as far as i know some yordles got play effects. Hitting those is terrible and for those who have summon effects this is this 2 cards for 1 unit at burst speed.
I doubt this will make it into deck not even in limited
Spells always target the current instance of a unit. By the unit leaving play in any way before resolving the spell the spell loses it's target and fizzles.
In mtg we have a comparable, more widely used mechanic called flicker. It does obliterate a unit to summon the unit again which in mtg means all instances targeting the creature before fizzling.
In LoR exactly the same thing is happing: if a unit leaves the battlefield before your spell resolves, your spell's targeted effect is gone
How about you stop always creating new posts for the same topic?
Just name a posts Nifty's metatalk and continue it.
The consistant flood of "new" topics is just annoying imo.
Edit: lets make an gentlemen agreement that if nifty creates another post of this kind we remain on one of his older posts on this topic? He eventually stops with that behavior then
I agree knowing your enemy is something very useful in LoR
If i wouldn't know that the removal of the current meta decks was very mediocre I couldn't confidently pick riven vi stack my units to 10 power and stomp my enemies.
That said I still like the more casual attitude of Bingo. Playing for fun certainly is a good thing to do on LoR
I however witnessed that players in gold doesn't seem to care about tier lists otherwise i would not see covina control being the most played archetype (which is kinda bad for a deck filled with 1 health units )
And if you take a look at what archetypes don't care about champions it all are aggro decks
It should not surprise anyone that champions who by design aren't supposed to instantly level up won't be played for their level 2 in those lists.
So it's not because champions being weak but decks aiming for faster endings that building around champions is maybe less a thing than in the early days of LoR
"Synergy is dead, deck building is dead, Champs are dead, strategy is dead."
Alright who told you that nonsens? Champions ARE still meaningful. Champions ARE better than their follower cards by a lot.
Champions no longer go unanswered and if that is something that bothers you you better go complain about HushMinimorphVengeance and the likes of them which are the reasons why the role of champions changed.
And a good example of deck building not being dead is the latest Hextech Handler swarm deck. I mean yeah it's kinda silly to play against and it's kinda broken but it's a quite unique build that hasn't been seen in the past (as far as I know)
We need highrolls in the game to keep it relevant? I don't see how this was ever necessary for a good game?
Consistantcy was always a key feature of good decks which is why boat effects were introduced.
There is nothing wrong with putting power budget into champions but with an overall increasing powerlevel and an increasing quality of spot removal playing around single champions is not supposed to be a key to success anymore.
Champion designes like Zoe are the new way to go for champions: rather cheap units that generate value and which resemles a viable lvl 2 win condition which doesn't care if the unit dies right after level up.
Lee Sin is a huge outlier in the championpool and kinda the last champion to be hyperresilient to removal.
There is no good reason why a 5 mana champion should be an outlier in this regard. I could see him doing what he does on 7+ mana since greater costs comes with greater tolerance for an acceptable powerlevel (looking at unnerfed Sion)
I kinda can agree that Twisted Fate wasn't too opressive toward any specific strategy. The "problem" with him is his jack of all trades nature that turns him into a strong champion no matter what the matchup is. I could see reverting the nerf to his level up condition while keeping Pick a Card as it is.
Fiora however really needs a rework: how about giving Fiora a selfheal/value identity: make her level 1 Form a 3/3 challenger that when it slays an enemy restores it's life completely and level 2 Fiora a 4/4 with scout that restores her life on slay and grant herself +1/+1
She would be a very powerful duellist and she would fit demacia's board oriented playstyle she however doesn't resemble an all in wincondition anymore.
A Champion that also needs a reword since ages is lee sin. Sure we don't have a meta where he shines right now but does that mean he is a healthy champion no and he proably will never be healthy in his current form. I currently don't know how a strong but fair lee sin would look like but for sure it would look different than his current form.
I personally hate to call decks like daring poro buff a combo deck because it's not like you actually combine 2 cards combining their effects for greater payoff.
Iceborn legacy decks all tend to be token decks where the key function of your deck is to replicate card x as much as possible. In a way that is a "combo" but really it's just playing the same card over and over and over and more of a strange midrange deck.
To me poros are as much of a combo deck as jade golems in hs are.
