Yeah I used to play a lot of arena in diamond between the beta with amohnket and ixilan, well past war of the spark.
Speaking of arena as a perfect example I actually stopped playing and moved to lor exactly because rotation exists and I could no longer play my favorite decks and archetypes outside of historic.
I think a lot of people did including well known streamers.
Like yes it will be a very fresh time if they delete tf, or lee sin.
Because as we've seen players typically flock to what's good excluding me of course who is happy to make a lot of off meta archetypes work.
It's that mostly even balance curve - like meta being defined as 50% average champ, and 56% top tier is actually a very slim margin
So for the devs to throw that all away and only focus on that top 1% competitive crowd I think is a bit of a waste.
Official news here, LOR is becoming like other CCG's now.
So lets list pros and cons and try to be civil.
Pros:
Balancing old archetypes and regions namely Bilgewater has been like a two year commitment on the part of the devs, and it's something they have to spend constant time and resources on.
Cards like TF while interesting and unique as far as champions are concerned are constantly ending up in some of the best decks in the game (tf swain, tf nami, tf fizz)
It's possible with rotation that newer champs will be seeing more play
Broadens the design space so the devs don't have to balance around legacy interactions
Less time spent updating old champs to be viable again with re-designs
Cons:
The main thing that makes LOR unique is the evergreen state of the meta and how every champ and every card remains playable and somewhat viable in the competitive space in terms of a deck building consideration even if not in terms of the power curve.
Updating old archetypes, followers, and champs is what makes patches so interesting in LOR
Your favorite deck/playstyle potentially getting rotated out of ladder, unless there is a separate equally competitive ladder for the evergreen mode
Personally I weigh in on the con side as the entitled gamer I am saying devs just keep doing amazing comprehensive balance patches forever - just do it.
But again easier said then done, especially as the card pool continually expands over the years and there's more and more to balance.
So yeah Swain has more stats huge body for his cost, great key words great champ spell all around good guy.
Gonna be played by 99% of the player base early on because people like to win.
And originality is hard vs bandwagoning on what been pushed at this moment.
But if I had to guess what the revert for this patch is, just like hate spike and kenin was last patch.
It would be boat, having double stun lockdown availible to Swain on 7 feels insanely strong right now, almost too strong for what it's achieving.
You look at something like orn (recently buffed) or malphite or asol and those cards are just never swinging again.
Like they buffed a champ which was pretty solid, and also deleted him at the same time which is pretty saj to me.
So yeah lethiathan back to 8 with Swain keeping his current stats seems to me to be the obvious revert for this patch so I would enjoy it while it lasts.
A really common fallacy I see in LOR players is the idea that if you can jam your wincon as hard as possible as fast as possible that makes you a strong player.
This is a ladder playing philosophy and the problem with this two dimensional playstyle is that you're essentially letting yourself get read.
Its like okay all I have to do is play a deck that's sufficiently fast enough to deal with opponent jamming their hand and I'l win guaranteed because there is no fall back plan, no nuance, no what the hell is that.
Honestly, it's sad really.
Anyway here's my new region rankings after the patch:
Personally I love that pirates is getting shot in its big dumb aggro face.
The nerfs to both decimate and Riptide sermon make it difficult for aggro decks to justify running both cards.
Like yeah pass pass Riptide sermon is still a super viable play pattern for a control deck, but the aggro deck now needs to decide okay well if I want to flood the board, play Riptide, and decimate for 6 two times I might not have the spell mana to do all of that.
And honestly thank God
The second deck hit is plunder pirates but not as much because they don't run decimate. Like I don't love the deck because it's kinda ping ping ping blah here's my gangplank narf.
But people enjoy it thats good.
Massive Fiora buff to a 4 mana 4/4 honestly they did this for one reason and one reason only. Going wide became the only viable way to play LOR even the best control deck was Heimer grandma, and it just floods. Nami Tf just floods, aggro just floods, it was too easy and reliable and uncounterable.
So if you want to que into a tournament, or ladder with 3 decks that all do the same thing but just represent aggro vs control wincons then that one edgy Fiora player will wipe you and honestly that's okay.
Umm as for the buffs to daybreak and nightfall all good with me, same thing with master Yi being the worst card of the expansion actually doing something now.
The nerfs to high variance decks equally great I don't like peak, and I certainly don't like Concurrent time lines.
The buff to orn is nice, he was already on the edge of viability.
Swain is good, it used to be that Annie tf was undoubtedly the better deck by far, now it's a valid consideration between the two.
They didn't nerf anything that didn't need it like hate spike and ninja, and they didn't buff anything that will break the game but revitalizes low playmate champions.
Overall I can't wait, I literally won't que again till pirates gets murdered, and it's been several years in the making.
1. They overhauled Leona and put in the extra effort. She now challenges and has barrier so she acts like a midrange Diana which suits targon better.
2. The overhaul extended to the entire kit sun guardian now grows based on number of daybreak and only costs 3. Other changes are impactful cost reductions to spells.
