Pretty much since its nerf. It is actually better in this deck since I don't have anything to give Illidan attack other than the hero power, and the Squire gains its attack without Illidan needing to attack himself, which has uses if there's a taunt you don't want to punch with your face.
I put this deck together before Battlefiend got nerfed, but it should definitely be swapped for the Squire. Alternatively you could use both, which is probably right to do.
I hope you enjoy it. If you have 2 Garrison Commanders I would recommend swapping something out for the second. The only reason I have only 1 copy in there is because I only own 1 copy.
Despite the usual comments that TGT was one of the worst expansions, I think the appearance of Demon Hunter, Genn and Baku, and hero cards have made the set age really well. TGT might not be powerful enough to make a big splash in Wild, but it has a lot more to offer than people remember.
You know i'm still hoping someday there will be windfury shaman or something. We have Windfury on the basic set after all. But idk, maybe the mechanic can't be viable without being too oppressive. Or maybe i'm just eager to put my Whirlwind Tempest to good use.
Rogue had been in a similar position with stealth, and while 2 stealth synergy cards (and a whopping 3 in wild) isn't exactly enough to support an entire archetype it is a good sign that under-supported keywords can hope for something eventually.
I guess you could argue both windfury and stealth have strong synergy with stat buffs, and divine shields actually. The trouble is while shaman and rogue have some buffs they are not central to their class identities so they don't generally receive anything very strong in this regard to incentivise splashing some windfury/stealth minions into other decks. Playing as Finley (mixed paladin & shaman) in the Tombs of Terror at least gives you the opportunity to see what windfury could really do when strong buffs are around. The Power Up! hero power really lets you test it out.
Yup. Just won me a game in a secret gala mirror. Opponent played tog's treasure that summoned 2 x legendary minions, to summon 2 x Colossus of the Moon. I played a secret and 2 x Blackjack Stunner to send them back to his hand and make them unplayable. Basically worked as a 4 mana plague of death that left me with 2 1:2 minons and a secret. Totally OP
There is little doubt the card is very strong, but your comparison to Plague of Death is misleading. You used each as single target removal not AoE, and rogue has the best single target removal in the game already. That part is crucial: there is a bigger design point at play here with every class getting cards that seem OP compared to what other classes get. Sometimes they actually are OP and need nerfing, but often they are just representations of a class' strengths.
This effect is doubled when there is a condition you have to meet as well, e.g. having a secret in play (especially in a class with very few secrets to choose from), which always entails a more powerful effect. So when you have a conditional battlecry that is also something the class is inherently the best at, it is always going to look crazy strong, but perhaps not actually over powered when everything is taken into consideration.
We'll find out for sure in a few days, but I believe the rank sets a minimum star multiplier, and it uses your MMR if that would give a higher multiplier. So missing a month should still give you a decent multiplier, though I don't know that your MMR doesn't change if you are away for an extended period.
What's wrong with Genn Greymane just not doing anything in demon hunter? It's not even close to the first time that a neutral card is essentially useless in a specific class (e.g. all secret synergy cards are only useful in 4 classes), and even main set mechanics have been notably weaker in some classes (it is no coincidence that rogue, whose hero power lasts (at least) 2 turns and doesn't stack, had no inspire card in TGT).
As I see it the whole point of Genn was to promote deck building utilising a 1 mana hero power, not having an especially powerful effect (that was Baku's purpose). So DH getting that for free doesn't motivate turning Genn into a Baku effect.
That's the whole point, it doesn't do anything for the class. Every other class can benefit in one way or another from either Baku or Genn in their decks, some more than others.
As for Rogue not having any Inspire cards, Paladin and Rogue didn't get anything from Witchwood for Odd or Even support. Yet Odd Paladin and Odd Rogue have remained consistent through the ladders in Standard and then in Wild. Where as Priest and Druid both got Odd support cards and neither saw play.
As for bringing a powerful effect to the game, Even Shaman has been continually high on the Wild ladder.
I guess my point is that it doesn't need to do anything for the class. 4 out of 10 classes have neutral benefits for putting secrets in their deck, and 6 out of 10 could make decent use out of neutral weapon buffs, but that doesn't mean the other classes need to be able to benefit from those neutral cards just because they are available.
I fully understand where you are coming from with all of this, but it is fundamentally the same as suggesting Secretkeeper has a different effect for the secret-less classes, which is wholly unnecessary. The only difference is that Genn is a big flashy legendary, and that is not enough to justify adding some weird unique effect for demon hunter just because the class has normal Genn effect for free.
