Queued into a big paladin running our prismatic lens package! (oh to be at Rank 10, haha)
Started off with Northshire Cleric into Extra Arms which felt great and definitely made me want to get the other cleric in the deck
I had a terrible time drawing cards (hence more clerics!) and both Spirit of the Deads were in the bottom third of my deck...I died the turn after I played my first one :(
Initial thoughts:
Priest sucks, but thankfully priest removal doesn't suck as much as the rest of priest : - nova, + hysteria, + forbidden words, - mass dispel, 2x pyromancer
We're also missing a lot of other priest cards that don't suck : +2 northshire cleric, +2 PWS, +2 EVIL conscriptor (why are we running rat but not this??)
Cult master, shellfighter, ghoul are nice when we combo off, but comboing off requires 1 drops already shuffled then draw and also a carpet, which is 3 mana. That's too ambitious
Divine spirit combo is a good finisher, but we don't actually have many high HP/low attack things to use it on
deck looks a lot like post-vanish nerf pogo rogue shuffling 1 drops with carpets. We can learn a lot from this other deck. Like pogo rogue, this deck has few natural 1 drops but puts them into the deck to be drawn. Drawing is important, so let us draw cards : + Jepetto ... maybe more later
+2 divine hymn -2 rabble bouncer because hymn is really good with pyro cleric and we need to make space somehow
We seem to be a bit light on spells to support grave horrors but let's deal with that later
Need a finisher to kill the opponent at some point, but let's worry about that when we can get the cycle combo working
Initial thoughts:
In the 1st Matrix there's that scene where Neo and Trinity are preparing to save Morpheus and Tank asks Neo what he needs and he says, "Guns....lots of guns" in classic Keanu style. Well I feel like I need draw...lots (and lots) of draw! I mean, I was worried about draw before the game because I don't have Bwonsamdi, but it wouldn't have even mattered because I never got to the spirt card!
I don't play a lot of Priest so I enjoyed running the Divine Spirit + Inner Fire combo and wanted to keep it as a win condition. I thought there were a couple fun targets such as Rabble Bouncer, Snapjaw Shellfighter, and Omega Defender but wasn't sold on them.
I was looking forward to the Dead Ringer cycle combo, but from what you said it sounds like you'd need: 1) To play both naturally and have them die while Spirit of the Dead is on the board; and 2) Draw and play one 1/1 copy with carpet and spirit of the dead in play while the other 1/1 is in your deck. And after all that you just have infinite 2/1s with rush...
I cut the Grave Horrors because I didn't think there were enough spell activators so it was nice to hear that you actually found this not to be a big issue. However, the fact that a Grave Horror reduced to "1-cost" doesn't synergize with Carpet is really dissappointing. I know it's not unusual for Blizzard to be inconsistent, but I'm 99% sure that I've had other discounted cards count towards "1-cost" restrictions in the past (e.g. I'm almost positive that a 1-cost Corridor Creeper counted as progression towards the Hunter quest).
I also cut ghoul and cult master for the same reason you gave - I wanted cards that'd be valuable before I could pull off spirit of the dead shenanigans.
1st cuts: 2x Dead Ringer 2x EVIL Cable Rat 1x Flesheating Ghoul 2x Cult Master 1x Omega Defender 1x Holy Nova 1x Snapjaw Shellfighter (don't own) 1x Zilliax 1x Bwonsamdi, the Dead (don't own) 2x Grave Horror
The gameplan was to mulligan for Northshire Cleric and then either hit + heal to draw on Turn 2 or play PWS, Extra Arms, or EVIL Conscripter (or Wild Pyromancer if you really need tempo). If we don't hit Cleric on 1 we can drop Conscripter or Doomsayer on 2. I'm guessing Doomsayer isn't that strong atm because you don't see it outside of Mage and their freeze combo, but I'm a big fan of the card and think it's actually not too bad here. You have the standard early counter to a board that could snowball (e.g. Scavenging Hyena), but you can also use it to delay an early giant vs. Mage and survive wide boards when combo'd with Rabble Bouncer. In addition, unlike some classes, we can still make use of Doomsayer if it's silenced by playing the likes of Extra Arms and Inner Fire. We survive the mid-game through Wild Pyromancer + Acolyte of Pain, Mass Hysteria, and Convincing Infiltrator while weaving in a Spirit of the Dead if we can shuffle something like Convincing Infiltrator back into our deck. Late game is something with spirit of the dead and magic carpet...
First results:
Beat some burn shaman with hymns and horrors. Seems like horrors are fine enough with this few spells, however there doesn't seem to be enough spells to support pyromancers
"1 mana" horrors shuffled with the spirit don't work with carpet :( :( :(
Apparently a combo is kill your dead ringer with spirit on board, draw it and with carpet play 7 of these. IMO this is rarely going to happen and conspirators aren't worth cutting for this. I had spirit, carpet, ringer on the board, killed one ringer and the deathrattle doesn't even pull the copy that was shuffled in LMAO. There were no other deathrattles. Looks cool on paper but when it literally doesn't work in practice, we better just remove the entire thing
Deck still seems kinda bad. We can win vs faster decks by outvaluing and doing priest things but our finisher still sucks and the combo never works (and it doesn't kill). Carpet does nothing until spirit is drawn and used. Only one thing to do when your combo is inconsistent: add more draw!
No priest draws faster than nomi priest and as for killing people, let's try Alex and 2x lifedrinker. Need to test this out later when I have more time though
First results:
Queued against Murloc Shaman
Played Northshire Cleric T1 which got immediately silenced so I tempo'd out a Wild Pyromancer and followed up with Acolyte of Pain before healing and buffing the latter two with PWS and Extra Arms.
Even though my Spirit of the Deads were again buried in the bottom 10 cards, I was able to get to them faster while maintaining control of the board this time. In the end I just whittled him down with chip damage behind some taunts to get the win.