Edit: I will only consider those decks combo decks where a sequence of cards played result in a direct win, or where a specific synergy is used to break midocre cards. Anthem effects like Poro Snax and or Iceborn Legacy do not count for me.
even with reach being a thing the Daring Poro strategy will be very hard to disrupt.
most decks can kill 1-2 5/5 elusives already but 5+ of them that cost only 1 mana each? There is no deck that realistically can do so and even with reach there won't.
Especially Ionia doesn't have any form of counterplay to legacy Daring Poros despite being one of the regions witht the best removal in the game and being the region with the highest number of elusive units. Their elusive units are too small their counterspells can't interact with snacks/iceborn and their recall effects... well aren't that good when used on 1 mana units.
Other regions also struggle with poros (or more like cheap elusive spam that doesn't have to do anything with the original poro theme) no questions asked but given that THE counterplay regions knows no answer to this strategy make it look really degenerate to me.
You best bet is to rush the poro player and despite that being doable it's only doable for a small subset of decks.
I think poros and spiders mainly work because they have many cheap units that get buffed by Iceborn Legacy to unresonable sizes. There is simply no elusive deck that can compete with a bunch of 5/5 Daring Poros or any midrange/control list that can answer turn 5 boards filled with 4/3 spiderlings
To me the best thing riot could do now is to revert Iceborn Legacy to it's original effect which means 3 mana burst speed but only grant +1/+1.
This proably is decent in limited but for constructed you don't want a 4/2 suicide squad for 3 mana
go get it doesnt get played in ahri kennen because the units played in the deck are too small for it to shine.
Unless you target the likes of sei'nen thousand-tailed with it you are way better off with recallying for 1 mana
That said go get it has decks in which it can shine.
as far as i know some yordles got play effects. Hitting those is terrible and for those who have summon effects this is this 2 cards for 1 unit at burst speed.
I doubt this will make it into deck not even in limited
It's not like bandle city would care about discarding so it's essentially a 4 mana grant all units +1/+1 at focus speed.
I don't think this is good enough
It's kinda a Go Get It for 1 less mana that doesn't summon an ephemeral copy in place and is more flexible.
Sounds to me like a very good protections/combo spell and I am quite sure will see some use of this card
Given that brother's bond never really took off it'a hard to imagine this trick doing much better.
Sure 1 health buff can be a big deal but i feel like it won't be most of the time and this card won't be great despite being in bandle city.
Sto already guessed what happened here.
Spells always target the current instance of a unit. By the unit leaving play in any way before resolving the spell the spell loses it's target and fizzles.
In mtg we have a comparable, more widely used mechanic called flicker. It does obliterate a unit to summon the unit again which in mtg means all instances targeting the creature before fizzling.
In LoR exactly the same thing is happing: if a unit leaves the battlefield before your spell resolves, your spell's targeted effect is gone
Nvm Gluttony indeed only summons followers I maybe should read cards before explaining them :)
So no sacrifizing the undying to gluttony won't summon Kindred. The Vaults of Helia however work well
From my side: I just stack buffs on augment units with my Riven Vi list until they oneshot the enemy nexus.
I know that's not really "subtile" but it works and made me rank up in no time.
Edit: lets make an gentlemen agreement that if nifty creates another post of this kind we remain on one of his older posts on this topic? He eventually stops with that behavior then
The reason why deckbuilding is so complicated are the different aspects of a deck that need to be addressed in to make a deck actually good.
Those aspects are:
Tempo (don't spend the first 2 turns passing unless you want to cast a 6 cost spell/or play a Nami deck)
Consistantcy (make sure you know your key cards and that the key cards are 3 ofs)
Individual card power (no matter if a card was meant for your archetype or not: play it if it does work don't if it doesn't)
Disruption (keep the opponent from winning eighter through aggression or removal)
Ressistance to disruption (make sure you deck can shrug off 1 aoe, 2 spotremovals, and can address early agression)
Scaling (to know when you want to end and what cards to consider)
Nexus healing (to counter burn)
I agree knowing your enemy is something very useful in LoR
If i wouldn't know that the removal of the current meta decks was very mediocre I couldn't confidently pick riven vi stack my units to 10 power and stomp my enemies.
That said I still like the more casual attitude of Bingo. Playing for fun certainly is a good thing to do on LoR
I however witnessed that players in gold doesn't seem to care about tier lists otherwise i would not see covina control being the most played archetype (which is kinda bad for a deck filled with 1 health units )
How about you stop always creating new posts for the same topic?
Just name a posts Nifty's metatalk and continue it.
The consistant flood of "new" topics is just annoying imo.
