Not unless you change Amet's wording from "Whenever you play a minion.." to "After you play a minion....". "Whenever"-triggers always happen before the thing that triggered them resolves.
As for changing the interaction, I think Amet & cancer priest are strong enough without additional help.
If the argument is that you want to cut all the cheap spells for utility minions so that Summoner always hits high-cost spells and you still have game against aggro, I'd get rid of Scalebane and Primordial drake in favour of more cheap stuff like Amalgam and Twilight guardian, maybe an MCT. Once you have 5+ mana you have big spells and big spell minions to cast, you don't really want to be mucking about with dragons.
The awkward thing about big druid spells + dragons is that most of the worthwhile stuff is 6+ mana, making it really awkward to efficiently spend your mana on later turns.
I'm a bit at a loss what the dragons are even doing in this deck: if the goal is to shore up the early game with EG Blackwing Technician & Twilight guardian, why is every last dragon a 1-of? Wouldn't you want to hit at least those cards consistently every match?
On an even more base level the dragons confuse me because one of the main reasons to go for dragon synergies is so you can cut spells in favour of minions that kinda behave like spells (CF dragon conjurer mage with Book of Specters early in the RoS meta. King Phaoris wants you to have a mitt full of spells, so why not just play the spells?
It really bothers me how much everyone hates this.
It only bothers you because of how much you are letting yourself hate it. Just stop talking about it, stop making such a big deal about it, or any kind of deal about it. and it wont bother you anymore.
You don't understand people with OCD, do you? You can't just stop being bothered by something. That's not how it works.
I understand what OCD is. Most people who say they have OCD just mean they notice a detail and it annoys them. That is not OCD, that is being a normal person. I am sure there are some people playing hearthstone who have Obsessive-Compulsion Disorder. but most people who hate the 5 gold so much don't have OCD but are just making it more annoying for themselves by obsessing over it and buying arena runs just to get rid of it.
Most people would have the 5 gold bother them less if they would just stop obsessing over it so much. I am not saying this is true for everyone, but most people are just making this worse for themselves.
Even if that's all true that still doesn't change that "just stop letting it bother you" is the least productive response to valid criticism ever. If it's something stupid and annoying that could easily be fixed, why shouldn't you let that bother you? Why shouldn't you voice your annoyance about it?
Problems that aren't voiced aren't heard and tend not to be resolved.
I too am neurotic like that. I would be overjoyed if blizzard eliminated 5 gold increments from the game because they don't do anything other than trigger people with OCD. It wouldn't even affect the balance of arena or w/e because you can get the same statistical spread of results with 10 gold increments instead of 5.
I have bought arena tickets for no other purpose than to get rid of that 5 gold, I'm not even kidding. Conversely it's one of the reasons I stopped playing arena, as that is the primary cause of appendix gold to begin with.
^ Most people will only look at the OP before replying, so no. Adding a clarification to it would probably put an end to most of these "b-but preventing card draw" drive-by non-responses.
I think I prefer cards where shuffling cards into the enemy deck is actually a benefit on its own rather than a straight up anti-reno design. Think of Beneath the Grounds or The Darkness, or for that matter warrior bombs.
Now granted, neither of those two cards are particularly good, but the concept in itself is decent: compare to Fal'dorei Strider, which is basically Beneath the Grounds on a 4/4 body.
I'd much rather have a playable card that happens to be super spicy against Reno decks than one that is basically useless except for hosing reno. For example you could have an overstatted minion (2 mana 3/3, say) that shuffles 3 1/1 hunters into the opponent's deck that get played when drawn, comparable to the 'hunted' cycle from MtG's Ravnica set.
Quick question: I vaguely recall back in the Un'goro days having heard/read that discover also gives you higher odds at finding cards from the newest set. EG Primordial Glyph had a heightened chance of giving Meteor or a second glyph, Stonehill Defender had increased odds of spawning more stonehill defenders and Sunkeeper Tarims, etc.
