Tolin's Goblet from Heistbaron Toggle has been how I got a hand full of pogohoppers. So it seems like getting 7 in your hand isn't so bad. Also that Noz legendary could be an easy way to get all 7. Still need to kill noz before the combo though.
I always say if I haven't used a deck in over a month I can just let it go. This deck does not spark joy me, bye, bye. This way I can add newer decks without issue.
Easy enough for Rogue. I've played a decent amount of Pogo rogue and I've had 7x in my hand in a lot of occasions. Seems like an alt win condition for the pogo archtype. There are a few more classes that could pull it off in standard but rogue's the obvious current choice. Warlock would be good with Glinda but having her survive a turn is always tough at best.
That issue I was having with items on the navbar wrapping to two lines is back again since you added the bell. I suppose if you don't want to just increase the width, you could chop long usernames, and replace the end with an ellipsis.
Damn, you're one character too long. Guess we'll have to rename you.
I'll find a fix for it, I'm sorry for not checking with your name exactly. It'll all be so much better once we get the site name out of the nav, giving us some extra space.
I think we need more cards to make this work for each class. I have seen some classes getting cards that copy stuff, like warrior, paladin and warlock. I expect all classes will get some way to get this combo working, otherwise why make it a neutral.
But copying is really dangerous and can lead to all kinds of OTK's. So I am really curious where they are heading with this card.
I think outof.cards should have a section on the linguistics of Hearthstone. There's already a great glossary, but it doesn't outline the in-game keywords (Rush, Overkill). I couldn't find that information anywhere. It would also be cool to have a graph charting the usage of keywords over multiple expansion releases.
That issue I was having with items on the navbar wrapping to two lines is back again since you added the bell. I suppose if you don't want to just increase the width, you could chop long usernames, and replace the end with an ellipsis.
I know you need all seven on board, here is how it goes :
Draw 2 Mogu Cultists, Herald Volazj, Shadow Word : Death and 2 Séances (Shadow Visions copy maybe) along with a Drakkari Enchanter and Emperor Thaurissan.
Play DE with Emperor to have 4 mana Volazj, 2 0 mana Séances, 2 0 mana Cultists and 1 mana SWD.
Play a Cultist, Séance twice, play 1 mana Cultist twice, Herald for 4 mana, SWD Herald for 1 mana and play last Cultist, totalling 7 mana for the entire combo.
Dropping Emperor+DE has the same cost as dropping Tak Noz, a Cultist and casting a Toggwaggle Scheme, except Scheme needs 7 turns in hand and you need to draw 3 cards.
And as a Priest, you are better at surviving than Rogues are.
Alternatively, you can use Gargoyles instead of DE which can serve as a tempo play unlike DE, and the combo cost will rise to 11 meaning you only need one coin, But you will need Emperor in both cases.
It's lovely that we've finally gotten an effect like this for Combo cards. For such a flavorful, unique mechanic, it's odd that we've never had a Combo-focused archetype. And while I don't think that this card will cause that to happen in a competitive way, it does create the option of creating a deck all around Combo cards. That sounds fun!
Regards to competitive viability, similar effects have seen play many times over. Lyra the Sunshard is the obvious comparison, but Underbelly Angler, Lock and Load, and Lifeweaver are very similar, while Mana Cyclone, Gazlowe, and Exotic Mountseller are somewhat similar. Point being that, at the least, this type of card proves to be a possible build-around. All of these cards have seen extensive theorycrafting. The gatekeepers to viable deck-crafting seem to be cost, card pool, and activation ease. Exotic Mountseller and Gazlowe are far harder to use due to their high cost. Lyra also has a higher cost, but Priest has plenty of small spells and cards like Radiant Elemental to discount them. Thus, Lyra turns small spells over efficiently, quickly turning the board around for cheap while also generating valuable spells for later. Mana Cyclone does much the same, trading small spells for more small spells and for larger spells, with the added benefit of increasing hand size for Mountain Giant (a playstyle not too accessible to Rogue, sadly). Not to mention that the Cyclone is a discountable Mage Elemental. Underbelly Angler's activation cards cannot be discounted, but it is 2 mana and murlocs are mostly 1 or 2 mana, making it much the same as the other two. Mana Cyclone, Underbelly Angler, and Lyra the Sunshard, the best of this group, are all easily activated and have a desirable pool of random cards to offer that can be played on the same turn. Unlike them, cards like Gazlowe have an undesirable pool to draw from - while 1-mana spare parts can be discounted and played over his 6-mana body, the minions he generates are quite random and usually not playable right away, leading to a lackluster turn. On the opposite side of the coin, Lifeweaver generates consistently alright cards, but its healing is tougher to come by than spare parts. It's also a specific mechanic without much support in Druid, unlike Angler's murlocs, which ask for and support a deck with mostly murlocs.
