Hearthstone
Tell me about the current state of Hearthstone - Good time to return?
I'm growing bored with Runeterra. I don't play ladder, Labs is incredibly random, and Expedition mode is, IMO, like Arena but worse. That leaves Casual play, which is sometimes fun, but I have more Shards than I know what to do with and could craft enough Champions to have 3x of every existing one. I've max leveled every region, and I'm just growing bored and frustrated with the mechanics and how much decks rely on a single Champion.
How is HS these days? I haven't played in probably a year, but I've still watched my favorite streamers. Battlegrounds looks really fun - is it free or do you have to pay? How's the deck variety in regular play? I do like what they've done with Ranked. Playing LoR has made me really appreciate a lot of the mechanics of HS, believe it or not.
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I'm growing bored with Runeterra. I don't play ladder, Labs is incredibly random, and Expedition mode is, IMO, like Arena but worse. That leaves Casual play, which is sometimes fun, but I have more Shards than I know what to do with and could craft enough Champions to have 3x of every existing one. I've max leveled every region, and I'm just growing bored and frustrated with the mechanics and how much decks rely on a single Champion.
How is HS these days? I haven't played in probably a year, but I've still watched my favorite streamers. Battlegrounds looks really fun - is it free or do you have to pay? How's the deck variety in regular play? I do like what they've done with Ranked. Playing LoR has made me really appreciate a lot of the mechanics of HS, believe it or not.
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BG's still free.
Constructed is in a weird position, both im Standard and in Wild. There are a number of huge powerspikes, including some that feel like cheating, in various decks, yet the meta doesn't really feel warped towards a particular archetype, so far.
To me, it's a weird situation of odi et amo.
I think the new Expansion's made HS really fun.
The only class that doesn't have a tier 1 or 2 deck is Warlock, but everyone else has gotten some powerful new tools and toys for a mix of aggro decks, combo, control and ramp.
When LoR came out I quit Hearthstone, but while I still play LoR I've started to play some Hearthstone again since Scholomance came out. My experience has been very mixed so far. I've definitely been enjoying some of my older decks that I often used to play (especially those including Yogg because they unnerfed him), but I've had some bad experiences as well. The worst one by far was when my opponent (druid) played coined Barnes on turn 4 which pulled Kael'thas Sunstrider, and he was immediately able to draw over half of his deck and kill me while I was at almost full health. At least kael'thas is getting a big nerf that should stop this kind of stuff from happening, but when it happened I just couldn't believe anything like that was even allowed to happen in the game and it almost made me quit Hearthstone again. The other bad experiences are mostly just dumb rng stuff that made me lose games because I lost a coin flip. These probably frustrated me more than usual because I had gotten used to this type of rng not existing in LoR, and I realized that I still prefer that game because of it. However, at the same time the imo better type of rng, like random card generation, is also what makes Hearthstone games feel more different each time. Although this is probably also caused by the much larger amount of cards present in Hearthstone compared to LoR.
What Battlegrounds is concerned, I have still continued playing it every now and then even after LoR came out. Recently I've been enjoying it even more, probably because I decided to concede whenever I would not like my hero options and this has led me to be at a much lower rating where the game is less competitive and thus I'm able to play more fun and different builds. The BGs meta has actually not been in a good spot at all lately (but buffs and nerfs have just arrived!) because 1) cannon, a tier 2 card that fits into any early game build, was way too op and because of that the early rounds were mostly decided by which players got a cannon, 2) damage dealt was at an all-time high which led to very short games 3) one hero (Eudora) was by far the strongest hero and was able to kill people very early, which made getting matched against her in powerspike turns feel very bad, and 4) most players have figured out how to transition to murlocs, which led to most endgame matches being decided by "who gets brann + megasaur first and is lucky enough to get divine shield and poisonous".
As I already mentioned however, a lot of nerfs and buffs for BGs have just arrived this week which should adress most of these issues. Although we can't be sure, I actually think BGs is going to be in a good spot after these changes. The only problem might be that with the removal of megasaur, murlocs might end up being too weak throughout most of the game.