3. Nocturn levels off fearsome, so he can be built with kalista and twisted tree lines instead of Diana.
Things I got kinda right:
1. Kenein, and hate spike revert
2. ILLOI revert
3. Sermon dmg reduction
4. They hit Concurrent timeliness but also targons Peak thank God, because you could ramp to 5 and hit asol on 6
5. Viego got hit, now costs the same as bontu dogo bogo
6. They just hit stats on 9 tails instead of cards still a 3 of in my oppinion.
7. Harrowing and rite of calling cost increase
8. And of course my biggest call decimate at 6 thank God.
9. Swain got overwhelm and lethiatan costs 7 that's big.
10. Yi didn't get easier to level but now permanently reduces spell cost. So you slowly accrue 0 cost spells in hand over time that is a powerful effect but still a bitch to level
11. Ohrn levels at 8 dmg so he can land flipped on 7
So I change my rating to a 8.7 for the extra work put into Leona and Nocturn.
Viego - Yeah like you can hit his initial stats and it won't matter too much because he's a grower not a shower.
Hate spike - mystic shot for 1 might have been an overstep
Thousand tales - too much card advantage with no down side could just cycle and it would be fine
Riptide sermon - yeah 1 face dmg is fine for this card and it will still be great
Concurrent timeliness - rasa fraza hurmergurd sorry little freak out there for nerfing this meme
Harrowing - yeah one card shouldn't be so game winning
Mark of the storm - once again the fact that a one drop wasn't only mystic shooting and stunning he was get exciting was probably a bit much
Rite of calling - yeah particularly problematic when the card tutors for bontu big o dog God at 22 stats, so a nerf here is nice
Decimate - back to back decimate is literally been a game defining play pattern for as long as I can remember at 6 mana its a little more taxing for the aggro player.
Buffs:
Leona - yeah haven't seen daybreak since its literal release great buff target
Tahm Kench - yeah soraka tahm shouldn't feel so bad to play and win with
Nocturn - honestly this deck is really close to being competitive with Diana so this buff might really matter
Master Yi - God yes 12 dmg in Ionia is impossible, and if you run him in noxious as a combo piece the deck suffers on the control spectrum so making him easier to turbo is good
Fiora - Grapler gonna be happy that she goes back to a 3/3 and at those stats is legitimately frightening and thats good she should feed on grandma bunny to keep the deck in check
Swain - probably gonna make it easier for him to land on 5 leveled so it's more of a gangplank level threat
Sun guardian - really hard for daybreak to close put games so big overwhelm plus stun is a good combo
Illoi - honestly still a really good card, and reverting her nerf will make her great again, but the tenticle smash nerf will remain for balance I personally don't play that card in Illoi anymore
Morning light - more daybreak stuff
Ohrn - once again he's a damn good card already but has weaknesses to stun and bounce say 8 levels off 8 dmg swing then he's guaranteed to come down on 7 pre leveled and threatening overwhelm
Solari Steilacorn - hasn't been a card but might be a valid healing choice for daybreak into aggro.
Vilemaw and twisted tree line - Kalista fearsome with the ghosts hadn't been a deck so absolutely throw it a buff
Eula, paper tree - kinda the meme portion of thr patch but every great patch need meme buffs so that makes me happy
Shireking spinner - I love this card for flavor give actual spider tribal a threatening follower and it wasn't that bad to begin with
Ritual of renewal - can be 6 mana and then you try to double cast with karma worth experimenting
Rippers bay - it's the only bad lurk card so absolutely make it do something
Lethiathan - 8 drops in this meta need to be game winning and its initial overwhelm stats of 5 is too low for where thr game is right now
Magical journey - its the Bard grandma card that defined the archetype, except it was bad and nobody played it maybe now it cycles?
Realms caretaker - more meme buffs which is good
Rock bear - midrange landmark hasn't been a deck for a looooong time probably a yeti now and that's very strong
Fun Smith- pushing the new equipment synergy to jam up your spell dmg
Mammoths- these are the bad freijord transform cards and while transform is better than people think it could use a finisher
Wind singer - units that bounce is a very blue magic mtg kinda card and it's over priced in LOR
And thats it for the patch
I would pre-rate it a 8 for very good. Hits what it needs to, buffs underplayed Champs, and followers, and some fun meme stuff.
Not sure what Majin Bae is basing that on other them pirate aggro, and pirate plunder being the two best decks in LOR since rising tides and only gets better with each patch.
Yeah, like rather then being a dick I can say that I'm a diamond rank meme lord and if you want to friend match up and I show you a few key play patterns of LOR if you want.
There are better players for sure, but simple things like open attack spam (3/4's) of how this game is played is your best friend into ruination a slow speed spell.
Leveraging burst spells to their fullest in combination with the above, including counter spells in deck building, there's just a ton of stuff I could get you up to speed on.
Or I can just jam deck lists here in the thread and show you how to play them, both meta which I won't play and know how and off meta which are fun.
When all that fails turbo leveling champions as your wincon is a great solution another large play patternof the game.
Things like gangplank landing on 5 leveled and swinging is gonna beat anything but a vengence, and then if you spread out your board vengence doesn't matter which is why everyone runs grandma or Heimer now to board spam.
