XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
The time has come! We have extra dust from DE nerfs! What, if any, cards are you going to craft with your nerf dust?
I'm not jumping the gun to craft anything as I'm not desperate for anything in particular. But when I do craft, it will probably be the following just to round off my collection, or give me some fun cards to toy with.
I've been told Big Priest was the best and only deck that can be played in wild. What's this about Mage? Priest is the only wild class.
SoU changed everything. Barnes nerf came too late. I barely run into Big Priest anymore. I don't know about lower ranks, 15-10 might still be BP (though we'll see what happens with the Barnes nerf), but 5+ they are a rare breed.
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
I have found them both useful in many situations. Helping finish your quest faster with your Lackey generators, shutting down opponents turn after turn with Loatheb, Eater of Secrets, getting ridiculous heals from Antique Healbot, more Jades from Jade Spirit, and shutting down aggro boards with additional [Hearthstone Card (Sandstorm Elementals) Not Found]. Most of my games aren't won with Shudderwock anyways, and I have never felt it negatively effect my Shudder boards in any ways.
Normally when a deck is super popular, I take a look at the stats but in this case ...
Looks like it wins its worst matchup is almost 60% of the time, which is hilarious. This is a 41k sample size, so it's not some kind of fluke. I've played a few decks that have been fair against mage, but those are by no means counters. If anyone figures out how to do it reliably, I'd love to hear about it too
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman with Eater of Secrets instead of Kezan and without Healbot (double Lifedrinker though) and I don't think it's a good matchup. Even with healbot, the issue is most frequently both completing the quest before you die (you essentially have to get both Sludge Slurper and Cable Rat in order to do so in time) and, above all, controlling the board. You can Antique Healbot all you want but they're not really spending that many spells burning you down, they just beat you up reoeatedly with minions and nothing you play sticks. Secret Mage has an absurdly fast early game while Quest Shaman barely does anything impactful until turn 4. Once they start landing their Crystal Runners and Cloud Princes, all you got is a hope and a prayer that you've had your Hagatha's Scheme in hand from turn 1 and that the secret they have up isn't Counterspell (cause you don't really have that many cheap, throwaway spells, nor the time to play them). My Jade Shudder Shaman has been doing very well a day or two ago and over the entirety of its existence it has lost exactly one game to Warlocks (and I play against them all the time, so that's an amazing statistic), but Paladins (mech handbuff, Flying Machine variety) and Secret Mages started appearing a lot more now and keep holding me down. My Mage winrate with that deck is tear-inducing, despite beating up on Reno Mages.
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman too, and have had a few matches I was able to keep Burn Mage under control, but for the most part don't stand a chance. It comes down to drawing either Antique Healbot or Eater of Secrets. If you can bounce the eater back to your hand with either Zola the Gorgon or Bog Slosher, it's GG. Otherwise, you don't stand a chance.
Btw, the new SoU Secret cards are completely useless in Standard atm.
If Secret Mage was a meta deck in Standard, I bet they would have also released a new powerful series of techs or soft techs to deal with it.
So, while they do build archetypes in several expansions, also in Standard, the neat result for now is null in Standard, while it revamped a deck that now threatens to nuke the Wild meta into some kind of ridiculousness.
Was it really necessary to release all these powerful Secret cards together (if at all), with no counterpart?
In the meanwhile, I'll try and adjust my own decks to deal with Burn Mage. Let's hope we can find a solution that makes everyone fairly satisfied.
They released a new secret tech with the new classic cards. SI:7 Infiltrator. But too bad it's the worst secret tech ever. I have a feeling because they added secret tech to the classic set, they feel they don't need to print more.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
I was just thinking about this as a deck to counter Reno decks, was wondering if anyone had tried something like this, and I come across your deck which is pretty much what I had in mind. How has this been working out for you?
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
With reno decks returning in full force, I wonder if Warriors will start to incorporate the bomb package to nullify/delay highlander cards. Maybe an aggro warrior with the bomb package sprinkled in? Warrior is my least favorite class, so it's not one I'm great at theorycrafting.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
That satisfying feeling when you're playing against a mage, have them set up for lethal, and they start frantically trying to dig for their Ice Block, playing Ancient Mysteries followed by Arcane Intellect and after striking out twice, they throw down Arcane Keysmith, on the 3rd attempt, finally find their saving grace. Until you shatter their dreams instantly with an Eater of Secrets. Fuck you Jaina, no Ice Block followed by Reno Jackson for you this time!
