Revealing cards should start the moment the expansion releases. That's how it should work instead of all the theorycrafting and blahblah before it's even released. Gives lots more fun and we would see more variation in decks cause people have to make decks themselves and not everyone playing the same deck from the start. But hey...that's my ow opinion :)
There are pros and cons. I wasn't super engaged with the card reveals back in 2014, so I accidentally went into GvG like that, and it was indeed great. But even if everyone liked that approach (which they don't), a large part of HS's revenue comes from pre-orders so they are never going to hide everything until release.
They really went all in on Chef Scabbs, and I'm so glad they did. If they're going to give us 4 versions of the same character, they might as well make at least one of them a silly gimmick.
For burst and Shadowstep implications, I'm not sure it makes much difference if it is full stealth or only for 1 turn.
Meanwhile most decks in Wild will win long before permanent stealth becomes a real problem (especially as you have to jump through SI:7 hoops before you can set it up), or otherwise have the AoE to avoid stealth being a problem at all. There's a reason Akama Prime rarely achieves anything.
So I'm not seeing a reason for the card to be 'corrected' at the moment. If it was a normal card instead of a token that takes quite a lot of work to obtain, then sure, but as it stands it is no more ridiculous than what the meta already contains.
By the way, Battleground Battlemaster is a much more perplexing card to me. If one class giving stealth to anything is spooky, then any class giving any 2+ minions windfury - with a collectible card no less - is downright terrifying. That card looks much more likely to get changed than the Noggen-Fog to me.
Just quickly pointing out that Noggen-Fog Generator gives a minion full stealth, not just for 1 turn, making it the only option in the game to give any minion quasi-permanent stealth since Master of Disguise got nerfed.
Most of the time that isn't super important, and it almost certainly won't ever be meta-relevant, but it does open a lot of doors for meme rogue players. Basically any card with a useful 'end of turn' effect, or one that triggers whenever X happens, would love permanent stealth. Shadowjeweler Hanar is an obvious choice to annoy the hell out of your opponents in Standard, while Wild has everything from Sonya Shadowdancer and Spirit of the Shark up to Troggzor the Earthinator and Mayor Noggenfogger* himself.
* You might need a bit of luck to actually hit him though :P
Deckbuilding is limited a bit by needing a bunch of SI:7 cards to reach Spymaster Scabbs and guarantee a Noggen-Fog Generator, but they at least provide a functional starting point for the deck, so that's OK.
That's all I had to say really. It got my creative juices flowing, so maybe it'll do the same for someone else too.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but in Standard I think the odds of a given board are 20%, due to there being 5 sets in Standard with 5 boards associated with them (I think the 4 Classic boards were removed from Standard in April). I wouldn't bother trying to rig it personally.
Honestly, this sounds like a nice quality of life feature that is in practice too minor to have to work out a way to implement it. It is a dead feature for all but 1 week in the expansion cycle (maybe 2 weeks if you consider the mini-set significant enough), and as you acknowledge there are external solutions to the problem during that week.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it would be ideal if it existed, but it's hyperbolic to say they are "sabotaging" their game by leaving it out.
Building decks without cards isn't just for 1 week before expansion release, you know. Sometimes, i really want that feature at middle of an expansion to make some meme or fun decks with cards that i don't want to craft as soon as the thought of the deck came to save that in the game to find out I open those cards from packs or not but it is not really an ideal way to do that with out-game source like a deck-tracker or a website like this.
I honestly wish that system were in the game.
Why not just make an incomplete deck and indicate which cards are missing in the deck name? You won't be able to play it but you can still store it in the collection manager.
You need to be missing a really large fraction of the deck for this to not be a viable option, which is rarely true in the middle of an expansion cycle.
Honestly, this sounds like a nice quality of life feature that is in practice too minor to have to work out a way to implement it. It is a dead feature for all but 1 week in the expansion cycle (maybe 2 weeks if you consider the mini-set significant enough), and as you acknowledge there are external solutions to the problem during that week.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it would be ideal if it existed, but it's hyperbolic to say they are "sabotaging" their game by leaving it out.
I doubt it. It's notable that the classes that didn't get a profession weapon are also ones that often rely on the ability to attack with their hero.
Similarly, the classes that didn't get mounts are generally the ones that don't tend to buff minions. Heck, I don't think mage has ever had a minion buff, and I'd be surprised if that changed just for the sake of a minor set mechanic.
This wording is weird it should be Start of the game effect
Start of game effects happen after the mulligan, so it wouldn't serve its primary function since the opponent would know you're a rogue from the start.
It actually looks slow enough to be a respectable deck this time, so there's no shame in it :)
What I want to know is, what on Azeroth happened to Rokara to make her join the Bloodsail Buccaneers? That's a serious change of philosophy from her Frostwolf background and the horde honour Bru'kan taught her.