Again, happy to help don't let the community bring you down they are alright guys
Thats a fair oppinion, that is the thing that set LOR apart afterall the evergreen state of the competitive scene.
But I still feel like there's probably some healthy tweaking to be done, because 4 - 5 competitive Bilgewater decks does feel a little over represented.
Even the fact that they now have a mystic shot in heavy mettle, the best 2 mana board clear in make it rain, the best 5 mana draw, the best 6 mana removal etc.
If I had to guess Bilgewater is the reason Riot was starting to consider rotation. Because man the more tools they keep printing for them the stronger they get every season.
Thats five top tier decks in one region identity with the last of which only recently having been nerfed but it still very strong and playable in my opinion just getting pushed out by shadow grandma bunny a little bit.
Regardless even with the current count at 4 (5 for me ) top tier decks all coexisting within the Bilgewater region identity it begs the question is it just too good, and has it been too good for too long and will it ever stop being so pervasive?
Like its possible everyone is okay with Bilgewater and the Rising Tides expansion being the face of LOR but personally I do find that it exists as too much of a one stop shop at the moment.
Here are a few of its current problems that make it the best/easier region in the game to succeed or pilot right now:
1. Burn potential - six mana deal 4, spawn 3 deal 2 is a little too strong (3 of in pirate aggro, and plunder, can probably go in scouts, and is a 3 of in my Annie tf list)
2. Card draw potential 5 mana draw 2 spawn 2 I literally run as a 3 of in deep for God sakes, because it can burst block, burst attack while maintaining card advantage
3. Tempo, 1 mana summon a 3/3, 2 mana summon 4/2 of stats across 2 bodies, 4 mana scout and a million cycle bodies.
4. Elusives, way back in the day you used to run this archetype in Ionia but now it's Nami as your one stop shop
5. Amazing Chmpions, this is the real nail in the coffin or the Z Virus gene that keeps the oldest region in Runeterra evergreen in the meta to the point of dominating the meta. Mf, Tf, Gangplank babeeee never gonna die.
I think its probably time the LOR devs to think to themselves yes rising tides was an awesome expansion, people liked it, good times had by all, but has it been played out.
Can we start exploring the dominance of other regions, like what about poor targon? I won't say Shurima cuz it does a few things so well that it's actually a pain to play against, and finally I like bandlewood there I said it sue me.
Yeah he seems fairly agredious example of what not to do right now though.
His champ spell is 4 mana deal 1...Annie's champ spell is 2 mana kill a thing like the developers had to know he was bad.
Like in the past LoR's champ reworks have been very sucessful Katarina went from a total meme to a literal scary ******* card.
On the other hand overpowered cards like bard became very playable and fun in casual or not try hard climbing (the only way to climb) FYI.
So the devs know what they are doing it just seems like when they were hitting Annie, Illoi, and Bard they kinda forgot they released Jhin in the same set.
They also seemed to forget that bilgewater is becoming such a staple for aggro decks that there is literally no reason why you would ever want to play a Runeterra champion unless he is significantly pushed on the card itself.
I'd like to see him get some love next patch thats for sure, so we see less pirate aggro for variety.
As a brewer I make it a dedicated mission to create decks with every champion that can in fact win and put up a solid fight against meta decks.
This is why I can chose to climb with things like Ohrn Jax, as easily as something listed on mobalytics.
But man does Jhin just suck right now. I hate to say it but if he is ever going to be competitively viable again he needs to A (be a brew around stun card) with lotus traps procing stun or be a dedicated burn card with lotus traps doing 2 dmg like a mystic shot (still costs 3 skill procs) or buff his synergy girl to do 2 dmg.
As it stands right now he is an aggro card with a 50% winrate which by aggro standards is atrocious and as a control card sees zero play.
Plz re-work Jhin Riot because he is actually pretty baller voice lines etc.
I think he just started playing guys like while it's easy to jump on him and say there isn't a single competitive deck that mains ruination currently and that dedicated spell heavy control decks like darkness are kinda bad right now.
While things like pirate aggro have had and always will have an exceptional winrate, it might be more helpful to ask what is he playing, and how he can better play around board cleares.
Lor has always been a game that has been balanced on a strict design curve.
No new set whether it be awakening, world waker, bandlewood, shurima or Targon can be or should be better then Bilgewater.
But this creates one very big design problem, aka pirate aggro, always statistically a top tier deck, it has only gotten better and more consistent with time.
Riptide sermon being both an amazing tool for control, burn, and agressive decks and the value of equipment namely fisher girl allowing you to say play an on curve threat but then give mf quick attack.
It can be too much for even the best deck brewers and players to deal with, unless you tech in a crap ton of healing.
So if you ever want to play Lor in a world where pirate doesn't exist say 2 years from now, and as a secondary almost draft environment I don't think that necessarily a terrible idea.
On the flip side however to make rotation the new standard does spit in the face of what makes this game unique which is an ageless power curve.