This build definitely drew a lot better and I had stronger plays in the early and mid-game. However, there's no finisher once you get to the spirit + carpet recycling phase and instead I used these cards simply to control the board and allow me to go face with my 5-attack Wild Pyromancer and 5-attack Acolyte of Pain. I really like your idea of adding Jepetto and will search through the other battlecry and deathrattle minions to see if we can add something impactful (e.g. recycling Elysiana or SN1P-SN4P sounds pretty fun). I also like your inclusion of Divine Hymn and will have to see if I can make room for that.
In regards to the paladin, good job thinking of putting Joybuzz in the deck. I didn't put much effort into the non-duel version because I couldn't build/test it in my collection Joybuzz is definitely a card, in both the original and your OTK version. Personally I think the OTK strays a little too far from the original concept but hey, you still made a cool deck that works which is more relevant because the OG concept might not be even possible. I have to disagree with the humilities though; when mages play an early giant, they threaten conjurer's calling on the following turn and humility doesn't help with that problem unless you already have a board. Otherwise, it seems like a good deck
I think that's a fair point about the OTK vs. the OG concept. I ended up there because it felt like you needed a really strong payoff to justify such harsh restrictions in terms spells and minions, but I think Kass would say it's not really the surgery results he had in mind. As for the Humilities, they found their way into the deck when I was looking for more 1-cost spells to make Lens discounts more consistent. I tried some of the mediocre secrets and that spell that draws a card when a minion attacks, but found better results with Humily as it could buy me a turn to finish searching for combo pieces. It was really helpful against magnetized mechs and I set up a couple lethals by copying a mech that had been Zilliaxed with a 5-cost Faceless (in games with poor draw luck I'd use Faceless early) and then dropping a Humility on their minion to wipe the floor with my big mech/clear out taunts for the Leeroy next turn. Though you're absolutely right that it's not really helpful against an early Giant + CC and you'd like to mulligan for Repentance instead.
Regarding 9 lives in the hunter deck, I was surprised how not terrible it was in the video as well after I posted my thoughts on it. Before this, I've only seen the card played in the aggro mech hunter (where it's low tempo/low value in a face deck) and in the oblivitron mech hunter (where it's low tempo/high value in a deck that's already very high value and struggles not to fall behind on board). It hasn't occurred to me to use it on sn1p-sn4p as a low tempo/high value play in a deck that's decent at keeping up on board but often lacks value (sn1p-sn4p also hasn't been printed when I last evaluated the card lol). I still think it's not that good though; even on ursatron it's 6 mana 3/3 draw 2, whereas a beast hunter can 3 mana draw 3 and have 3 mana left over to develop more than just 3/3 of stats. It also doesn't require drawing, playing and having a choice deathrattle minion die
You hit the nail on the head with the Nine Lives summary and it has often felt like a win-more card when I've played it (especially if you're trying to pull off necromechanic memes ;D ). However, I do think there's a niche fit for it as a late-game value-generator when you have a limited DR pool with strong, flexible options like in Kharan's deck (he had 1-of bloodmage thalnos, spider bomb, rotten applebaum, and mechanical whelp which I thought would be terribly inconsistent but actually played pretty well when you factored in Zul'jin recasting).
Checking out the new decks now. I already watched the warlock episode, so I'm not going to do it (it feels like cheating!). I think the final deck could use some omega agents though, especially with Barista
Haha, sounds good! I think that in just a couple weeks I've been convinced that it's better to doctor other decks, but I'll keep posting the Firebat ones because they're fun to discuss and sometimes I'm inspired to take my own crack at the archetype :)
I actually considered this deck for the 1st NFS challenge so I was happy to see it again amongst the submissions. The basic idea is to leverage the synergy between Spirit of the Dead and Magic Carpet which will be our constraint/challenge for this week. I was also intrigued by the inclusion of Flesheating Ghoul and Snapjaw Shellfighter, but they aren't part of the core soul of the deck.
Although Firebat thought he could casually mention losing with Control Warlock for 3 hours and get away with it, even he was no match for the Internet and its sick joy in watching a Former Champ get beat down by systemic imbalances among the classes ;D
As a result, this week's Firebat Selected challenge is to create a Control Warlock! We'll be using Vee Gon's submission as the starting deck so you're encouraged to give Dragon Controlock a shot first before building in other directions.
One of the things that really appeals to me with this deck is the inclusion of Faceless Rager and all the high health dragons. However, my main concern on initial inspection is whether we have enough dragons to consistently activate Firetree Witchdoctor and Wyrmguard. I think I may finally craft Brightwing for this challenge :D
I don't know about that. Regular beast hunter is more or less a control deck already, able to fatigue out warriors with dire frenzy (in that matchup, warrior is the aggressor, trying to kill you with bombs)
Unlike beast hunter, this can't run call of the wild, which is a key card. Having your hero card in a timely manner is key in any control deck and efficient draw helps with that. It also fetches your scalehides for your dire frenzys (or dire frenzied scalehides). We're sacrificing call for ... half a missile launcher package and some mediocre healing? Why not just have scalehide more consistently and heal through those? Why not clear through buffed lynx and rhinos? They are not so bad
All things considered, I suspect this deck might be worse at controling as hunter than beast hunter
I've tried to make many a Control Hunter work and my experience is reflective of your fears. There are a lot of possible builds, but you almost always throw up your hands and admit that standard midrange Hunter is just better/more consistent. Master's Call is a lot of value to give up along with things like Animal Companion, Timber Wolf, Tundra Rhino, and Kill Command. So you want some powerful cards to justify moving away from all beasts and the problem with hybrid decks is that they are usually forced into a tradeoff between playing only the strongest from different packages and increasing the consistency of their deck through weaker but more flexible cards. Overall, I think I like Kharan's Chaos Control build from a couple seasons ago a little better.
In any case, I don't have Zul'jin, so I can't test it out, but if I were to make changes without turning it into beast hunter...