And if you take a look at what archetypes don't care about champions it all are aggro decks
It should not surprise anyone that champions who by design aren't supposed to instantly level up won't be played for their level 2 in those lists.
So it's not because champions being weak but decks aiming for faster endings that building around champions is maybe less a thing than in the early days of LoR
"Synergy is dead, deck building is dead, Champs are dead, strategy is dead."
Alright who told you that nonsens? Champions ARE still meaningful. Champions ARE better than their follower cards by a lot.
Champions no longer go unanswered and if that is something that bothers you you better go complain about Hush Minimorph Vengeance and the likes of them which are the reasons why the role of champions changed.
And a good example of deck building not being dead is the latest Hextech Handler swarm deck. I mean yeah it's kinda silly to play against and it's kinda broken but it's a quite unique build that hasn't been seen in the past (as far as I know)
We need highrolls in the game to keep it relevant? I don't see how this was ever necessary for a good game?
Consistantcy was always a key feature of good decks which is why boat effects were introduced.
There is nothing wrong with putting power budget into champions but with an overall increasing powerlevel and an increasing quality of spot removal playing around single champions is not supposed to be a key to success anymore.
Champion designes like Zoe are the new way to go for champions: rather cheap units that generate value and which resemles a viable lvl 2 win condition which doesn't care if the unit dies right after level up.
Lee Sin is a huge outlier in the championpool and kinda the last champion to be hyperresilient to removal.
There is no good reason why a 5 mana champion should be an outlier in this regard. I could see him doing what he does on 7+ mana since greater costs comes with greater tolerance for an acceptable powerlevel (looking at unnerfed Sion)
I kinda can agree that Twisted Fate wasn't too opressive toward any specific strategy. The "problem" with him is his jack of all trades nature that turns him into a strong champion no matter what the matchup is. I could see reverting the nerf to his level up condition while keeping Pick a Card as it is.
Fiora however really needs a rework: how about giving Fiora a selfheal/value identity: make her level 1 Form a 3/3 challenger that when it slays an enemy restores it's life completely and level 2 Fiora a 4/4 with scout that restores her life on slay and grant herself +1/+1
She would be a very powerful duellist and she would fit demacia's board oriented playstyle she however doesn't resemble an all in wincondition anymore.
A Champion that also needs a reword since ages is lee sin. Sure we don't have a meta where he shines right now but does that mean he is a healthy champion no and he proably will never be healthy in his current form. I currently don't know how a strong but fair lee sin would look like but for sure it would look different than his current form.
I personally hate to call decks like daring poro buff a combo deck because it's not like you actually combine 2 cards combining their effects for greater payoff.
Iceborn legacy decks all tend to be token decks where the key function of your deck is to replicate card x as much as possible. In a way that is a "combo" but really it's just playing the same card over and over and over and more of a strange midrange deck.
To me poros are as much of a combo deck as jade golems in hs are.
Edit: I will only consider those decks combo decks where a sequence of cards played result in a direct win, or where a specific synergy is used to break midocre cards. Anthem effects like Poro Snax and or Iceborn Legacy do not count for me.
even with reach being a thing the Daring Poro strategy will be very hard to disrupt.
most decks can kill 1-2 5/5 elusives already but 5+ of them that cost only 1 mana each? There is no deck that realistically can do so and even with reach there won't.
Especially Ionia doesn't have any form of counterplay to legacy Daring Poros despite being one of the regions witht the best removal in the game and being the region with the highest number of elusive units. Their elusive units are too small their counterspells can't interact with snacks/iceborn and their recall effects... well aren't that good when used on 1 mana units.
Other regions also struggle with poros (or more like cheap elusive spam that doesn't have to do anything with the original poro theme) no questions asked but given that THE counterplay regions knows no answer to this strategy make it look really degenerate to me.
You best bet is to rush the poro player and despite that being doable it's only doable for a small subset of decks.
I think poros and spiders mainly work because they have many cheap units that get buffed by Iceborn Legacy to unresonable sizes. There is simply no elusive deck that can compete with a bunch of 5/5 Daring Poros or any midrange/control list that can answer turn 5 boards filled with 4/3 spiderlings
To me the best thing riot could do now is to revert Iceborn Legacy to it's original effect which means 3 mana burst speed but only grant +1/+1.
Old Iceborn Legacy was really good New Iceborn Legacy is imo too good.
What do you think?