Tf is a good card, MF is a good card, gangplank is a good card, they will never stop being good cards for as long as there are people willing to play them, that is LOR it's not a card game so much as a permanently viable competitive landscape similar to League of Legends for better or worse thats the game and I love/hate it.
So I was able to get to rank 1 Diamond and maintain a pretty healthy winrate with entirely off meta decks.
But it takes a pretty hard-core person to deal with the onslaught of tryhards in what is turning out to be a pretty unpleasant line up of top tier decks.
Still waiting to see what the next balance patch will bring with things so turbo right now, it's very rare that it feels like you're actually playing a card game and more so Russian roulette where you want to brain yourself.
Still memes are memes and I did pretty well despite all those factors. I'll try again next meta after a very healthy patch.
Just hit diamond with an old staple the deck list is pretty much the same as I always run the archetype.
Heavy on the pings, heavy on the turbo leveling, and then with a full set of tentacle draw to A devalue open attacks, B provide card advantage, and C go deep faster.
I believe landmark is a staple for the archetype not running it is usually wrong, because again you can guarantee flips to devalue open attacks, or guarantee deep at end of turn, or just play something that is proactive but cant be removed by opponent.
Deep New Meta
A Runeterra Deck created by
Nifty129. Last updated 1 year, 9 months ago
Overall meta seems fine, I still don't love the dice roll decks that are fairly prevalent but a good player will always win 70% more then he losses at low plat ranks so it doesn't really matter you'll climb easily.
So I have thoughts about the latest tier list and let's go through the decks one by one.
1. Pirates - like yeah great aggro deck but also has essentially been the same since rising tides give or take a few new tools. If you lose to this its your fault.
2. Timeliness - also a bad deck, but it can highroll so hard that you don't even get to play the game with your good deck and for that reason hits number 1 on my nerf list (equipment timeliness interaction)
3. Ezreal Kenin - lol what? Like don't get me wrong infinite card advantage Ionia is always a valid deck because it is only 1 deck but that being said I find the champ pkg here lacking as a win condition and more often you just let them die so you can draw more cards.
4. Kindred Nasus - new equipment sac cards are scary who doesn't want infinite 7/7's in a undying deck, and for one mana? Probably not nerfable unless you make the 7/7 cost 8 or something.
5. Kaisa - yeah honestly I like her she's easy to beat and is champ focused midrange eith only 1 decent win condition. Very balanced since her spell got put to slow speed.
A tier is mostly more infinite card advantage shenanigans, we have a Gwen deck which is cool, Evelyn Viego still doing their thing, Annie, Darkness, Scouts.
All good stuff, so basically I only see 1 nerf that's needed (time lines equipment) because it's less of a deck and more I get to roll 2 dice each turn and hope they combine into something broken.
Oh also deep, azir irelia, Lurk, with ekko and Kaine being solid B tier options.
One thing you can say about awakening is that it successfully shook up the play patterns and deck building requirements to such an extent I basically didn't know how to play or recognize LOR anymore.
And while I stand by the statement that some of the new additions are pretty strong as a dedicated control player, as in play and respond not just jam put card advantage till you win.
I didnt know what to do and I felt the new set was to blame, so let me share my findings on what works great if you don't want to play Ionia or Shurima, cuz I really don't:
1. 3 minimorphs feel pretty much required, Lee Sin, machine gun Aussie, Viego, all backed by 4 mana denys, so guess what burst removal can't be denied so run 3.
2. 1 mana equipment removal, I feel like silence and surpess and quietus are low key necessary as a 3 of no mater what.
3. Now you get to build the rest of your deck including pings, vengences/concerted strikes, draw, cycling creatures etc.
4. Synergy and turbo level pkg
5. Play slow play smart, generally speaking meta decks are just insane at tempo and infinite value, and turboing and just all sorts of crazy **** but once you recognize the new patters you're good here's a few examples
- snap kill monkey!
- only remove equipment that is providing additional value to the opponent appropriately judging this action takes a lot of games
- gently devalue open attack spam, this is huge for how I play control where you incentive a linear play style in the opponent that luls them into a false security that they are winning 3 dmg here or there, meanwhile they are essentially doing nothing while you for example burst level Lux or double darkness, or set up overwhelm swings etc.
- finally big take away in a 6 deny meta don't play ramp, don't play deep, these were strong picks last meta I really would not recommend right now, but lurk seems good.
So yeah back to big winstreaks in Plat one week after the expansion, my brews are doing well, but a lot of my old decks are unplayable now Awakening was a huge shift but overall a fun one, so good job Riot maybe hahaha.
Yeah I used to play a lot of arena in diamond between the beta with amohnket and ixilan, well past war of the spark.
Speaking of arena as a perfect example I actually stopped playing and moved to lor exactly because rotation exists and I could no longer play my favorite decks and archetypes outside of historic.
I think a lot of people did including well known streamers.
Like yes it will be a very fresh time if they delete tf, or lee sin.
Because as we've seen players typically flock to what's good excluding me of course who is happy to make a lot of off meta archetypes work.
It's that mostly even balance curve - like meta being defined as 50% average champ, and 56% top tier is actually a very slim margin
So for the devs to throw that all away and only focus on that top 1% competitive crowd I think is a bit of a waste.
