- Naga Sea Witch didn´t have that big winrate, but she was nerfed because It wasn´t fun to lose against that combo.
Instead, playing and losing against Big Priest and Darkest Hour Warlock is very fun and we deserve them in the meta...
To be fair, it took them ages to finally nerf Naga Sea Witch so them taking forever to do something about big priest fits their attitude towards wild (which is caring about it as little as possible).
Quote From No Author Specified
Possible nerf for Big Priest in Wild would be primary Barnes, because nerfing all the ressurect effects would kill every other deck types (probably).
This is what troubles me most though. I'm afraid just nerfing Barnes at this point won't be enough. And seeing how it took the community what, a year now? Of constant bickering about big priest before they even considered doing something about it makes me feel like we'll have to go through at least another year of Anduin's utter bullcrap.
Honestly Vargoth has more or less double filled the role of Barnes at this point. The main difference between the two is that Barnes represents a earlier highroll & diminishes greatly in the end game while Vargoth can't tutor anything out early on but creates an incredibly staggering value game/sustain potential in the late game. Nerfing or even deleting Barnes would do absolutely nothing essentially. Big Priest would still generally lose to aggro and sometimes midrange while they would win against most slow non-otk decks due to Vargoth & frequent 6 minion resurrects.
Absolutely this. If they're truly asking and listening to Wild players on what to nerf, they will do the right thing and nerf resurrect spells. Those are the real problem and they aren't played in any deck besides Big Priest. Nerfing Barnes would only mess up Spell Hunter when it comes to other competitive decks, but removing a big minion on turn 4 isn't a problem anyway if they can't resurrect it 2 times the very next turn.
I think power creep largely killed jaraxxus. I hadn't even considered him because I haven't seen one around in *ages*. There's just too many decks that can kill you from 15 hp.
I really wouldn't mind if he was reworked to be more in line with a regular hero card because I really like mistah J, but boy does it feel bad to have you max health capped at 15. If he worked more like Alexstrasza , where you could heal back up to 30 afterwards and retained your armour, he'd be a lot better in 2019 Hearthstone.
Hi. Welcome to wild. I play it myself very briefly, started in year of dragon, before i was standard main. I had quite success with even lock and token aggro druid, they usually take me to rank 5. I play big rogue for few months, it took a hit by prep nerf but it is still viable and fun. Recently, i switched to quest miracle mage, added Vargoth for extra turn and Yogg for extra miracles. If you are purely after fun decks, check Roffle's Chaos mage, i posted it here on OOC. Yogg and Wonders are awesome:)
I think the more immediate problem is that there is no payoff for reaching late game with WL. Any other deck that's trying to survive the early game will at some point start doing crazy things back, be it conjuring up giants, enormous pogo hoppers, infinite Togwaggle treasures, Chef Nomi, OTK Holy Wrath, Jepetto, Swampqueen hagatha, etc. etc. etc.
Even if WL had all the tools it wanted for board control, and I'd argue that it has a fair amount (Godfrey still exists, after all), there's no point in playing those cards because you still inevitably lose, even if you can stall for a while. For the last few sets WL has gotten a mishmash of weird themes like hand buffs and discard and demons and deck-manipulation, none of which provide a viable late game path or work together particularly well.
Control (or combo) WL need some sort of "fuck you I win" card or combo in order to be viable.
Well, we do have Lord Jaraxxus and I remember how good he was pre-Ungoro. So imho warlock still has a win-condition, even though it is fairer than what others can do. I don't mind playing him and I even did in the early days of the expansion. The problem I constantly faced were warriors and their dumb Omega Devastators and freeze mages with their burn. I haven't played control warlock after the nerfs to rogue, so I can't say if it would have handled some popular aggro decks like mech hunter or murloc shaman. But from the other win-conditions you have mentioned, Pogo and Holy W would have definitely killed us, sooo you have a point there.
[edit] Mecha'thun as a win-condition is still possible on theory, because we still have Galvanizers and Grim Rally. If warlock gets more sustainability, maybe this archtype would pop up again.
