Is this the first Neutral Giant since that guy? That can't be right!
I remember Frost Giant. I think that came later. Clockwork Giant was put into the core set if that counts. I'm sure I must have missed something though.
The problem is wider than Kazakusan. There are several super-powered cards that entire decks are built around. The quest-lines are examples, as is Mozaki. All of those decks have wild match-up spreads.
However, I think the biggest issue is the amount of card draw, and tutored card draw. This makes decks very consistent. Ramp druid needs Capture Coldtooth Mine and Moonlit Guidance to reliably draw Kazakusan. Quest-line hunter can run many low-cost spells because it has so much card draw. This allows decks to go all in on their win condition, which leads to polarised match-ups.
You're extremely naive if you think these nerfs only help aggro decks. Given your tone I assume you're a control player. Do you know what happens when aggro can punish rogues harder? More of them will show up.
Do you know what happens when more aggro decks show up? Control decks can start preying on them and gain more breathing room because rogues are kept in check by the aggro decks.
These balance changes seem perfect for the current meta.
Eventually Kurthrus, Cariel, Tamsin and Guff will most likely get touched too, as they're only slightly less busted than scabbs. But that's probably for another time.
When I said the nerfs help aggro I was specifically talking about the match-up, not the overall meta. I explicitly said "I hope it [aggro] would subdue rogue and mage enough to let other decks be playable."
I hope these are wrong. Those nerfs help aggressive decks against rogue but not others. Rogue still has too much card draw and too many ways to deal massive damage from hand (Garrote + Guild Trader or Edwin + Mr. Smite). The nerfs mean you have an extra turn before they chain cloak into Scabbs.
Mage has the same problem. Too much card draw and damage from hand with Mozaki (previously the quest-line). Nerfing Incanter's Flow slows them down a bit. I hated the United in Stormwind meta at lower ranks because it was mostly quest-line mage and hyper-aggressive decks that countered mage (face hunter inparticular). Those nerfs would boost hyper-aggro. I hope it would subdue rogue and mage enough to let other decks be playable.
Instead of increasing Wildpaw Gnoll's cost I would be much happier if they fixed the interaction with Maestra. Wildpaw Gnoll is a good pay-off in a thief deck that runs thief cards like Swashburglar, but instead Maestra is used to discount Gnoll and it feels wrong. They could change Gnoll to say non-rogue cards.
Thanks for these articles. I have enjoyed them and I like the statistical analysis. It gives me a better idea of how long it would take to complete a questline, which is the hardest part to guess when looking at them.
The quest rewards has anti-synergy with the quest requirements, because double casting a spell with overload doubles the overload. Doubling Charged Call is nice but I am not sure if double casting spells is enough of a reward for playing 8 cards with overload in a class with little draw.
The quest looks too slow against aggressive decks and I don't know how much staying power it will have against control decks. I would not be surprised if I am completely wrong on this though.
The deathrattle of Tamsin's Dreadsteed uses the name "Tamsin's Dreadsteed" instead of "this minion" so I expect the whelps from Vectus would summon more dreadsteeds. It's an alternative to Teron for the zoo deck maybe.
I'm surprised they did not ban Far Watch Post in this brawl. Guaranteed on turn 2 and will probably force them to hero power on turn 2 and then play one turn late thereafter.
I went for paladin with Righteous Defender, Far Watch Post, Mor'shan Watch Post, Rally. Must be infuriating to play against.
These nerfs will weaken priest but I doubt they will make it much less frustrating to play against. Priest has many situationally very strong removal spells so if you ever want to develop a board then your game plan is to hope they do not draw/create the spell they need. You cannot 'play around' what a priest can do.
The best way to hurt priest is with non-board damage, such as weapons (Doomhammer shaman) or burn spells (mage). A combo finisher should be great but is stopped by Illucia.
I have been experimenting with control shaman and the Al'Akir + Nightmare combo would be great against priest but Illucia ruins it. Likewise Illucia stops rogue playing for an Alexstrasza + Tenwu finish. I was hoping they would effectively remove Illucia, as they once did to Warsong Commander. It didn't seem likely based on what they said they wanted to target, but I was hoping to be surprised.
Any kind of mid-range or aggro deck would include 2 copies of this card. It is much better than Fungalmancer, which was run in every deck that wanted to put on pressure. Even without minions to buff it is still two 4/3 minions for 5 mana which is not awful. If you have a single minion then it is great. Two or more minions and it is extremely powerful.