----------------------------
Rogue and paladin didn't get any class odd or even support precisely because their odd and even hero powers were expected to be good enough to make the decks by themselves. The devs made a point at the time that they provided class odd/even cards where they expected the archetype to need more support, so it is no huge surprise that with a couple of classes (druid and priest) that 1 card wasn't enough.
What's wrong with Genn Greymane just not doing anything in demon hunter? It's not even close to the first time that a neutral card is essentially useless in a specific class (e.g. all secret synergy cards are only useful in 4 classes), and even main set mechanics have been notably weaker in some classes (it is no coincidence that rogue, whose hero power lasts (at least) 2 turns and doesn't stack, had no inspire card in TGT).
As I see it the whole point of Genn was to promote deck building utilising a 1 mana hero power, not having an especially powerful effect (that was Baku's purpose). So DH getting that for free doesn't motivate turning Genn into a Baku effect.
Not true. The RNG of the spells influences games but there's plenty of scope for good deck construction. Rogue in particular has loads of synergy with it, including easy combo activation, constant stream of cards from other classes and a whole ton of minions generating minions, all giving you an advantage.
I built a deck around Spectral Cutlass and consistently beat anyone who didn't highroll Sanctuary on turn 2. I also saw a druid exploit it using the base mana cost of minions so he used Imprisoned Satyr to play a 10 drop on turn 5 then Mind Control my 7/10 Greenskin.
I instead went with Spectral Cutlass, drawn with Cavern Shinyfinder and buffed by pirates mostly. You never run out of durability so it probably ends up more efficient than the quest, plus the healing is super useful when against aggro decks.
Well you'll find quite a few of the people here happy to have left the mire of HearthPwn, and the admins are in no way tyrannical, so welcome.
I hope you have learned something from your bans however, even if they were heavy-handed. If nothing else "Nozdormu is racist against mobile players" is less helpful than "Nozdormu is unfair on mobile players" and its mere wording does provoke less measured responses. Why even open yourself up to comments about the use of 'racist' when you are posing a genuine discussion about game mechanics?
I am with you, but this is a question that has been around since the very start of HS and always ends up at the same answer: different people have different thoughts on what the Casual mode is for.
Frankly no one is wrong so you have to just live with it until a time comes when Blizz does something about it (probably removing the gold earned from every 3 wins, or the introduction of Super-Casual that does that). Note they have never shown any sign that they intend to do something about it...
@DescentOfDragonsOP: as well as what Conduit said, I would avoid using an image of Aya Blackpaw as a token called 'Gang Mate'. Flavour wise she's the boss, not just a low ranking grunt.
Thought I could do some easy wins to get up to platinum league by Doing some DH. I hadn't played it that much, but everybody's screaming about it being OP, so I bit.
I must really suck. REALLY suck, because on Europe server, there are only off meta decks where I am. Meta report on this site is...inaccurate.
Game 1: Galakrond Quest Shaman. Lost. Game 2: Galakrond Shaman. Lost. Game 3: SPELL MAGE (yeah, they haven't given up on that). Lost. Game 4: Switched to Zoolock. Won in three turns against big Druid. Game 5. Switched to Galakrond Warlock. Won against Resurrect Priest (even when he Albatrossed me for a while).
How is DH OP in Europe? Is it?
Well firstly DH has just been nerfed again so no one knows quite how strong it is.
Secondly that's only 5 games and not enough to draw significant conclusions from either for win rate or meta populations.
Thirdly, I would never complain about encountering off-meta decks. To me that's like finding the Holy Grail and complaining because you were looking for a normal cup.
I suspect it is because this plan exists for every class: stay alive, play Reno Jackson. Thanks to that even my 35 legendary rogue deck, which has no business beating anything aggressive, can win.
I would still absolutely support a secret mage nerf, though most of all I want an arena-like frequently rotating Wild format. Even dominant decks are bearable when they only last 2 months.
The A.I. has been known to bm from time to time, so maybe you can coax Zephrys into a suicide. Leaving yourself with 0 mana and being dead on the board seems the most likely avenue.
I don't think Zephrys understands the art of the suicide and he's only going to offer you cards that appear to deny the enemy's lethal. In fairness, unless you have to remove both a weapon and minions, it always at least delays lethal so far as the board state is concerned.
So, have anyone figured out a use for this card? I opened her on launch and have no idea if there's any way at all I can play her. That 3 health is an insult for such a cool concept. Compared to Waxadred it's worse in every single way.
From my experience Al'ar is best when you are ahead, or at least when your opponent doesn't have any minions, so they cannot just use a minion to kill off the ashes for free. It then serves the role of something threatening but also annoying to get rid of, which can be useful. Now I'm not saying it is a great card in most games even if you have a deck that suits the card, but equally don't underestimate how useful it is to use up 2x 3 damage removal.