Did the last expansion bonus also get removed in this latest patch? Is it still there? Have I been imagining it all along? I couldn't find any documentation on this, but like I said, I could have sworn I heard about this being in the game at the time.
I'm really annoyed that they had to fundamentally alter how discover works just to correct for the ridiculous amount of overstatted OP minions warrior keeps getting. This should have been addressed by taking a wrecking ball to the warrior pool of discoverable minions rather than taking a dump on discover itself. Omega Devastator and Eternium Rover should have been nerfed directly, Tomb Warden and Armegadillo shouldn't be mechs, etc.
I also really really dislike the fact that blizzard doesn't give a big public announcement about rule changes the same way they do for individual card nerfs: these changes affect the game more substantively and unlike a card change, you can't tell it has occurred by looking at the card. You won't know things are different until it happens to you in a game, which tends to be an awful experience. Just announce the flipping rules changes blizzard, c'mon.
If the idea is to blow the opponent up with 2 pyroblasts to the face, wouldn't you rather run a bunch of freezes and Ice block? A lot of the defensive/utility minions here just seem like worse options compared to the mage toolkit of control spells. And if the argument is that Dragon's Fury requires you to have expensive spells, just run different board clears and freezes: after all it doesn't matter how many stats your opponent has on board when you pyroblast them dead.
I really don't understand why these kinds of fundamental, wide-reaching changes aren't announced with the same kind of pomp and fanfare as card-specific nerfs. Arguably they're more impactful, and yet they get stealth-implemented with only a mention in the changelog, if you're lucky. It's ridiculous. I remember the last time they pulled this shit I thought the game was buggy when my opponent Cleaved a single minion on my board.
It really is a terrible gaming experience to think you know how the game works only to get clowned on by some unannounced major rules change. FFS Blizz, just flipping tell us about this stuff. We won't bite (... hard).
As for the change itself, I don't like it. If this was done to put warrior in its place then it's a post-hoc attempt to fix something that should obviously have been caught during playtesting (or even just during design because it's incredibly obvious): Giving Warrior a million overstatted minions with upsides and making them all mechs was never going to end well. Instead of bending the rules to make it work, they should have un-meched a couple of these dudes and maybe hit omega devastator and eternium rover with the nerfstick. Instead, now the discover mechanic itself and all of the other classes have to suffer for the sins of Dr. Boom. Exasperating.
The secret one doesn't seem to work, and the quest one also brings up Questing Explorer (not sure if intended), but I appreciate the added functionality.
I can't help but feel that highlander decks are so dull to play and play against. Once you know your opponent has only 1 of each spell (beyond discoverable shenanigans), playing around things becomes trivial. Most of the time, it's correct to gamble they don't have that perfect answer. If not, yay! You won! If they did, scramble for Plan B.
I get that it's fun to make each card selected that much more meaningful, but the play and counter-play seem stale.
Anyone else agree?
I get where you're coming from, but I think these decks are unsatisfying to play against rather than boring, because it feels like Russian Roullette more than strategy. The archetype exists and is balanced around cards that are ridiculously OP but require you to build an inconsistent highlander deck. Consequently, when you draw and play those cards and the right answers, it feels like a total high-roll, but when you brick on your draws it feels like you lost to your own deck rather than the opponent. Similarly, when playing against these decks there isn't much point to playing around certain cards, you just have to pray to RNGesus; if you win the victory is tainted by the knowledge that it's due in part to the opponent's poor draws rather than your skill.
I played a lot of Kazakus-era highlander back in the day, and even though I enjoyed the heck out of it, the design of these enabler-cards never sat right with me. I think I'd rather have a dedicated highlander format than cards in the standard pool that break all norms of acceptable power level to entice players to play it there.
Completely anecdotal, but I had a ridiculous winrate with miracle/burn shaman the other day. Kept running into highlander hunters and battlecry shamans with the odd mage or priest thrown in, and none of those decks/classes seem to be able to handle that sort of aggression very well. I assume aggro rogue would do very well against those decks as well. It certainly helped that I didn't run into a single warrior.