At least you still have Hellfire and Twisting Nether as effective board clears. Control Priest is probably in a worse position.
I've really really tried. There's too much swarm right now. By the time I get to turn 4, if I even managed to draw Hellfire, the self damage is a liability and the opponent can refill the board in a turn or two. Forget surviving to turn 8 for a Twisting Nether. I've tried using Shriek, which is only good if I have the Coin, because otherwise it discard one of my other clears or early taunts. I've tried using cheap taunts to stave of early swarms, tried adding more healing... Warlock just does not have the tools to survive against even bad-draw aggro anymore.
And zoolock is definitely better than control warlock, but there's a reason it's a 1% meta deck---its slower than hunter, mage and druid, and does not have the staying power to survive warrior.
I think the more immediate problem is that there is no payoff for reaching late game with WL. Any other deck that's trying to survive the early game will at some point start doing crazy things back, be it conjuring up giants, enormous pogo hoppers, infinite Togwaggle treasures, Chef Nomi, OTK Holy Wrath, Jepetto, Swampqueen hagatha, etc. etc. etc.
Even if WL had all the tools it wanted for board control, and I'd argue that it has a fair amount (Godfrey still exists, after all), there's no point in playing those cards because you still inevitably lose, even if you can stall for a while. For the last few sets WL has gotten a mishmash of weird themes like hand buffs and discard and demons and deck-manipulation, none of which provide a viable late game path or work together particularly well.
Control (or combo) WL need some sort of "fuck you I win" card or combo in order to be viable.
Have you tried adding Wild Pyromancer? Warlock does not have a lot of good 0- or 1-cost spells, but Mortal Coil is definitely one of them in a Token-heavy meta.
I disagree with your main premise, IMO the devs clearly took a step back from the infinite value trend after KoFT and I think that is readily apparent when you compare the later hero cards, yes, even Boom, to DK hunter or Mage. Boom has 1/5 to discover a mech. DK hunter discovers two beasts every turn and splices them together for efficiency. There's no comparison there.
Rafaam is also not comparable since there is a very significant cost attached to playing him: all the cards you actually put in your deck (presumably because they're good) are transformed into random legendaries. This is not a card you put into a control/value/fatigue style of deck, unlike the Elise sisters, because you won't be able to afford to play it until you're basically out of cards anyway. Rafaam is only a "value" card in a zoo deck with 14 1,drops, in which case the value plan isn't really a threat, Rafaam and friends are just the desperate last hurrah of an aggro deck.
The problem with Conjurer's Calling as you pointed out isn't so much the card itself as it is the interaction with MG. It's also not really a value issue, the concern is tempo: unreasonable lumps of stats generated well below the market price.
Lastly, I think a complaint or criticism is much stronger if you provide a reasonable alternative. Sure, people will disagree and debate, but that's what message boards are for.
They took a step back from "infinite" value but added very persistent value options with twinspells, elysiana, togwaggle's plan, mechs, to the point a single card is not worth anything anymore. In many scenarios you are virtually guaranteed to never run out of value at least for what concerns the duration of the game. Might aswell be infinite. Also dk's made exception for post ww rexxar, were infinite value but a very slow trickle of infinite value. They would grind you in the end, but they wouldnt have "hard" resources like a twinspell would give you. Drboom sure mech generation is gated between an 1 in 5 roll, but as i said, the card generates value simply because the current mech pool is extremely high quality, omega assembly is staple x2, and even if you don't roll delivery drone, most of the other options are pretty versatile board control tools.
At least you still have Hellfire and Twisting Nether as effective board clears. Control Priest is probably in a worse position.
I've really really tried. There's too much swarm right now. By the time I get to turn 4, if I even managed to draw Hellfire, the self damage is a liability and the opponent can refill the board in a turn or two. Forget surviving to turn 8 for a Twisting Nether. I've tried using Shriek, which is only good if I have the Coin, because otherwise it discard one of my other clears or early taunts. I've tried using cheap taunts to stave of early swarms, tried adding more healing... Warlock just does not have the tools to survive against even bad-draw aggro anymore.