With all that said, I think you should give both Hearthstone and BGs a try if you're truly getting bored with LoR. Of course, LoR is getting a new expansion soon so I would also suggest giving it another chance once that comes out. You could also play both games at the same time and transition between them when one or the other is frustrating or boring you.
Btw you still need to pay with gold or real money for the BGs perks, but imo those are not worth it because they're temporary (there's a reset whenever a new expansion comes out) and they cost way too much for what you're getting.
Battlegrounds has been a refreshing addition, has constant updates (Including today). Don't really need the battlepass unless you want additional heroes to choose from at the start but meh. Right now there's only your rating and no rewards based on it so.
Tavern brawl is as it always was, mostly a 1 and done fiesta but hey free pack.
Standard is in a good state. Bit of variety and we'll see how much druid was hurt with the latest nerf on KT. For me personally, a little heavy on the aggro but its early.
My issues with LoR are many.
What are the BGs perks that you have to pay for? I thought it was a free mode.
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The BGs perks are:
- You can choose between 4 heroes instead of 2 at the start
- You can use emotes
- You can see your statistics
- I believe you also get 4 arena tickets
I have to admit, most of the issues you're having with LoR are not ones I'm experiencing (or at least not a lot), and I also think some are just present because the game is still pretty new. Though it is important to note that I mainly play casual play and labs because I don't care about ranking up.
@Kaladin
Here are my thoughts on your points.
1. Lack of card variety: Yeah I've felt that too in the last month or two, no matter how much they balance the game I feel like I've tried every card and strategy. However, with expansions coming every 2 months instead of 4, I think that this problem will be solved.
2. Champions limiting deckbuilding: I would disagree with you for the most part, since many champions can be used in multiple decks and regions, but I do agree that they've missed the mark on a few of them. Nautilus and Maokai, for example, are forced together in a Deep deck and aren't really viable anywhere else (except Maokai in some ephemeral decks). Also, some champions don't serve as win conditions and act as just good followers (For example, Sejuani and Braum were together in a midrange deck that wasn't focused on leveling either of them up).
3. Aggro being too good: I would disagree heavily with you here, since we've had multiple metas in which midrange is the most powerful and aggro decks aren't Tier 1. Although the game design might hypothetically make aggro powerful, riot always nerfs aggro when it's too good.
4. No AoE: I agree with you completely here, the only viable low cost boardclear is withering wail and maybe Twisted Fate (although they both only deal 1 damage). I think this will be solved with future expansions though.
5. No summoning Sickness: I don't think that missing out on tempo is that important in this game, especially since spell mana exists. Also, players often open attack, which makes summoning sickness irrelevant.
6. Broken Cards (Unyielding Spirit): Unyielding Spirit was nerfed to fast speed, which I think makes it a more healthy card. I think that there are some broken cards, but riot generally nerfs them when they become problematic.
7. Event Pass: I agree with you here, the event pass was annoying and made it feel like I had to play every day to complete it. Hopefully they make it take fewer games next time or reduce the first win of the day bonus (and scale back the total wins required to compensate). The missions were also poorly done.
8. Cosmetics costing real money: I think that cosmetics have to cost real money, just so that riot makes enough money to keep the game going. I think that they could include a few cosmetics to buy with F2P currency if they wanted.
https://youtu.be/83vL1PEWIJY
You can see the state here.
Totally broken cards that allows OTK on turn 1 spending 50 mana.
By The Holy Light!
You missed that they nerfed Kael
It's just an example. There are a lot of broken cards that allows uninteractive otk combos.
And the same OTK combo still possible with the nerf.
By The Holy Light!
You make it sound like it's a common deck while it's actually a deck by Meme OTK Master MarkMcKz.
This kind of power level is to be expected in Wild at this point. I don't agree with it but I'm sure you understand why it exists.
Twitch for those of you who care.
Still runaway aggro they refuse to nerf or print cards to buff control style play and in recent expansion they have starting printing tech cards against control to make it even worse which have premium stats, still busted rez mechanic they refuse to nerf since forever and even printing more ways to continuously play the same minion that has taunt on deathrattle destroy a minion.
