Welcome back to another Fan Community Spotlight. We've got an interesting one for you today. Today, I've got ShadowsOfSense, the Hearthstone Community manager of the site, long time staff member and fan content curator. Yeah, that guy. The guy who always has some kind of turtle as his avatar. What I'm going to be showcasing here is his custom core Priest set, consisting of several actual cards (a first for this series) and new cards.
Blizzard employees have admitted in the past that Priest's core set may end up needing a complete overhaul rather than simply a few card changes. Ever since Standard rotation existed in the game with Whispers of the Old Gods, Priest's core set problems have become apparent and under discussion in the community.
Let's see how Shadows decides to handle Anduin's evergreen set.
A lot of cards ended up being cut. What happened here?
Shadows: "Of the 25 cards in the Basic and Classic set, I cut just over half of them. I started from a simple position; look at all the cards and remove the very worst of them. The whole goal of this was to improve the Priest’s Basic and Classic set, so it made sense to look for the worst cards they had and just drop them.
There are certainly ways that I could have tried to buff the cards, but I didn’t want to tweak cards too much – I can understand that some people may want to play with these cards in the future, no matter how bad, and some of them would require so much balancing that they might not resemble what they once were anymore. The cards I deemed ‘too bad’ were Radiance, Mind Vision, Holy Nova, Shadowform and Mindgames. As much as I like some of these effects – Shadowform especially – they just aren’t good cards, and require too much support to be worth keeping.
Next to go were the ‘too good’ cards. This is a very nebulous area – a lot of the reason these cards might be too good involves the direction I wanted to take the class, and so in theory some of them could have been kept in a different reimagining. Not for mine, though. Both Inner Fire and Divine Spirit got the axe, because Priest needs to learn how to win games without it, and Northshire Cleric took a hit as well. Cleric I went back and forth on, but eventually decided that if it stayed it was going to get hit like Mana Wyrm and so many others before it, and I didn’t want Wild players to lose that.
The final five cards I removed were all in the vein of shaping Priest in a different direction. Prophet Velen and Holy Smite bit the ‘please do something other than combo’ bullet; Lightspawn and Lightwell already lost a lot of their synergy and were on the weaker side, so got removed to make room for better, more on-point cards; Auchenai Soulpriest is just a card I personally dislike, and it ends up being quite anti-synergistic with the direction I was pushing, so it got rotated out too."
It wouldn't be an FCS without some of your own cards, so let's see them. What were your goals for each of them?
Shadows: "Several of the cards I created were intended to fulfil similar roles to some of the removed cards, but tweaked enough that just altering the original card would feel like straying too far from its original idea. Holy Alignment takes the place of Holy Smite – no longer able to hit face directly, something I wanted to avoid (following the example of the rotation of Mind Blast) but with the compensation of a small healing option. Meeting of Minds replaces Mind Vision – a more powerful effect, but on a much more expensive card, meaning the effect can still be played around with and beefed up in expansion cards. Prosper in Peace plays the role of Northshire Cleric – card draw for being healthy, but less abusable by being one-and-done.
Barrier Priest and Power Word: Barrier give Priest access to a new tool – the Animated Armor effect of reducing all damage to 1. I’m very pleased how well this works in terms of relating to the actual WoW skill, and I like that it opens up more options for what Priest can do to protect its minions as opposed to just healing or gaining Health.
Battle Medic and Soul Survivor show off what Priest can be allowed to do when Divine Spirit and Inner Fire are no longer a consideration. Instead of relying on combo pieces to give them strong minions, Priest can just… have beefy minions. Soul Survivor is even a little understatted, but as a Basic minion I’m okay with that. I imagine that going forward with this set you’d see expansion cards of a similar quality across all mana costs."
What identity were you going for?
Shadows: "The Priest I envision is the king of the board. I want them to play minions that stick, and then heal them up while they remove their opponent’s minions, either through their traditional kill spells like the Shadow Words, by stealing them, or by just straight up outliving them in fights.
Their win condition is no longer finding their Velen and the right burst spells, or assembling some out-of-nowhere Ex-boar-dia. Now they deal with the board efficiently and whittle their opponent down over time with their newly allowed stronger minions."
A few cards from future expansions are rotated into the set. Did these cards just happen to fit in perfectly with what you were trying to do?