This said, we now have several ways to tell how good Whirlkick Master is. It has a low cost, which is good. Like Angler, it has a relatively synergistic activation requirement, given that Rogue has several currently played Combo cards (Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent, Edwin VanCleef, EVIL Miscreant and Raiding Party, depending). This is unlike Lifeweaver, with its healing cards. However, the stumbling block comes with the available pool of Combo cards, which are analyzed below.
3, Perdition's Blade - One of two weapons. Quick multi-target removal that lasts into the next turn. Great option.
3, Edwin VanCleef - The man himself. He can be played right away for, likely, a 6-6 or 8-8, or saved for a larger turn later. Good option.
3, SI:7 Agent - Proactive small lump of stats. Historically great. Great option.
3, Hooked Scimitar - The other weapon. Cheap, good removal, with value for later turns. Great option.
3, Cutthroat Buccaneer - If you have a weapon up, it's alright. If you don't, it's just a small body, which is alright. Okay option.
3, Headcrack - Pure face damage. You'd rather play other cards. Bad option usually, okay option in a face-oriented deck.
4, Raiding Party - If your deck wants to run Raiding Party, it runs it already. Admittedly, the Buccaneer is a pirate and Cursed Castaway exists, but the success of that type of deck and this card seems unlikely to me. Time will tell how this option stands, but it is definitely bad if you don't want it.
5, Crazed Chemist - Expensive. Can only be played right away with 9 or 10 mana, and has situational board effect, even if it may be useful later on. Bad option.
6, Kidnapper - Similar to Crazed Chemist. Notably, however, it may be alright in a face-oriented deck. Still a bad option, though.
At first, this seems to be an okay pool - these cards are pretty good. But to note is that the average cost of these cards is around 3. Before card quality is even discussed, given an activation cycle of the 2-mana Whirlkick Master into 2/3 cost Combo card, this means a player can only play the generated card right away with 7~ mana, besides Preparation into Eviscerate/Cold Blood lowering that cost by 2, which is inconsistent. All the best cards of this type have been able to generate 0 and 1 cost cards, while this can only do so quite rarely.
Also, as we've seen from the evaluated cards, the best of them have generated cards that can be played immediately and proactively. While most of the cheap options here can be proactive, the above shows that they are not immediate. We see that, though Underbelly Angler seems a fitting comparison, Whirlkick Master is far worse. It has less likelihood to survive on turn 2 and even if it does, barring Preparation into Eviscerate, the cards generated on turn 3 cannot be played for another turn. The deck that utilizes this card is also unlikely to be like Priest, which could wait until later turns to use Lyra the Sunshard. The generated cards seem to promote either a board-flood deck or a SMORC deck, neither of which like to drag the game out. (Though I acknowledge that this deck speculation is the shakiest bit of my evaluation) One might say that you don't need to play the generated cards immediately - you could play Master and activate it for 4 or 5 mana, then use the generated card next turn. This seems like a weak turn for a weak result, to me.
My conclusion is, then, that this card will not be competitive. Even Lock and Load, which I feel is the most similar card available, was supported by discounted secrets and other easy activation methods. But it is possible that Blizzard prints a great, cheap Combo card, or that my evaluation of how powerful the turns and decks I imagined are riddled with stinky holes. Regardless, it will be a fun buildaround card for years to come! That is exciting.
You guys! If I am reading this right, I think some of you are missing the mechanic here. If you have 6 on board and play the 7th you get Ra. Your turn is not over at that point, so now, how do we copy Ra a couple times in that same turn for the likely OTK?
Well, you can say that Skulking Geist is a jade hate card and I can understand that but it also save people from Inner Fire bullshit, which is really frustrating to see from beta to 5th year.
As soon as it has gone to wild, Inner Fire decks appeared again.
I don't think Skulking Geist was only about Jade Druid. All Malygos decks are using 1-cost spells, Power Overwhelming was also a problematic card as a 1-cost card but it moved to HoF before Skulking Geist but it will be a solution to Power Overwhelming too like Conceal, Ice Lance or any other which i can't remember right now.
Like how mana cheating is a problematic mechanic for Hearthstone, Low costed - High Valued cards are also problematic too.