But if it has to be done then what can you do.
https://playruneterra.com/en-sg/news/dev/rotation-in-legends-of-runeterra/
Official news here, LOR is becoming like other CCG's now.
So lets list pros and cons and try to be civil.
Pros:
Balancing old archetypes and regions namely Bilgewater has been like a two year commitment on the part of the devs, and it's something they have to spend constant time and resources on.
Cards like TF while interesting and unique as far as champions are concerned are constantly ending up in some of the best decks in the game (tf swain, tf nami, tf fizz)
It's possible with rotation that newer champs will be seeing more play
Broadens the design space so the devs don't have to balance around legacy interactions
Less time spent updating old champs to be viable again with re-designs
Cons:
The main thing that makes LOR unique is the evergreen state of the meta and how every champ and every card remains playable and somewhat viable in the competitive space in terms of a deck building consideration even if not in terms of the power curve.
Updating old archetypes, followers, and champs is what makes patches so interesting in LOR
Your favorite deck/playstyle potentially getting rotated out of ladder, unless there is a separate equally competitive ladder for the evergreen mode
Personally I weigh in on the con side as the entitled gamer I am saying devs just keep doing amazing comprehensive balance patches forever - just do it.
But again easier said then done, especially as the card pool continually expands over the years and there's more and more to balance.
So yeah Swain has more stats huge body for his cost, great key words great champ spell all around good guy.
Gonna be played by 99% of the player base early on because people like to win.
And originality is hard vs bandwagoning on what been pushed at this moment.
But if I had to guess what the revert for this patch is, just like hate spike and kenin was last patch.
It would be boat, having double stun lockdown availible to Swain on 7 feels insanely strong right now, almost too strong for what it's achieving.
You look at something like orn (recently buffed) or malphite or asol and those cards are just never swinging again.
Like they buffed a champ which was pretty solid, and also deleted him at the same time which is pretty saj to me.
So yeah lethiathan back to 8 with Swain keeping his current stats seems to me to be the obvious revert for this patch so I would enjoy it while it lasts.
A really common fallacy I see in LOR players is the idea that if you can jam your wincon as hard as possible as fast as possible that makes you a strong player.
This is a ladder playing philosophy and the problem with this two dimensional playstyle is that you're essentially letting yourself get read.
Its like okay all I have to do is play a deck that's sufficiently fast enough to deal with opponent jamming their hand and I'l win guaranteed because there is no fall back plan, no nuance, no what the hell is that.
Honestly, it's sad really.
Anyway here's my new region rankings after the patch:
1. Ionia
2. Shadowisles
3. Bilgewater
4. Shurima
5. Noxious
6. Demacia
7. Targon
8. Freijord
9. Bandle city
10. Runeterra
That is kinda the goal of a balance patch yeah. Like I dont envy Riot of they add rotation everyone will be pissed.
If they do a massive comprehensive balance patch to shift the meta people will be pissed who aren't me.
So kind of a dammed if you do dammed if you don't scenario.
But I think after this patch lands the already great balance of LOR will be just about perfect.
Personally I love that pirates is getting shot in its big dumb aggro face.
The nerfs to both decimate and Riptide sermon make it difficult for aggro decks to justify running both cards.
Like yeah pass pass Riptide sermon is still a super viable play pattern for a control deck, but the aggro deck now needs to decide okay well if I want to flood the board, play Riptide, and decimate for 6 two times I might not have the spell mana to do all of that.
And honestly thank God
The second deck hit is plunder pirates but not as much because they don't run decimate. Like I don't love the deck because it's kinda ping ping ping blah here's my gangplank narf.
But people enjoy it thats good.
Massive Fiora buff to a 4 mana 4/4 honestly they did this for one reason and one reason only. Going wide became the only viable way to play LOR even the best control deck was Heimer grandma, and it just floods. Nami Tf just floods, aggro just floods, it was too easy and reliable and uncounterable.
So if you want to que into a tournament, or ladder with 3 decks that all do the same thing but just represent aggro vs control wincons then that one edgy Fiora player will wipe you and honestly that's okay.
Umm as for the buffs to daybreak and nightfall all good with me, same thing with master Yi being the worst card of the expansion actually doing something now.
The nerfs to high variance decks equally great I don't like peak, and I certainly don't like Concurrent time lines.
The buff to orn is nice, he was already on the edge of viability.
Swain is good, it used to be that Annie tf was undoubtedly the better deck by far, now it's a valid consideration between the two.
They didn't nerf anything that didn't need it like hate spike and ninja, and they didn't buff anything that will break the game but revitalizes low playmate champions.
Overall I can't wait, I literally won't que again till pirates gets murdered, and it's been several years in the making.
Here are the specifics from their balance presentation/livestream https://imgur.io/a/pOHTBUf
What I got wrong:
1. They overhauled Leona and put in the extra effort. She now challenges and has barrier so she acts like a midrange Diana which suits targon better.
2. The overhaul extended to the entire kit sun guardian now grows based on number of daybreak and only costs 3. Other changes are impactful cost reductions to spells.