Thalnos isn't convenient with marked shot and while arcane shot + Thalnos is nice vs rogue, it has little targets outside of rogue, and arcane shot without Thalnos doesn't line up well in the current meta (mages aren't tempoing out their key cards against a hunter). The 1 mana deal 1 twinspell is a consideration, but like I said dealing 2 isn't good in the meta. Wing blast is also a consideration, but we're not good a killing 1 thing to activate
Agree that Thalnos feels a bit out of place. I really don't want to have to rely on it for card draw via Nine Lives and there's no space to add the twin spell + Wild Pyromancer for more synergies. Think I'd replace it with 1x Timber Wolf and 2x Headhunter's Hatchet.
Missile launcher + venomizer should be 2 ofs (either that or 0 ofs because consistency). We're sacrificing a lot for them, so we better make use of them
Nine lives looks very mediocre because we're not running deathrattles worth 3 mana. Maybe cut 9 lives, or replace deadly shots and hunter's mark with spider bombs?
Dump applebaum because it's weak and we already have healing
I just played a game with the deck and found that Nine Lives was actually the highlight. In particular, Nine Lives + SN1P-SN4P won me the game. However, it also feels like Nine Lives + Ursatron is meant to be your method for drawing out the 1-of Missle Launcher + Venomizer combo which makes things awkward. This wouldn't be so bad if we could rely on Zul'jin to fill in the gaps, but we currently run too many deathrattles to rely on what Zul'jin will choose. If we cut Thalnos and Applebaum that leaves Shimmerfly, Ursatron, and SN1P SN4P in the DR pool which isn't too bad (I'm a little afraid to cut Shimmerfly based on our early game options, especially if we include Headhunter's Hatchet).
Add houndmaster shaw because he's OP
Animal companion and secret plan are good cards with the hero that I'd love to run, but can't find space for
Honestly, Houndmaster Shaw is often the card that makes me hesitate on building around Master's Call so if we're not going that route I'd love to include him. Also really like animal companion when running Zul'jin to increase your chances of a Dire Frenzy target.
This is all assuming missile launcher + venomizer combo isn't too slow (it's 8 mana!). The strength of the combo in mech hunter comes from the fact that you can set it up preemptively by magnetizing half the combo on a sticky mech or discounting them with galvinizer
If the above is the case, maybe this mech/beast hybrid concept is better as a faster tempo deck rather than a control/value deck
Agree that you often want to run Galvanizer to pull off the Missle Launcher combo and I feel like that card is a must in a Hybrid Hunter because we can discount Nightmare Amalgams who can also be buffed by Dire Frenzy and magnetized with Zilliax or SN1P SN4P. Would really want to get Amalgam in this deck.
Edit: watching the video now and holy shit, I knew controlock was bad but I didn't know it was that bad!
Haha, I was definitely struck by this comment as well! I was thinking of trying to find the Control Warlock submission he attempted to make that our NFS challenge for the week, but it looks like he gave it go in the new video based on popular demand!
Just had a chance to test out this deck and included some reactions above
I replaced Tirion in the original deck with Jepetto Joybuzz because I don't have Tirion and thought the Jepetto discount would help pull off the Mountseller combo. This combo didn't feel quite strong enough to justify the deck building restriction but Jepetto felt great.
My initial reactions were to build around Jepetto + Alexstrasza or Jepetto + Mecha'thun. Started with Mecha'thun and found some success using a card draw engine centered around Crystology and discounted Gadgetzan Auctioneers and then a stall engine of 2x Time Out!.
The Mecha'thun strategy started to fall apart once I realized that I was completely dependent on Jepetto discounting Mecha'thun so I needed to run a Baleful Banker in case I drew the big guy too early, but then also 2x Galvanizer so I could play them on the same turn. The other problem occured when Prismatic Lens would pull Jepetto because a spell would then cost 8 and you couldn't play it on the same turn that you played Time Out! which you usually had to do at the end of the game to empty your hand of useless spells.
I took some of the things that worked from the Mecha'thun deck (Crystology, Secretkeeper, Jepetto, etc.) and included them in an Alexstrasza build with the classic Leeroy + Faceless package. Here's the brief the description of the deck I included in the write-up:
My best performing Prismatic Lens deck was this Leeroy Jenkins OTK centered arounding discounting Leeroy via Lens and then discounting Faceless Manipulator via Lens and/or Jepetto Joybuzz. You then buff Leeroy with Blessing of Might before copying with Faceless. Alternatively, you can draw Alexstrasza from Lens or Jepetto to reduce the amount of Leeroy damage you need.
Early game involves searching hard for Crystology so you can play Secretkeeper + secrets early to control the board. Crystology can also draw Novice Engineer which keeps your deck churning and you can use the 1-of Call to Adventure to fish for these cards as well so that your Prismatic Lens and Jepetto hit the big boys.
Although this deck is built around a Leeroy finisher, sometimes you'll have to shift to a TTK strategy instead of an OTK; for example, by saving a charge from Truesilver Champion or playing Time Out! + Truesilver Champion to set up for lethal the following turn. The real fun part of this deck comes in thinking up creative lethals depending on what gets discounted each game. For example, in this game I drew both Faceless Manipulators via Prismatic Lens so I used Call to Adventure to draw a guaranteed Leeroy and then played a 5-cost buffed Leeroy (8/4) + a 1-cost Blessing of Might (11/4) + two 1-cost Manipulators for a true OTK. However, in this game I drew Leeroy and Gadgetzan early so I used Jepetto to drawn both Faceless and then saved a weapon charge to reach lethal.
Got Jepetto from Lens and got a 1/1 mountseller for 1
Played mountseller and a bunch of cheap spells for a full board....mage counters with khadgar + giant + CC...a slightly better wide board, GG
Initial changes:
Deck is has quite a few small minions (and not even vital ones) which leads me to believe prismatic lens might not be the main focus of the deck. On the other hand "mountseller paladin" isn't a defining enough theme to build around by itself, so I'm just going to go with the lens theme. Filling the board with a mountseller isn't very good anyway; those boards are answered by the same things that answer a mage's giant board, and those are popular right now. Removed mountseller.
