Mech Hunter is already strong, this might push it over the top (hope to be wrong) I also see a possible inclusion of necromantic (the buffed version) possibly in mech deathrattle Hunter. But that's one I'm less sure off
Netdecking always happens even when there wasn't a net, any sort of communication about what people are playing will do it.
This is SO true. During the early days of M:TG at local shops and/or tourney's, people would watch to see what the players that were winning were playing. Then play those cards, and maybe add their own little twist to the decks. Maybe to change it up a lil, maybe they didn't have all the needed cards. The "Net" just made this process much easier.
From my experience, Warrior mirror matches (bomb or control) often come down to when each player gets Dr.Boom on board, RNG of his Hero Power, and best use of Drone Delivery.
I have tried using different techniques of when to load my opponent up on bombs, but, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure it matters. Playing that way just gives them more time to build armor, and even if I stick them with every possible bomb, they just eat them.
I have also seen a lot more bomb warriors running Elysiana with the rise of control warrior, and the outcome again seems to fall on Dr. Boom. (and Ely's cards).
I could add a warning that would display on saving but there are no plans to put these hard limits in place. Sharing Arena and decks people have used in various Adventure modes is something we want to support so leaving it open like that allows us to do just that. Same would go for Tavern Brawls should they have weird deckbuilding rules.
Thats fine for other modes, but on ladder those hard limits exist from the get-go. This wasnt an issue on Hearthpwn since you could always check the "Arena deck" box and put in as many copies of cards as you want. I dont get why this functionality was taken away instead of brought over.
Netdecking always happens even when there wasnt a net, any sort of communication about what people are playing will do it.
The only solution is something that blizzard could do but probably wont, and thats check to see if you're using a netdeck (easily done) and make sure you're in the queue with others doing the same.
If you're not using a netdeck then it could prioritize playing somebody who isnt also.
How the hell can Blizzard tell if a deck is a netdeck or if it was built by the players themselves? Makes no sense at all. There is such a thing as independent discovery and development. But more importantly, once you face someone with your "original deck", your opponents can then just build and queue up the deck they just faced. As more people do this, the faster a new deck archetype spreads. Netdeck sites just accelerate this natural process.
Crystology was already good so it will be straight-up bonkers. Unexpected Results looks like it could be really good tempo. Extra Arms is a direct upgrade to Blessing of Kings, so it will be run in most non-combat priest decks. Thunderhead is a 3/6 elemental for 4 with a big upside, so I'm sure it will find a home, maybe in wild. I don't see any others seeing play.
Netdecking always happens even when there wasnt a net, any sort of communication about what people are playing will do it.
The only solution is something that blizzard could do but probably wont, and thats check to see if you're using a netdeck (easily done) and make sure you're in the queue with others doing the same.
If you're not using a netdeck then it could prioritize playing somebody who isnt also.
My inbox on HearthPwn was always open to people to showcase their unique decks and guides, many of which made it to news posts. I also always encouraged people who wrote guides or wanted feedback to take their deck to the relevant class forums and to spark up discussion. Unfortunately, many people would just create a thread, drop the deck code in it, and hit post. Not a single talking point about the deck.
I disagree that a deckcode or screenshot saved to your twitter feed is better than an interface actually built for finding decks.
Definitely believe me though when I say we'll have better deck discoverability than HearthPwn. I know there are always flaws to every system. One very basic thing I'd like to do is pull a half-Blizzard where we could show people that have cards in their collections imported to the site random deck guides that they have all the cards for. Building in a little bit of bias towards content that hasn't been seen but appears to be quality will help out with that a ton.
There's also going to be much more curation of decks. Although I 100% will always respect voting from a community because democracy is awesome, there have been great instances where even decks we have highlighted in a news post end up not being seen as much as they could have been. Expect an overhaul of the homepage to find more decks easier. We'll also be spotlighting wild in a dedicated block to encourage more people to check out the format and give people that like to create that kind of content better ways to get it seen. So basically expect dedicated blocks for:
Standard Decks
Wild Decks
Pro Decks
Curated Decks (Chosen by Staff)
We may even have a section that showcases a random deck guide created recently. Also, I could see a point in time where the front page blocks will only ever show decks that have guides attached to them. It helps curb a lot of the empty decks we see
Why a separate topic when you are talking about the very thing the other topic is ..err talking about?
We don't need 10 threads of the same topic.
Cause if you read the post you would see that it deals with predictability in the current meta and not overall so was more of a post of the current meta and the limited amount of decks currently in the meta. But thanks for your complaint and adding so much to the discussion. And as MProdigy said it is just that; lack of creativity or maybe the player base has diminished and we are just left with netdeckers.
It still feels rather similar, but still I apologize for the post.
