Yeah, I really miss that spell. Controlling the early- and mid-game is what we need right now. If it wasn't for Bomb Warrior, I am confident, that we wouldn't have needed that much healing either. Lord Jaraxxus would have dealt with most of the slow decks out there.
Well, tbh warlock has been in a worse shape before (Un'goro). At least now we have a lot of playable cards, but we just lack the support for them.
I agree, the problem with cards like defile is that it is so useful that no other cheap AOE spells get printed for warlock in year of the raven, so now that year of the mammoth is gone, control warlock is lacking in early game removal.
I am a Wild main, and i like it because i have more freedom about deckbuilding, and i don't want my preciously crafted cards to become worthless.
Yet i hate stupidly broken interactions, such as those provided by Big Priest, but also Bloodbloom.
Those interactions are inherently flawed, but become clearly broken only later on, typically when already rotated into Wild. But the flaw is there since the release, when the card is Standard.
So i don't even hate the broken part of Wild, i hate the flawed design policy adopted in this game since forever, and never acknowledged as dangerous, simply because they don't care of Wild.
As if a card like Darkest Hour could ever become playable, without providing broken value...
So I hear a general consensus that if the crazy stuff is not too crazy. This means either that it happens at a turn that something can be done against it, or that crazy does not immediately ends the game in one turn. And you should design your deck so it can handle crazy. That's also called teching in cards to handle certain popular craziness. For instance, when rogues where killing you with their weapons, you tech in a weapon removal since otherwise you can't cope with the crazy rogue weaponry at turn 4-5-6. Now with all the magnetic craziness people tech for silence so your magnetized minion gets a little less crazy.
And basically, when stuff is so crazy nothing can stop it reasonably we then call it OP and in need of a nerf. So in fact its an important issue for HS, since we somehow want a "fair fight" and a "balanced meta" where more than two decks can live.
And this is all about standard. In wild crazy is the norm so to speak, that's why its called wild. But even here too crazy is not funny anymore witness the big priest problem.
Maybe also related to OTK decks: if your OTK deck would be a guaranteed certified win at turn 5, this would be a problem. A certified win at turn 13, not so much.
Regarding your first two sentences - it's just what Tuscarora87 said, there is a big misconception of what wild is. It depends on where you are looking at. If you are looking only at the decks you despised in the past or at busted synergies, which your opponents can pull off early on, it's not a surprise, that some people disrespect it.
I personally like it due to various reasons - it offers more variety in terms of play-styles and archtypes (this will be even more obvious, after Vanish and Mind Blast get HoF and we start to see only two-dimensional builds popping up for rogue), it features more cards (which offer greater freedom regarding deck-building), it is the cheapest format in the long term (the longer you stay in the game, the bigger your collection will be and at one point it will greately exceed the cards you are missing in both formats) and it offers more meme opportunities. I must mention the undeniable fact, that wild has its own problems like enabling busted combos, which may hinder a lot of decks from seeing competitive play and feel too oppressive - e.g. pre-nerfed Reno Priest, Giantlock, AK74 Druid, pre-nerfed Kingsbane Mill Rogue and now the infamous Big Priest and Darkest Hour. And people would want to avoid them, especially if they played against them in standard and were left with a bad taste in their mouths (like the case with Big Priest in KoFT and K&C, which devolved into Resurrect Combo Priest in RR). Though tbh standard has its own problems too and due to the small amount of cards there some cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius would feel oppressive as well, because not every class can answer them properly. The power-level there is distributed poorly, which is another reason why some people prefer to enter the eternal format.
As you can see, everything depends on where you are looking at. If you are afraid of getting burnt-out someday, that's ok, because it happens to all of us, and you could do something different in that case. I moved to wild back in RR, because I found the standard meta to be dull and I hated facing all of the popular combo decks back then. I decided to make a ladder-worthy Thief Priest list, which would counter most of the meta decks, and not only did I have fun, but I also reached legend twice. If you feel burnt-out some day, you can always change your deck-list (try out a different play-style or something completely casual), the mode (arena, solo adventures) or the game itself. Right now I am playing Heroes 3 HotA alongside hs and once my vacation starts, I'm planning on returning to Wotlk and play my beloved Kitty Druid.
Indeed, that's why I find it hard to believe that theory. Nozari is also an existing (minor) warcraft lore character, but then again Reno is not so that wouldn't completely exclude it.