I thought your mountseller observation here was just excellent and it was something I hadn't considered when selecting the deck. Really great deckbuilding insight that I'm going to try to be more mindful of when building and selecting decks! :)
Removed Sea Giants because the deck doesn't go wide
Agreed, I didn't find this card strong enough (to warrant the deck restrictions) even with a Prismatic Lens discount
Far too many secrets in the deck. Some of them have negative synergy with one another. Removed a bunch of them. Added Repentance because mage. Removed Sunreaver Spy because those don't even see play in normal secret paladin. Also messes with the lens. Bellringer dudes stay because they're decent and draw cards
I was also surprised at some of the secret inclusions as well as the exclusions. I liked the idea of including an early minion that had secret synergy, but I wanted a way to draw them early and ended up with Secretkeeper + Crystology in my final version. I'd never played with the Bellringer dude before and agree that the card felt pretty decent/strong.
Added Duel! as an experiment... we're playing big minions anyway. May as well double dip the same build-around restrictions. Hopefully I don't run into many mages lol
I really like Shrink Ray but I ended up going the OTK route and had to keep the spells small in my build. Love that you tried making Duel! work and that highlights one of things I loved about the old deckbuilding challenges on HP.
This deck has little early development options and is extremely inconsistent in the early game. Blessing of might and ring the bells goes in decks that have board consistently. Since making the early game consistent is impossible with the lens synergy, I've removed the buffs. Put blessing of might back because of synergy with Zilliax, royal guards and eggs
I don't have Kangor's or Shirvallah, but all of those inclusions make a lot of sense.
Result
This is something that can output constant, sticky, threatening boards in the lategame but I'm still having a lot of issues surviving to that point. Paladin spells really suck as control tools without small minions like wild pyromancer in the mix. Paladin isn't warrior or priest, whose spells are good enough to keep you alive without the help of minions ... nor is it hunter or druid, who can summon minions through spells
Duel! is pretty cool, but it turns out it's not so good because literally everyone is better at cleaning up a single big thing than you. Robosaur highrolls are getting cleaned up without much consequence but I'm stuck dealing with anything that doesn't die to a duel
I've added too many big spells to get the lens highroll off consistently. Having no answer to giants in the current meta sounds like a bad idea though. I don't know how to slim down the spells without making the deck worse against such things and aggro
Think you hit the nail on the head regarding the problems with this type of deck strategy and what makes cards like Duel! (or say Hecklebot) effective. I also agree that Giants are a big problem and I ended up including Humility to stall until I could draw my combo pieces, but I don't think it'd be great in a non-OTK deck.
Moving forward
removing duels enable us to play things that would suck to get from lens, but won't lose us the game if dueled
-duel!; +wild pyromancers, +equality
Could revamp the big things package with cards like big bad archmage and ysera instead of mechs or oondasta and bears
Unfortunately, I don't have equalities. RIP
Big Bad Archmage is one of those cards I've been tempted to craft in the past for just such an occassion :D Really great job with your analysis!
Hey NightCrawler, sorry for the lengthy delay. I was away on holiday for a good bit and fell behind on all things HS. But I'm getting in some games this weekend and will be updating this thread a few times (including the two new challenges). I've written responses to the Prismatic Mountseller deck above and will upload the deck I settled on next.
Oh man, that was a great post and I'll write a proper response once I do a little more testing tonight (went down a Prismatic Mecha'thun hole last night which was fun but not too promising).
However, I saw that the next episode of DD was posted so I wanted to get the weekly Firebat-Selected (FS) deck uploaded while it's fresh!
Challenge #3 - Hybrid Hunter (FS) -
Apparently Firebat got some grief for making a "meta" deck last week by picking Control Shaman, so this week he hopes to appease the meme gods with a Control Hunter operation :D The deck was submitted by Bored Certified who sought to create a mech/beast hybrid that generates a lot of "created by" value.
As a result, this week's FS challenge is to create a Hybrid Hunter! You're encouraged to explore mech/beast synergies at first, but if you think murlocs, dragons, or some other hybrid would be stronger then go for it!
At first glance this deck appears to follow the reasonable strategy of combining small packages of strong cards from different existing archetypes. There's a small beast pacakge to contest early boards, a mech package for the midgame which enables card draw, healing, and board clears, and then a strong spell package for the late game in the form of nine lives, dire frenzy, unleash the beast, and Zul'jin. You also have a Bloodmage Thalnos + Arcane Shot combo for some unexpected finishing damage...and there's a Countess Ashmore for its synergy with both the mech and beast packages.
The deck aims to highroll matches through Prismatic Lens and a limited minion pool. My guess is you mulligan for the minions under 7-cost + Prismatic Lens and play only the secrets you need to control the board/activate your minions. Playing Exotic Mountseller for 1 on Turn 5 followed by four 1-cost spells sounds like a lot of fun :)
So this week's challenge is to build a deck that utilizes the synergy between Prismatic Lens + cheap spells + big minions (i.e. I'm claiming this is the soul of the deck). You don't have to stick with Mountseller or the Secret package, but you are encouraged to play at least 1 game with the original deck, as is the Firebat tradition.
Hey NightCrawler; nice to see you over here and thanks for the feedback!
I had concerns that people wouldn't find it fun if they typically watch the video as soon as it's posted each week, but I wasn't sure how many people this would apply to. However, you raise a different concern about not enjoying it even if you tested out your changes before watching the video which I hadn't thought about before.
