So normally I just use Fake GPS to 'attend' a fireside to open my packs early (for the same problem that would happen in the title. However, for some reason selecting a public Fireside event seems to be disabled on the website so I had to try to create my own unlisted event again, which to no surprise still results in the 404 error from previous years.
Personally I don't like how these cards were mostly pigeonholed into only weapon support cards. Was that the only direction to take these class cards? Another reason I'm glad I play wild, I don't have to only play one archtype when a new expansion comes out.
Walk the Plank is conditional removal that can't remove a damaged minion and is played in no competitive decks.
Backstab is great removal for the early game, but it can't answer average or large threats without an additional commitment of resources or trades.
Seal Fate is like a mix of the above 2. The reason it sees the kind of play it does is due to the invoke Gala synergy, not so much the 3 damage on a non-damaged target.
Vendetta Completely dependent on playing a specific rogue archtype and is played nowhere else. This card really isn't comparable.
Sabotage Basically a 5 mana (or more) conditional removal that is totally random. Need I say more?
Assassinate 5 mana to destroy 1 minion without being able to develop the board. No
Flik Skyshiv Again another good card. It is expensive though (6 mana), is limited to 1 due to legendary tag (which means getting it as an answer is inconsistent), and can backfire during mirrors. Still good though.
Coerce is much better than pretty much all except maybe the last 2 cards because it synergies perfectly with 1 mana lackeys and aside from the combo requirement is otherwise unconditional removal for a minion at just 3 additional mana (no undamaged requirement, no rng targetting, no spending most or all of your turn removing 1 minion).
"Cards are bad because if you played them without synergy they would be bad"
Welcome to card games.
Also you ignoring the fact that cards like Vendetta, Backstab, and Seal Fate easily remove early threats to help you stay on the board for cards like Assassinateor Walk the Plank to help you keep advantage without losing because of a slow turn because the opponent played Tirion Fordring and you discovered one of them off a witchy lackey just for this occasion so you wouldn't have to trade off your entire board. Imagine thinking a rogue would have no board presence lmao, what year is it. Rogue isn't a mage or a warrior with big board clears, to get rid of boards, they have cards that enable their minions to do it.
The point is Coerce DOESN"T need special synergies to be good. Why restrict yourself to only playing Theif Rogue for a 4 damage removal when you can play pretty much any rogue deck with cheap cards, like lackeys, for a removal that can destroy any one threat you want? Same goes for slow clunky 5 mana removals, or those that restrict you to only being able to remove an undamaged minion.
Coerce allows you to destroy any minion for 3 mana so I fail to see any comparable argument that states that most of the above removals you mentioned are close to being as flexible as this new removal for rogue. Flexible class staple > restricted use synergistic only removal.
Walk the Plank is conditional removal that can't remove a damaged minion and is played in no competitive decks.
Backstab is great removal for the early game, but it can't answer average or large threats without an additional commitment of resources or trades.
Seal Fate is like a mix of the above 2. The reason it sees the kind of play it does is due to the invoke Gala synergy, not so much the 3 damage on a non-damaged target.
Vendetta Completely dependent on playing a specific rogue archtype and is played nowhere else. This card really isn't comparable.
Sabotage Basically a 5 mana (or more) conditional removal that is totally random. Need I say more?
Assassinate 5 mana to destroy 1 minion without being able to develop the board. No
Flik Skyshiv Again another good card. It is expensive though (6 mana), is limited to 1 due to legendary tag (which means getting it as an answer is inconsistent), and can backfire during mirrors. Still good though.
Coerce is much better than pretty much all except maybe the last 2 cards because it synergies perfectly with 1 mana lackeys and aside from the combo requirement is otherwise unconditional removal for a minion at just 3 additional mana (no undamaged requirement, no rng targetting, no spending most or all of your turn removing 1 minion).
Omg just realized this finally gives a win condition against wild quest mage for a non-aggro deck. If you get lucky and pull this just take their spell and enjoy your free extra turn.
Might be better to leave this question until we actually see all the cards. Team5 usually leave the best for the final reveal.
Fair point. I will admit that after making this thread and later seeing Forest Warden Omu revealed I am 1000% positive the card will get nerfed in the future, both because of it's impact in standard and wild. There is absolutely no way you can have a recurring Kun effect and not have it break the game. If that card were in Yu-Gi-Oh it would get slapped with a hard once per turn clause.
I do agree with everyone here about the flavor of the expansion, but the question that always stands to be answered is so far what is revelaed that is stronger than this meta's meta decks? Ultimately that is what will determine the degree of change in the meta (barring unforeseen nerfs to older cards of course).