3. Nocturn levels off fearsome, so he can be built with kalista and twisted tree lines instead of Diana.
Things I got kinda right:
1. Kenein, and hate spike revert
2. ILLOI revert
3. Sermon dmg reduction
4. They hit Concurrent timeliness but also targons Peak thank God, because you could ramp to 5 and hit asol on 6
5. Viego got hit, now costs the same as bontu dogo bogo
6. They just hit stats on 9 tails instead of cards still a 3 of in my oppinion.
7. Harrowing and rite of calling cost increase
8. And of course my biggest call decimate at 6 thank God.
9. Swain got overwhelm and lethiatan costs 7 that's big.
10. Yi didn't get easier to level but now permanently reduces spell cost. So you slowly accrue 0 cost spells in hand over time that is a powerful effect but still a bitch to level
11. Ohrn levels at 8 dmg so he can land flipped on 7
So I change my rating to a 8.7 for the extra work put into Leona and Nocturn.
Just gonna go through every card that was listed.
Nerfs:
Viego - Yeah like you can hit his initial stats and it won't matter too much because he's a grower not a shower.
Hate spike - mystic shot for 1 might have been an overstep
Thousand tales - too much card advantage with no down side could just cycle and it would be fine
Riptide sermon - yeah 1 face dmg is fine for this card and it will still be great
Concurrent timeliness - rasa fraza hurmergurd sorry little freak out there for nerfing this meme
Harrowing - yeah one card shouldn't be so game winning
Mark of the storm - once again the fact that a one drop wasn't only mystic shooting and stunning he was get exciting was probably a bit much
Rite of calling - yeah particularly problematic when the card tutors for bontu big o dog God at 22 stats, so a nerf here is nice
Decimate - back to back decimate is literally been a game defining play pattern for as long as I can remember at 6 mana its a little more taxing for the aggro player.
Buffs:
Leona - yeah haven't seen daybreak since its literal release great buff target
Tahm Kench - yeah soraka tahm shouldn't feel so bad to play and win with
Nocturn - honestly this deck is really close to being competitive with Diana so this buff might really matter
Master Yi - God yes 12 dmg in Ionia is impossible, and if you run him in noxious as a combo piece the deck suffers on the control spectrum so making him easier to turbo is good
Fiora - Grapler gonna be happy that she goes back to a 3/3 and at those stats is legitimately frightening and thats good she should feed on grandma bunny to keep the deck in check
Swain - probably gonna make it easier for him to land on 5 leveled so it's more of a gangplank level threat
Sun guardian - really hard for daybreak to close put games so big overwhelm plus stun is a good combo
Illoi - honestly still a really good card, and reverting her nerf will make her great again, but the tenticle smash nerf will remain for balance I personally don't play that card in Illoi anymore
Morning light - more daybreak stuff
Ohrn - once again he's a damn good card already but has weaknesses to stun and bounce say 8 levels off 8 dmg swing then he's guaranteed to come down on 7 pre leveled and threatening overwhelm
Solari Steilacorn - hasn't been a card but might be a valid healing choice for daybreak into aggro.
Vilemaw and twisted tree line - Kalista fearsome with the ghosts hadn't been a deck so absolutely throw it a buff
Eula, paper tree - kinda the meme portion of thr patch but every great patch need meme buffs so that makes me happy
Shireking spinner - I love this card for flavor give actual spider tribal a threatening follower and it wasn't that bad to begin with
Ritual of renewal - can be 6 mana and then you try to double cast with karma worth experimenting
Rippers bay - it's the only bad lurk card so absolutely make it do something
Lethiathan - 8 drops in this meta need to be game winning and its initial overwhelm stats of 5 is too low for where thr game is right now
Magical journey - its the Bard grandma card that defined the archetype, except it was bad and nobody played it maybe now it cycles?
Realms caretaker - more meme buffs which is good
Rock bear - midrange landmark hasn't been a deck for a looooong time probably a yeti now and that's very strong
Fun Smith- pushing the new equipment synergy to jam up your spell dmg
Mammoths- these are the bad freijord transform cards and while transform is better than people think it could use a finisher
Wind singer - units that bounce is a very blue magic mtg kinda card and it's over priced in LOR
And thats it for the patch
I would pre-rate it a 8 for very good. Hits what it needs to, buffs underplayed Champs, and followers, and some fun meme stuff.
Not sure what Majin Bae is basing that on other them pirate aggro, and pirate plunder being the two best decks in LOR since rising tides and only gets better with each patch.
As for me having fun with my memes as always.
Hallowed blade dance feeling pretty sick beat the Azir Irelia mirror.
Jarvan Illoi still doing tenticle things the proper way as opposed to just jamming the 6 cost spell into every deck.
Overall I have to say that besides bilgewater, r and g grandma, and r and g spell things are pretty strong and balanced meta wise.
Yeah, like rather then being a dick I can say that I'm a diamond rank meme lord and if you want to friend match up and I show you a few key play patterns of LOR if you want.