As for the comparison to Waxadred, keep in mind there's tools for 9 other classes to use so being worse in rogue doesn't rule out uses elsewhere. The other deathrattle classes (hunter and priest) in particular can have some fun mutliplying Al'ar or the ashes.
You can also consider using both Waxadred and Al'ar in the same deck, which will at least give you a feel for when Al'ar is actually stronger than the dragon. Even just on paper 2x3 > 5, so she can be tougher to remove in the first place, and she comes back quicker so there will be a few times when she's better.
While the appearance of DH is undoubtedly the reason why Sac Pact is being played and got targeted, the Jaraxxus point only really became a thing 8 months (not 6 years) ago when Zephrys turned up and is absolutely relevant here: it is not just warlocks suppressing use of Lord J., it is the large number of singleton decks too. I could honestly see them making a change to not target Lord J. around now even if DH hadn't been introduced.
Ultimately any change that makes the players happy is justified, and in this case the Jaraxxus aspect is a legitimate part of why people would be happy about it (especially as he's a fan favourite card).
Pretty much since its nerf. It is actually better in this deck since I don't have anything to give Illidan attack other than the hero power, and the Squire gains its attack without Illidan needing to attack himself, which has uses if there's a taunt you don't want to punch with your face.
I put this deck together before Battlefiend got nerfed, but it should definitely be swapped for the Squire. Alternatively you could use both, which is probably right to do.
I hope you enjoy it. If you have 2 Garrison Commanders I would recommend swapping something out for the second. The only reason I have only 1 copy in there is because I only own 1 copy.
Despite the usual comments that TGT was one of the worst expansions, I think the appearance of Demon Hunter, Genn and Baku, and hero cards have made the set age really well. TGT might not be powerful enough to make a big splash in Wild, but it has a lot more to offer than people remember.
Rogue had been in a similar position with stealth, and while 2 stealth synergy cards (and a whopping 3 in wild) isn't exactly enough to support an entire archetype it is a good sign that under-supported keywords can hope for something eventually.
I guess you could argue both windfury and stealth have strong synergy with stat buffs, and divine shields actually. The trouble is while shaman and rogue have some buffs they are not central to their class identities so they don't generally receive anything very strong in this regard to incentivise splashing some windfury/stealth minions into other decks. Playing as Finley (mixed paladin & shaman) in the Tombs of Terror at least gives you the opportunity to see what windfury could really do when strong buffs are around. The Power Up! hero power really lets you test it out.
There is little doubt the card is very strong, but your comparison to Plague of Death is misleading. You used each as single target removal not AoE, and rogue has the best single target removal in the game already. That part is crucial: there is a bigger design point at play here with every class getting cards that seem OP compared to what other classes get. Sometimes they actually are OP and need nerfing, but often they are just representations of a class' strengths.
This effect is doubled when there is a condition you have to meet as well, e.g. having a secret in play (especially in a class with very few secrets to choose from), which always entails a more powerful effect. So when you have a conditional battlecry that is also something the class is inherently the best at, it is always going to look crazy strong, but perhaps not actually over powered when everything is taken into consideration.
We'll find out for sure in a few days, but I believe the rank sets a minimum star multiplier, and it uses your MMR if that would give a higher multiplier. So missing a month should still give you a decent multiplier, though I don't know that your MMR doesn't change if you are away for an extended period.
I guess my point is that it doesn't need to do anything for the class. 4 out of 10 classes have neutral benefits for putting secrets in their deck, and 6 out of 10 could make decent use out of neutral weapon buffs, but that doesn't mean the other classes need to be able to benefit from those neutral cards just because they are available.
I fully understand where you are coming from with all of this, but it is fundamentally the same as suggesting Secretkeeper has a different effect for the secret-less classes, which is wholly unnecessary. The only difference is that Genn is a big flashy legendary, and that is not enough to justify adding some weird unique effect for demon hunter just because the class has normal Genn effect for free.
----------------------------
Rogue and paladin didn't get any class odd or even support precisely because their odd and even hero powers were expected to be good enough to make the decks by themselves. The devs made a point at the time that they provided class odd/even cards where they expected the archetype to need more support, so it is no huge surprise that with a couple of classes (druid and priest) that 1 card wasn't enough.
What's wrong with Genn Greymane just not doing anything in demon hunter? It's not even close to the first time that a neutral card is essentially useless in a specific class (e.g. all secret synergy cards are only useful in 4 classes), and even main set mechanics have been notably weaker in some classes (it is no coincidence that rogue, whose hero power lasts (at least) 2 turns and doesn't stack, had no inspire card in TGT).