It can be said that almost all 1-cost minions can be problematic one day. Best example is Fire Fly. In the Year of the Mammoth, almost all decks have it. There are other problematic examples too,
Anyway, the subject here is Skulking Geist, I agree that it was created to counter Jade Idol but it was not a hate card. It is a simple tech card. Unlike you, I liked Skulking Geist's concept, I like its combo disruption + game plan disruption ability also a removal remover. I don't think that it ended as an Idol-Hate card.
Note that 'hate cards' isn't an official term. It's simply meaning a tech card designed specifically to destroy a particular deck or strategy rather than simply making the matchup easier.
A perfect example is the comparison of Brawl with Reno for tech against aggro decks. Brawl is a great anti-aggro tool and it helps your matchup against them, but it doesn't completely destroy the opponent as is. It HELPS you win, and if they screw up or if other areas of the game force them into a bad situation, can spell a win, but it itself doesn't win it alone. Reno, though, led to a lot of 50/50 matches (as you literally have a 50% chance of having it in your hand by turn 6 if you mulligan for it) where you flat out lose the game if he drops. If you played burn or fast aggro your only hope was that the card wouldn't show up.
Reno would be an anti-aggro Hate card, by many definitions. I can see people arguing against it, of course, but I hope it gives the idea.
In that same vein, I believe Geist was meant to be a Hate card for Idol that failed to do that and instead changed a LOT of other matchups (which I think was also expected by Blizzard). Whether that was a good card or not... I guess I lean on "it was a fine card, but lets not try it again so casually". I feel the same for the power level of death knights btw.
I guess KotFT was a unique expansion with huge power level because of the unbalanced game. There was almost only Jade Druids and Pirate Warriors in Ladder and it seemed like it can't be change. So it is like a "must to do" i guess. Or I'm wrong again i really don't know but I want to believe in this.
This post from Chimera proves that we need a guide for people who likes to edit their deck-guides or comments. Who knows what secrets will be uncovered?
Conceptually I really like that they're printing these sorts of random generation effects on minions rather than situational & low-tempo spells like Lock and Load and Stampede, but I doubt this card in particular will see much play because the average cost of combo cards makes miracle turns pretty unlikely. If Cold Blood still cost 1 and there were a couple more really cheap combo cards Whirlkick Master would be significantly scarier.
Unlimited Deck Slots
I have had this issue for years.
Infinite slots or archive please asafp.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
Tolin's Goblet from Heistbaron Toggle has been how I got a hand full of pogohoppers. So it seems like getting 7 in your hand isn't so bad. Also that Noz legendary could be an easy way to get all 7. Still need to kill noz before the combo though.
Unlimited Deck Slots
I always say if I haven't used a deck in over a month I can just let it go. This deck does not spark joy me, bye, bye. This way I can add newer decks without issue.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
Easy enough for Rogue. I've played a decent amount of Pogo rogue and I've had 7x in my hand in a lot of occasions. Seems like an alt win condition for the pogo archtype. There are a few more classes that could pull it off in standard but rogue's the obvious current choice. Warlock would be good with Glinda but having her survive a turn is always tough at best.
Uldum Card Reveal - Desert Obelisk
the worst card in HS..
The Dictionary of Hearthstone
Keywords over expansions also sounds like something fun to automate.
Out of Cards Changelog - 2019-07-22
Damn, you're one character too long. Guess we'll have to rename you.
I'll find a fix for it, I'm sorry for not checking with your name exactly. It'll all be so much better once we get the site name out of the nav, giving us some extra space.
The Dictionary of Hearthstone
We should definitely have a guide about keywords/mechanics in the game, awesome suggestion! I can make this happen.
Encyclopedia of Hearthstone Terms
Good catch, fixed!
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
I think we need more cards to make this work for each class. I have seen some classes getting cards that copy stuff, like warrior, paladin and warlock. I expect all classes will get some way to get this combo working, otherwise why make it a neutral.
But copying is really dangerous and can lead to all kinds of OTK's. So I am really curious where they are heading with this card.
The Dictionary of Hearthstone
I think outof.cards should have a section on the linguistics of Hearthstone. There's already a great glossary, but it doesn't outline the in-game keywords (Rush, Overkill). I couldn't find that information anywhere. It would also be cool to have a graph charting the usage of keywords over multiple expansion releases.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
Bwonsamdi, the Dead, can draw all copies of Mogu Cultist if we can shuffle enough copies. It might be slow but works quite well like Tak Nozwhisker. Now I need to find a way to shuffle exactly 7 copies of Mogu Cultists to a priest deck. I guess Baleful Banker + Augmented Elekk or Spirit of the Dead won't be enough.