The one card that I'd like to have in classic above all others is Dirty Rat. The main reason is that the card provides a possible answer to a ton of decks that can kill you from hand and that otherwise cannot be touched with evergreen cards. Instead of having to print a bunch of new counters every year(which they all keep giving to Warlock for some unfathomable reason: Demonic Project, Gnomeferatu, etc.) they could add Dirty Rat to classic, similar to how Mind Control Tech or Acidic Swamp Ooze are staple neutral tech cards. What's more, Dirty Rat is potentially game-winning but not at all overpowered, and effective use of the card requires skill, knowledge of the meta and a little luck.
Regarding Defile, as others have pointed out that card is waaay too strong to be made evergreen. I think we're just overdue a small AoE spell a la Demonwrath (Impferno just doesn't cut it).
Hadn't played ranked at all this month so I figured I'd get my five wins in while I still can. Ended up climbing six ranks with only one loss, and not a single Warrior to ruin my fun. Feels good man.
Because unlike most aggro decks, Priest was playing in a way that is pretty much impossible to answer for most decks. If they land Northshire turn 1, what can you do? Coin a Frostbolt or Pain? That's about it. IF you're a Mage or Priest. It's a Northshire and you're against Priest so playing your own 1 drop doesn't cut it, you can't wear down the Cleric's health over time because of healing AND they draw cards to boot. Turn after, Extra Arms. Now that minion you cannot trade into is a 3/5. Hope you have a Fireb...no wait, it's turn two, and your game is over. Now obviously a major part of that issue is the fact Blizz refuses to learn that 1/3 statline for 1 is not ok, let alone with additional abilities, but priests can be about as much trouble with any minion, say a Lightwarden. Even though Lightwarden is much easier to answer, the truth is that in most cases the cards that answer it aren't ones you want to play (Arcane Shot) because they're too narrow. So just allowing Priest to have a snowbally start in general is a recipe for disaster. Northshire should be on the chopping block, but if there isn't a good turn 2 follow up, they're manageable at least.
Fundamentally the priest class is broken: it's a steaming pile of trash with a handful of plainly OP cards/combos like Northshire and Divine Spirit/Inner Fire thrown in to make it somehow fair. It's a terrible way to balance the game because all the crappy cards sit around collecting dust while the OP cards that get printed every now and then to make the class viable accumulate in wild and ruin the experience for players there.
Instead of buffing and then nerfing Extra Arms they should've taken a hard look at the priest basic and classic sets.
As others have pointed out, it's probably the unfortunate victim of the round of nerfs that was already planned to take down dr. boom, Conjurer's and Pocket Galaxy. While aggro priest was clearly very powerful thanks to extra arms, I very much doubt that deck, as opposed to the OP card in it, was the reason for the nerf.
While it feels bad that priest got nuked when it's finally relevant again, I would prefer it if Priest became viable on the back of solid but fair cards. EA was a bit too strong, changing it to 3->2 mana or 2->3 mana for a total of 5 mana for 4/4 stats would've been more fair than just throwing the card in the gutter like this.
I got a pack two days ago despite the stream being mostly muted. Pretty sure I got packs while muted during season 1 as well.
Not unless you change Amet's wording from "Whenever you play a minion.." to "After you play a minion....". "Whenever"-triggers always happen before the thing that triggered them resolves.
As for changing the interaction, I think Amet & cancer priest are strong enough without additional help.
If the argument is that you want to cut all the cheap spells for utility minions so that Summoner always hits high-cost spells and you still have game against aggro, I'd get rid of Scalebane and Primordial drake in favour of more cheap stuff like Amalgam and Twilight guardian, maybe an MCT. Once you have 5+ mana you have big spells and big spell minions to cast, you don't really want to be mucking about with dragons.
The awkward thing about big druid spells + dragons is that most of the worthwhile stuff is 6+ mana, making it really awkward to efficiently spend your mana on later turns.
I'm a bit at a loss what the dragons are even doing in this deck: if the goal is to shore up the early game with EG Blackwing Technician & Twilight guardian, why is every last dragon a 1-of? Wouldn't you want to hit at least those cards consistently every match?