That's only 3 out of 9 classes that their top deck currently has Zilliax. 3/4 of the decks for those classes are Highlander decks. Zilliax makes sense to include in a highlander deck, and isn't at all surprising.
I just don't want to advertise my decks because it's more about a discussion. I'm no new to the outof.cards etc and I know how to post decks. Still apreciate your suggestion though ^^
Don't think anyone would consider it advertising. People need easy access to viewing the decks in order to discuss them. And honestly, people are lazy.
It's hard for people to make comments without reference. For example: I for one would like to make a point that I don't find Odd Rogue to be a unique deck. It's been a T1 wild deck for quite some time, and imo doesn't fit the definition of "unique". But for all I know, you run a completely different list that is actually unique and not just the same boring Odd Rogue I have played countless matches against for the past year or so. But because I'm lazy, I didn't check your deck to verify your list.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
Not all cards are made to "shake up the meta". But I would argue they did shake it up because we have multiple new archetypes that you see on ladder. Whether they are viable or not isn't the point. They did change the meta. We are in a completely different world than the last month of RoS. It's not the same meta at all. Yes some quests are played more than others, but the same applies to all cards in a set. Any time new cards are introduced, the meta is going to get a shake up. That's why they print new cards.
As for future buffs. Maybe someday? Buffs are new territory, so it's hard to say for sure, and the devs haven't said anything.
One indirect buff could be the round of nerfs coming in. With the top T1 decks being targeted, it opens the path for other decks that were hard countered by the big 3. Nerfs shake up the meta, and give a chance for other decks to develop. Druid for example stood no chance against the top 4 decks of the meta. With 3 of those getting a nerf, it opens up the possibility for it to see a better win rate.
As for furthering support. This is EXTREMELY likely (except Paladin because the reborn mechanic will most likely stay within SoU). Blizz always looks at archetypes that are fun but not viable, and prints support cards to try and make the deck work. The Warlock quest was made specifically because of Plot Twist, which was a cool card, but had little use. The quest was made to try and create support for this fun card. Yes it is still meme tier, but not every deck needs to be T1 to have it's place in the game.
A lot of the quests have cards that will always be a thing. Example: Choose One cards will always be part of Druid's identity. And Battlecry cards have been around since the dawn of time. So any new battlecry cards could help out the Shaman Quest.
XarkkalServant of Illidan 9101321 PostsJoined 03/29/2019
Posted 5 years, 4 months ago
I'd suggest putting your decks in the thread via the deck builder. You used the HS deck code, and most people aren't going to take the time to copy that code over to see the deck list. The deck builder on this site allows you to paste the deck code in for quick deck building.
The time has come! We have extra dust from DE nerfs! What, if any, cards are you going to craft with your nerf dust?
I'm not jumping the gun to craft anything as I'm not desperate for anything in particular. But when I do craft, it will probably be the following just to round off my collection, or give me some fun cards to toy with.
SoU changed everything. Barnes nerf came too late. I barely run into Big Priest anymore. I don't know about lower ranks, 15-10 might still be BP (though we'll see what happens with the Barnes nerf), but 5+ they are a rare breed.
No quest shaman is not a problem.
Well he can't use Reno if you have 2 or more bombs in there.
Yes you can recraft Barnes if you ever wish to.
Anytime! This list carried me all the way to rank 4. I probably could have taken it higher, but wanted to try some other decks out.
No one expects those 0/2 totems to be much of a problem, until suddenly they are dead from a Totemic Surge or Vessina.
Awesome to see they are monitoring an improving Zephrys the Great! Now time to go take my inner rage out on Barnes and Luna's Pocket Galaxy with that disenchant button! Maybe Dr. Boom, Mad Genius too, though I bet I'll end up recrafting him.
I have found them both useful in many situations. Helping finish your quest faster with your Lackey generators, shutting down opponents turn after turn with Loatheb, Eater of Secrets, getting ridiculous heals from Antique Healbot, more Jades from Jade Spirit, and shutting down aggro boards with additional [Hearthstone Card (Sandstorm Elementals) Not Found]. Most of my games aren't won with Shudderwock anyways, and I have never felt it negatively effect my Shudder boards in any ways.