Shadows: "For the seven Classic cards that I removed, the first thing I did was look to existing sets to see what was already available to me. Work smarter, not harder, right? There’s no point in spending time trying to design a card to fit a role if one already exists. I didn’t do the same for the Basics because I didn’t want to change any rarities where possible – I also didn’t want to even begin to think about what kind of compensation players might be owed for stuff like that.
I knew I wanted a strong, low-cost spell that could deal with minions early on – Penance was a perfect fit. Not too strong, but something you’d feel good about including in your deck. As I was including Lifesteal, I also took the time to throw Holy Fire a small buff and change it to have Lifesteal as well. Why not, right?
I needed a strong midgame board clear. There are a lot of options available to Priest for this, mainly because their previous board clear was so bad and they needed to keep updating it. I narrowed it down to two candidates – Lightbomb or Mass Hysteria. The other options either came too early or late, or featured mechanics that didn’t feel right to me (like Dragonfire Potion's Dragon-synergy, or Excavated Evil’s shuffling). Between Lightbomb and Mass Hysteria, I felt Mass Hysteria hit the appropriate power level for me, coming in as sort of like Brawl. I changed the art on a whim when someone suggested the current art didn’t feel super appropriate for the Classic set flavour-wise.
Embrace the Shadow is in to replace Auchenai Soulpriest. I quite like the mechanic but having it on a body is awkward when so much of what I’m trying to do revolves around trying to keep your minions alive. Making it a one-and-done works much better with the set I planned out.
Finally, Darkshire Alchemist is just… a solid card. A strong heal, and it works nicely with a lot of what I’ve introduced: it combos well with Embrace; it heals Soul Survivor a decent chunk; it itself has a fairly large body, just enough to get maximum value from a Circle of Healing. It felt like an obvious inclusion."
Do you have anything behind the scenes you want to share?
Shadows: "Talking with others when designing the set was invaluable to me. Alonsus Faol is a great example – this started out as Catrina Muerte, since I felt she was the most Classic-appropriate legendary that Priest had already. She represented the Resurrect mechanic in a good, but not overpowered or particularly abusable way. However, it was pointed out to me that in addition to not everyone liking Resurrect as much as me, Catrina Muerte was also a super weird flavour fit. Since I didn’t want to reskin her – similar to buffs/nerfs, I wouldn’t want people to ‘lose’ a card like that – I’d need to create something new.
The effect came quickly. A strong heal like this one isn’t what you’d call a traditional ‘finisher’ as Classic legendaries tend to be, but it plays well with the gameplan of the class and would allow you to overwhelm an opponent far more easily. I struggled to come up with an appropriate character for it, though, due to my very barebones knowledge of WoW lore. It was initially Queen Moira, because that was a character I was familiar with through Hearthstone. I was quickly saved and informed of the importance of Alonsus Faol – not a character that I knew, but one that others would.
I also ended up rebalancing quite a few things; my love of Ice Block shone through in the first revision of the Barrier mechanic, for example, letting it target your hero and annoyingly buy you a turn. That was almost definitely too good, especially not in an expansion. Never shy away from honest criticism; a fresh pair of eyes will spot flaws that you've managed to tune out in pursuit of a particularly good bit of flavour, or a faulty comparison to existing balance."
What design philosophies do you have? What do you wish to spread to future creators?
Shadows: "I think the most important philosophy I have when designing cards is to push the boundaries whenever you can, wherever you can.
Something like this – redesigning a Class’s Basic and Classic set – is all about pushing and prodding the edges of what you think should be allowed and reigning in what you think maybe shouldn’t. It’s an obvious example, but it carries over into every other thing I’ve ever done in custom cards.
One expansion I made a while back and would like to revisit to rebalance involved playing with giving Classes access to keywords and effects traditionally from other classes – how do you flavour Enrage (RIP) in Druid? What might a Rogue do with Overload? That challenge of making them feel appropriate in their new home was exceptionally fun, and really helps you understand why some classes can do things that others definitely shouldn’t.
Never be afraid to do something weird with your flavour, either. Some of the most interesting cards I’ve seen have come from attempts to faithfully recreate mechanics from non-WoW sources – Overwatch Heroes or Pokemon or even other card games, anything that inspires you to create is awesome!"
Do you have anything else you wish to share?
Shadows: I’ll make no claims about producing any other finished products anytime soon – I’ve fallen into that trap far too many times before – but I will say that I have at least four expansions and a class kicking about, waiting for me to find the time to come back to them. Hopefully I can share them with you all at some point, because I love everything about them so far.
