Hearthstone is unplayable right now

Getting Lunacy Mage every game...

And if you're not matched against that then it's Secret Libram Paladin, Control Warlock, or Celestial Druid 

I could just play those decks but it gets boring for me.

The problem is the sheer brute power of Mage and Paladin. I tried Priest against mage, was like 21 life and he was getting to end of his deck, Imhad taunts but the he got randomWyrm Weaver, drew the rest of his deck (who thought draw two cards for free card is good idea?) freezed my board and next turn killed my taunts and fiňished me with two 12/2Mana Wyrms. This are the moments of complete frustration. When will Blizzard learn the negatives of mana cheats and free draws? 

I agree with you, however there is one solution.

Face Hunter

Yes, for real

It absolutely decimates Lunacy Mage and does decently against Paladin.

I'm not saying that these classes don't need to get nerfed severely, but until that happens you can always....make them suffer.

I'm sorry, but i haven't play standard in a while. What's so good about lunacy mage? Isn't that a deck with random spells? Please enlighten me.

Quote From Vandaren

I'm sorry, but i haven't play standard in a while. What's so good about lunacy mage? Isn't that a deck with random spells? Please enlighten me.

0 mana draw 2 in the form of Refreshing Spring Water. With cards like Incanter's Flow, there's a good chance this card even gives you mana while drawing.

And a much smaller spell pool, which is incidentally of high value, like Nagrand Slam, Skull of Gul'dan, Expendable Performers, etc. Not to mention that there's already a good number of cards that already synergizes with this kind of deck like Font of Power and Apexis Blast.

Basically, lunacy mage is incredibly consistent right now. Its not unusual to face one that basically drew 2/3s of its deck while battering you with constant high value cards. Drawn win rate is off the charts at around 70%, as compared with the other cards in the deck.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

I agree with you, however there is one solution.

Face Hunter

Yes, for real

It absolutely decimates Lunacy Mage and does decently against Paladin.

 

I'm not saying that these classes don't need to get nerfed severely, but until that happens you can always....make them suffer.

Thats why I am playing Burn Shaman lol, it destroys mage, is a bit worse against libram pally though, but I haven't lost to many of those. 

I have no problem with Paladin, but I think Mage is so annoying. You're pit against these cards that were cost a certain amount for the sake of balance. Nagrand Slam costs 10 for a reason, and that reason is mostly that it shouldn't be played on turn 7.

If the deck does get nerfed, I hope they continue with their current way of balancing and nerf with a scalpel and not a chainsaw. A small nerf to Deck of Lunacy like making the transformed spells only cost 2 less or only transform spells into ones that cost 2 more that keep their original costs could be enough. If it isn't, they can always rebalance it in another patch. 

I really dislike the deck, but I am completely against the idea that any card or deck should be gutted into being entirely unviable. I feel like there must be a way to reduce the power level of the deck without ruining it for the people that enjoy playing it.

Oh, I just got a very funny way to nerf Deck of Lunacy. Be really lunatic and for the transformed spells use the whole pool of spell, even wild ones. This will dillute the pool of good spells.

Well, it seems like i'm not missing anything from not playing in the last week. I only played day 1 and it was okay but i'm into other games right now and i decided to wait and see what was going to happen. If Lunacy Mage is on the top then i'm definitely not playing until it gets nerfed. I already disliked that load of bs but it only got better with the rotation, it seems. And Secret Paladin was going to become a problem anyway. That weapon is completely disgusting and the secrets aren't bad anymore. There's no downside to it.

It's definitely gonna be nerfed as soon as this week. It's the first week of an expansion and my friends list is dead. I'm guessing they got tired of the Deck of Lunacy meta already, which is unusual. 

I've tinkered a bit with the deck myself only because I have Deck of Lunacy and the deck itself is pretty cheap, so why not. It's incredibly powerful. I went 20-16 with it, but there was a point when I won 10 straight games and most of my losses were to other Lunacy Mages who were just luckier than me with their draws and highrolls. 

And that's the most frustrating thing about that deck: it's powerful yet very random. There's really no gameplay or planning involved between two players; either one who draws Deck of Lunacy first probably wins, and opponents facing the deck have no way of knowing what to expect once that card is played, so it turns in a clown fiesta. It's bad for ladder when a card that's obviously meant to be a meme is dictating the meta right now, and no wonder people are pissed. It got boring to play after a while because of the randomness. 

I've decided to check the matchup winrates on HSreplay, and Lunacy Mage only has negative winrates against 5 decks:

-Face Hunter

-Poison Rogue (lol)

-Secret Rogue

-Secret Paladin

-Libram Paladin

This means the only decks that have a chance to beat it semi consistently are either completely offensive aggro decks that just run on burn and take advantage of the fact that Mage has to ramp early and can't be that proactive, and Paladin which is equally broken and has the ability to just snowball onto the board ridiculously early (and I wouldn't be surprised if Oh My Yogg! boasts an abnormally high winrate when triggered in that matchup.)

Basically in order to beat Mage you have to be completlely aggro/burn focussed (with a priority for direct damage instead of using minions unless you're Paladin). Board focussed decks can't outpressure it and control decks can't outvalue it.

Initially I thought that maybe gutting Deck of Lunacy will be enough to just make it a playable deck with good and bad matchups, but now I'm not even sure that works. The amount of ressource generation and burn damage is just absurd. I feel like Apexis Blast and Font of Power need to be weakened in some form just because of how efficient they are (Spring Water seems a bit strong, but considering that the archetype was effectively worthless before it was released i'd rather they just curb the average power level instead of nerfing it back into obscurity by gutting the one card that gives them some amount of consistency)

I played a few games with Lunacy, out of curiosity. It felt like playing a tavern brawl. Every game I think I'm going to lose and then suddenly tables turn in the end game in some ridiculous way. Won all of the games, and honestly I didn't feel good about it at all. I had so little control of what was happening. 