There are better players for sure, but simple things like open attack spam (3/4's) of how this game is played is your best friend into ruination a slow speed spell.
Leveraging burst spells to their fullest in combination with the above, including counter spells in deck building, there's just a ton of stuff I could get you up to speed on.
Or I can just jam deck lists here in the thread and show you how to play them, both meta which I won't play and know how and off meta which are fun.
When all that fails turbo leveling champions as your wincon is a great solution another large play patternof the game.
Things like gangplank landing on 5 leveled and swinging is gonna beat anything but a vengence, and then if you spread out your board vengence doesn't matter which is why everyone runs grandma or Heimer now to board spam.
Again, happy to help don't let the community bring you down they are alright guys
Thats a fair oppinion, that is the thing that set LOR apart afterall the evergreen state of the competitive scene.
But I still feel like there's probably some healthy tweaking to be done, because 4 - 5 competitive Bilgewater decks does feel a little over represented.
Even the fact that they now have a mystic shot in heavy mettle, the best 2 mana board clear in make it rain, the best 5 mana draw, the best 6 mana removal etc.
If I had to guess Bilgewater is the reason Riot was starting to consider rotation. Because man the more tools they keep printing for them the stronger they get every season.
1. Pirate aggro (burn)
2. Plunder midrange (gangplank)
3. Nami Tf (combo)
4. Scouts (rally)
5. Annie/Swain TF (control)
Thats five top tier decks in one region identity with the last of which only recently having been nerfed but it still very strong and playable in my opinion just getting pushed out by shadow grandma bunny a little bit.
Regardless even with the current count at 4 (5 for me ) top tier decks all coexisting within the Bilgewater region identity it begs the question is it just too good, and has it been too good for too long and will it ever stop being so pervasive?
Like its possible everyone is okay with Bilgewater and the Rising Tides expansion being the face of LOR but personally I do find that it exists as too much of a one stop shop at the moment.
Here are a few of its current problems that make it the best/easier region in the game to succeed or pilot right now:
1. Burn potential - six mana deal 4, spawn 3 deal 2 is a little too strong (3 of in pirate aggro, and plunder, can probably go in scouts, and is a 3 of in my Annie tf list)
2. Card draw potential 5 mana draw 2 spawn 2 I literally run as a 3 of in deep for God sakes, because it can burst block, burst attack while maintaining card advantage
3. Tempo, 1 mana summon a 3/3, 2 mana summon 4/2 of stats across 2 bodies, 4 mana scout and a million cycle bodies.
4. Elusives, way back in the day you used to run this archetype in Ionia but now it's Nami as your one stop shop
5. Amazing Chmpions, this is the real nail in the coffin or the Z Virus gene that keeps the oldest region in Runeterra evergreen in the meta to the point of dominating the meta. Mf, Tf, Gangplank babeeee never gonna die.
I think its probably time the LOR devs to think to themselves yes rising tides was an awesome expansion, people liked it, good times had by all, but has it been played out.
Can we start exploring the dominance of other regions, like what about poor targon? I won't say Shurima cuz it does a few things so well that it's actually a pain to play against, and finally I like bandlewood there I said it sue me.
Yeah he seems fairly agredious example of what not to do right now though.
His champ spell is 4 mana deal 1...Annie's champ spell is 2 mana kill a thing like the developers had to know he was bad.
Like in the past LoR's champ reworks have been very sucessful Katarina went from a total meme to a literal scary ******* card.
On the other hand overpowered cards like bard became very playable and fun in casual or not try hard climbing (the only way to climb) FYI.
So the devs know what they are doing it just seems like when they were hitting Annie, Illoi, and Bard they kinda forgot they released Jhin in the same set.
They also seemed to forget that bilgewater is becoming such a staple for aggro decks that there is literally no reason why you would ever want to play a Runeterra champion unless he is significantly pushed on the card itself.
I'd like to see him get some love next patch thats for sure, so we see less pirate aggro for variety.
As a brewer I make it a dedicated mission to create decks with every champion that can in fact win and put up a solid fight against meta decks.
This is why I can chose to climb with things like Ohrn Jax, as easily as something listed on mobalytics.
But man does Jhin just suck right now. I hate to say it but if he is ever going to be competitively viable again he needs to A (be a brew around stun card) with lotus traps procing stun or be a dedicated burn card with lotus traps doing 2 dmg like a mystic shot (still costs 3 skill procs) or buff his synergy girl to do 2 dmg.
As it stands right now he is an aggro card with a 50% winrate which by aggro standards is atrocious and as a control card sees zero play.
Plz re-work Jhin Riot because he is actually pretty baller voice lines etc.
I think he just started playing guys like while it's easy to jump on him and say there isn't a single competitive deck that mains ruination currently and that dedicated spell heavy control decks like darkness are kinda bad right now.
While things like pirate aggro have had and always will have an exceptional winrate, it might be more helpful to ask what is he playing, and how he can better play around board cleares.
Lor has always been a game that has been balanced on a strict design curve.
No new set whether it be awakening, world waker, bandlewood, shurima or Targon can be or should be better then Bilgewater.