Other than that, I’m excited to see what other people come up with this year! We’ve got so many mechanics now and I love seeing how people still find new areas to explore. Hell, maybe some of you can take a crack at fixing Priest up – I’d love to know how others would like the class to evolve."
Here's the final result in the end:
What do you guys think about Shadows' overhaul of the core Priest set? Let us know in the comments.
Comments
Oh shit! Got beaten to it!
This all looks great! I really like this new priest set better than the old one. But I do have some notes though.
I don't like Meeting of Minds. Not because it is overpowered, but simply because it is too complicated for a basic card. We have never had to look at more than 4 cards at once before, so having a basic card that wants to loot at between two and ten cards just seems like too much. I don't think you need to make it weaker, the power level is fine, but you should make it simpler because it is a basic card.
I also don't like Mass Hysteria in the classic set for the same reason I don't like Meeting of Minds, it just feels too unique to be a classic card. We don't see a lot of forced attacks, so having something like this is just weird. Also, it does feel a bit too powerful. Priest does need a reliable board clear in the basic/classic set so that they don't need to get a new one each expansion, but it shouldn't be so good that no other expansion card can beat it. What priest needs is something like flamestrike in mage. It is not a very powerful board clear, but it is always there if there is nothing else. There should never be a card in the basic/classic set that will always be better than other expansion cards. I think something like Lightbomb would have been better, and even then I would make it cost 7 and also make it a rare to compensate. Priest needs a good board clear in their classic set, not an amazing one.
I would also take lifesteal out of the basic/classic set. You are okay with changing Holy Fire to have lifesteal, so why not just change Penance to say "restore 3 health to your hero" instead? That way, both of those cards are in line with the rest of the basic/classic set. Instead you changed both of them to be out of place. Why?
One more thing, I would give priest a different classic legendary. Again, I am not concerned with it being over power or too weak, but it just feels really out of place with the other classic legendarys. Every other class gets a big finisher as their classic legendary, but priest just has another niche tool to keep their minions alive. I would change him to instead help you finish off your opponent and close out the game, not prolong it.
TLDR: Meeting of Minds is too complicated to be a basic card. Mass Hysteria is too unique and so it feels out of place in the classic set, also it is too strong. Lifesteal shouldn't be in the basic/classic set. And priests classic legendary should be a strong finisher and not a way to prolong the game.
I don't think Meeting of Minds is too complicated. My comparison point is always the most complicated Basic card - Animal Companion. A new player has no way of knowing what an Animal Companion is or how many of them there are before playing the card - conversely, you always know the size of your opponent's hand, and I think seeing the full hand is much easier to grasp than seeing only part of it.
I wavered between Mass Hysteria and Lightbomb for a long time. I definitely don't think either card is too strong to include in Priest's Core Set - look at Brawl. Should Priest, whose identity I'm basing around board control, not have a comparably powerful board clear? I could absolutely see Lightbomb instead, but Mass Hysteria won out for being the cheaper card, and thus more directly comparable to both Brawl and Holy Nova.
I think Lifesteal should be in the Classic set. I'd also put Rush there too, and I could probably be persuaded on some of the weaker Discover cards like [Hearthstone Card (Jeweled Beetle) Not Found]. We've already seen Rogue get an additional Poisonous card - a Basic card, even - and if I were to redesign other classes I'd include those other keywords. Warsong Commander is begging for her old effect but with Rush instead of Charge.
I don't see Alonsus Faol as too out of place. Since your game plan is to win the board - at least with the Core Set - having a card which lets you trade favourably and then return to full Health, potentially multiple times, is game-ending. At least as much as something like Tirion Fordring. If Faol isn't removed quickly, you will win. That it doesn't kill the opponent immediately doesn't mean it isn't a huge swing in your favour if played right.
If you look at it, the Evergreen set only contains a few keywords: charge, poisonous, taunt, overload, battlecry, deathrattle, windfury, divine shield (I hope I didn't forget any).
It is ok to not include keywords that are used once in all the history of the game (Magnetic, Overkill, Adapt, Echo, Recruit, obviously Invoke and probably Reborn), but with time the Devs have chosen new mechanics to use set after set: I'm talking about Discover (widely used since the first expansions), Lifesteal (introduced in Knights of the Frozen Throne and used in every expansion since then) and Rush (same reasoning of Lifesteal, since Witchwood).