Instant "No duh" candidate for being nerfed for shenanigans in both standard and wild. There is absolutely no way that isn't going to develop a fast cycling, multi-card spam, combo with this card.
If you dust this card before it does get it's inevitable future nerf you're a fool. I'm that confident in the promise of this card.
So far there are a lot of interesting mechanics, but I can't but feel that I'm so far only really excited about the new DH cards (because it pulls the class away from just hyper aggression) and the various deck manipulation neutral legendaries. Maybe standard players are more excited about this expansion, but so many of the dual class cards seem way more powered down than they could have been. I'm legit not even excited for any of the rogue legendaries, for example. None of them match even the post-nerfed rogue Galakrond (which begs the question why you'd play them over him competitively).
I just feel this expansion has a ton of neat flavor and novelty, but in more cases than not lacks the power level, which can't help me feeling like SA is a better version of TGT in modern HS.
What are your guys' impression so far? I'm also curious how any fellow wild players view the impact of this expansion. Can't help but feel most of the impactful cards will mainly be restricted to the neutral legendaries.
Really interesting mechanic. This one I actually do find pretty cool.
From a balance perspective it should be noted this fills another weaknesses the class use to have (limited healing), but I suppose they have to widen DH's class focus to something that isn't just more aggression someway.
I see people mostly looking at this card through a fast vs slow match-up. For a control mirror it really isn't a bad card. 8 mana cards are more than viable in slow games and it almost always guarantees a +1 in card advantage at the bare minimum (at least one threat you remove via rush and a removal to answer it). Of course if the opponent doesn't want to waste a removal on a 3 attack minion on their next turn then the card advantage continues to increase.
HS is a game that really has a poor 'end game' and poor pvp incentives. The end game for many competitive players is to get to legend which at best gets you a little more dust than lower ranks (via more packs & higher rarity cards to dust). This isn't WoW where you get unique transmog gear, titles, mounts, and FoS. Are we really to believe T5 is rigging games so players don't get a few extra hundred dust each month?
More importantly, the common argument of T5 allegedly rigging games to get players to buy more packs is super flawed and risky for them. For example, say T5 is rigging games for players to spend more money, this is making two major assumptions. The first assumption is that T5 would be believing most players would in fact buy a lot more packs to fill their collection. The second assumption is that players wouldn't actually be the type of players that would instead say "Screw this game! If I'm going to keep losing and not have fun then I'm just going to quit this game." An algorithm can't predict which of these two players you would be and it would seem like a financially reckless gamble to sneakily make more money this way.
A bonus hole to punch through this theory is why would T5 allegedly rig games of players who have filled the holes in their collection for the decks they care about? If you no longer have any incentive to buy more packs from a particular set of packs, until the new expansion, having your games rigged isn't going to suddenly make you want to do something (ie more pack buying) that you don't care about.
Is it because I don't have an established tavern? Still can't create events.
No idea. Can't even make my own Fireside Gathering to open my packs :(
So normally I just use Fake GPS to 'attend' a fireside to open my packs early (for the same problem that would happen in the title. However, for some reason selecting a public Fireside event seems to be disabled on the website so I had to try to create my own unlisted event again, which to no surprise still results in the 404 error from previous years.
What gives?
Personally I don't like how these cards were mostly pigeonholed into only weapon support cards. Was that the only direction to take these class cards? Another reason I'm glad I play wild, I don't have to only play one archtype when a new expansion comes out.
This clearly cost us a raid tier.
The point is Coerce DOESN"T need special synergies to be good. Why restrict yourself to only playing Theif Rogue for a 4 damage removal when you can play pretty much any rogue deck with cheap cards, like lackeys, for a removal that can destroy any one threat you want? Same goes for slow clunky 5 mana removals, or those that restrict you to only being able to remove an undamaged minion.
Coerce allows you to destroy any minion for 3 mana so I fail to see any comparable argument that states that most of the above removals you mentioned are close to being as flexible as this new removal for rogue. Flexible class staple > restricted use synergistic only removal.
Value rogue. Looks like a fun okay card
More rogue secrets (the first class that should've gotten them in HS tbh) is always welcome too
Walk the Plank is conditional removal that can't remove a damaged minion and is played in no competitive decks.
Backstab is great removal for the early game, but it can't answer average or large threats without an additional commitment of resources or trades.
Seal Fate is like a mix of the above 2. The reason it sees the kind of play it does is due to the invoke Gala synergy, not so much the 3 damage on a non-damaged target.
Vendetta Completely dependent on playing a specific rogue archtype and is played nowhere else. This card really isn't comparable.
Sabotage Basically a 5 mana (or more) conditional removal that is totally random. Need I say more?