My guess is that our different reactions come from a difference in deckbuilding skill. For example, I'm not a great deckbuilder/player, so I actually view it as a positive that there's an "answer key" each week in the sense that I can watch Firebat's reasoning after making my changes and then update my beliefs about how to build that type of deck accordingly. However, I can see how more experienced folks may find this boring as they'll probably land on the "correct" answer through trial-and-error testing anyway. The other nice thing about not picking Firebat's selection is that nobody can make an appeal to authority and claim that their build is better (sans statistics) simply because it's closer to Firebat's (which could encourage more debate/voting on the best builds).
The only counterpoints I can think of are that we're not limited to Standard like Firebat (though most of us will constrain ourselves to that format anyway so this isn't a strong argument) and even within Standard you sometimes see disagreement in the YT comments about Firebat's choices (that he didn't appreciate/recognize certain synergies and therefore cut "bad cards" too quickly, ended up changing the soul of the deck, etc.). I guess a related counterpoint would be that the best build for Firebat to pilot may not necessarily be the best build for everyone else to pilot depending on your knowledge of the game/meta, comfort piloting the archetype, etc. (kind of like the argument the omni folks make that Cyclone Mage is the best deck when piloted by the best players, but often not the best choice for those of us in the lower ranks if we're not going to really study how to navigate it and gain a lot of XP).
This was a long way of saying that I think you raise a good point! So how about a comprise where there are 2 weekly competitions - 1 based on the deck Firebat edits and 1 based on another submission? We could also expand the alternate deck to one submitted on Twitter OR 1 posted in the forums on OOC (if someone's looking for help on their deck). If anyone's interested in picking out the alternate selection each week just say the word! (I'll fill in on the weeks where nobody offers up a deck...let's see how long it takes to detect my Control Hunter bias ;P )
Update 1: Ended last night on a win streak at 12 and 1 star and have kept it going so far (10 and 1 star atm). This is definitely not the strongest version of Control Shaman, but it's a ton of fun if you like generating value and adapting your gameplan around that value each match. (P.S. Please excuse the n00b win total, haha...I told ya I don't play a lot of ladder didn't I ;D )
(sorry, can't figure out how to embed a pic from imgur here...links above)
+1 Zap! - synergy with Thunderhead; draws Earth Shock when played with the frog
+2 Doomsayer - anti-aggro; benefits from the ability to roll a taunt totem on Turn 4; synergizes with low tempo plays such as EVIL Cable Rat on T4 and Swampqueen Hagatha on T9; at the very least can generate some value if you draw it late and have played the Hagatha DK
+2 EVIL Cable Rat - lackey generation and lackey battlecries are really fun with Shudderwock; the transforming lackey works great with Giggling Inventor or Shudderwock; the 1/1s generate spells after you play the Hagatha DK; and the 1/1s also feed Witch's Cauldron and serve as targets for spells like blood lust and the storm bringer
+1 SN1P-SN4P - synergizes with Zilliax and Giggling Inventor; the 1/1s can feed your cauldron; playing the 2/3s as separate bodies generates great value after you play the Hagatha DK
+1 Witch's Cauldron - I simply love playing with this card and there are a lot of tokens to generate value in this deck. The other benefit of only running 1 Spirit of the Frog is that you can run fewer spells and still reap value which means you can run fewer/better spells.
+1 Thunderhead - great stat line; synergizes with Zap!, Sludge Slurper, and Witch's Cauldron; plenty of potential to draw more overload spells through witch's cauldron, haunting visions, the spell generating lackey, and hagatha DK
-1 Totemic Smash - liked Zap! better -1 Ancestral Spirit - liked getting valuefrom witch's cauldron -2 Lightning Storm - replaced with doomsayers because I wanted more 2-drops, minions in general are more valuable in Hagatha DK decks in case you draw them late; cutting a spell creates more consistency from the Frog in the 3-cost spot; and I've just never liked overloading for that much on T3 -1 Zentimo - don't own, tried replacing with Vargoth initially, ended up with SN1P-SN4P because he's OP -1 BGH - thunderhead replaced him to deal with wide boards (have 2 Hexes and the Earth Shock for big boys) -1 Unseen Saboteur - tried out Hecklebot with some success, but ended up cutting for an early-game minion in the form of cable rat -1 Walking Fountain - great card but didn't feel the need for 2 without ancestral spirit; cut for another cable rat
I haven't played any ladder this month (and don't play much ranked in general), but I had a lot of fun going from 15 - 12 tonight. The deck felt strong/had a high win rate, but it was a super small sample and I faced mainly control match-ups.
We'll start things off with last week's episode featuring Slysssa's "Fun Shaman." This is a Shudderwock Shaman that leverages Spirit of the Frog and a bunch of battlecries to control the board while you chip away and shuffle bombs into your opponent's deck.
"The question in each and every thing, 'Do you want this again and innumerable times again?'..." - Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, 1882
Hi everyone,
The "specter of infinite monotony" threatens many of life's pleasures and sadly Hearthstone is no exception. So why not spice up your HS experience with a new deck to master/improve every week on your journey to legend?!
The game is simple, each week someone (likely me) will post the deck picked by Firebat for his YouTube show Deck Doctor. Your job will be to take Firebat's place!
Copy the original list and take it for a test drive on ladder.
Leave comments on your reactions to the deck here!
Make changes to the list and try, try, try again.
Only constraint is to preserve the soul of the original deck.
Although Firebat limits his changes to Standard, feel free to take your build in a Wild direction :)
Upload your favorite version of your list here and tell us about your experience!
If there's interest, we could even hold a weekly competition to see who can climb the highest in both Standard and Wild with screenshots/replays uploaded and a leaderboard and all that jazz.
We could also expand the game so that people submit their own decks to be doctored by the OOC community! (slowly morphing the thread into the deckbuilding challenge of old...and then my plan will be complete, muahahah ;D )
OK, enough of this small talk; doctor, you're needed in the OR, Stat!
Just wanted to give a shout-out to Doomsayer in this Tavern Brawl...played a Control Hunter meme and found the board clears on your first turn to be pretty spicy alongside some deathrattles.
