I like this nerf. I didn't want the effect of the card to change. I also don't want warrior to be so strong that it defines the meta and everything is a warrior counter.
This is a super strong nerf to the tempo of control warrior but not value, and I think that is the perfect way to nerf the deck imo. It's supposed to be a powerful late game card, having to pass an entire turn.
When you're under pressure you usually try to set up a boom + shield slam on 8 or boom + hero power on 9. This means you have to play a 9 mana heal 7 or hold a shield slam till ten and even still that is so slow. It's a lot harder to get boom up against decks that can compound pressure. Aggro decks still lose to warrior because they don't even really need boom to beat aggro anyway. Control decks still get grinded out. Combo decks are going to be stronger against warrior now because the boom tempo coming out later gives your counter pressure game a lot less time to work. Midrange decks will be stronger against control warrior because they run a top end on the deck to keep up the pressure but they won't be favored. I think this seems like a pretty good balance on paper.
I think this changes the way you build and play control warrior a bit. For one thing you aren't keeping this card in any match except the mirror now. You might not be able to play so much early game because you are going to have to stretch games out with some mid game cards before you get boom,. The way control warrior is currently built is it's a bunch of dominant early game control tools and then you let boom carry the rest of the way but now I think you'll need some other late game stuff to get you to a point where you can play boom, but i'm not sure. You might have to omega assembly before ten more now just for more board presence, lowering late game value.
I also think of the three classes that were nerfed, warrior was weakened the least and benefits the most by mage being nerfed.
unrelated but I wish all control warrior players could come together and agree to just not run Archivist. It would just make the deck better in every other matchup and the mirror wouldn't come down to RNG. I don't want to run two 9 mana cards. Archivist might get cut because of this nerf now that I think about it. but if the mirror is common it will stay in because arms race mentality.
You're incorrect in your assumptions of how the front page picks decks. Votes do matter to some degree, but it isn't everything. All decks have an internal score we call the "hot score" and is periodically recalculated.
I completely agree though that we need to do more for deck discoverability. One thing that I implemented early on was automatic flagging of decks that have guides written for them. This is linked in our navigation as the first item under Decks to encourage people to not only write guides but also make it so much easier to find good decks. https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?has_guide=true
I've talked internally about doing something with showcasing a random deck with a guide on the front page or also allowing staff to be able to "recommend" decks that would gain increased internal scores to get them to the front page faster. We've also got some work to do with making it more obvious that people should be voting on decks which may end up helping some other decks see the light.
There is a lot more work we can do with decks and it'll be something that gets improved down the line. There's also plenty of places we haven't been automatically linking decks yet which can help with it too. Right now though, the focus is on some other tools that we want to get out for the community (which should help with decks too) and then we can wrap back around and start working more on the core of decks.
There's a surprisingly dynamic meta in this brawl. At low wins you've got players who don't know what they're doing, as usual. Up your MMR a bit more and you into the full tempo decks with their mechwarpers, cannons and murlocs like shaman. Once I got here, I noticed a lot of the power cards are 3/3s or just 3 HP, so I made a control priest with a ton of well fitting AOE. This was working great until I reached an higher MMR where people were playing slower (even some control) decks with bigger minions and my AOE didn't line up well
I guess the next step is to play OTK decks. I saw a pretty cool hunter one on the way up: Mechwarper, corpse widow, boar, sn1p-sn4p
Finally a brawl where Splitting Axe will shine?? :-)
I haven't seen anyone play this yet, but it seems like a great idea. Ectomancy is very useful in my Warlock deck and Splitting Axe is both cheaper and gives you a weapon.
Unfortunately I don't have it in my collection and as it's an epic, it's a bit too expensive to craft for a brawl (I don't think it will see much play outside the brawl). I did craft a second Golakka Crawler that I was missing; that was dust well-spent in my opinion.
The current algorithm for selecting decks on the front page seems to be to sort by votes and then decide tie breakers in favor of the oldest deck. This leads to the same decks being shown for a long time. Even more so since the decks that are on the front page get more views and therefore more votes.
This is not ideal for visitors, since they have to go digging deeper into the site to discover other decks. And it's a bit discouraging for people submitting decks, since it is hard to get visibility.