As for the topic, I don't think it's anything new. The meta grinding down to just a few top tier decks is about as common as multiplayer in general. People played pirate warrior about a year ago, tempo shaman before then, secret paladin before then, miracle rogue before then. It's why Ryu fireball spam is so common, and why Dio and Sieghart left a bad taste in my mouth. It's why certain old timely RTS players hate M&Ms and why too many people loved Donatello at the arcade.
People.. will ALWAYS.. netdeck. Even when a net didn't exist.
I don't believe it's gotten worse because it's always been bad. Secret Paladin took less time to be netdecked than it did to actually be a good deck: people were willing to spam a bad aggro version of it until the better tempo version was found. Folks screamed about how everyone was C'thuning for the first week, then quickly jumped into aggro Shaman with 'Four mana 7/7s'.
There has been a change in that the quality of decks have pushed up faster, but that's because the actual innovators have gotten a lot better. You could take advantage of the population playing bad C'thun decks and horrible aggro paladins. Now the decks are quicker to get.. not perfected, but good enough for ladder and we have a lot fewer people without enough of a collection to run them with. You can't even rely on F2Pers not having enough. Jeesh I opened the packs I plan to open and I still had 8k dust wasting away and more than enough cash to spend on the single player content.
So that's changed. But the majority of the playerbase jumping on trends and fads. That's always been there. Not sure how people haven't noticed it until now.
It's mroe than just 'is it a bad thing or a good thing'. The whole concept of 'meta' is the assumption that most players play the same way and copy each other. If they didn't a 'meta' wouldn't exist. The whole point of 'beating the meta' is beating those netdecks either through countering them or doing it better. It's a basic requirement to showing you can compete in a competition.
Netdecking isn't a curse or a bad thing, or good thing. It's just a thing. It's the 'surf'. You don't rage against it. You just grab a board and ride it. Or drown.
[...] Everyone has different reasons and purposes for wanting to create deck lists for themselves on their own accounts, from trying to get the most upvotes and influence the meta to just saving a decklist for later where it is easily accessible [...]
Well, we already know it from Hearthpwn that the voting system has a lot of flaws. When a deck is promoted by an article, that deck will be "the deck" for deck type X, when a specific well known user posts decks those will get more attention because a lot of people follow them already. Moreover it was important to post decks on a specific day to have a chance to get into the "new decks for class X" section and if you were lucky enough and the first visitors upvote it goes upstairs but the same applies for the other direction.
The bloated database system we know from Hearthpwn was horrible for deckbuilders. If you create a unique deck, write a guide and share this deck with others you want feedback. Hearthpwn could not deliver that and it's very sad if this site goes the same way.
Oh, and if you just want a site to save your own decks then you can do that better with a deckcode/screenshot on your twitter account - the chances you get feedback are way higher than on any deck database site.
But I don't want to be impatient, we will see how the site will develop the next weeks/months.
Yes, I think so. It would be strange if it didn't go up along with everything else, buffs and Arena rotation.
Usually those special quests and other things went live around 19:00 or 20:00 CEST if I remember correctly.
Can't wait to try new things. I'm only little worried that Hunter with 4-mana 3/6 Necromechanic might be too crazy :D
I don't have that card at the minute. I will mostly be enjoying a cheaper storm bringer in shaman. I use the card anyway, but I have a new mech to use at least.
any idea what time it goes live then, probably in sync with some american time?
This will be an immediate include in most mech decks. This will be interesting to see how it changes the meta, along with the buffs and rogue nerfs. Get your anti-mech tech people!
Had trouble copying the code (the copied code is AAEBAa0KBNaZA9DBAoS7Au72Ag3/nQOfmwOYxAKCtAKBsgLmBKaYA6wBvAiWBasE4xG0/AIA but this code won't paste into the game client):
### Library Miracle # Class: Mage # Format: Wild # # 1x (0) Freezing Potion # 2x (1) Babbling Book # 2x (1) Ice Lance # 2x (1) Magic Trick # 2x (1) Mirror Image # 1x (1) Open the Waygate # 2x (1) Ray of Frost # 2x (1) Tome of Intellect # 2x (2) Frostbolt # 2x (2) Primordial Glyph # 2x (2) Research Project # 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice # 2x (3) Arcane Intellect # 2x (3) Flamewaker # 1x (3) Stargazer Luna # 1x (4) Archmage Vargoth # 2x (12) Arcane Giant # AAEBAc2xAgSEuwLQwQLu9gLWmQMNrAGrBOYElgW8COMRgbICgrQCmMQCtPwCppgDn5sD/50DAA== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I might be wrong but... Rise of Mechs event is starting today, June 3th, right?
Maybe they prepared some new Quest related to upcoming Event? That wouldn't surprise me, because in the past, people reported similar strange daily quest behaviour, whenever there was any "Event" quests coming... (additional, unique one-time quests).
that sounds promising actually. I definitely had a clean log last night.
so will we get Sn1p Sn4p later today do you think?