I'll start by sharing some of my old favorites! However, I warn ya that these will be a little dated and it looks like a lot of my old favorites have been deleted from YouTube by now :(
Obviously there are going to be spoilers...
Clip and Song Synergies:
ASMVs:
Here's one the follows the background music rule I mentioned earlier (and there are a ton more One Piece ones like this if anyone's interested)
But here's another One Piece one that I'd argue fits the ASMV category because it tells the story arc of the characters through editing, but there is a song with lyrics to match:
Anyone else take guilty pleasure in watching (or making!) Animated Music Videos (AMVs)?? I thought so :D Let's share!
Poll Question: What are your favorite types of AMVs? (can choose more than one)
When you love the song! Having the song sync well with the video is nice, but even if there's only a loose connection to the lyrics/meaning of the song you'll dig it because you're looking for particular tunes.
When you love the clips! Having the video include seminal moments from one show (e.g. specific fight scenes) or numerous shows (e.g. OP female characters) is essential and then you look for best musical fit, even if the lyrics only match up superficially if at all.
When the editing is really awesome and they make shows seem even better than they actually are - music and shows included are not really important.
Kinda related to the previous one but, when they tell a story through editing and the music plays secondary significance (sometimes called Animated Story Music Videos (ASMVs)). Often(?) there's only a non-vocal (though inspiring) background track which is what I think separates it from the previous jawn.
When the clips capture a deeper meaning or a truer sentiment of the song than the lyrics alone - there's a synergy (i.e. interaction) between music, clips, and editing.
I'm sure there are tons of other reasons so please share yours below! And post any fun stories such as shows you started watching because of an AMV or songs you became a fan of because of an AMV :)
And of course, please share your favorite examples!!
So today I was doing the random deckbuilding challenge and I ended up landing on Exotic Mountseller. While yes, I ended up building a deck that included two copies of her, I never really felt like the card did anything too useful in it.
Has anyone found her a home anywhere?
It definitely doesn't work as well in Hunter, but maybe there's a way to fit it in the current Secret shell as an alternate late-game option before you Zul'jin?
Personally, I've been having a lot of fun meming it up in Casual with a Mountseller + Arcane Fletcher deck. While I uploaded the deck in maximal meme form, the write-up suggests a couple tweaks for making it more competitive (e.g. sub one Toxmonger for a Dire Frenzy). However, I don't think any version will be stronger than the decks suggested previously...
Just wanted to add a little more to what others have said:
I feel like Rat Pack might synergize well as a 1-of in a token style of deck. What I was thinking is that when you hit it with Dire Frenzy on Turn 7 it's like Violet Wurm but a turn earlier (though for 2 cards).
I could also see Flark's Boom-Zooka being fun with Silver Vanguard and Violet Wurm in the deck, but fitting it in would probably require a number of changes.
And then if you switch up the deck in a more traditional direction there's always old faithfuls like highrolling Devilsaur Egg, combo'n cards w/Spiritsinger Umbra, and ruining someone's day with Carnivorous Cube + Play Dead ;P
If you're interested in playing a Big Hunter in Standard, I recently uploaded a Boom-Zooka deck you might enjoy. While it focuses on big beasts, I have another version that swaps them out for a deathrattle package centered around Mechanical Whelp, Oblivitron, and Nine Lives (and then subs out the beast card draw and dire frenzy for [Hearthstone Card (Ursatron[Hearthstone Card (s and another Tracking).
Sorry for the delay! I don't have any data yet, but I did sit down and theorycraft a little something for Wild :)
Discover may be my favorite mechanic (love getting more decision points + a way to adapt your strategy on the fly) so this deck features our boy Bloodscalp along with his friends Netherspite Historian and Firetree Witchdoctor :D
The deck is definitely rough in a few areas, but let me know what you think!
Challenge #5 - Magic Recycling Priest (NFS) -
This week's non-Firebat selection is 13thology's Recycle Priest!
I actually considered this deck for the 1st NFS challenge so I was happy to see it again amongst the submissions. The basic idea is to leverage the synergy between Spirit of the Dead and Magic Carpet which will be our constraint/challenge for this week. I was also intrigued by the inclusion of Flesheating Ghoul and Snapjaw Shellfighter, but they aren't part of the core soul of the deck.
Challenge #4 - Control Warlock (FS) -
Although Firebat thought he could casually mention losing with Control Warlock for 3 hours and get away with it, even he was no match for the Internet and its sick joy in watching a Former Champ get beat down by systemic imbalances among the classes ;D
As a result, this week's Firebat Selected challenge is to create a Control Warlock! We'll be using Vee Gon's submission as the starting deck so you're encouraged to give Dragon Controlock a shot first before building in other directions.
The deck has some early anti-aggro tools in the way of Voidcaller, Shadow Bolt, and Hellfire, but what it'd really like to do is play as a Handlock early to cheat out Mountain Giant and/or buff Twilight Drake.
One of the things that really appeals to me with this deck is the inclusion of Faceless Rager and all the high health dragons. However, my main concern on initial inspection is whether we have enough dragons to consistently activate Firetree Witchdoctor and Wyrmguard. I think I may finally craft Brightwing for this challenge :D
Just had a chance to test out this deck and included some reactions above
Here's the OTK Pally I ended up liking the most from Challenge #2:
My best performing Prismatic Lens deck was this Leeroy Jenkins OTK centered arounding discounting Leeroy via Lens and then discounting Faceless Manipulator via Lens and/or Jepetto Joybuzz. You then buff Leeroy with Blessing of Might before copying with Faceless. Alternatively, you can draw Alexstrasza from Lens or Jepetto to reduce the amount of Leeroy damage you need.
Early game involves searching hard for Crystology so you can play Secretkeeper + secrets early to control the board. Crystology can also draw Novice Engineer which keeps your deck churning and you can use the 1-of Call to Adventure to fish for these cards as well so that your Prismatic Lens and Jepetto hit the big boys.