On an even more base level the dragons confuse me because one of the main reasons to go for dragon synergies is so you can cut spells in favour of minions that kinda behave like spells (CF dragon conjurer mage with Book of Specters early in the RoS meta. King Phaoris wants you to have a mitt full of spells, so why not just play the spells?
Even if that's all true that still doesn't change that "just stop letting it bother you" is the least productive response to valid criticism ever. If it's something stupid and annoying that could easily be fixed, why shouldn't you let that bother you? Why shouldn't you voice your annoyance about it?
Problems that aren't voiced aren't heard and tend not to be resolved.
I too am neurotic like that. I would be overjoyed if blizzard eliminated 5 gold increments from the game because they don't do anything other than trigger people with OCD. It wouldn't even affect the balance of arena or w/e because you can get the same statistical spread of results with 10 gold increments instead of 5.
I have bought arena tickets for no other purpose than to get rid of that 5 gold, I'm not even kidding. Conversely it's one of the reasons I stopped playing arena, as that is the primary cause of appendix gold to begin with.
^ Most people will only look at the OP before replying, so no. Adding a clarification to it would probably put an end to most of these "b-but preventing card draw" drive-by non-responses.
I think I prefer cards where shuffling cards into the enemy deck is actually a benefit on its own rather than a straight up anti-reno design. Think of Beneath the Grounds or The Darkness, or for that matter warrior bombs.
Now granted, neither of those two cards are particularly good, but the concept in itself is decent: compare to Fal'dorei Strider, which is basically Beneath the Grounds on a 4/4 body.
I'd much rather have a playable card that happens to be super spicy against Reno decks than one that is basically useless except for hosing reno. For example you could have an overstatted minion (2 mana 3/3, say) that shuffles 3 1/1 hunters into the opponent's deck that get played when drawn, comparable to the 'hunted' cycle from MtG's Ravnica set.
Quick question: I vaguely recall back in the Un'goro days having heard/read that discover also gives you higher odds at finding cards from the newest set. EG Primordial Glyph had a heightened chance of giving Meteor or a second glyph, Stonehill Defender had increased odds of spawning more stonehill defenders and Sunkeeper Tarims, etc.
Did the last expansion bonus also get removed in this latest patch? Is it still there? Have I been imagining it all along? I couldn't find any documentation on this, but like I said, I could have sworn I heard about this being in the game at the time.
I'm really annoyed that they had to fundamentally alter how discover works just to correct for the ridiculous amount of overstatted OP minions warrior keeps getting. This should have been addressed by taking a wrecking ball to the warrior pool of discoverable minions rather than taking a dump on discover itself. Omega Devastator and Eternium Rover should have been nerfed directly, Tomb Warden and Armegadillo shouldn't be mechs, etc.
I also really really dislike the fact that blizzard doesn't give a big public announcement about rule changes the same way they do for individual card nerfs: these changes affect the game more substantively and unlike a card change, you can't tell it has occurred by looking at the card. You won't know things are different until it happens to you in a game, which tends to be an awful experience. Just announce the flipping rules changes blizzard, c'mon.
If the idea is to blow the opponent up with 2 pyroblasts to the face, wouldn't you rather run a bunch of freezes and Ice block? A lot of the defensive/utility minions here just seem like worse options compared to the mage toolkit of control spells. And if the argument is that Dragon's Fury requires you to have expensive spells, just run different board clears and freezes: after all it doesn't matter how many stats your opponent has on board when you pyroblast them dead.
I really don't understand why these kinds of fundamental, wide-reaching changes aren't announced with the same kind of pomp and fanfare as card-specific nerfs. Arguably they're more impactful, and yet they get stealth-implemented with only a mention in the changelog, if you're lucky. It's ridiculous. I remember the last time they pulled this shit I thought the game was buggy when my opponent Cleaved a single minion on my board.