Edit: I have read the flavour text, and it sounds like the Horde mercenaries won the ship in a competition, and Rokara is just playing out the fantasy of being pirate captain. I can't blame her.
I wonder if he counts as a SI7 card. Given that hes based on Trias, he should.
Lady Prestor and Wrathion don't count as dragons, so I very much doubt an SI:7 agent disguised as a cheesemonger would. They all probably should count as their respective (pseudo-)tribes, but sadly that's not the HS design philosophy.
What qualifies as an SI:7 card though? Is it really just in the card name, because if so that's a really forced gimmick (and if it isn't, then that's just confusing)
It functions the same as poisons in that regard, so it's perfectly consistent with rogue card wording this year. Honestly I like that approach for things that aren't really tribes/spell schools, so long as there aren't any awkward cases. Now I think about it, Mathias Shaw would be such an awkward case if they actually printed him. They'd have to call him SI:7 Master Shaw, or something similar.
Anyway, yes, the quest looks a lot of fun, and is certainly making a completely unique archetype. We have to keep in mind Shadowstep and other bounce/copy effects exist, so the number of gizmos we can get its bonkers.
To me, this is one of the most surprising things this entire set because paladin NEVER gets damage dealing spells. Unless I have missed something, this is their first one since the Classic set. It's weird that they add this just after replacing Classic with Core to (largely) sort out that quirk of class design.
Anyway, weirdness aside, it's clearly a good card, even before accounting for tradeable.
Odd that they went back to getting cards from your opponent's class with the Undercover Mole gizmo, rather than sticking with the 'any other class' clause they've used since Rastakhan's Rumble. I guess they decided it was more flavourful this way, especially as it's just a token and not going to be central to anyone's game plan... That or they just couldn't be bothered to change Shaku, the Collector's card text.
Yeah, I bet there were a few people reluctant to put that monstrosity back into Standard. Hopefully it's a bit tougher to set up this time and it won't plague the meta, because as much as some people like playing machine gun priest, nobody likes playing against it.
I guess it's entire purpose is to mess with your opponent's mulligan choices?
I suppose it has some (brief) synergy with burgle cards in wild too, when they need you to hold cards from another class to activate them. That's not nothing if Underbelly Fence's battlecry goes off before you turn back into a rogue.
I'm completely with you. I have 7x as many wins with rogue as any other class, so It's really painful to constantly see the portraits go to every class other than the one I'm biased towards.
Yeah, I had been considering it before, but it now looks super likely that the mini-set will be centred around exposing Onyxia, with SI:7 giving everyone (the alliance mercenaries?) the tip off.
No no, it makes perfect sense. After all, what sounds more appropriate to Stormwind: an organisation of spies; a gang of thugs and bandits slighted by nobles; or a draenai from an alternate version of a completely different planet. Oh wait....
The fact Mathias Shaw isn't even a card must mean he's appearing later in the expansion cycle though. Right?
There are pros and cons. I wasn't super engaged with the card reveals back in 2014, so I accidentally went into GvG like that, and it was indeed great. But even if everyone liked that approach (which they don't), a large part of HS's revenue comes from pre-orders so they are never going to hide everything until release.
They really went all in on Chef Scabbs, and I'm so glad they did. If they're going to give us 4 versions of the same character, they might as well make at least one of them a silly gimmick.
@dapperdog
For burst and Shadowstep implications, I'm not sure it makes much difference if it is full stealth or only for 1 turn.
Meanwhile most decks in Wild will win long before permanent stealth becomes a real problem (especially as you have to jump through SI:7 hoops before you can set it up), or otherwise have the AoE to avoid stealth being a problem at all. There's a reason Akama Prime rarely achieves anything.
So I'm not seeing a reason for the card to be 'corrected' at the moment. If it was a normal card instead of a token that takes quite a lot of work to obtain, then sure, but as it stands it is no more ridiculous than what the meta already contains.
By the way, Battleground Battlemaster is a much more perplexing card to me. If one class giving stealth to anything is spooky, then any class giving any 2+ minions windfury - with a collectible card no less - is downright terrifying. That card looks much more likely to get changed than the Noggen-Fog to me.
Do you have an article detailing this? I only remember Samuro and Mankrik offering a full dust refund.
Just quickly pointing out that Noggen-Fog Generator gives a minion full stealth, not just for 1 turn, making it the only option in the game to give any minion quasi-permanent stealth since Master of Disguise got nerfed.
Most of the time that isn't super important, and it almost certainly won't ever be meta-relevant, but it does open a lot of doors for meme rogue players. Basically any card with a useful 'end of turn' effect, or one that triggers whenever X happens, would love permanent stealth. Shadowjeweler Hanar is an obvious choice to annoy the hell out of your opponents in Standard, while Wild has everything from Sonya Shadowdancer and Spirit of the Shark up to Troggzor the Earthinator and Mayor Noggenfogger* himself.