Although this deck is built around a Leeroy finisher, sometimes you'll have to shift to a TTK strategy instead of an OTK; for example, by saving a charge from Truesilver Champion or playing Time Out! + Truesilver Champion to set up for lethal the following turn. The real fun part of this deck comes in thinking up creative lethals depending on what gets discounted each game. For example, in this game I drew both Faceless Manipulators via Prismatic Lens so I used Call to Adventure to draw a guaranteed Leeroy and then played a 5-cost buffed Leeroy (8/4) + a 1-cost Blessing of Might (11/4) + two 1-cost Manipulators for a true OTK. However, in this game I drew Leeroy and Gadgetzan early so I used Jepetto to drawn both Faceless and then saved a weapon charge to reach lethal.
Hey NightCrawler, sorry for the lengthy delay. I was away on holiday for a good bit and fell behind on all things HS. But I'm getting in some games this weekend and will be updating this thread a few times (including the two new challenges). I've written responses to the Prismatic Mountseller deck above and will upload the deck I settled on next.
Oh man, that was a great post and I'll write a proper response once I do a little more testing tonight (went down a Prismatic Mecha'thun hole last night which was fun but not too promising).
However, I saw that the next episode of DD was posted so I wanted to get the weekly Firebat-Selected (FS) deck uploaded while it's fresh!
Challenge #3 - Hybrid Hunter (FS) -
Apparently Firebat got some grief for making a "meta" deck last week by picking Control Shaman, so this week he hopes to appease the meme gods with a Control Hunter operation :D The deck was submitted by Bored Certified who sought to create a mech/beast hybrid that generates a lot of "created by" value.
As a result, this week's FS challenge is to create a Hybrid Hunter! You're encouraged to explore mech/beast synergies at first, but if you think murlocs, dragons, or some other hybrid would be stronger then go for it!
At first glance this deck appears to follow the reasonable strategy of combining small packages of strong cards from different existing archetypes. There's a small beast pacakge to contest early boards, a mech package for the midgame which enables card draw, healing, and board clears, and then a strong spell package for the late game in the form of nine lives, dire frenzy, unleash the beast, and Zul'jin. You also have a Bloodmage Thalnos + Arcane Shot combo for some unexpected finishing damage...and there's a Countess Ashmore for its synergy with both the mech and beast packages.
In the spirit of Nightcrawler's suggestion, here's a likely Non-Firebat Selection (NFS) from the most recent twitter post:
Challenge #2 (NFS)
This week's NFS pick is Kass's Mountseller Paladin!
The deck aims to highroll matches through Prismatic Lens and a limited minion pool. My guess is you mulligan for the minions under 7-cost + Prismatic Lens and play only the secrets you need to control the board/activate your minions. Playing Exotic Mountseller for 1 on Turn 5 followed by four 1-cost spells sounds like a lot of fun :)
So this week's challenge is to build a deck that utilizes the synergy between Prismatic Lens + cheap spells + big minions (i.e. I'm claiming this is the soul of the deck). You don't have to stick with Mountseller or the Secret package, but you are encouraged to play at least 1 game with the original deck, as is the Firebat tradition.
Now get out there and build, build, build!
Hey NightCrawler; nice to see you over here and thanks for the feedback!
I had concerns that people wouldn't find it fun if they typically watch the video as soon as it's posted each week, but I wasn't sure how many people this would apply to. However, you raise a different concern about not enjoying it even if you tested out your changes before watching the video which I hadn't thought about before.
My guess is that our different reactions come from a difference in deckbuilding skill. For example, I'm not a great deckbuilder/player, so I actually view it as a positive that there's an "answer key" each week in the sense that I can watch Firebat's reasoning after making my changes and then update my beliefs about how to build that type of deck accordingly. However, I can see how more experienced folks may find this boring as they'll probably land on the "correct" answer through trial-and-error testing anyway. The other nice thing about not picking Firebat's selection is that nobody can make an appeal to authority and claim that their build is better (sans statistics) simply because it's closer to Firebat's (which could encourage more debate/voting on the best builds).
The only counterpoints I can think of are that we're not limited to Standard like Firebat (though most of us will constrain ourselves to that format anyway so this isn't a strong argument) and even within Standard you sometimes see disagreement in the YT comments about Firebat's choices (that he didn't appreciate/recognize certain synergies and therefore cut "bad cards" too quickly, ended up changing the soul of the deck, etc.). I guess a related counterpoint would be that the best build for Firebat to pilot may not necessarily be the best build for everyone else to pilot depending on your knowledge of the game/meta, comfort piloting the archetype, etc. (kind of like the argument the omni folks make that Cyclone Mage is the best deck when piloted by the best players, but often not the best choice for those of us in the lower ranks if we're not going to really study how to navigate it and gain a lot of XP).
This was a long way of saying that I think you raise a good point! So how about a comprise where there are 2 weekly competitions - 1 based on the deck Firebat edits and 1 based on another submission? We could also expand the alternate deck to one submitted on Twitter OR 1 posted in the forums on OOC (if someone's looking for help on their deck). If anyone's interested in picking out the alternate selection each week just say the word! (I'll fill in on the weeks where nobody offers up a deck...let's see how long it takes to detect my Control Hunter bias ;P )
Update 1: Ended last night on a win streak at 12 and 1 star and have kept it going so far (10 and 1 star atm). This is definitely not the strongest version of Control Shaman, but it's a ton of fun if you like generating value and adapting your gameplan around that value each match. (P.S. Please excuse the n00b win total, haha...I told ya I don't play a lot of ladder didn't I ;D )
Here's the list I tested out this evening.:
Changes and rationale:
+1 Zap! - synergy with Thunderhead; draws Earth Shock when played with the frog
+2 Doomsayer - anti-aggro; benefits from the ability to roll a taunt totem on Turn 4; synergizes with low tempo plays such as EVIL Cable Rat on T4 and Swampqueen Hagatha on T9; at the very least can generate some value if you draw it late and have played the Hagatha DK
+2 EVIL Cable Rat - lackey generation and lackey battlecries are really fun with Shudderwock; the transforming lackey works great with Giggling Inventor or Shudderwock; the 1/1s generate spells after you play the Hagatha DK; and the 1/1s also feed Witch's Cauldron and serve as targets for spells like blood lust and the storm bringer
+1 SN1P-SN4P - synergizes with Zilliax and Giggling Inventor; the 1/1s can feed your cauldron; playing the 2/3s as separate bodies generates great value after you play the Hagatha DK
+1 Witch's Cauldron - I simply love playing with this card and there are a lot of tokens to generate value in this deck. The other benefit of only running 1 Spirit of the Frog is that you can run fewer spells and still reap value which means you can run fewer/better spells.