And zoolock is definitely better than control warlock, but there's a reason it's a 1% meta deck---its slower than hunter, mage and druid, and does not have the staying power to survive warrior.
I disagree with your main premise, IMO the devs clearly took a step back from the infinite value trend after KoFT and I think that is readily apparent when you compare the later hero cards, yes, even Boom, to DK hunter or Mage. Boom has 1/5 to discover a mech. DK hunter discovers two beasts every turn and splices them together for efficiency. There's no comparison there.
Rafaam is also not comparable since there is a very significant cost attached to playing him: all the cards you actually put in your deck (presumably because they're good) are transformed into random legendaries. This is not a card you put into a control/value/fatigue style of deck, unlike the Elise sisters, because you won't be able to afford to play it until you're basically out of cards anyway. Rafaam is only a "value" card in a zoo deck with 14 1,drops, in which case the value plan isn't really a threat, Rafaam and friends are just the desperate last hurrah of an aggro deck.
The problem with Conjurer's Calling as you pointed out isn't so much the card itself as it is the interaction with MG. It's also not really a value issue, the concern is tempo: unreasonable lumps of stats generated well below the market price.
Lastly, I think a complaint or criticism is much stronger if you provide a reasonable alternative. Sure, people will disagree and debate, but that's what message boards are for.
That's probably largely down to hearthstone's interface and design philosophy of simplicity. There are loads of cards that power-up spells but they're almost all minions: spellpower +x, manacost reduction, "whenever you play a spell" triggers, mana cyclone, etc. etc. Hell there's Swampqueen Hagatha and Kazakus that arguably do merge spells together(in some fashion), but they're both battlecry minions. Oh and Fandral/Stalladris and Choose one spells.
I do expect Blizzard to keep printing cards like Kazakus in the future simply because the mechanic is immensely popular, but I'd be really surprised if such complexity and power were not restricted to legendaries. I doubt we'll see things more finnicky than twinspell or echo printed on non-legendary spell cards for the foreseeable future.
Zoo is still OK on ladder so I don't see this as an immediate problem. There are certainly classes that are less playable at the moment. For next expansion? Sure I wouldn't mind seeing more than one class have a viable control deck and I've always been a fan of control WL.
Maybe with the next round of unannounced HoFs blizzard will take away Warrior's Shield Slam and Brawl so that it can sit in a corner and cry for a lack of good cards for a change. I'm only being slightly sarcastic.
Minions have all the fun! I want to be able to line up a couple of spells and then get a reward like a combo or magnetic effect for spells. Say if you manage to cast a fireball and a frostbolt after one another they melt to become a frostfire bolt doing extra damage. For instance. Only rogues have that atm. Or each consecutive spell in the same turn gets mana reduction. Stuff like that. Or being able to enhance a card in your hand with a spell without the opponent seeing which card you buffed. Some crazy stuff with spells. A spell to revive a spell you cast earlier that game (aka resurrect on spells). A pyroblast! when you have 2 crits in a row would also be nice to have.
News from Mike Donais
Absolutely this. If they're truly asking and listening to Wild players on what to nerf, they will do the right thing and nerf resurrect spells. Those are the real problem and they aren't played in any deck besides Big Priest. Nerfing Barnes would only mess up Spell Hunter when it comes to other competitive decks, but removing a big minion on turn 4 isn't a problem anyway if they can't resurrect it 2 times the very next turn.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I think power creep largely killed jaraxxus. I hadn't even considered him because I haven't seen one around in *ages*. There's just too many decks that can kill you from 15 hp.
I really wouldn't mind if he was reworked to be more in line with a regular hero card because I really like mistah J, but boy does it feel bad to have you max health capped at 15. If he worked more like Alexstrasza , where you could heal back up to 30 afterwards and retained your armour, he'd be a lot better in 2019 Hearthstone.