Nice, I was going to say good ole Leeroy Jenkins but that Grom combo (Grombo?) is super dirty. Glad to see that you could “wait no longer” to craft him.
First of all, just to get some good boy points, i just recently turned to this site as my main hearthstone website. Well done with the news coverage, you won me over pretty quickly. Since i moved here i thought i'd take the occasion to add some content myself, even tho i never really did long posts on hearthpwn maybe i can do one here just because.
SO, at the start of the expansion, when dks rotated out, i thought the game would move from the old "infinite value" model to a more oldschool kind of hs where you had to manage your resources more carefully. But it really didnt, actually it got worse, because dks just slooowly gave you value with their hero powers, and everyone had them, now value generation is all over the place.
Following here the things i dont like-->
I don't like conjurer's calling. The card is pretty cool on paper, it's supposed to balance the value it can create with the randomness of the effect, except you can use it pretty consistently cheap mountain giants, with the only results being either 2 mountain giants or 2 grave shamblers, which are basically mountain giants with taunt. I don't have a problem with mountain giant per se, the card is a pretty cool way hand focused control decks can contest the board, but at the moment we don't have bgh anymore as a valuable option to remove it, and if it sticks and a conjurer calling lands, it's pretty much game over (with conjurer calling being twinspell). I really don't like this kind of value because it comes too early in the game and is way too consistent for the value it gives.
I don't like that they put another strong mech removal on warrior. I would have been fine with a generic removal, but with dr boom warrior has too much removal. I don't have a problem with dr boom per se, but the card suffers from deathstalker rexxar syndrome, where he was a perfectly fine card on release, and got completely out of control with the introduction of the new cards. Omega assembly also worsens the problem, as it has the same problem with the cards it generates being too consistently good, which in turn makes the interaction with the dr boom aura stronger.
I don't like bomb hunter, not the concept per se, but i really dont like how the deck interacts with magnetic. When i saw magnetic, and i think a lot of people thought the same, i went "well this mechanic is either gonna be completely useless, or it's gonna be completely overpowered". Matter of fact, magnetic is completely useless in the decks that can't abuse it, and completely broken in the decks that do abuse it. If you manage to make minions stick, it's virtually charge, except the minions that have it don't have bad stats to compensate. "but you can't silence charge" duh, but you can't really silence magnetic either, when every card has magnetic you are not gonna silence every one of them, and even if you do the card most likely already used its value and it's still gona leave behind a body that you can magnetize on.
I don't really like arch thief rafaam either. The effect is very cool, but it was cool as a late game option on elise decks, because you had to decide which removal tools you wanted to use and which you were gonna turn into legendaries. Made for some very cool value battles (incidentally one of my favourite decks was grinder priest with elise and justicar, where the game felt as you were ramping up in power and pretty often games were really close (also a callout to elise ctrl warrior)). Like it is now, it's just another rexxar where you are gonna build the aggroest deck you can make and just drop rafaam to turn into a late game deck if the aggro plan fails. Meh.
SO yeah, i don't like anything sorry, i thought i was going somewhere with this but whatever xD. I just wanted to say what i didn't like and see if anyone else has concerns over this.
Also i didn't give solutions to the stuff, im not some kind of wanna be game designer that is gonna say yeah blizzard is so stupid lmao if i made the cards it would be 10 times better lul. I think if you just write some solutions in a post like this you are gonna get attacked over them. Im just raising the issue, if you guys can think of a "solution" you can share it but i mean, whatever bro do what you want. Some of the stuff they put in the game is flawed at a basic level, i can't just say "remove it from the game" or " yeah let's just make conjurer's calling 10 mana" because the problems are more in the way cards interact with each other than the cards themselves. Hopefully next expansion waters this stuff down enough that it's not as impactful as it is now, blizz pls don't fuck up reno.
--- edit
-- Since i'm getting a lot of replies about rafaam not being that strong, im gonna clarify. When i said that i didn't like rafaam and compared it to rexxar, what i meant was that the cards share a similiar theme where you get to turn an aggro plan into a slower but inconsistent value game. The fact that rexxar got blown completely into overpowerdness by the ww beast package full of rush beasts, lifesteal and poisonus is another discussion. I specifically said that the effect, is actually a pretty fun one to toy with in control decks, citing old elise-the golden monkey decks as an example, but is not the kind of effect in my opinion that should be so easily available as to just put in a single card in your deck for more aggressive strategies. --
So first of all, yeah I will write guide as soon as I can, but nowadays I don't have much time to even be on computer so...:/
But yeah, you catch the strategy correctly, but about C'thun as a Finisher together with your edit - C'thun isn't necessary the finisher, C'thun's Battlecry can be used with Shudderwock again.