So basically nothing has changed.
Living like that.
The highroll potential of Druid is a problem in standar too, i've exposed the biggest highroll case.
But in standar druid can get a full board with 2/2 minions on turn 1 or cast Guardian Animals.
Blizzard should get better power tests for new cards, 0 mana cards and ramp spells are dangerous, and Lightning Bloom are both.
By The Holy Light!
Surprisingly fun. It's not a flawless meta (obviously) but there's a lot of variety...or at least there's a lot of possibilities (even if most of them aren't really that competitive)
It feels a bit like Rastakhan's Rumble. There'S your basic top tier decks that are rather annoying to play against, but there's a whole sea of tier 3 decks that are definitely playable and have their own strengths and weaknesses thanks to a good cardpool. The meta is also relatiely diverse (for now) so even if your decks suck against one or two classes you're not gonna run into them exclusively.
Also there are no legit OTK decks so value control is always an option.
I personally have a lot of fun experimenting with really stupid ideas at the moment. I spend almost 10k dust on Hunter and Druid stuff to meme a bit (I now own every HUnter legendary of the Standard cycle...i don't think that's a good thing)
I tried having fun once.
It was awful.
So far I'm enjoying Quest Spells Mage and Battlecry Quest Shaman, both which feel pretty viable! At least...at the low low tiers I'm starting at.
By the way I really like what they've done with the ranked tiers. Do floors exist anymore?
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Floors exist at 5 and 10 of each tier. You get notified when you cross a floor because it pops up and adds stuff to your end of season chest.
I'm pushing for legend in Wild with spell damage Mage, glad to hear your enjoying it!
It's not great, it's not terrible... just solid.
The new problem which occurred is that the meta is becoming face race. Nobody trades, including me. Which is sad, because trade aspect of the design is very important for this game. Face decks make the meta diverse for now, but we can expect raise of anti-aggro decks, soon. Like Enrage Warrior. For some reason, that obnoxious Druid hasn't been recovered yet. It sure will, eventually. GA is a meta warping card.
But... this is all fine. The worst thing in HS currently is the newest iteration of Priest. It's not good (I win 63% of the time vs. them this season), but a single match-up against it ruins my day, makes me quit. Those are non-games. Complete nonsense. You just play whatever, because there's no any reasoning behind anything, maybe you win in the end, maybe not... It's never because of your decision, though. The better your decisions and cards are the worse are your chances to win. Good plays are never rewarded. Awful experience.
The revamp of Priest is a complete failure, imo. It's impossible to go back from this gen/yoink garbage, because they printed so much of it and obviously think that direction is fine. The only hope is if they obliterate Galakrond. There are numerous ways to design win-strats for a class, but they still went for yoink, obviously to feed toxicity of sadist players. No other sane reason why would they continuously design such strats instead of some others.
Haha. "new" problem. Face decks have existed since card games were invented.
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So I just realized there are a bunch of Adventure cards you can't craft....are there any complete Adventures or specific wings that are worth purchasing?
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The Galakronds Awakening Adventure has cards that are worth getting.
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Galakrond%27s_Awakening
The warrior cards from this adventure have seen play since it launched, especially since the weapon synergy cards with Corsair Cache and Cutting class were printed.
Mage got the Reno Jackson hero card that's used in their highlander and "no minion" deck lists
There's quite a number of good cards in this set imo.
Yea I was mostly prompted by realizing how useful Reno would be in certain matchups (cough...Druid, Libram Paladin).
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Same feeling here. I hated so much the RNG fiesta in HS (I started just after the closed beta)... The last 3 years, I tried different card games and found LoR very player-friendly. I jumped in and almost stop HS entirely.
However, I just got bored after 6-8 months. I love many of the mechanics (spell mana reserve is just a great idea, etc.) but somehow LoR just feels/taste stale. Perhaps this is because I am not a LoL player... So weird to see a well-rounded game engine, yet to see it became so un-attractive so fast.