Suggestions for a new wild player
Hi. Welcome to wild. I play it myself very briefly, started in year of dragon, before i was standard main. I had quite success with even lock and token aggro druid, they usually take me to rank 5. I play big rogue for few months, it took a hit by prep nerf but it is still viable and fun. Recently, i switched to quest miracle mage, added Vargoth for extra turn and Yogg for extra miracles. If you are purely after fun decks, check Roffle's Chaos mage, i posted it here on OOC. Yogg and Wonders are awesome:)
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Well, we do have Lord Jaraxxus and I remember how good he was pre-Ungoro. So imho warlock still has a win-condition, even though it is fairer than what others can do. I don't mind playing him and I even did in the early days of the expansion. The problem I constantly faced were warriors and their dumb Omega Devastators and freeze mages with their burn. I haven't played control warlock after the nerfs to rogue, so I can't say if it would have handled some popular aggro decks like mech hunter or murloc shaman. But from the other win-conditions you have mentioned, Pogo and Holy W would have definitely killed us, sooo you have a point there.
[edit] Mecha'thun as a win-condition is still possible on theory, because we still have Galvanizers and Grim Rally. If warlock gets more sustainability, maybe this archtype would pop up again.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I think the more immediate problem is that there is no payoff for reaching late game with WL. Any other deck that's trying to survive the early game will at some point start doing crazy things back, be it conjuring up giants, enormous pogo hoppers, infinite Togwaggle treasures, Chef Nomi, OTK Holy Wrath, Jepetto, Swampqueen hagatha, etc. etc. etc.
Even if WL had all the tools it wanted for board control, and I'd argue that it has a fair amount (Godfrey still exists, after all), there's no point in playing those cards because you still inevitably lose, even if you can stall for a while. For the last few sets WL has gotten a mishmash of weird themes like hand buffs and discard and demons and deck-manipulation, none of which provide a viable late game path or work together particularly well.
Control (or combo) WL need some sort of "fuck you I win" card or combo in order to be viable.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Have you tried adding Wild Pyromancer? Warlock does not have a lot of good 0- or 1-cost spells, but Mortal Coil is definitely one of them in a Token-heavy meta.
Fibonacci's Fast Bomb Warrior
I like this deck. A bit more interactive than traditional control warrior. Ended up with around 60% winrate with 40 games starting from rank 5.
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Razorwind#2588
Region: EU
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first. I don't mind showing quest before we go.
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
They took a step back from "infinite" value but added very persistent value options with twinspells, elysiana, togwaggle's plan, mechs, to the point a single card is not worth anything anymore. In many scenarios you are virtually guaranteed to never run out of value at least for what concerns the duration of the game. Might aswell be infinite. Also dk's made exception for post ww rexxar, were infinite value but a very slow trickle of infinite value. They would grind you in the end, but they wouldnt have "hard" resources like a twinspell would give you. Drboom sure mech generation is gated between an 1 in 5 roll, but as i said, the card generates value simply because the current mech pool is extremely high quality, omega assembly is staple x2, and even if you don't roll delivery drone, most of the other options are pretty versatile board control tools.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I dont think we have that implemented for regular users yet, what do you want it it say?
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I've really really tried. There's too much swarm right now. By the time I get to turn 4, if I even managed to draw Hellfire, the self damage is a liability and the opponent can refill the board in a turn or two. Forget surviving to turn 8 for a Twisting Nether. I've tried using Shriek, which is only good if I have the Coin, because otherwise it discard one of my other clears or early taunts. I've tried using cheap taunts to stave of early swarms, tried adding more healing... Warlock just does not have the tools to survive against even bad-draw aggro anymore.
And zoolock is definitely better than control warlock, but there's a reason it's a 1% meta deck---its slower than hunter, mage and druid, and does not have the staying power to survive warrior.
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
I disagree with your main premise, IMO the devs clearly took a step back from the infinite value trend after KoFT and I think that is readily apparent when you compare the later hero cards, yes, even Boom, to DK hunter or Mage. Boom has 1/5 to discover a mech. DK hunter discovers two beasts every turn and splices them together for efficiency. There's no comparison there.