Assassinate 5 mana to destroy 1 minion without being able to develop the board. No
Vilespine Slayer The best card here. Need more like it
Flik Skyshiv Again another good card. It is expensive though (6 mana), is limited to 1 due to legendary tag (which means getting it as an answer is inconsistent), and can backfire during mirrors. Still good though.
Coerce is much better than pretty much all except maybe the last 2 cards because it synergies perfectly with 1 mana lackeys and aside from the combo requirement is otherwise unconditional removal for a minion at just 3 additional mana (no undamaged requirement, no rng targetting, no spending most or all of your turn removing 1 minion).
Omg just realized this finally gives a win condition against wild quest mage for a non-aggro deck. If you get lucky and pull this just take their spell and enjoy your free extra turn.
Omg, Rogue, actually got a consistent removal that doesn't just return to the hand and isn't overpriced.
What black magic forkery is this?
Another 1 mana 2/2 with an upside.
You'd think the design team would learn from their mistakes but I guess they never do
Fair point. I will admit that after making this thread and later seeing Forest Warden Omu revealed I am 1000% positive the card will get nerfed in the future, both because of it's impact in standard and wild. There is absolutely no way you can have a recurring Kun effect and not have it break the game. If that card were in Yu-Gi-Oh it would get slapped with a hard once per turn clause.
I do agree with everyone here about the flavor of the expansion, but the question that always stands to be answered is so far what is revelaed that is stronger than this meta's meta decks? Ultimately that is what will determine the degree of change in the meta (barring unforeseen nerfs to older cards of course).
Instant "No duh" candidate for being nerfed for shenanigans in both standard and wild. There is absolutely no way that isn't going to develop a fast cycling, multi-card spam, combo with this card.
If you dust this card before it does get it's inevitable future nerf you're a fool. I'm that confident in the promise of this card.
Mixed? A bit let down I guess?
So far there are a lot of interesting mechanics, but I can't but feel that I'm so far only really excited about the new DH cards (because it pulls the class away from just hyper aggression) and the various deck manipulation neutral legendaries. Maybe standard players are more excited about this expansion, but so many of the dual class cards seem way more powered down than they could have been. I'm legit not even excited for any of the rogue legendaries, for example. None of them match even the post-nerfed rogue Galakrond (which begs the question why you'd play them over him competitively).
I just feel this expansion has a ton of neat flavor and novelty, but in more cases than not lacks the power level, which can't help me feeling like SA is a better version of TGT in modern HS.
What are your guys' impression so far? I'm also curious how any fellow wild players view the impact of this expansion. Can't help but feel most of the impactful cards will mainly be restricted to the neutral legendaries.
Really interesting mechanic. This one I actually do find pretty cool.
From a balance perspective it should be noted this fills another weaknesses the class use to have (limited healing), but I suppose they have to widen DH's class focus to something that isn't just more aggression someway.
Interesting mechanic but still a semi-lackluster card. I'm not super excited about any of the rogue legendaries this expansion.
Pushing aggro for paladin and rez for priest.
Everyone's favorite stale playstyles for both classes for sure.
Exciting.
I see people mostly looking at this card through a fast vs slow match-up. For a control mirror it really isn't a bad card. 8 mana cards are more than viable in slow games and it almost always guarantees a +1 in card advantage at the bare minimum (at least one threat you remove via rush and a removal to answer it). Of course if the opponent doesn't want to waste a removal on a 3 attack minion on their next turn then the card advantage continues to increase.
There's no reason for T5 to rig games.
HS is a game that really has a poor 'end game' and poor pvp incentives. The end game for many competitive players is to get to legend which at best gets you a little more dust than lower ranks (via more packs & higher rarity cards to dust). This isn't WoW where you get unique transmog gear, titles, mounts, and FoS. Are we really to believe T5 is rigging games so players don't get a few extra hundred dust each month?
More importantly, the common argument of T5 allegedly rigging games to get players to buy more packs is super flawed and risky for them. For example, say T5 is rigging games for players to spend more money, this is making two major assumptions. The first assumption is that T5 would be believing most players would in fact buy a lot more packs to fill their collection. The second assumption is that players wouldn't actually be the type of players that would instead say "Screw this game! If I'm going to keep losing and not have fun then I'm just going to quit this game." An algorithm can't predict which of these two players you would be and it would seem like a financially reckless gamble to sneakily make more money this way.
A bonus hole to punch through this theory is why would T5 allegedly rig games of players who have filled the holes in their collection for the decks they care about? If you no longer have any incentive to buy more packs from a particular set of packs, until the new expansion, having your games rigged isn't going to suddenly make you want to do something (ie more pack buying) that you don't care about.
A paladin card that isn't a forced aggro support archtype? What HS year is this?
Seems pretty good for control pally.