My suggestion would be to show random decks, weighted by votes. So a deck with 20 votes would show up more often than a deck with 2 votes, but both have a chance of being displayed. It also means that every time a visitor loads the front page, they're likely to see at least some new decks.
This might be my favorite brawl of all time. So many different tactics, love the early removal and counter play. Here's what I've been using successfully, it relies on Conceal and Cannon Barrage for big damage:
I took your cannons + conceal idea and took it in a different direction by adding lots of minions that summon other minions, to maximize the number of shots fired:
I'm using only one copy of Cannon Barrage because often the game is already decided on turn 6. Conceal is super useful even without Barrage, so I kept two copies of that.
The extra arms nerf is waaaaay too early. Priest had been garbage tier for months, and has basically never had a good tempo deck. As soon as they get a good deck, and a tempo one at that, they get nerfed after 2 weeks ... While warrior gets to be insanely OP for months on end. Yeah, seems totally fair.
I have made some tweaks to the deck myself. As some suggested, the early game plays of leper gnome and goblin bomb were not worth it. I replaced them with a couple adds that were a bit less wea
extra arms revert is so stupid. how is +4+4 worth 6 mana how is +2+2 worth 3 mana especially since you need a minion on board first. it was perfect at 2 mana.
So there’s a feeling among some players that dominant decks should be castrated to unplayability. I’m much more for precision nerfs that allow the deck to continue but with a lower % of wins. So my Assesment....
Dr.Boom: seems spot on. Eliminates the hero power on top turn which can be ugly. It delays boom a few turns. Still strong, I expect control warrior to still be tier 1, just with more breathing room for other classes to close the gap. 5/5
Extra Arms: I have to assume they internally tested changes and came up with this. Priest is strong, but not dominant. If the meta included more silence the deck would suffer a lot. I know they don’t want to be constantly adjusting card power often but I felt this was a pre-nerf. Maybe warranted but I really would like to see the meta without this first. 2/5
Conjurer’s Calling: This felt like the low hanging fruit. The giant cards always seem to be a problem in standard. A trip to the HOF seems like a more permanent solution. The power level of CC seems ok for wild when it rotates in its un-nerfed form. There was also some cool ways to use it early game that are now dead. It’ll be an effective bandaid but coupled with the Luna nerf it could kill the deck. 2.5/5
Luna’s Pocket: Would trying it at 6 mana really have been too much before reverting it back to useless meme status. We know it’s not competitive at 7. I think the suspected 6 might still be a problem but with CC at 5 now there isnt too much in the way of over the top tempo plays. 1/5 for too much at once
Barnes: I know there’s a strong feeling that Big Priest has oppressed wild for too long. Those who feel that way wanted the deck gutted. Instead they went specifically after the decks ability to create a disgusting early board. I think this will be more effective than others give it credit. 1 mana nerfs have gutted decks in the past, think this will not be that bad but will lessen the power against aggro a lot. 5/
This puts big priest in a very vulnerable state before they can have an insane early turn. The deck is still powerful, but it’s now much more vulnerable to aggro and lets shaman/mage have an extra turn to get hex/sheep style spells. I think the ‘moar nerfz’ Crowd is looking for this deck to be murdered and buried out back. I can understand the feeling, especially for wild focused players who’ve played against this for literal years. But in terms of balance it feels correct
Card Nerf - Luna's Pocket Galaxy
So mage players will go back to life as they knew it before the LPG buff.
Card Nerf - Conjurer's Calling
This nerf does nothing really. Mages have enough tricks to make the extra turn a non factor. The real nerf should have been to HoF the Giants.
Making Highlander Paladin Work
So I was inspired by Kibler playing his own Highlander Paladin, and decided to put my own spin on it:
Wild · Highlander Paladin · by CableKnight · 7 years ago
Anyone else having any success with this archetype?
Card Nerf - Barnes
Love it, I can finally dust my Barnes 😍
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
Try to tech in anti secret cards, for example the new SI.
Card Nerf - Dr. Boom, Mad Genius
Warrior main.
I like this nerf. I didn't want the effect of the card to change. I also don't want warrior to be so strong that it defines the meta and everything is a warrior counter.
This is a super strong nerf to the tempo of control warrior but not value, and I think that is the perfect way to nerf the deck imo. It's supposed to be a powerful late game card, having to pass an entire turn.