From my limited experience, I've been enjoying Zayle far more than Whizbang. Neither of them are great, neither suck, but I think overall Zayle's decks are better and more fun than Whizbangs.
New Neutral Minion - SN1P-SN4P
Mech Hunter is already strong, this might push it over the top (hope to be wrong) I also see a possible inclusion of necromantic (the buffed version) possibly in mech deathrattle Hunter. But that's one I'm less sure off
Edit: freezing trap is a great counter ;-)copy of far sight and sandbinder needed for this OTK idea, please?
What is the otk? I don't see it? (Well not without discounting something with far sight at least)
Netdecking and the real problem it brings
This is SO true. During the early days of M:TG at local shops and/or tourney's, people would watch to see what the players that were winning were playing. Then play those cards, and maybe add their own little twist to the decks. Maybe to change it up a lil, maybe they didn't have all the needed cards.
The "Net" just made this process much easier.
Bomb warrior mirror match
From my experience, Warrior mirror matches (bomb or control) often come down to when each player gets Dr.Boom on board, RNG of his Hero Power, and best use of Drone Delivery.
I have tried using different techniques of when to load my opponent up on bombs, but, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure it matters. Playing that way just gives them more time to build armor, and even if I stick them with every possible bomb, they just eat them.
I have also seen a lot more bomb warriors running Elysiana with the rise of control warrior, and the outcome again seems to fall on Dr. Boom. (and Ely's cards).
Reminder: The First Ever Card Buffs Arrive This Week! Prepare for Mechs!
The meta shall be shooken. Or is it shakened? Shook?
Shit, this is going to change the meta... positively.
Bomb warrior mirror match
Interesting. So he tries to play as aggressive as possible and get as many bombs shuffled in with Augmented Elekk I'm guessing?
Please Limit the Copies of Cards and the Total Deck Size in Deckbuilder
Thats fine for other modes, but on ladder those hard limits exist from the get-go. This wasnt an issue on Hearthpwn since you could always check the "Arena deck" box and put in as many copies of cards as you want. I dont get why this functionality was taken away instead of brought over.
Netdecking and the real problem it brings
How the hell can Blizzard tell if a deck is a netdeck or if it was built by the players themselves? Makes no sense at all. There is such a thing as independent discovery and development. But more importantly, once you face someone with your "original deck", your opponents can then just build and queue up the deck they just faced. As more people do this, the faster a new deck archetype spreads. Netdeck sites just accelerate this natural process.
Reminder: The First Ever Card Buffs Arrive This Week! Prepare for Mechs!
Crystology was already good so it will be straight-up bonkers. Unexpected Results looks like it could be really good tempo. Extra Arms is a direct upgrade to Blessing of Kings, so it will be run in most non-combat priest decks. Thunderhead is a 3/6 elemental for 4 with a big upside, so I'm sure it will find a home, maybe in wild. I don't see any others seeing play.
Reminder: The First Ever Card Buffs Arrive This Week! Prepare for Mechs!
Exciting!
Netdecking and the real problem it brings
Netdecking always happens even when there wasnt a net, any sort of communication about what people are playing will do it.
The only solution is something that blizzard could do but probably wont, and thats check to see if you're using a netdeck (easily done) and make sure you're in the queue with others doing the same.
If you're not using a netdeck then it could prioritize playing somebody who isnt also.
Please prevent deck spammers early enough, don't let it degenerate like on Hearthpwn
My inbox on HearthPwn was always open to people to showcase their unique decks and guides, many of which made it to news posts. I also always encouraged people who wrote guides or wanted feedback to take their deck to the relevant class forums and to spark up discussion. Unfortunately, many people would just create a thread, drop the deck code in it, and hit post. Not a single talking point about the deck.
I disagree that a deckcode or screenshot saved to your twitter feed is better than an interface actually built for finding decks.
Definitely believe me though when I say we'll have better deck discoverability than HearthPwn. I know there are always flaws to every system. One very basic thing I'd like to do is pull a half-Blizzard where we could show people that have cards in their collections imported to the site random deck guides that they have all the cards for. Building in a little bit of bias towards content that hasn't been seen but appears to be quality will help out with that a ton.
There's also going to be much more curation of decks. Although I 100% will always respect voting from a community because democracy is awesome, there have been great instances where even decks we have highlighted in a news post end up not being seen as much as they could have been. Expect an overhaul of the homepage to find more decks easier. We'll also be spotlighting wild in a dedicated block to encourage more people to check out the format and give people that like to create that kind of content better ways to get it seen. So basically expect dedicated blocks for:
We may even have a section that showcases a random deck guide created recently. Also, I could see a point in time where the front page blocks will only ever show decks that have guides attached to them. It helps curb a lot of the empty decks we see
Just wondering when the deck import export will be in
Already exists. Every deck page has a button called "Hearthstone Deck Code" on the Copy Deck line.