It really is a terrible gaming experience to think you know how the game works only to get clowned on by some unannounced major rules change. FFS Blizz, just flipping tell us about this stuff. We won't bite (... hard).
As for the change itself, I don't like it. If this was done to put warrior in its place then it's a post-hoc attempt to fix something that should obviously have been caught during playtesting (or even just during design because it's incredibly obvious): Giving Warrior a million overstatted minions with upsides and making them all mechs was never going to end well. Instead of bending the rules to make it work, they should have un-meched a couple of these dudes and maybe hit omega devastator and eternium rover with the nerfstick. Instead, now the discover mechanic itself and all of the other classes have to suffer for the sins of Dr. Boom. Exasperating.
The secret one doesn't seem to work, and the quest one also brings up Questing Explorer (not sure if intended), but I appreciate the added functionality.
I get where you're coming from, but I think these decks are unsatisfying to play against rather than boring, because it feels like Russian Roullette more than strategy. The archetype exists and is balanced around cards that are ridiculously OP but require you to build an inconsistent highlander deck. Consequently, when you draw and play those cards and the right answers, it feels like a total high-roll, but when you brick on your draws it feels like you lost to your own deck rather than the opponent. Similarly, when playing against these decks there isn't much point to playing around certain cards, you just have to pray to RNGesus; if you win the victory is tainted by the knowledge that it's due in part to the opponent's poor draws rather than your skill.
I played a lot of Kazakus-era highlander back in the day, and even though I enjoyed the heck out of it, the design of these enabler-cards never sat right with me. I think I'd rather have a dedicated highlander format than cards in the standard pool that break all norms of acceptable power level to entice players to play it there.
Completely anecdotal, but I had a ridiculous winrate with miracle/burn shaman the other day. Kept running into highlander hunters and battlecry shamans with the odd mage or priest thrown in, and none of those decks/classes seem to be able to handle that sort of aggression very well. I assume aggro rogue would do very well against those decks as well. It certainly helped that I didn't run into a single warrior.
The one card that I'd like to have in classic above all others is Dirty Rat. The main reason is that the card provides a possible answer to a ton of decks that can kill you from hand and that otherwise cannot be touched with evergreen cards. Instead of having to print a bunch of new counters every year(which they all keep giving to Warlock for some unfathomable reason: Demonic Project, Gnomeferatu, etc.) they could add Dirty Rat to classic, similar to how Mind Control Tech or Acidic Swamp Ooze are staple neutral tech cards. What's more, Dirty Rat is potentially game-winning but not at all overpowered, and effective use of the card requires skill, knowledge of the meta and a little luck.
Regarding Defile, as others have pointed out that card is waaay too strong to be made evergreen. I think we're just overdue a small AoE spell a la Demonwrath (Impferno just doesn't cut it).
Hadn't played ranked at all this month so I figured I'd get my five wins in while I still can. Ended up climbing six ranks with only one loss, and not a single Warrior to ruin my fun. Feels good man.
Fundamentally the priest class is broken: it's a steaming pile of trash with a handful of plainly OP cards/combos like Northshire and Divine Spirit/Inner Fire thrown in to make it somehow fair. It's a terrible way to balance the game because all the crappy cards sit around collecting dust while the OP cards that get printed every now and then to make the class viable accumulate in wild and ruin the experience for players there.
Instead of buffing and then nerfing Extra Arms they should've taken a hard look at the priest basic and classic sets.
As others have pointed out, it's probably the unfortunate victim of the round of nerfs that was already planned to take down dr. boom, Conjurer's and Pocket Galaxy. While aggro priest was clearly very powerful thanks to extra arms, I very much doubt that deck, as opposed to the OP card in it, was the reason for the nerf.
While it feels bad that priest got nuked when it's finally relevant again, I would prefer it if Priest became viable on the back of solid but fair cards. EA was a bit too strong, changing it to 3->2 mana or 2->3 mana for a total of 5 mana for 4/4 stats would've been more fair than just throwing the card in the gutter like this.
I genuinely thought this was a joke thread at first. What the heck