value as well. Next to that there's the possibility of reviving mech Deathrattle. Nine Lives is already incredible and Sylvanas onnly makes it better. Going light on the actual deathrattles to get the best possible outcome from N'zoth would also allow for more defensive tools. The main argument for this deck would be that N'zoth being popular makes grindy decks better and requires more value to beat them, which current Highlander Hunter probably can't.
Shaman
I see no real use for Thing from Below. There's just not enough totems at the moment to get any benefit out of it. Evolve on the other hand fits perfectly into all Shaman decks running Mogu Fleshshaper. The combo of Fleshshaper + Mutate is already busted and Evolve just doubles the consistency (next to being even more generally useful in token decks than Mutate).
Shaman can also make good use out of N'zot since Shudderwock essentially gives you a second one. Combine it with lackey generators and Hagatha the Witch you have a solid lategame plan to grind most decks into dust...the question is whether this is a better grinding gameplan than other N'zoth decks.
Rogue
Swashburglar is great for both Quest and Quest-less thief Rogue. It essentially makes curving into a Underbelly Fence much easier without the tempo loss of Pilfer (except against other Rogues). As a result it makes the Burgle package a much better inclusion in just about any possible Rogue build. [Hearthstone Card (Shaku the Collector) Not Found] on the other hand is pretty much garbage. It's a slower Blink Fox with stealth + soft taunt being the only upside. Not great when you have to consider that getting a 0-cost Vendetta on turn 3 might be more important.
Once again we have Deathrattle shenanigans. [Hearthstone Card (Anka the Buried) Not Found] allows for shenanigans with Sylvanas (and Anubisath Warbringer), while Shadowstep and [Hearthstone Card (Togwaggle's Scheme's) Not Found] enables complete N'zoth lockdown. The resulting deck might be unbearably slow and bricky, but it's gonna be loads of fun when it pays off. You thought infinite Tess Greymane was a Warrior killer? Let's see how many Sylvanas the can deal with before they give up.
Priest
I'll be honest, I have no idea how Priest is going to turn out. Vol'jin doesn't really have a purpose at the moment. Priest doesn't run 2-damage removal so there's really no point to include him anywhere. Lightbomb is a good additional boardclear which will make the slower Quest/Resurrect builds a bit better against aggro and N'zoth and Sylvanas won't hurt either in that kind of deck. Once again the question remains which class makes the best use of N'zoth.
Warlock
Gul'dan got shafted again. Renounce Darkness is for memes only, obviously, although Zephrys could probably be of use in there (if you get lucky enough to not get too many duplicates, and let's be honest that's kind of why you play the deck in the first place).
Zoo get Imp Gang Boss, which is still one of the most powerful standalone 3-drops in the game which will imrpove their winrate but won't change their palystyle. Highlander Zoo certainly appreciates it.
N'zoth Sylvanas and Ragnaros are very interesting additions to Plot Twist Warlock as both Fel Lord Betrug and Dollmaster Dorian can get incredibly value from them (they can be used to quickly charge your N'zoth with Karthut defenders or Sylvanas). Combine it with Mechanical Whelp and there's a decent strategy. Unfortunately it has to compete with all other potential N'zoth grinders, where it will most likely lose out based on the fact that it hits fatigue way earlier. Personally I'm going to revive my Anubisath-HIr'eek-Omega Agent Handbuff build, because why not, it's not like it's getting any better.
Warrior
Not terribly exciting. Bloodhoof Brave is a potentially cool card for Aggro/Tempo Warrior (specifcally Highlander), but it's probably not proactive enough. Taunt Warrior has unfortunately been nerfed through the discovery nerf, so I don't see that picking up steam all of a sudden. Varian Wrynn could potentially make it viable, but with Tomb Warden and [Hearthstone Card (Frigthened Flunky) Not Found] having pretty much essential battlecries it makes no sense to risk pulling them out on the field.
I also don't believe in Big Warrior. Warrior has no ramp or mana cheating and waiting until turn 10 to actually do stuff is just...not realistic.