A button for it will also make its way to embedded deck widgets on news posts and similar in the future.
Just wondering when the deck import export will be in
I'm sure you're working on it , just wanting to know the ETA.
thanks
Netdecking and the real problem it brings
It still feels rather similar, but still I apologize for the post.
As for the topic, I don't think it's anything new. The meta grinding down to just a few top tier decks is about as common as multiplayer in general. People played pirate warrior about a year ago, tempo shaman before then, secret paladin before then, miracle rogue before then. It's why Ryu fireball spam is so common, and why Dio and Sieghart left a bad taste in my mouth. It's why certain old timely RTS players hate M&Ms and why too many people loved Donatello at the arcade.
People.. will ALWAYS.. netdeck. Even when a net didn't exist.
I don't believe it's gotten worse because it's always been bad. Secret Paladin took less time to be netdecked than it did to actually be a good deck: people were willing to spam a bad aggro version of it until the better tempo version was found. Folks screamed about how everyone was C'thuning for the first week, then quickly jumped into aggro Shaman with 'Four mana 7/7s'.
There has been a change in that the quality of decks have pushed up faster, but that's because the actual innovators have gotten a lot better. You could take advantage of the population playing bad C'thun decks and horrible aggro paladins. Now the decks are quicker to get.. not perfected, but good enough for ladder and we have a lot fewer people without enough of a collection to run them with. You can't even rely on F2Pers not having enough. Jeesh I opened the packs I plan to open and I still had 8k dust wasting away and more than enough cash to spend on the single player content.
So that's changed. But the majority of the playerbase jumping on trends and fads. That's always been there. Not sure how people haven't noticed it until now.
It's mroe than just 'is it a bad thing or a good thing'. The whole concept of 'meta' is the assumption that most players play the same way and copy each other. If they didn't a 'meta' wouldn't exist. The whole point of 'beating the meta' is beating those netdecks either through countering them or doing it better. It's a basic requirement to showing you can compete in a competition.
Netdecking isn't a curse or a bad thing, or good thing. It's just a thing. It's the 'surf'. You don't rage against it. You just grab a board and ride it. Or drown.
Please prevent deck spammers early enough, don't let it degenerate like on Hearthpwn
Anyone else just get 3 quests?
I don't have that card at the minute. I will mostly be enjoying a cheaper storm bringer in shaman. I use the card anyway, but I have a new mech to use at least.
any idea what time it goes live then, probably in sync with some american time?
New Neutral Minion - SN1P-SN4P
This will be an immediate include in most mech decks. This will be interesting to see how it changes the meta, along with the buffs and rogue nerfs. Get your anti-mech tech people!
New Neutral Minion - SN1P-SN4P
This is going to be fun. Meh hunter all over the place?
Had trouble copying the code (the copied code is AAEBAa0KBNaZA9DBAoS7Au72Ag3/nQOfmwOYxAKCtAKBsgLmBKaYA6wBvAiWBasE4xG0/AIA but this code won't paste into the game client):
### Library Miracle
# Class: Mage
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (0) Freezing Potion
# 2x (1) Babbling Book
# 2x (1) Ice Lance
# 2x (1) Magic Trick
# 2x (1) Mirror Image
# 1x (1) Open the Waygate
# 2x (1) Ray of Frost
# 2x (1) Tome of Intellect
# 2x (2) Frostbolt
# 2x (2) Primordial Glyph
# 2x (2) Research Project
# 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
# 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
# 2x (3) Flamewaker
# 1x (3) Stargazer Luna
# 1x (4) Archmage Vargoth
# 2x (12) Arcane Giant
#
AAEBAc2xAgSEuwLQwQLu9gLWmQMNrAGrBOYElgW8COMRgbICgrQCmMQCtPwCppgDn5sD/50DAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Anyone else just get 3 quests?
Yes, I think so. It would be strange if it didn't go up along with everything else, buffs and Arena rotation.
Usually those special quests and other things went live around 19:00 or 20:00 CEST if I remember correctly.
Can't wait to try new things. I'm only little worried that Hunter with 4-mana 3/6 Necromechanic might be too crazy :D
Group Therapy! Need to blow off some steam? Mega salty? Here's the place!
Fucking Big/Rez Priest can die. So cancerous to play against, especially when they top-deck MASS REZ TWICE WHEN I'VE ALMOST WON >:(
Anyone else just get 3 quests?
that sounds promising actually. I definitely had a clean log last night.
so will we get Sn1p Sn4p later today do you think?
Zayle, Shadow Cloak
From my limited experience, I've been enjoying Zayle far more than Whizbang. Neither of them are great, neither suck, but I think overall Zayle's decks are better and more fun than Whizbangs.
Zayle, Shadow Cloak
I could see a Zayle vs Whizbang tavern brawl