But this creates one very big design problem, aka pirate aggro, always statistically a top tier deck, it has only gotten better and more consistent with time.
Riptide sermon being both an amazing tool for control, burn, and agressive decks and the value of equipment namely fisher girl allowing you to say play an on curve threat but then give mf quick attack.
It can be too much for even the best deck brewers and players to deal with, unless you tech in a crap ton of healing.
So if you ever want to play Lor in a world where pirate doesn't exist say 2 years from now, and as a secondary almost draft environment I don't think that necessarily a terrible idea.
On the flip side however to make rotation the new standard does spit in the face of what makes this game unique which is an ageless power curve.
Tf is a good card, MF is a good card, gangplank is a good card, they will never stop being good cards for as long as there are people willing to play them, that is LOR it's not a card game so much as a permanently viable competitive landscape similar to League of Legends for better or worse thats the game and I love/hate it.
So I was able to get to rank 1 Diamond and maintain a pretty healthy winrate with entirely off meta decks.
But it takes a pretty hard-core person to deal with the onslaught of tryhards in what is turning out to be a pretty unpleasant line up of top tier decks.
Still waiting to see what the next balance patch will bring with things so turbo right now, it's very rare that it feels like you're actually playing a card game and more so Russian roulette where you want to brain yourself.
Still memes are memes and I did pretty well despite all those factors. I'll try again next meta after a very healthy patch.
Just hit diamond with an old staple the deck list is pretty much the same as I always run the archetype.
Heavy on the pings, heavy on the turbo leveling, and then with a full set of tentacle draw to A devalue open attacks, B provide card advantage, and C go deep faster.
I believe landmark is a staple for the archetype not running it is usually wrong, because again you can guarantee flips to devalue open attacks, or guarantee deep at end of turn, or just play something that is proactive but cant be removed by opponent.
Overall meta seems fine, I still don't love the dice roll decks that are fairly prevalent but a good player will always win 70% more then he losses at low plat ranks so it doesn't really matter you'll climb easily.
So I have thoughts about the latest tier list and let's go through the decks one by one.
1. Pirates - like yeah great aggro deck but also has essentially been the same since rising tides give or take a few new tools. If you lose to this its your fault.
2. Timeliness - also a bad deck, but it can highroll so hard that you don't even get to play the game with your good deck and for that reason hits number 1 on my nerf list (equipment timeliness interaction)
3. Ezreal Kenin - lol what? Like don't get me wrong infinite card advantage Ionia is always a valid deck because it is only 1 deck but that being said I find the champ pkg here lacking as a win condition and more often you just let them die so you can draw more cards.
4. Kindred Nasus - new equipment sac cards are scary who doesn't want infinite 7/7's in a undying deck, and for one mana? Probably not nerfable unless you make the 7/7 cost 8 or something.
5. Kaisa - yeah honestly I like her she's easy to beat and is champ focused midrange eith only 1 decent win condition. Very balanced since her spell got put to slow speed.
A tier is mostly more infinite card advantage shenanigans, we have a Gwen deck which is cool, Evelyn Viego still doing their thing, Annie, Darkness, Scouts.
All good stuff, so basically I only see 1 nerf that's needed (time lines equipment) because it's less of a deck and more I get to roll 2 dice each turn and hope they combine into something broken.
Oh also deep, azir irelia, Lurk, with ekko and Kaine being solid B tier options.
One thing you can say about awakening is that it successfully shook up the play patterns and deck building requirements to such an extent I basically didn't know how to play or recognize LOR anymore.
And while I stand by the statement that some of the new additions are pretty strong as a dedicated control player, as in play and respond not just jam put card advantage till you win.
I didnt know what to do and I felt the new set was to blame, so let me share my findings on what works great if you don't want to play Ionia or Shurima, cuz I really don't:
1. 3 minimorphs feel pretty much required, Lee Sin, machine gun Aussie, Viego, all backed by 4 mana denys, so guess what burst removal can't be denied so run 3.
2. 1 mana equipment removal, I feel like silence and surpess and quietus are low key necessary as a 3 of no mater what.
3. Now you get to build the rest of your deck including pings, vengences/concerted strikes, draw, cycling creatures etc.
4. Synergy and turbo level pkg
5. Play slow play smart, generally speaking meta decks are just insane at tempo and infinite value, and turboing and just all sorts of crazy **** but once you recognize the new patters you're good here's a few examples
- snap kill monkey!
- only remove equipment that is providing additional value to the opponent appropriately judging this action takes a lot of games
- gently devalue open attack spam, this is huge for how I play control where you incentive a linear play style in the opponent that luls them into a false security that they are winning 3 dmg here or there, meanwhile they are essentially doing nothing while you for example burst level Lux or double darkness, or set up overwhelm swings etc.
- finally big take away in a 6 deny meta don't play ramp, don't play deep, these were strong picks last meta I really would not recommend right now, but lurk seems good.
So yeah back to big winstreaks in Plat one week after the expansion, my brews are doing well, but a lot of my old decks are unplayable now Awakening was a huge shift but overall a fun one, so good job Riot maybe hahaha.