Out of Cards Changelog - 2019-07-22
That issue I was having with items on the navbar wrapping to two lines is back again since you added the bell. I suppose if you don't want to just increase the width, you could chop long usernames, and replace the end with an ellipsis.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
Whoa ok why all the downvotes :O
I know you need all seven on board, here is how it goes :
Draw 2 Mogu Cultists, Herald Volazj, Shadow Word : Death and 2 Séances (Shadow Visions copy maybe) along with a Drakkari Enchanter and Emperor Thaurissan.
Play DE with Emperor to have 4 mana Volazj, 2 0 mana Séances, 2 0 mana Cultists and 1 mana SWD.
Play a Cultist, Séance twice, play 1 mana Cultist twice, Herald for 4 mana, SWD Herald for 1 mana and play last Cultist, totalling 7 mana for the entire combo.
Dropping Emperor+DE has the same cost as dropping Tak Noz, a Cultist and casting a Toggwaggle Scheme, except Scheme needs 7 turns in hand and you need to draw 3 cards.
And as a Priest, you are better at surviving than Rogues are.
Alternatively, you can use Gargoyles instead of DE which can serve as a tempo play unlike DE, and the combo cost will rise to 11 meaning you only need one coin, But you will need Emperor in both cases.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
Mirage Caller in wild but don't know a way in standard yet.
Card design challenge/game. WoW spells.
-You haven't watched Avatar? That show is awesome!
-Wait they made a show about those blue aliens?
I know the wording isn't very orthodox, but whatevs.
Next: An Arcane Mage ability.
New Rogue Minion - Whirlkick Master
It's lovely that we've finally gotten an effect like this for Combo cards. For such a flavorful, unique mechanic, it's odd that we've never had a Combo-focused archetype. And while I don't think that this card will cause that to happen in a competitive way, it does create the option of creating a deck all around Combo cards. That sounds fun!
Regards to competitive viability, similar effects have seen play many times over. Lyra the Sunshard is the obvious comparison, but Underbelly Angler, Lock and Load, and Lifeweaver are very similar, while Mana Cyclone, Gazlowe, and Exotic Mountseller are somewhat similar. Point being that, at the least, this type of card proves to be a possible build-around. All of these cards have seen extensive theorycrafting. The gatekeepers to viable deck-crafting seem to be cost, card pool, and activation ease. Exotic Mountseller and Gazlowe are far harder to use due to their high cost. Lyra also has a higher cost, but Priest has plenty of small spells and cards like Radiant Elemental to discount them. Thus, Lyra turns small spells over efficiently, quickly turning the board around for cheap while also generating valuable spells for later. Mana Cyclone does much the same, trading small spells for more small spells and for larger spells, with the added benefit of increasing hand size for Mountain Giant (a playstyle not too accessible to Rogue, sadly). Not to mention that the Cyclone is a discountable Mage Elemental. Underbelly Angler's activation cards cannot be discounted, but it is 2 mana and murlocs are mostly 1 or 2 mana, making it much the same as the other two. Mana Cyclone, Underbelly Angler, and Lyra the Sunshard, the best of this group, are all easily activated and have a desirable pool of random cards to offer that can be played on the same turn. Unlike them, cards like Gazlowe have an undesirable pool to draw from - while 1-mana spare parts can be discounted and played over his 6-mana body, the minions he generates are quite random and usually not playable right away, leading to a lackluster turn. On the opposite side of the coin, Lifeweaver generates consistently alright cards, but its healing is tougher to come by than spare parts. It's also a specific mechanic without much support in Druid, unlike Angler's murlocs, which ask for and support a deck with mostly murlocs.
This said, we now have several ways to tell how good Whirlkick Master is. It has a low cost, which is good. Like Angler, it has a relatively synergistic activation requirement, given that Rogue has several currently played Combo cards (Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent, Edwin VanCleef, EVIL Miscreant and Raiding Party, depending). This is unlike Lifeweaver, with its healing cards. However, the stumbling block comes with the available pool of Combo cards, which are analyzed below.
2, Eviscerate - Cheap removal. Great option.
2, Defias Ringleader - Cheap board-fill. Good option.
2, Cold Blood - Situational card that is not good outside of its situation, but generates damage for later. Okay option.