It surprises me to say that LoR made me appreciate that RnG is in the HS DNA and actually what it gives its spice and its bubbles. Granted it is sometimes annoying but better to be sometimes annoyed than bored. It is a game after all.
The good thing from LoR is that it forces Blizzard to innovate and also to review down its monetization (while still nicely profitable) the last 12 months or so (let's hope that the battle pass will be better player-friendly than the oops "test-announcement" we have seen).
For this alone, I wish LoR (and will keep playing a bit of it) a very long life ;)
Exactly my same thoughts! I wish Runeterra started you with more health - having a 40 card deck and 20 starting health with no overheal/armor makes it very draw dependent (moreso than HS in my opinion) and favors aggro decks. .
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Short answer is No. Long answer is Yes
What do you guys think are the safe/must craft legendaries? For example, is DQ Alexstraza still good post-nerf?
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DQ Alex is a difficult one to call. It's still playable, without question, but rotates next rotation. It's not as good as Zephrs, so I'd craft that before Alex if you haven't already got it.
If you play/enjoy wild, obviously rotation is less of an issue, and it's still played in any highlander wild decks, most obviously Priest, which is T1 at the moment I believe. It's good, but not gamebreaking.
As for which ones to craft, thats difficult, as I'm not aware of any "universal" legendaries in the current rotation, that appear in most decks the way Zilliax did. The closest is Siamat, but his playrate seems to have dropped off a cliff.
What decks are you looking at?
Control or midrange decks preferably. So far I've tried (what I could make of) Spells Mage, Res Priest, and Galakrond Quest Shaman.
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Surprisingly, there's nothing really safe / must currently. Arguably, we have only a few legendaries that are staple across several decks and are they even safe long-term? Actually, the power of current legendaries is big, but many are for one deck only, or they play important support / supplementary roles. I'll try to list the most prominent legendaries for each class:
DH: Altruis the Outcast is free. Kayn Sunfury is very prominent, but both current archetypes can still win a lot without him. Soulciologist Malicia is quite important, but she constructs only one deck with unpredictable future.
Druid: Ysera, Unleashed, but she's of no use if you don't supplement her with other stuff like Speaker Gidra or Forest Warden Omu... which are support or niche cards. And if Blizzard gets suddenly tired of ramp Druid, Ysera could easily be forgotten.
Hunter: Zixor, Apex Predator is a top legendary, but every time the meta becomes too fast Highlander Hunter may decrease in power. The same is with Dinotamer Brann. Actually, the most useful Hunter card across the board is Dragonbane. This one you can jam in Face Hunter and the card generally has a very high drawn win-rate in any deck.
Mage: When I look at Mage legendaries they are all good, but used here and there in various archetypes. Still Astromancer Solarian seems the most useful and his power is proven by now. Jandice Barov is another thumbs up, especially because she's played in Rogue as well, in the most decks there. Good pile of stats and tempo, but can easily be cut in some future metas. Highlander Mage play many different legendaries, but currently Bomb Warrior is keeping it at bay a bit. The Amazing Reno is a crucial card there (+ in fringe archetype Spell Mage). The thing about Highlander Mage is that you need 70% of Mage legendaries regardless of the power. Ras Frostwhisper is fine there and in Cyclone Mage, but the future is still uncertain.
Paladin: ...is the major example how his legendaries don't define archetypes, but only supplement them. If you cut one of these: Murgur Murgurgle, High Abbess Alura or Lady Liadrin; it wouldn't be the worst deck ever. Of course, including most of those raises the overall power of a Paladin deck. And the question is how much power you want. If you go for Liadrin, why not get Alura, too? Why stop halfway?
Priest: ...is full of ugly garbage. But to operate as Priest you need to include all that garbage. In the end, it's all about stealing good cards from other classes. Soul Mirror and Murozond the Infinite stand out from the rest. If they nuke Galakrond, the Unspeakable in future, which I sincerely hope, these cards can become useless.