I knew it was bad, but this is just wow...
I've been playing Jade Quest Shaman too, and have had a few matches I was able to keep Burn Mage under control, but for the most part don't stand a chance. It comes down to drawing either Antique Healbot or Eater of Secrets. If you can bounce the eater back to your hand with either Zola the Gorgon or Bog Slosher, it's GG. Otherwise, you don't stand a chance.
They released a new secret tech with the new classic cards. SI:7 Infiltrator. But too bad it's the worst secret tech ever. I have a feeling because they added secret tech to the classic set, they feel they don't need to print more.
I was just thinking about this as a deck to counter Reno decks, was wondering if anyone had tried something like this, and I come across your deck which is pretty much what I had in mind. How has this been working out for you?
With reno decks returning in full force, I wonder if Warriors will start to incorporate the bomb package to nullify/delay highlander cards. Maybe an aggro warrior with the bomb package sprinkled in? Warrior is my least favorite class, so it's not one I'm great at theorycrafting.
That satisfying feeling when you're playing against a mage, have them set up for lethal, and they start frantically trying to dig for their Ice Block, playing Ancient Mysteries followed by Arcane Intellect and after striking out twice, they throw down Arcane Keysmith, on the 3rd attempt, finally find their saving grace. Until you shatter their dreams instantly with an Eater of Secrets. Fuck you Jaina, no Ice Block followed by Reno Jackson for you this time!
It's actually in a lot less decks since SoU dropped. Just look at the Standard Meta Report #2 article on the main page.
Does it have Zilliax?
That's only 3 out of 9 classes that their top deck currently has Zilliax. 3/4 of the decks for those classes are Highlander decks. Zilliax makes sense to include in a highlander deck, and isn't at all surprising.
Zilliax is powerful, yes. In need of a nerf? no
You get a card back, and you get a card back and you get a card back! EVERY BODY GETS A CARD BACK!
Don't think anyone would consider it advertising. People need easy access to viewing the decks in order to discuss them. And honestly, people are lazy.
It's hard for people to make comments without reference. For example: I for one would like to make a point that I don't find Odd Rogue to be a unique deck. It's been a T1 wild deck for quite some time, and imo doesn't fit the definition of "unique". But for all I know, you run a completely different list that is actually unique and not just the same boring Odd Rogue I have played countless matches against for the past year or so. But because I'm lazy, I didn't check your deck to verify your list.
Not all cards are made to "shake up the meta". But I would argue they did shake it up because we have multiple new archetypes that you see on ladder. Whether they are viable or not isn't the point. They did change the meta. We are in a completely different world than the last month of RoS. It's not the same meta at all. Yes some quests are played more than others, but the same applies to all cards in a set. Any time new cards are introduced, the meta is going to get a shake up. That's why they print new cards.
As for future buffs. Maybe someday? Buffs are new territory, so it's hard to say for sure, and the devs haven't said anything.
One indirect buff could be the round of nerfs coming in. With the top T1 decks being targeted, it opens the path for other decks that were hard countered by the big 3. Nerfs shake up the meta, and give a chance for other decks to develop. Druid for example stood no chance against the top 4 decks of the meta. With 3 of those getting a nerf, it opens up the possibility for it to see a better win rate.
As for furthering support. This is EXTREMELY likely (except Paladin because the reborn mechanic will most likely stay within SoU). Blizz always looks at archetypes that are fun but not viable, and prints support cards to try and make the deck work. The Warlock quest was made specifically because of Plot Twist, which was a cool card, but had little use. The quest was made to try and create support for this fun card. Yes it is still meme tier, but not every deck needs to be T1 to have it's place in the game.
A lot of the quests have cards that will always be a thing. Example: Choose One cards will always be part of Druid's identity. And Battlecry cards have been around since the dawn of time. So any new battlecry cards could help out the Shaman Quest.
I'd suggest putting your decks in the thread via the deck builder. You used the HS deck code, and most people aren't going to take the time to copy that code over to see the deck list. The deck builder on this site allows you to paste the deck code in for quick deck building.
I did your first one for you as an example.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/7124-firepaladinhs-anyfin-paladin
Then you can put the link or embed the deck in your post.
Just a suggestion