Situation which is happening to me all the time is playing Shudderwock on your clear board and u have 100% that u will get it back - Baleful Banker will give him in to your deck, Slasher or Zola will add him to your hand.
Of course if Grumble's Battlecry will bounce them for 1 mana you are good to go, but f.e. if you are playing C'thun before Shudderwock then you most likely want f.e. Slasher's battlecry more than Grumble's - Shudderwock will do 8 dmg (C'thun's Battlecry) instead of 6, it is of course much longer run to go with this one, but that's a way how to play it aswell, and from around 60 games Jepetto didn't hit C'thun even once.
I don't really see a game in which it would hurt you when he will draw C'thun, because of that (Longer) Shudderwock way.
Hope I answered anything, hope u will like it and as I said, I will upload guide with matchups, cards, tech choices and Win Rates as soon as I can:)
So are the evil classes staying evil or will some classes change? Because I'm not sure what league members will be what class, first thoughts I can only think of Elise as druid and Finley as a paladin or hunter
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Yeah, I really miss that spell. Controlling the early- and mid-game is what we need right now. If it wasn't for Bomb Warrior, I am confident, that we wouldn't have needed that much healing either. Lord Jaraxxus would have dealt with most of the slow decks out there.
Well, tbh warlock has been in a worse shape before (Un'goro). At least now we have a lot of playable cards, but we just lack the support for them.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Please don't. It made me smile :)
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Ragnaros the Firelord
Another card that has been a collectible card, boss, hero, and narrator
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
Ozruk
Neutral Elemental
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
I agree, the problem with cards like defile is that it is so useful that no other cheap AOE spells get printed for warlock in year of the raven, so now that year of the mammoth is gone, control warlock is lacking in early game removal.
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Oops. Anyone know how I edit the thread title here?
Guys, Warlock is so bad right now
Really I think Control Warlock is just a couple cards away from being playable, but without those cards its just awful. I miss Defile so much.
Dragon Mech Handbuff Paladin
Nice one, at least it's an original combination :)
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
Every time I win with Pogo Rogue vs Hunter, Zoolock or Token Druid, THAT's a feeling!
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next Art:
Must be a spell, and it must interact directly with an opponents minion
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
Why not? Just put it in :)
Are the League of Explorers Taking on the League of E.V.I.L? Expansion Teaser
Maybe, since Paladins used to play with Murlocs for a while, will be the class for Finley?
And since Mage was the only class of the four using the singleton archetype that showed up in the first place with Reno, will be the ones to get him?
The other two seem logical, though. And if the next expansion is half as good as LoE was, we're going to have some fun days ahead.
Playing Wild
I am a Wild main, and i like it because i have more freedom about deckbuilding, and i don't want my preciously crafted cards to become worthless.
Yet i hate stupidly broken interactions, such as those provided by Big Priest, but also Bloodbloom.
Those interactions are inherently flawed, but become clearly broken only later on, typically when already rotated into Wild. But the flaw is there since the release, when the card is Standard.
So i don't even hate the broken part of Wild, i hate the flawed design policy adopted in this game since forever, and never acknowledged as dangerous, simply because they don't care of Wild.
As if a card like Darkest Hour could ever become playable, without providing broken value...
Wild players like power, but not brokenness.
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
It will never be as consistent as a double Discover every turn. Not even close.
At what turn is the crazy stuff allowed to start
So I hear a general consensus that if the crazy stuff is not too crazy. This means either that it happens at a turn that something can be done against it, or that crazy does not immediately ends the game in one turn. And you should design your deck so it can handle crazy. That's also called teching in cards to handle certain popular craziness. For instance, when rogues where killing you with their weapons, you tech in a weapon removal since otherwise you can't cope with the crazy rogue weaponry at turn 4-5-6. Now with all the magnetic craziness people tech for silence so your magnetized minion gets a little less crazy.
And basically, when stuff is so crazy nothing can stop it reasonably we then call it OP and in need of a nerf. So in fact its an important issue for HS, since we somehow want a "fair fight" and a "balanced meta" where more than two decks can live.
And this is all about standard. In wild crazy is the norm so to speak, that's why its called wild. But even here too crazy is not funny anymore witness the big priest problem.