As I see it the whole point of Genn was to promote deck building utilising a 1 mana hero power, not having an especially powerful effect (that was Baku's purpose). So DH getting that for free doesn't motivate turning Genn into a Baku effect.
Not true. The RNG of the spells influences games but there's plenty of scope for good deck construction. Rogue in particular has loads of synergy with it, including easy combo activation, constant stream of cards from other classes and a whole ton of minions generating minions, all giving you an advantage.
I built a deck around Spectral Cutlass and consistently beat anyone who didn't highroll Sanctuary on turn 2. I also saw a druid exploit it using the base mana cost of minions so he used Imprisoned Satyr to play a 10 drop on turn 5 then Mind Control my 7/10 Greenskin.
I instead went with Spectral Cutlass, drawn with Cavern Shinyfinder and buffed by pirates mostly. You never run out of durability so it probably ends up more efficient than the quest, plus the healing is super useful when against aggro decks.
Well you'll find quite a few of the people here happy to have left the mire of HearthPwn, and the admins are in no way tyrannical, so welcome.
I hope you have learned something from your bans however, even if they were heavy-handed. If nothing else "Nozdormu is racist against mobile players" is less helpful than "Nozdormu is unfair on mobile players" and its mere wording does provoke less measured responses. Why even open yourself up to comments about the use of 'racist' when you are posing a genuine discussion about game mechanics?
I am with you, but this is a question that has been around since the very start of HS and always ends up at the same answer: different people have different thoughts on what the Casual mode is for.
Frankly no one is wrong so you have to just live with it until a time comes when Blizz does something about it (probably removing the gold earned from every 3 wins, or the introduction of Super-Casual that does that). Note they have never shown any sign that they intend to do something about it...
@DescentOfDragonsOP: as well as what Conduit said, I would avoid using an image of Aya Blackpaw as a token called 'Gang Mate'. Flavour wise she's the boss, not just a low ranking grunt.
Well firstly DH has just been nerfed again so no one knows quite how strong it is.
Secondly that's only 5 games and not enough to draw significant conclusions from either for win rate or meta populations.
Thirdly, I would never complain about encountering off-meta decks. To me that's like finding the Holy Grail and complaining because you were looking for a normal cup.
I suspect it is because this plan exists for every class: stay alive, play Reno Jackson. Thanks to that even my 35 legendary rogue deck, which has no business beating anything aggressive, can win.
I would still absolutely support a secret mage nerf, though most of all I want an arena-like frequently rotating Wild format. Even dominant decks are bearable when they only last 2 months.
The A.I. has been known to bm from time to time, so maybe you can coax Zephrys into a suicide. Leaving yourself with 0 mana and being dead on the board seems the most likely avenue.
I don't think Zephrys understands the art of the suicide and he's only going to offer you cards that appear to deny the enemy's lethal. In fairness, unless you have to remove both a weapon and minions, it always at least delays lethal so far as the board state is concerned.
From my experience Al'ar is best when you are ahead, or at least when your opponent doesn't have any minions, so they cannot just use a minion to kill off the ashes for free. It then serves the role of something threatening but also annoying to get rid of, which can be useful. Now I'm not saying it is a great card in most games even if you have a deck that suits the card, but equally don't underestimate how useful it is to use up 2x 3 damage removal.
As for the comparison to Waxadred, keep in mind there's tools for 9 other classes to use so being worse in rogue doesn't rule out uses elsewhere. The other deathrattle classes (hunter and priest) in particular can have some fun mutliplying Al'ar or the ashes.
You can also consider using both Waxadred and Al'ar in the same deck, which will at least give you a feel for when Al'ar is actually stronger than the dragon. Even just on paper 2x3 > 5, so she can be tougher to remove in the first place, and she comes back quicker so there will be a few times when she's better.
While the appearance of DH is undoubtedly the reason why Sac Pact is being played and got targeted, the Jaraxxus point only really became a thing 8 months (not 6 years) ago when Zephrys turned up and is absolutely relevant here: it is not just warlocks suppressing use of Lord J., it is the large number of singleton decks too. I could honestly see them making a change to not target Lord J. around now even if DH hadn't been introduced.
Ultimately any change that makes the players happy is justified, and in this case the Jaraxxus aspect is a legitimate part of why people would be happy about it (especially as he's a fan favourite card).
Only from warlock's perspective. As far as the other 8 classes are concerned DH absolutely does get weaker.
Honestly they could have openly called it DH beta and people would be quite happy with that.