When you're under pressure you usually try to set up a boom + shield slam on 8 or boom + hero power on 9. This means you have to play a 9 mana heal 7 or hold a shield slam till ten and even still that is so slow. It's a lot harder to get boom up against decks that can compound pressure. Aggro decks still lose to warrior because they don't even really need boom to beat aggro anyway. Control decks still get grinded out. Combo decks are going to be stronger against warrior now because the boom tempo coming out later gives your counter pressure game a lot less time to work. Midrange decks will be stronger against control warrior because they run a top end on the deck to keep up the pressure but they won't be favored. I think this seems like a pretty good balance on paper.
I think this changes the way you build and play control warrior a bit. For one thing you aren't keeping this card in any match except the mirror now. You might not be able to play so much early game because you are going to have to stretch games out with some mid game cards before you get boom,. The way control warrior is currently built is it's a bunch of dominant early game control tools and then you let boom carry the rest of the way but now I think you'll need some other late game stuff to get you to a point where you can play boom, but i'm not sure. You might have to omega assembly before ten more now just for more board presence, lowering late game value.
I also think of the three classes that were nerfed, warrior was weakened the least and benefits the most by mage being nerfed.
unrelated but I wish all control warrior players could come together and agree to just not run Archivist. It would just make the deck better in every other matchup and the mirror wouldn't come down to RNG. I don't want to run two 9 mana cards. Archivist might get cut because of this nerf now that I think about it. but if the mirror is common it will stay in because arms race mentality.
Rotating decks shown on front page
You're incorrect in your assumptions of how the front page picks decks. Votes do matter to some degree, but it isn't everything. All decks have an internal score we call the "hot score" and is periodically recalculated.
I completely agree though that we need to do more for deck discoverability. One thing that I implemented early on was automatic flagging of decks that have guides written for them. This is linked in our navigation as the first item under Decks to encourage people to not only write guides but also make it so much easier to find good decks.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/?has_guide=true
I've talked internally about doing something with showcasing a random deck with a guide on the front page or also allowing staff to be able to "recommend" decks that would gain increased internal scores to get them to the front page faster. We've also got some work to do with making it more obvious that people should be voting on decks which may end up helping some other decks see the light.
There is a lot more work we can do with decks and it'll be something that gets improved down the line. There's also plenty of places we haven't been automatically linking decks yet which can help with it too. Right now though, the focus is on some other tools that we want to get out for the community (which should help with decks too) and then we can wrap back around and start working more on the core of decks.
The Great Amalgamation!
There's a surprisingly dynamic meta in this brawl. At low wins you've got players who don't know what they're doing, as usual. Up your MMR a bit more and you into the full tempo decks with their mechwarpers, cannons and murlocs like shaman. Once I got here, I noticed a lot of the power cards are 3/3s or just 3 HP, so I made a control priest with a ton of well fitting AOE. This was working great until I reached an higher MMR where people were playing slower (even some control) decks with bigger minions and my AOE didn't line up well
I guess the next step is to play OTK decks. I saw a pretty cool hunter one on the way up: Mechwarper, corpse widow, boar, sn1p-sn4p
The Great Amalgamation!
I haven't seen anyone play this yet, but it seems like a great idea. Ectomancy is very useful in my Warlock deck and Splitting Axe is both cheaper and gives you a weapon.
Unfortunately I don't have it in my collection and as it's an epic, it's a bit too expensive to craft for a brawl (I don't think it will see much play outside the brawl). I did craft a second Golakka Crawler that I was missing; that was dust well-spent in my opinion.
Rotating decks shown on front page
The current algorithm for selecting decks on the front page seems to be to sort by votes and then decide tie breakers in favor of the oldest deck. This leads to the same decks being shown for a long time. Even more so since the decks that are on the front page get more views and therefore more votes.
This is not ideal for visitors, since they have to go digging deeper into the site to discover other decks. And it's a bit discouraging for people submitting decks, since it is hard to get visibility.
My suggestion would be to show random decks, weighted by votes. So a deck with 20 votes would show up more often than a deck with 2 votes, but both have a chance of being displayed. It also means that every time a visitor loads the front page, they're likely to see at least some new decks.
The Great Amalgamation!