Yes, in the whole Evergreen set there isn't a single Discover card, while in some cases 1/4 of the cards of some expansions can somehow do it (Rise of Shadow's "created by" meta for example).
I'm really sensible to newbies' game experience (in the past I struggled a lot between rank 21 and 18 before grasping how to be good at the game, so I won't forget any time soon what hell that rank belt is), but I don't think concepts like "heal for the damage it deals" or "choose one from three and add it to your hand" should be that difficult to get. To be honest, Overload looks like a trickier concept for someone that doesn't know the game.
Adding lifesteal to Holy Fire makes it a much better card and you shouldn't worsen Penance just for the sake of consistency. Capping the amount of healing means that you cripple yourself from improving it with Spell Damage (I don't know when you started playing the game, but Bloodmage Thalnos + Spirit Lash was one hell of an aggro killer), which is not irrelevant as you might think.
In other words, right now every expansion has Discover, Lifesteal and Rush: if you want to start the game you'll eventually get in touch with them after at worst 2-3 games. While I can understand people's doubts for Rush, I really don't see reasons for not adding the other two to the Evergreen set except the will of not improving it.
I remember this being posted two weeks ago or so in a specific thread and I also see that Shadow included some changes suggested by the community (Meeting of Minds being 3 mana instead of 2, the Barrier concept being reworked in order to affect only friendly minions and not your hero as well,...).
I agree with both the idea of a Priest core set's overhaul and the choices made by our fellow user: I think most of them are really on point and the flavor aspect is really strong and well built; however, I'm quite skeptical about whether a change like this will happen or not.
I better explain myself on this point: I'm almost certain that next April we'll see some consistent changes in the Evergreen set. There are cards that have seen play or have created problems for too long (Divine Spirit Inner Fire, Malygos, Leeroy Jenkins, Stonetusk Boar,...) or that have never seen play until now and they're unlikely going to be played in the future due to powercreep (Savagery, Lightwell, Kidnapper, Arcane Golem, Nat Pagle, The Beast, Felguard,...).
Everything looks fine until you take a look at Team 5's policy for changing the core set: up until now, the only "new" cards that have seen (very little) play are Brightwing, Pilfer and Tome of Intellect. Stuff like [Hearthstone Card (Barrons stablehand) Not Found] or Righteousness (I won't talk about Radiance cause that was one of the dirties blows I've ever seen since Purify) are underwhelming at best and no one sane will include them in a deck.
Ok, they dilute the Discover and RNG pool, ok Arena is also a thing, ok we can't (and I wholeheartedly agree on this one) have just good cards, but it is quite clear to me that T5 doesn't really want to introduce good cards (not broken or staple, just good) in the Evergreen set. The reason is simple: if you have bad cards, you need to buy better ones. And I can get behind it, since selling packs is their job. But for all the reasons I just explained I think Shadow's set is too good to be taken in consideration for a serious overhaul. Is it kind of sad? Yes, it is. Do I hope to be wrong about this? Hell yeah: please Team 5 prove me wrong, PLEASE.
Tl;dr - Shadow's set is cool but too good; up until now HoF cards have been replaced with bad to terrible stuff and unfortunately I don't see his idea being taken seriously by the Devs.
I'm not sure Hearthstone can display enough cards to make Meeting of Minds work. It would have to be 3 or 4 cards that are in the opponent's hand.
they can simply replicate the hand UI. Its not impossible, but these are things to think about in the design phase I guess.
"The technology is not here yet" cit. /s
I like this card set a lot. About battlemedic, I think it is s very fair card, stats like this doesn't matter anyways because of some high value minions in the past, like Savannah Highmane and Sylvanas Windrunner. Good card.
And another thing, one card I don't like is prosper in peace, my own work would be "Draw a card for each friendly minion you control with 3 Health or more ", I just wanted to make a little bit better, just my preference.
The rest looks okay, Alonsus Faol looks quite intimidating, but if I recall it, legendary cards in the classic sets were very powerful, so it seems perfectly fine to me.
Great rework, I want to give this new set a try!
In terms of theme and gameplay, Light of the Naaru seems like a perfect fit for the Priest core set. It's combo with Injured Blademaster feels very good.
As I said in the forum, this is overall a great job, not least because of flavour!
However, I stand by having a slightly stronger Faol: either 6/9 or (7).