+1 Thunderhead - great stat line; synergizes with Zap!, Sludge Slurper, and Witch's Cauldron; plenty of potential to draw more overload spells through witch's cauldron, haunting visions, the spell generating lackey, and hagatha DK
-1 Totemic Smash - liked Zap! better
-1 Ancestral Spirit - liked getting valuefrom witch's cauldron
-2 Lightning Storm - replaced with doomsayers because I wanted more 2-drops, minions in general are more valuable in Hagatha DK decks in case you draw them late; cutting a spell creates more consistency from the Frog in the 3-cost spot; and I've just never liked overloading for that much on T3
-1 Zentimo - don't own, tried replacing with Vargoth initially, ended up with SN1P-SN4P because he's OP
-1 BGH - thunderhead replaced him to deal with wide boards (have 2 Hexes and the Earth Shock for big boys)
-1 Unseen Saboteur - tried out Hecklebot with some success, but ended up cutting for an early-game minion in the form of cable rat
-1 Walking Fountain - great card but didn't feel the need for 2 without ancestral spirit; cut for another cable rat
I haven't played any ladder this month (and don't play much ranked in general), but I had a lot of fun going from 15 - 12 tonight. The deck felt strong/had a high win rate, but it was a super small sample and I faced mainly control match-ups.
Challenge #1
We'll start things off with last week's episode featuring Slysssa's "Fun Shaman." This is a Shudderwock Shaman that leverages Spirit of the Frog and a bunch of battlecries to control the board while you chip away and shuffle bombs into your opponent's deck.
Once we have a spoilers feature I'll include the alterations Firebat made in his final version, but to avoid bias I'll hold off for now.
"The question in each and every thing, 'Do you want this again and innumerable times again?'..."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, 1882
Hi everyone,
The "specter of infinite monotony" threatens many of life's pleasures and sadly Hearthstone is no exception. So why not spice up your HS experience with a new deck to master/improve every week on your journey to legend?!
The game is simple, each week someone (likely me) will post the deck picked by Firebat for his YouTube show Deck Doctor. Your job will be to take Firebat's place!
If there's interest, we could even hold a weekly competition to see who can climb the highest in both Standard and Wild with screenshots/replays uploaded and a leaderboard and all that jazz.
We could also expand the game so that people submit their own decks to be doctored by the OOC community! (slowly morphing the thread into the deckbuilding challenge of old...and then my plan will be complete, muahahah ;D )
OK, enough of this small talk; doctor, you're needed in the OR, Stat!
Just wanted to give a shout-out to Doomsayer in this Tavern Brawl...played a Control Hunter meme and found the board clears on your first turn to be pretty spicy alongside some deathrattles.
I'll start by sharing some of my old favorites! However, I warn ya that these will be a little dated and it looks like a lot of my old favorites have been deleted from YouTube by now :(
Obviously there are going to be spoilers...
Clip and Song Synergies:
ASMVs:
Here's one the follows the background music rule I mentioned earlier (and there are a ton more One Piece ones like this if anyone's interested)
But here's another One Piece one that I'd argue fits the ASMV category because it tells the story arc of the characters through editing, but there is a song with lyrics to match:
Came for the Song:
Came for the Show:
Watched the show after seeing the AMV:
Downloaded the song after seeing the AMV:
Anyone else take guilty pleasure in watching (or making!) Animated Music Videos (AMVs)?? I thought so :D Let's share!
Poll Question: What are your favorite types of AMVs? (can choose more than one)
I'm sure there are tons of other reasons so please share yours below! And post any fun stories such as shows you started watching because of an AMV or songs you became a fan of because of an AMV :)
And of course, please share your favorite examples!!
It definitely doesn't work as well in Hunter, but maybe there's a way to fit it in the current Secret shell as an alternate late-game option before you Zul'jin?
Personally, I've been having a lot of fun meming it up in Casual with a Mountseller + Arcane Fletcher deck. While I uploaded the deck in maximal meme form, the write-up suggests a couple tweaks for making it more competitive (e.g. sub one Toxmonger for a Dire Frenzy). However, I don't think any version will be stronger than the decks suggested previously...
Welcome home!
Just wanted to add a little more to what others have said:
If you're interested in playing a Big Hunter in Standard, I recently uploaded a Boom-Zooka deck you might enjoy. While it focuses on big beasts, I have another version that swaps them out for a deathrattle package centered around Mechanical Whelp, Oblivitron, and Nine Lives (and then subs out the beast card draw and dire frenzy for [Hearthstone Card (Ursatron[Hearthstone Card (s and another Tracking).
Sorry for the delay! I don't have any data yet, but I did sit down and theorycraft a little something for Wild :)
Discover may be my favorite mechanic (love getting more decision points + a way to adapt your strategy on the fly) so this deck features our boy Bloodscalp along with his friends Netherspite Historian and Firetree Witchdoctor :D
The deck is definitely rough in a few areas, but let me know what you think!