I don't see why there is such a focus on treant/token druid or nothing.
There may have been a warning if there wasn't the Christmas break. They probably wanted to get the nerfs out asap because the situation had already been left too long. Have a look at the most recent ViciousSyndicate report: They sounded completely jaded and disheartened by the meta.
I am happy they nerfed Edwin and would be happy to see him leave standard entirely. I don't want any more games determined by a big Edwin in the first 2 or 3 turns. It isn't fun. It isn't interactive.
If you don't play Edwin now, then the safest thing to do would be disenchant him now and then craft him later when they officially announce the cards that will be moved to the hall of fame. There's always a chance they change their mind about putting Edwin in the hall of fame.
I wish they would nerf card draw. Card draw is completely busted for some classes and those classes have been good for a while (demon hunter, rogue, warrior) and the classes with the worst card draw struggle (mage, priest). I think it is no surprise that shaman massively improved after the addition of card draw (Cagematch Custodian).
I thought generating cards was supposed to be a weakness of DH. They already have excellent card-draw. A legendary minion that generates cards feels out of place in DH. Interacting with left/right-most cards in hand is the the demon hunter part of it, but otherwise it would look fine a Shaman or Mage or Priest or Rogue card; the classes that are good at generating cards.
Demon Hunter is completely broken. With Blur all spells costs nothing and DH has a lot of card-drawing spells, as well as spells that give the hero attack. They even have silence to deal with taunts.
Thanks for the answer :) I hadn't played the deck much and I had a bad experience with a Witchy Lackey I could not play. I have more experience with the Risky Skipper version of enrage warrior where Warmaul Challenger is incredible, and against certain classes (particularly Druid), a buffed Warmaul Challenger could win the game. That version of warrior doesn't have such a strong turn 1 or 2 though.
How good is Livewire Lance? For pure face damage a Fiery War Axe is better, so how much do the lackeys matter? Particularly since the lackeys could prevent a draw off Voracious Reader.
Have you tried Warmaul Challenger instead? It's good for protecting 1-drops and 2-drops on turn three when they play early minions and its high health makes it difficult to remove, which makes it a good target for buffs. Is it too slow though?
I remember Frost Giant. I think that came later. Clockwork Giant was put into the core set if that counts. I'm sure I must have missed something though.
The problem is wider than Kazakusan. There are several super-powered cards that entire decks are built around. The quest-lines are examples, as is Mozaki. All of those decks have wild match-up spreads.
However, I think the biggest issue is the amount of card draw, and tutored card draw. This makes decks very consistent. Ramp druid needs Capture Coldtooth Mine and Moonlit Guidance to reliably draw Kazakusan. Quest-line hunter can run many low-cost spells because it has so much card draw. This allows decks to go all in on their win condition, which leads to polarised match-ups.
When I said the nerfs help aggro I was specifically talking about the match-up, not the overall meta. I explicitly said "I hope it [aggro] would subdue rogue and mage enough to let other decks be playable."
Also, there is no need to talk down to me.
I hope these are wrong. Those nerfs help aggressive decks against rogue but not others. Rogue still has too much card draw and too many ways to deal massive damage from hand (Garrote + Guild Trader or Edwin + Mr. Smite). The nerfs mean you have an extra turn before they chain cloak into Scabbs.
Mage has the same problem. Too much card draw and damage from hand with Mozaki (previously the quest-line). Nerfing Incanter's Flow slows them down a bit. I hated the United in Stormwind meta at lower ranks because it was mostly quest-line mage and hyper-aggressive decks that countered mage (face hunter inparticular). Those nerfs would boost hyper-aggro. I hope it would subdue rogue and mage enough to let other decks be playable.
Instead of increasing Wildpaw Gnoll's cost I would be much happier if they fixed the interaction with Maestra. Wildpaw Gnoll is a good pay-off in a thief deck that runs thief cards like Swashburglar, but instead Maestra is used to discount Gnoll and it feels wrong. They could change Gnoll to say non-rogue cards.
Thank you for telling me about the "refund" search command. It makes life easier.
Thanks for these articles. I have enjoyed them and I like the statistical analysis. It gives me a better idea of how long it would take to complete a questline, which is the hardest part to guess when looking at them.