Maybe also related to OTK decks: if your OTK deck would be a guaranteed certified win at turn 5, this would be a problem. A certified win at turn 13, not so much.
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
For the moment, it's another of those cards that benefit from a better pool where to pick from so you never know how powerful it might get
Playing Wild
@ OP
Regarding your first two sentences - it's just what Tuscarora87 said, there is a big misconception of what wild is. It depends on where you are looking at. If you are looking only at the decks you despised in the past or at busted synergies, which your opponents can pull off early on, it's not a surprise, that some people disrespect it.
I personally like it due to various reasons - it offers more variety in terms of play-styles and archtypes (this will be even more obvious, after Vanish and Mind Blast get HoF and we start to see only two-dimensional builds popping up for rogue), it features more cards (which offer greater freedom regarding deck-building), it is the cheapest format in the long term (the longer you stay in the game, the bigger your collection will be and at one point it will greately exceed the cards you are missing in both formats) and it offers more meme opportunities. I must mention the undeniable fact, that wild has its own problems like enabling busted combos, which may hinder a lot of decks from seeing competitive play and feel too oppressive - e.g. pre-nerfed Reno Priest, Giantlock, AK74 Druid, pre-nerfed Kingsbane Mill Rogue and now the infamous Big Priest and Darkest Hour. And people would want to avoid them, especially if they played against them in standard and were left with a bad taste in their mouths (like the case with Big Priest in KoFT and K&C, which devolved into Resurrect Combo Priest in RR). Though tbh standard has its own problems too and due to the small amount of cards there some cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius would feel oppressive as well, because not every class can answer them properly. The power-level there is distributed poorly, which is another reason why some people prefer to enter the eternal format.
As you can see, everything depends on where you are looking at. If you are afraid of getting burnt-out someday, that's ok, because it happens to all of us, and you could do something different in that case. I moved to wild back in RR, because I found the standard meta to be dull and I hated facing all of the popular combo decks back then. I decided to make a ladder-worthy Thief Priest list, which would counter most of the meta decks, and not only did I have fun, but I also reached legend twice. If you feel burnt-out some day, you can always change your deck-list (try out a different play-style or something completely casual), the mode (arena, solo adventures) or the game itself. Right now I am playing Heroes 3 HotA alongside hs and once my vacation starts, I'm planning on returning to Wotlk and play my beloved Kitty Druid.
[Theory] Reno Jackson is Nozari himself
Indeed, that's why I find it hard to believe that theory. Nozari is also an existing (minor) warcraft lore character, but then again Reno is not so that wouldn't completely exclude it.
[Game] Name another card that has the same...
one of you was a bit late, but im gonna answer both of you
Dragon Consort
Swampqueen Hagatha
5/5 in stats
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
Rafaam is on a much lower scale of Randomness than Rexxar. Similar principle, but not really comparable about their impact.
Fibonacci's Fast Bomb Warrior
Nice, I was going to say good ole Leeroy Jenkins but that Grom combo (Grombo?) is super dirty. Glad to see that you could “wait no longer” to craft him.
"I don't like how blizzard is handling value" or my personal "i don't like" list.
First of all, just to get some good boy points, i just recently turned to this site as my main hearthstone website. Well done with the news coverage, you won me over pretty quickly. Since i moved here i thought i'd take the occasion to add some content myself, even tho i never really did long posts on hearthpwn maybe i can do one here just because.
SO, at the start of the expansion, when dks rotated out, i thought the game would move from the old "infinite value" model to a more oldschool kind of hs where you had to manage your resources more carefully. But it really didnt, actually it got worse, because dks just slooowly gave you value with their hero powers, and everyone had them, now value generation is all over the place.
Following here the things i dont like-->
I don't like conjurer's calling. The card is pretty cool on paper, it's supposed to balance the value it can create with the randomness of the effect, except you can use it pretty consistently cheap mountain giants, with the only results being either 2 mountain giants or 2 grave shamblers, which are basically mountain giants with taunt. I don't have a problem with mountain giant per se, the card is a pretty cool way hand focused control decks can contest the board, but at the moment we don't have bgh anymore as a valuable option to remove it, and if it sticks and a conjurer calling lands, it's pretty much game over (with conjurer calling being twinspell). I really don't like this kind of value because it comes too early in the game and is way too consistent for the value it gives.