It was okay when it wasn't popular, I get that some people like those decks and it's cool, but imagine watching tournament where all pros bring Lunacy. A bit too much "fun".

Really, for me, my brain is reserved only for arena, the rest I just meme and don't care. Don't have any motivation for laddering anymore.

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Initially I thought that maybe gutting Deck of Lunacy will be enough to just make it a playable deck with good and bad matchups, but now I'm not even sure that works. The amount of ressource generation and burn damage is just absurd. I feel like Apexis Blast and Font of Power need to be weakened in some form just because of how efficient they are (Spring Water seems a bit strong, but considering that the archetype was effectively worthless before it was released i'd rather they just curb the average power level instead of nerfing it back into obscurity by gutting the one card that gives them some amount of consistency)

The issue with these two generating spells is, that all bad minions were removed from standard, so there is basically no bad outcome for Apexis Blast or Font of Power

Quote From Alfi

Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

Initially I thought that maybe gutting Deck of Lunacy will be enough to just make it a playable deck with good and bad matchups, but now I'm not even sure that works. The amount of ressource generation and burn damage is just absurd. I feel like Apexis Blast and Font of Power need to be weakened in some form just because of how efficient they are (Spring Water seems a bit strong, but considering that the archetype was effectively worthless before it was released i'd rather they just curb the average power level instead of nerfing it back into obscurity by gutting the one card that gives them some amount of consistency)

The issue with these two generating spells is, that all bad minions were removed from standard, so there is basically no bad outcome for Apexis Blast or Font of Power

There is one bad outcome for Apexis Blast, which is Jandice Barov. Font of POwer though is  ridiculous and can carry the game by itself.

I feel like increasing the mana cost for both could be a fix. Alternatively you could make Apexis Blast summon a 4-drop but I feel like that would make it basically worthless (or at least wouldn't justify building your entire deck around).

The thing is, on paper, I have no issue with the archetype by itself. I spent the last two months playing Spell damage Mage which is similarly a very draw-heavy burn deck that relies on setting up early and then yeeting your opponent before they can stabilize....but right now it just feels bizarre how much long-term value the deck can generate for absolutely no downside.

If we take out Lunacy completely you still have a deck that draws exceptionally well while containing a base amount of 26 direct burn damage (+ double Mask of C'thun) as well as a decent package of single target and AoE removal and, at this point, the best circumstances to run C'thun which represents yet another finisher, meaning outlasting the damage isn't an option....which then means the only real option is to aggro them down (which works quite well at the moment and will be even better once they can't randomly generate outs with Deck of Lunacy).

I'm pretty sure if we render Spring Water useless or make it "fair" alongside removing Deck of Lunacy the deck goes back to being a tier 3 meme deck that relies on highrolling their spell ramp spells in the early game or forever playing from behind. I really think the main problem is just how absurdly efficient Font and Blast (and by extension also Runed Orb) are now that the random pool has been cleaned up and since that is unlikely to change unless they aim to release a large number of garbage spells and minions in future sets the cost of these cards (and all future cards with similar design for any class) need to be reevaluated.

Refreshing Spring Water --> 5 mana

Font of Power --> 2 mana

Deck of Lunacy --> Transform spells in your deck into random* ones that cost (1) more.

There's no need to change Apexis Blast. These other nerfs would fix the problem.

*The word "random" should have appeared on the original card for the sake of accuracy and consistency.

Agreed, burn shaman was working really well against lunacy mage for me a couple days ago. Felt very competitive, even favored. I climbed to diamond 4 with an achievement (nature spell damage) focused deck 

What agries me the most, is Blizz talked a lot about cost reduction and how it's no good for the game, and then they print a lot of Libram support and a lot of spell cost reduction for Mage.

I have the theory they want Standard to be annoying to make people play Classic. It's working with me at least.

Mind sharing a Burn Shaman deck?

Quote From FortyDust

Refreshing Spring Water --> 5 mana

Font of Power --> 2 mana

Deck of Lunacy --> Transform spells in your deck into random* ones that cost (1) more.

There's no need to change Apexis Blast. These other nerfs would fix the problem.

 

*The word "random" should have appeared on the original card for the sake of accuracy and consistency.

The problem is the 5 drop pool is soo insane right now and Mage has multiple ways of doing damage to face aside from apexis

This is the burn shaman deck I was using on ladder. Climbed from Gold(?) to Diamond 4 with it. It's the same list from the article that was on the HS home page on the site - one of the "Top Pro Decks" ones from 3 days ago.

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/25497-hunteraces-burn-shaman

I used a similar list a few days ago. Worked quite good, but I only made a few test games and there weren't so many Paladins and Mages.

Quote From linkinboy0

What agries me the most, is Blizz talked a lot about cost reduction and how it's no good for the game, and then they print a lot of Libram support and a lot of spell cost reduction for Mage.

 

I have the theory they want Standard to be annoying to make people play Classic. It's working with me at least.

I don't think that would make a lot of sense from a business perspective. Once you've collected all the Classic cards, you'll have no reason to spend money. They always have and always will want Standard to be the main game mode played by most players. Their real goal is to make Standard slightly too hard and disappointing to play with just the Core set, so that players are incentivized to buy expansion cards.

As for the mana cost reduction that is still too present in the game, I'm as confused as you are. I, too, remember them saying mana cheating has been a big problem in the past. In Iksar's recent AMA, he acknowledged that the power level got way out of control in the Year of the Raven, and I think he has to know that mana cheating was a huge part of that.