3, EVIL Miscreant - The value parade stomps onward. Promotes board-flood and Spirit of the Shark synergy. Great option.
3, Perdition's Blade - One of two weapons. Quick multi-target removal that lasts into the next turn. Great option.
3, Edwin VanCleef - The man himself. He can be played right away for, likely, a 6-6 or 8-8, or saved for a larger turn later. Good option.
3, SI:7 Agent - Proactive small lump of stats. Historically great. Great option.
3, Hooked Scimitar - The other weapon. Cheap, good removal, with value for later turns. Great option.
3, Cutthroat Buccaneer - If you have a weapon up, it's alright. If you don't, it's just a small body, which is alright. Okay option.
3, Headcrack - Pure face damage. You'd rather play other cards. Bad option usually, okay option in a face-oriented deck.
4, Raiding Party - If your deck wants to run Raiding Party, it runs it already. Admittedly, the Buccaneer is a pirate and Cursed Castaway exists, but the success of that type of deck and this card seems unlikely to me. Time will tell how this option stands, but it is definitely bad if you don't want it.
5, Crazed Chemist - Expensive. Can only be played right away with 9 or 10 mana, and has situational board effect, even if it may be useful later on. Bad option.
6, Kidnapper - Similar to Crazed Chemist. Notably, however, it may be alright in a face-oriented deck. Still a bad option, though.
At first, this seems to be an okay pool - these cards are pretty good. But to note is that the average cost of these cards is around 3. Before card quality is even discussed, given an activation cycle of the 2-mana Whirlkick Master into 2/3 cost Combo card, this means a player can only play the generated card right away with 7~ mana, besides Preparation into Eviscerate/Cold Blood lowering that cost by 2, which is inconsistent. All the best cards of this type have been able to generate 0 and 1 cost cards, while this can only do so quite rarely.
Also, as we've seen from the evaluated cards, the best of them have generated cards that can be played immediately and proactively. While most of the cheap options here can be proactive, the above shows that they are not immediate. We see that, though Underbelly Angler seems a fitting comparison, Whirlkick Master is far worse. It has less likelihood to survive on turn 2 and even if it does, barring Preparation into Eviscerate, the cards generated on turn 3 cannot be played for another turn. The deck that utilizes this card is also unlikely to be like Priest, which could wait until later turns to use Lyra the Sunshard. The generated cards seem to promote either a board-flood deck or a SMORC deck, neither of which like to drag the game out. (Though I acknowledge that this deck speculation is the shakiest bit of my evaluation) One might say that you don't need to play the generated cards immediately - you could play Master and activate it for 4 or 5 mana, then use the generated card next turn. This seems like a weak turn for a weak result, to me.
My conclusion is, then, that this card will not be competitive. Even Lock and Load, which I feel is the most similar card available, was supported by discounted secrets and other easy activation methods. But it is possible that Blizzard prints a great, cheap Combo card, or that my evaluation of how powerful the turns and decks I imagined are riddled with stinky holes. Regardless, it will be a fun buildaround card for years to come! That is exciting.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
No.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
You guys! If I am reading this right, I think some of you are missing the mechanic here. If you have 6 on board and play the 7th you get Ra. Your turn is not over at that point, so now, how do we copy Ra a couple times in that same turn for the likely OTK?
Conversation w/ Dean Ayala (Iksar)
I guess KotFT was a unique expansion with huge power level because of the unbalanced game. There was almost only Jade Druids and Pirate Warriors in Ladder and it seemed like it can't be change. So it is like a "must to do" i guess. Or I'm wrong again i really don't know but I want to believe in this.
Some suggestions for improving deck guides and deck pages overall
This post from Chimera proves that we need a guide for people who likes to edit their deck-guides or comments. Who knows what secrets will be uncovered?
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
clearing your own board is easy for rogue. Daring Escape.
New Rogue Minion - Whirlkick Master
Conceptually I really like that they're printing these sorts of random generation effects on minions rather than situational & low-tempo spells like Lock and Load and Stampede, but I doubt this card in particular will see much play because the average cost of combo cards makes miracle turns pretty unlikely. If Cold Blood still cost 1 and there were a couple more really cheap combo cards Whirlkick Master would be significantly scarier.
Uldum Card Reveal - Mogu Cultist
that's not too much set up all you need is 6 or 7 turns to hold toggwaggle's scheme and 5 spaces in hand.
Mogu Cultist
I can also think about Elise the Enlightened and Barista Lynchen theoretically can create enough copies after a few iterations