I took your cannons + conceal idea and took it in a different direction by adding lots of minions that summon other minions, to maximize the number of shots fired:
Tavern Brawl · Pirate Rogue · by Zelgadis · 7 years ago
I'm using only one copy of Cannon Barrage because often the game is already decided on turn 6. Conceal is super useful even without Barrage, so I kept two copies of that.
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
The extra arms nerf is waaaaay too early. Priest had been garbage tier for months, and has basically never had a good tempo deck. As soon as they get a good deck, and a tempo one at that, they get nerfed after 2 weeks ... While warrior gets to be insanely OP for months on end. Yeah, seems totally fair.
Highlander Face Hunter is Rediculous
Glad you’re liking it. I am loving it. Gonna publish my Highlander Token Druid soon. Also doing well with it. (Also uses mechs and goblin bomb cards)
Highlander Face Hunter
I have made some tweaks to the deck myself. As some suggested, the early game plays of leper gnome and goblin bomb were not worth it. I replaced them with a couple adds that were a bit less wea
The Blue Portal
My favorite card back to date.
Card Nerf - Barnes
What's the point? It's been this way for literal YEARS already.
Vulpera Scoundrel
Can the mystery choice be a minion or spell from another class? I don't get it and I always pick the spell.
Gurubashi Chicken + Bees TTK
Is it a surprise that this chicken is so deadly? It has an ax on it's beak!
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
extra arms revert is so stupid. how is +4+4 worth 6 mana how is +2+2 worth 3 mana especially since you need a minion on board first. it was perfect at 2 mana.
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
Guess we have to wait for a year+ of data before something is done about secret mage in wild. Since SoU, it’s become more prominent than BP
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
So there’s a feeling among some players that dominant decks should be castrated to unplayability. I’m much more for precision nerfs that allow the deck to continue but with a lower % of wins. So my Assesment....
Dr.Boom: seems spot on. Eliminates the hero power on top turn which can be ugly. It delays boom a few turns. Still strong, I expect control warrior to still be tier 1, just with more breathing room for other classes to close the gap. 5/5
Extra Arms: I have to assume they internally tested changes and came up with this. Priest is strong, but not dominant. If the meta included more silence the deck would suffer a lot. I know they don’t want to be constantly adjusting card power often but I felt this was a pre-nerf. Maybe warranted but I really would like to see the meta without this first. 2/5
Conjurer’s Calling: This felt like the low hanging fruit. The giant cards always seem to be a problem in standard. A trip to the HOF seems like a more permanent solution. The power level of CC seems ok for wild when it rotates in its un-nerfed form. There was also some cool ways to use it early game that are now dead. It’ll be an effective bandaid but coupled with the Luna nerf it could kill the deck. 2.5/5
Luna’s Pocket: Would trying it at 6 mana really have been too much before reverting it back to useless meme status. We know it’s not competitive at 7. I think the suspected 6 might still be a problem but with CC at 5 now there isnt too much in the way of over the top tempo plays. 1/5 for too much at once
Barnes: I know there’s a strong feeling that Big Priest has oppressed wild for too long. Those who feel that way wanted the deck gutted. Instead they went specifically after the decks ability to create a disgusting early board. I think this will be more effective than others give it credit. 1 mana nerfs have gutted decks in the past, think this will not be that bad but will lessen the power against aggro a lot. 5/
Solving the Saviors of Uldum Gameboard Easter Egg
I can't do this :( idk why
Card Nerf - Barnes
This puts big priest in a very vulnerable state before they can have an insane early turn. The deck is still powerful, but it’s now much more vulnerable to aggro and lets shaman/mage have an extra turn to get hex/sheep style spells. I think the ‘moar nerfz’ Crowd is looking for this deck to be murdered and buried out back. I can understand the feeling, especially for wild focused players who’ve played against this for literal years. But in terms of balance it feels correct
The Shielded Conquest Format - Exploring Different Lineup Strategies
Most important pro to add to the list ; it won't be the previous boring mono-class Master format
This change is welcome!
Five Card Nerfs Coming Next Week Including Dr. Boom, Mad Genius & Barnes!
Dumb to double nerf mage. Haven't they learned from when they pulled that crap with druid and killed the class
Guess we're back to yet another expansion with Hunter on top