Funnily enough, Control Warrior is probably also the least likely class to make good use out of N'zoth. having no class deathrattles means at best you're gonna get a Karthut wall with Sylvanas in a deck that wins the lategame through other means. It might still end up running N'zoth out of necessity just to not get outvalued by all other Deathrattle decks.
I really wish we got [Hearthstone Card (Alexstraza's Champion) Not Found] instead.
Miscellaneous
I currently see no real good use for The Curator. There aren't any good murlocs or dragons outside of tribal decks. Nightmare Amalgam technically gives you two guaranteed draws, but that's not really enough to slot into any deck. The only thing I can come up with would be a) Midrange Dragon Paladin with Murmy and a Mech Package or b) Hooktusk Rogue with the same principle (which is just an inferior version of Tempo/thief Rogue anyways, so no point).
I also can't really imagine Ragnaros in too many decks. He's a good card and there's a reason why he was Hall of Famed, but at this point in the game most decks are so heavily specialized that they have simply no space for a card that doesn't actually synergize with their gameplan. The only exception are Highlander decks of course. Hunter will probably find a place for Rag, purely on the basis of not having an 8-drop, and Mage will probably enjoy having any proactive options. He might be too greedy for Paladin though (although he could be an interesting choice in Quest Paladin....if that deck wasn't dead).
Thaurissan probably has way more combos than I listed, but I don't think most of them will amount to anything more than memes. He's probably best as just a Highlander 6-drop in Mage to smooth out the curve.
Closing thoughts
Writing this I kinda got worried that the meta might become a very one dimensionnal N'zoth slugfest for a while until the best N'zoth class emerges to kick all others off the table...who will then proceed to build the most aggressive decks possible to kill them before turn 10.
Whatever happens, i'm glad that this event exists, even if just to showcase how broken stuff can get with the right tools. If the meta goes completely haywiere at least we only have to wait until November for it to return back to normal. Pretty sure after being N'zoth-locked for 3 weeks straight will make Control Warrior look fun and interactive in comparison.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next up, a Rogue Legendary.
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
Yes i also only trade or even just play if only i have it with my friends because they do the same if they have it and i don't!
And there are lots of scammers out there!
Hallow's End 2019 - Leaked Cards Confirmed, 3 New Brawls, Arena Rotation, Legendary Quests, Login Rewards
I personally am a sucker for meme cards/decks and my play-style reflects that! What I was conveying with my pun (and thought OP said the same), was that thematically the card doesn't belong in the darkest event of the year, while Mysterious Challenger fits perfectly the description. I don't care about powerhouses and how strong card additions interact with the meta, I'm just all about fun and staying in character for the limited-time event.
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
There's a specific thread on Reddit for quest trade purposes too: when you get one, you should create a post both here and there.
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
That's totally comprehensible, but it's really a shame that you have to get less than you could just because some players are scumbags that want to fool others.
Even if I didn't do anything to cause that, I feel sorry for you.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Stop fucking posting on this thread: you just want to scam people! There's literally a thread going on for your behavior.
People like you, who take advantage of others' ingenuity, are a disgrace for this community.
I wonder why no admin has taken a position yet, since we have multiple testimonies and even proofs of his scam attempts!!
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
Tbh I am never using that thread again, got scammed once and it's enough if I need anyone to do the 80 gold quest I will just trade with my friends who normally play with me with theirs when they have it. Prefer to gain half the gold than to give it to jerks.
80g Quest Trading Fraudster: Vegetaz (HaVoC#2426)
I just wanted to bump this up because Vegetaz (Battletag: HaVoC#2426) posted again in the Trading Thread!
Be careful as long as the list is not added to the Official Trading Post!
Hallow's End 2019 - Leaked Cards Confirmed, 3 New Brawls, Arena Rotation, Legendary Quests, Login Rewards
Oh, nice!
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: HaVoC#2426
Region: EU
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first
Meme of the Week - End of All Things
I second that!
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
BattleTag: ZackTheWho#2100
Region: EU
Trade only: Yes