I don't like that they put another strong mech removal on warrior. I would have been fine with a generic removal, but with dr boom warrior has too much removal. I don't have a problem with dr boom per se, but the card suffers from deathstalker rexxar syndrome, where he was a perfectly fine card on release, and got completely out of control with the introduction of the new cards. Omega assembly also worsens the problem, as it has the same problem with the cards it generates being too consistently good, which in turn makes the interaction with the dr boom aura stronger.
I don't like bomb hunter, not the concept per se, but i really dont like how the deck interacts with magnetic. When i saw magnetic, and i think a lot of people thought the same, i went "well this mechanic is either gonna be completely useless, or it's gonna be completely overpowered". Matter of fact, magnetic is completely useless in the decks that can't abuse it, and completely broken in the decks that do abuse it. If you manage to make minions stick, it's virtually charge, except the minions that have it don't have bad stats to compensate. "but you can't silence charge" duh, but you can't really silence magnetic either, when every card has magnetic you are not gonna silence every one of them, and even if you do the card most likely already used its value and it's still gona leave behind a body that you can magnetize on.
I don't really like arch thief rafaam either. The effect is very cool, but it was cool as a late game option on elise decks, because you had to decide which removal tools you wanted to use and which you were gonna turn into legendaries. Made for some very cool value battles (incidentally one of my favourite decks was grinder priest with elise and justicar, where the game felt as you were ramping up in power and pretty often games were really close (also a callout to elise ctrl warrior)). Like it is now, it's just another rexxar where you are gonna build the aggroest deck you can make and just drop rafaam to turn into a late game deck if the aggro plan fails. Meh.
SO yeah, i don't like anything sorry, i thought i was going somewhere with this but whatever xD. I just wanted to say what i didn't like and see if anyone else has concerns over this.
Also i didn't give solutions to the stuff, im not some kind of wanna be game designer that is gonna say yeah blizzard is so stupid lmao if i made the cards it would be 10 times better lul. I think if you just write some solutions in a post like this you are gonna get attacked over them. Im just raising the issue, if you guys can think of a "solution" you can share it but i mean, whatever bro do what you want. Some of the stuff they put in the game is flawed at a basic level, i can't just say "remove it from the game" or " yeah let's just make conjurer's calling 10 mana" because the problems are more in the way cards interact with each other than the cards themselves. Hopefully next expansion waters this stuff down enough that it's not as impactful as it is now, blizz pls don't fuck up reno.
--- edit
-- Since i'm getting a lot of replies about rafaam not being that strong, im gonna clarify. When i said that i didn't like rafaam and compared it to rexxar, what i meant was that the cards share a similiar theme where you get to turn an aggro plan into a slower but inconsistent value game. The fact that rexxar got blown completely into overpowerdness by the ww beast package full of rush beasts, lifesteal and poisonus is another discussion. I specifically said that the effect, is actually a pretty fun one to toy with in control decks, citing old elise-the golden monkey decks as an example, but is not the kind of effect in my opinion that should be so easily available as to just put in a single card in your deck for more aggressive strategies. --
GrovesK's Reno Shaman
Hello there,
So first of all, yeah I will write guide as soon as I can, but nowadays I don't have much time to even be on computer so...:/
But yeah, you catch the strategy correctly, but about C'thun as a Finisher together with your edit - C'thun isn't necessary the finisher, C'thun's Battlecry can be used with Shudderwock again.
Situation which is happening to me all the time is playing Shudderwock on your clear board and u have 100% that u will get it back - Baleful Banker will give him in to your deck, Slasher or Zola will add him to your hand.
Of course if Grumble's Battlecry will bounce them for 1 mana you are good to go, but f.e. if you are playing C'thun before Shudderwock then you most likely want f.e. Slasher's battlecry more than Grumble's - Shudderwock will do 8 dmg (C'thun's Battlecry) instead of 6, it is of course much longer run to go with this one, but that's a way how to play it aswell, and from around 60 games Jepetto didn't hit C'thun even once.
I don't really see a game in which it would hurt you when he will draw C'thun, because of that (Longer) Shudderwock way.
Hope I answered anything, hope u will like it and as I said, I will upload guide with matchups, cards, tech choices and Win Rates as soon as I can:)
Are the League of Explorers Taking on the League of E.V.I.L? Expansion Teaser
So are the evil classes staying evil or will some classes change? Because I'm not sure what league members will be what class, first thoughts I can only think of Elise as druid and Finley as a paladin or hunter
The Pepper Thread - Share Some Good Vibes!
Murloc Shaman is disgusting....
And I love it.... 😊