But even more importantly, i'd really love Priest to have cards like Injured Blademaster in its core set. So, i'd give those Battle Medic and Soul Survivor an Injured Tol'vir treatment.
AND swap Thoughtsteal and Shadow Madness with Divine Hymn and Light of the Naaru to improve that synergy.
Man, would I love to play such a Priest, even just with Classic Set...
The thing about Shadow Madness is that it is one of the best defensive tech cards, aside from silence, when deathrattles are in vogue.
Most deathrattles such as Mechanical Whelp are usually 3 or less attack.
Also, some of the reborn minions share the same trait.
Got some serious plays and a few ragequits from Shadow Madness during the Uldum Meta, N'Zoth return and briefly when Deathrattle Rogue was the it in Standard in the opening weeks of the current meta.
Thoughtsteal ... it's more for spell priest (gah, that was a long time ago), Highlander or memes. But ... I've seen it bite me (against other priests) and others with the stuff it can dig up. Probably seen those happen more often than Lightwarden snowballs.
Thanks! It's interesting to see what cards people like and don't like - it really shows that Blizzard will have a hard time reworking Priest, if only because not everybody wants the same things from the class.
I must admit that Alonsus Faol was simply given Catrina Muerte's stats, since she was still on my mind. I could definitely see some tweaking as needed for him.
I like your idea for Battle Medic (and maybe Soul Survivor too). It'd mean giving them slightly better stats, but that's perfectly fine. It helps a lot with synergies and just a general 'class flavour' aspect. Battle Medic is really only a Vanilla 2/4 because I've been adamant about giving that to Priest for a long time - I can certainly see something like a Tauntless Injured Tol'vir as a Basic card.
Thoughtsteal and Shadow Madness I couldn't get rid of, if only because I wanted to keep as many different aspects of the Priest identity as possible, but I could definitely see a greater rework removing them, and those seem like solid choices for replacements.
This is an exercise I'd like to see streamers like Kripp and Kibler, and a guy who plays the hell out of the class like Zetalot, do, and compare what they come up with. And as someone with over 1,000 wins with priest, I'm glad you recognize some of the underrated gem cards in the Toolbox of Control class.
Do like the inclusion of Mass Hysteria in the core set -- Holy Nova is meaningless these days. Aggro is pretty much 3 health or more attack than health, and there's a lot of snowball/big minion cheats.
What I'd like to see in the "new core" set: Potion of Madness. Along with Shadow Madness and Cabal Shadow Priest, cards that take control of my opponent's stuff have been some of my favorite cards to play for their shock and frustration value, aside from the game-winning Mass Dispel.
In fact, if Blizzard is running from Shadow Priest Mind Blasting opponents, then let Mind Control Priest enter the fray. Valeera accesses the library of an opponent's deck; let Anduin access his opponent's minion's minds and cause chaos. A cheaper or stronger version of Mind Control Tech that works with three minions? Mind Control buffed to 8 mana? ...
The other aspect I'd like to see: Divine Shields. My WoW days are dated (left after Mists of Pandaria), but I recall Discipline Priest bubbling the hell out of raids being a thing. If Shadow Priest is getting shafted, why not go in this direction?
I first saw this in the forums thread, and must say again that all these proposed core set cards look really good. Looks like you've made a few changes since then, and all for the better (particularly to that quasi-ice block card which I can't recall what its name was)
I must still point out that meeting of minds is way too good to be in a core set. Its not so much the complete information of your opponent's hand that's troubling, its the fact that you get to choose any card and its yours. At the same time, I can't see how this can be changed and not nuke it at the same time, and since its thematically not consistent with the other cards, it might be better to simply remove it.
I really don't see an issue with Meeting of Minds at (3) - I'd push it to (4), but I'm convinced it'd be unplayable there. I suppose that isn't totally a bad thing for a Basic card, but I removed things like Radiance for being unplayable garbage, so I'd feel awkward introducing something just as bad.
Like, instead of taking a gamble and spending (3) to fish for something from your opponent's deck, why aren't you just playing a good card that synergises with your deck?
Its a good argument, though fishing from someone's hand I would argue is less rng than deck and therefore more powerful. I'm just having flashbacks to times where getting specific hero cards, or legendaries from [Hearthstone Card (drakonoid operative) Not Found] can totally ruin someone's day.
Also, it means all cards introduced have to now be balanced with priest cards in future expansions.
Just my thoughts on things
Thanks for the in-depth thoughts!