The quest rewards has anti-synergy with the quest requirements, because double casting a spell with overload doubles the overload. Doubling Charged Call is nice but I am not sure if double casting spells is enough of a reward for playing 8 cards with overload in a class with little draw.
Shaman's best card draw is Primal Dungeoneer but that decklist has 14 nature spells and 8 non-nature spells (Investment Opportunity, Overdraft, Perpetual Flame, and Feral Spirit).
The quest looks too slow against aggressive decks and I don't know how much staying power it will have against control decks. I would not be surprised if I am completely wrong on this though.
The deathrattle of Tamsin's Dreadsteed uses the name "Tamsin's Dreadsteed" instead of "this minion" so I expect the whelps from Vectus would summon more dreadsteeds. It's an alternative to Teron for the zoo deck maybe.
I'm surprised they did not ban Far Watch Post in this brawl. Guaranteed on turn 2 and will probably force them to hero power on turn 2 and then play one turn late thereafter.
I went for paladin with Righteous Defender, Far Watch Post, Mor'shan Watch Post, Rally. Must be infuriating to play against.
These nerfs will weaken priest but I doubt they will make it much less frustrating to play against. Priest has many situationally very strong removal spells so if you ever want to develop a board then your game plan is to hope they do not draw/create the spell they need. You cannot 'play around' what a priest can do.
The best way to hurt priest is with non-board damage, such as weapons (Doomhammer shaman) or burn spells (mage). A combo finisher should be great but is stopped by Illucia.
I have been experimenting with control shaman and the Al'Akir + Nightmare combo would be great against priest but Illucia ruins it. Likewise Illucia stops rogue playing for an Alexstrasza + Tenwu finish. I was hoping they would effectively remove Illucia, as they once did to Warsong Commander. It didn't seem likely based on what they said they wanted to target, but I was hoping to be surprised.
Any kind of mid-range or aggro deck would include 2 copies of this card. It is much better than Fungalmancer, which was run in every deck that wanted to put on pressure. Even without minions to buff it is still two 4/3 minions for 5 mana which is not awful. If you have a single minion then it is great. Two or more minions and it is extremely powerful.
I don't see why there is such a focus on treant/token druid or nothing.
There may have been a warning if there wasn't the Christmas break. They probably wanted to get the nerfs out asap because the situation had already been left too long. Have a look at the most recent ViciousSyndicate report: They sounded completely jaded and disheartened by the meta.
I am happy they nerfed Edwin and would be happy to see him leave standard entirely. I don't want any more games determined by a big Edwin in the first 2 or 3 turns. It isn't fun. It isn't interactive.
If you don't play Edwin now, then the safest thing to do would be disenchant him now and then craft him later when they officially announce the cards that will be moved to the hall of fame. There's always a chance they change their mind about putting Edwin in the hall of fame.
I wish they would nerf card draw. Card draw is completely busted for some classes and those classes have been good for a while (demon hunter, rogue, warrior) and the classes with the worst card draw struggle (mage, priest). I think it is no surprise that shaman massively improved after the addition of card draw (Cagematch Custodian).
I thought generating cards was supposed to be a weakness of DH. They already have excellent card-draw. A legendary minion that generates cards feels out of place in DH. Interacting with left/right-most cards in hand is the the demon hunter part of it, but otherwise it would look fine a Shaman or Mage or Priest or Rogue card; the classes that are good at generating cards.
Reno doesn't play the golden minion though so he does not get to discover a minion from the tavern tier above.
Demon Hunter is completely broken. With Blur all spells costs nothing and DH has a lot of card-drawing spells, as well as spells that give the hero attack. They even have silence to deal with taunts.
Thanks for the answer :) I hadn't played the deck much and I had a bad experience with a Witchy Lackey I could not play. I have more experience with the Risky Skipper version of enrage warrior where Warmaul Challenger is incredible, and against certain classes (particularly Druid), a buffed Warmaul Challenger could win the game. That version of warrior doesn't have such a strong turn 1 or 2 though.
How good is Livewire Lance? For pure face damage a Fiery War Axe is better, so how much do the lackeys matter? Particularly since the lackeys could prevent a draw off Voracious Reader.
Have you tried Warmaul Challenger instead? It's good for protecting 1-drops and 2-drops on turn three when they play early minions and its high health makes it difficult to remove, which makes it a good target for buffs. Is it too slow though?