* You might need a bit of luck to actually hit him though :P
Deckbuilding is limited a bit by needing a bunch of SI:7 cards to reach Spymaster Scabbs and guarantee a Noggen-Fog Generator, but they at least provide a functional starting point for the deck, so that's OK.
That's all I had to say really. It got my creative juices flowing, so maybe it'll do the same for someone else too.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but in Standard I think the odds of a given board are 20%, due to there being 5 sets in Standard with 5 boards associated with them (I think the 4 Classic boards were removed from Standard in April). I wouldn't bother trying to rig it personally.
Why not just make an incomplete deck and indicate which cards are missing in the deck name? You won't be able to play it but you can still store it in the collection manager.
You need to be missing a really large fraction of the deck for this to not be a viable option, which is rarely true in the middle of an expansion cycle.
Honestly, this sounds like a nice quality of life feature that is in practice too minor to have to work out a way to implement it. It is a dead feature for all but 1 week in the expansion cycle (maybe 2 weeks if you consider the mini-set significant enough), and as you acknowledge there are external solutions to the problem during that week.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it would be ideal if it existed, but it's hyperbolic to say they are "sabotaging" their game by leaving it out.
I doubt it. It's notable that the classes that didn't get a profession weapon are also ones that often rely on the ability to attack with their hero.
Similarly, the classes that didn't get mounts are generally the ones that don't tend to buff minions. Heck, I don't think mage has ever had a minion buff, and I'd be surprised if that changed just for the sake of a minor set mechanic.
Start of game effects happen after the mulligan, so it wouldn't serve its primary function since the opponent would know you're a rogue from the start.
It actually looks slow enough to be a respectable deck this time, so there's no shame in it :)
What I want to know is, what on Azeroth happened to Rokara to make her join the Bloodsail Buccaneers? That's a serious change of philosophy from her Frostwolf background and the horde honour Bru'kan taught her.
Edit: I have read the flavour text, and it sounds like the Horde mercenaries won the ship in a competition, and Rokara is just playing out the fantasy of being pirate captain. I can't blame her.
Lady Prestor and Wrathion don't count as dragons, so I very much doubt an SI:7 agent disguised as a cheesemonger would. They all probably should count as their respective (pseudo-)tribes, but sadly that's not the HS design philosophy.
It functions the same as poisons in that regard, so it's perfectly consistent with rogue card wording this year. Honestly I like that approach for things that aren't really tribes/spell schools, so long as there aren't any awkward cases. Now I think about it, Mathias Shaw would be such an awkward case if they actually printed him. They'd have to call him SI:7 Master Shaw, or something similar.
Anyway, yes, the quest looks a lot of fun, and is certainly making a completely unique archetype. We have to keep in mind Shadowstep and other bounce/copy effects exist, so the number of gizmos we can get its bonkers.
To me, this is one of the most surprising things this entire set because paladin NEVER gets damage dealing spells. Unless I have missed something, this is their first one since the Classic set. It's weird that they add this just after replacing Classic with Core to (largely) sort out that quirk of class design.
Anyway, weirdness aside, it's clearly a good card, even before accounting for tradeable.
Odd that they went back to getting cards from your opponent's class with the Undercover Mole gizmo, rather than sticking with the 'any other class' clause they've used since Rastakhan's Rumble. I guess they decided it was more flavourful this way, especially as it's just a token and not going to be central to anyone's game plan... That or they just couldn't be bothered to change Shaku, the Collector's card text.
Yeah, I bet there were a few people reluctant to put that monstrosity back into Standard. Hopefully it's a bit tougher to set up this time and it won't plague the meta, because as much as some people like playing machine gun priest, nobody likes playing against it.
I guess it's entire purpose is to mess with your opponent's mulligan choices?
I suppose it has some (brief) synergy with burgle cards in wild too, when they need you to hold cards from another class to activate them. That's not nothing if Underbelly Fence's battlecry goes off before you turn back into a rogue.
I'm completely with you. I have 7x as many wins with rogue as any other class, so It's really painful to constantly see the portraits go to every class other than the one I'm biased towards.
I mean, why did Paladin even need another one?
Yeah, I had been considering it before, but it now looks super likely that the mini-set will be centred around exposing Onyxia, with SI:7 giving everyone (the alliance mercenaries?) the tip off.
No no, it makes perfect sense. After all, what sounds more appropriate to Stormwind: an organisation of spies; a gang of thugs and bandits slighted by nobles; or a draenai from an alternate version of a completely different planet. Oh wait....
The fact Mathias Shaw isn't even a card must mean he's appearing later in the expansion cycle though. Right?