Rafaam is also not comparable since there is a very significant cost attached to playing him: all the cards you actually put in your deck (presumably because they're good) are transformed into random legendaries. This is not a card you put into a control/value/fatigue style of deck, unlike the Elise sisters, because you won't be able to afford to play it until you're basically out of cards anyway. Rafaam is only a "value" card in a zoo deck with 14 1,drops, in which case the value plan isn't really a threat, Rafaam and friends are just the desperate last hurrah of an aggro deck.
The problem with Conjurer's Calling as you pointed out isn't so much the card itself as it is the interaction with MG. It's also not really a value issue, the concern is tempo: unreasonable lumps of stats generated well below the market price.
Lastly, I think a complaint or criticism is much stronger if you provide a reasonable alternative. Sure, people will disagree and debate, but that's what message boards are for.
Are the League of Explorers Taking on the League of E.V.I.L? Expansion Teaser
Who knows...
Moyen's Bomb Warrior
Isn't Sul'thraze too greedy for such type of deck?
Are the League of Explorers Taking on the League of E.V.I.L? Expansion Teaser
Lorewise, Finley should be druid, Elise Mage, Reno Paladin, Brann Hunter; this is for how they look.
Mechanically, Finley (murloc) should be paladin, Reno (highlander) should be mage, the other can be what they like to be.
Combo/magnetic/hidden agenda for spells
That's probably largely down to hearthstone's interface and design philosophy of simplicity. There are loads of cards that power-up spells but they're almost all minions: spellpower +x, manacost reduction, "whenever you play a spell" triggers, mana cyclone, etc. etc. Hell there's Swampqueen Hagatha and Kazakus that arguably do merge spells together(in some fashion), but they're both battlecry minions. Oh and Fandral/Stalladris and Choose one spells.
I do expect Blizzard to keep printing cards like Kazakus in the future simply because the mechanic is immensely popular, but I'd be really surprised if such complexity and power were not restricted to legendaries. I doubt we'll see things more finnicky than twinspell or echo printed on non-legendary spell cards for the foreseeable future.
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Zul'jin
10 mana class card.
[Theory] Reno Jackson is Nozari himself
Reno would make more sense as a red dragon, what with the treasure-loving. Renostrasz.
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Deathstalker Rexxar
Playable hunter hero.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
At least you still have Hellfire and Twisting Nether as effective board clears. Control Priest is probably in a worse position.
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Hagatha the Witch
A hero card that also has an immediate effect on the board when played (like dealing damage, etc.)
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Zoo is still OK on ladder so I don't see this as an immediate problem. There are certainly classes that are less playable at the moment. For next expansion? Sure I wouldn't mind seeing more than one class have a viable control deck and I've always been a fan of control WL.
Maybe with the next round of unannounced HoFs blizzard will take away Warrior's Shield Slam and Brawl so that it can sit in a corner and cry for a lack of good cards for a change. I'm only being slightly sarcastic.
Combo/magnetic/hidden agenda for spells
Minions have all the fun! I want to be able to line up a couple of spells and then get a reward like a combo or magnetic effect for spells. Say if you manage to cast a fireball and a frostbolt after one another they melt to become a frostfire bolt doing extra damage. For instance. Only rogues have that atm. Or each consecutive spell in the same turn gets mana reduction. Stuff like that. Or being able to enhance a card in your hand with a spell without the opponent seeing which card you buffed. Some crazy stuff with spells. A spell to revive a spell you cast earlier that game (aka resurrect on spells). A pyroblast! when you have 2 crits in a row would also be nice to have.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I also agree Defile was too efficient. Such efficieny should require further synergy.
Conversely, I'd love a scalable board clear bound to card draw:
"Dark Scheme" (2) deal 1 damage to all the minions for each card drawn during this turn.
It deals 1 damage on its own, 2 damage with HP, ... huge damage with Plot Twist.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I want my cubelock back.