Rogue: Flik Skyshiv and Heistbaron Togwaggle were staple for the whole year, until now. Galakrond Rogue is currently shit, so these cards see much less play. Flik is still fine, tho. As said before, Jandice Barov is commonly played in most decks. Infiltrator Lilian and Shadowjeweler Hanar are great cards but it's impossible to proclaim them as -the must- or safe.
Shaman: ...is garbage.
Warlock: Kanrethad Ebonlocke is the only noticeable legendary here, and not staple, nor insanely powerful.
Warrior: Ancharrr; this one is really staple and will be unless they change pirate tags on some cards. ...If you play Bomb Warrior, no way doing it without Blastmaster Boom. Bomb Warrior is very strong but so easily counterable by meta. Deathwing, Mad Aspect - a great card for any Warrior, but of course, replaceable. Lord Barov, a great addition to Warrior decks, but not deck defining. You can without it, but you'll lose several win-rate percentages, for sure.
Neutrals: Zephrys the Great, this annoying dude is a top power card. Still played, although the power of highlander decks decreased noticeably. Kronx Dragonhoof - the major support for Galakrond decks, but only Priest Galakrond is still standing, still untouched. Siamat staple in slow and highlander decks for a long time, much less now, tho. Dragonqueen Alexstrasza was nerfed and now only sees play in Highlander Mage. Not staple anymore, I'm afraid.
Of course, there are many other legendaries which see play, but these are in the spotlight, right now. And... craft decks not cards.
To me, I can sadly say that Heartstone feels more and more like a chore to play. I actually really like the new legendary cards they introduced and it seems to be going into a much healthier meta but I think that until they rotate out the extremely stupid amount of random generation cards/ discover I will never be able to actually say I have fun with the game.
To be more clear: I get that discover and even random effects are fun to play sometimes and can actually help the meta feel more fresh I find myself more often than not unable to figure out most of my opponent's cards when I am playing the game. I remember how around the time kobolds and catacombs came out every single game felt winnable if you knew your deck's strengths and you were smart enough to figure out the resources in your opponents hand. Nowadays, no matter how hard I try to figure out what to do every single turn can get ruined because of a random board clear from a randomly generated lackey from a randomly generated beast. Whenever that happens it drains me of all of my enjoyment from the game and just feels like an utter waste of time to even try to think about the cards you are playing and it becomes a competition about who can pull more cards out of their ass.
Thankfully the hearthstone team actually addressed that some time ago and said that this is probably the most value generation there will ever be in standard.
Battlegrounds is also a huge disappointment because of the utter rubbish decision of hiding pretty valuable game options after a paywall. I think that is the most bullshit blizzard tried so far with Hearthstone. When it comes to the gameplay, it's a mixed bag. If you don't give Blizzard the 2500g to get the full hero pool you will always be at a small disadvantage compared to those that buy the pass. Matches last a very short time and are very reliant on luck if you want to actually get in top 4. The rewards are also laughable. For a game mode a lot more pricey than Arena it definitely doesn't give you anything to compensate for that if you actually decide to grind for the required gold to have a fair footing against the other people that bought the perks.
Arena is alright, I don't play it much since I am free to play and I can't afford the 150 g requirement always but I have tried it a bit and I enjoyed it maybe even more than standard since it makes me feel a lot more fulfilled for being decent at the game.
Overall: I think hearthstone is definitely getting better. Last expansion when they launched DH and made rogue generate all the lackeys in the world I was the closest to giving up on the game forever but nowdays things are starting to get a bit more enjoyable again with even legendary cards like Rattlegore being playable. I think that you should probably come back and give it a try now if you really itch to give it a go but I would actually recommend coming back when the next rotation happens since I think that will make things feel a hell of a lot better. Who knows, maybe Galakrond will get the Genn and Baku treatment and we will have a lot less random into the game .
That's interesting you say that...I feel like I'm catching on to BG pretty quickly, even with the disadvantage of only getting 2 heroes to choose from. I feel like I"m close to getting above a 50% WR (top 4). It seems like...luck plays a huge part at first glance but there's a lot of nuance to when to level/roll/hero power with different heroes that I have a lot to learn and improve upon still.
Having said all that, it's a very refreshing change of pace to ladder!
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