Blizzard has announced that Kripparrian and RegisKillbin are giving up their spots in the upcoming Crossroads Inn-vitational event. Two women, Luna and Avelline, are now invited, taking over their seats. In addition to this update, Blizzard commits to having more women represented in events going forward and states that they move is "one piece" of their future plans when it comes to diversity and inclusion.
Quote From @PlayHearthstone We have two new participants for the Crossroads Inn-vitational! Welcome @lunaloveee8 and @AvellineHS to the roster, and a huge thanks to Kripp and RegisKillbin for graciously offering their slots.
Why we’re doing this: representation and inclusion matter, and we’re committing ourselves to being better. It’s vital that our events represent the reality of the Hearthstone community made up of numerous talented and deserving women who dedicate themselves to the game every day.
In order to commit ourselves to doing better in the future, every community event’s invitees will have a greater representation of women moving forward. This is only one piece of our future plans around diversity and inclusion.
To the women of the Hearthstone community: thank you, and know that we will live up to this through our actions.
Why Did This Happen?
Many notable women in the community have begun to speak up about the way they have been mistreated, the lack of representation in women in Hearthstone events, and Blizzard's unwillingness to make changes. We are going to link and quote some experiences down below, but this should not be considered a complete record of the problems that hurt women in gaming.
Slysssa uploaded a video discussing the overall issues with tournaments and the representation of women in Hearthstone. It is a great listen and introduction to some of the issues.
Quote From Sunglitters When I read one more time how great the Hearthstone community is I'll lose my mind. Pathra gone, Hafu gone, most women I talk to having terrible experiences and are close to quitting. Having to justify your existence/skill every single day based on your identity is not great.
Representation is so important for the overall health of the community.
This was last year in June, 1/20 women, last second Slysssa got in because they needed a replacement. Look at how well she is doing since then.
I love Hearthstone and my core community that I've built with my stream, but the overall community is quite awful. Hope we can make it better somehow in the future. Was watching Hafu recently and she talked about it a little bit.
2/26 [women] [Darkmoon Duelfest]
I really don't want to come off as salty but this is exactly what we all talked about one year ago and nothing has changed really. It's frustrating not to be heard and see all your friends not getting recognized for all the work that they put in _despite_ all the bullshit.
The reason why I started playing Hearthstone was Hafu, I've followed her since I saw her play WoW Arena at Blizzcon.
Pretty sure @Slysssa started with HS because of @Alliestrasza.
Imagine how many women would feel empowered to play the game or start competing when we SEE MORE.
Quote From Alkali Layke I would strongly recommend that the @PlayHearthstone publicity team make a statement about representation in the game before it seems too late (ahem some history there).
Even something simple like "You've spoken and we HEAR YOU. We are currently making efforts to do better"
I mean am I wrong here? Don't worry…I can handle people disagreeing with me. It light of recent events (cough cough) I would just think that they'd respond sooner to SO MANY people speaking up about an issue.
And I'm SO AFRAID to speak up. My hands literally shake everytime I write a tweet about it. I'm afraid of losing connections I've made with the HS team. Afraid they might not ever work with me. But I'm doing it… because it's simply the right thing to do.
Quote From Cora I've never told this story, and I won't be saying any names because I do believe the person at the heart of this story isn't a bad person, but this still bothers me and maybe it will provide a little context on the conversations that are happening right now. Idk.
A little over a year ago, a friend of mine in the community reached out with screenshots from a discord channel where prominent community members had said awful things about myself and other women. This was not a single event, but something that spanned across years.
It was as recent as when I was hired onto the Hearthstone design team. One person in particular seemed to drive a lot of the conversation, and was saying things about how he couldn't imagine why I would be hired over him.
This person reached out to me to apologize before I was ever sent the screenshots from my friend. They didn't say what they were apologizing for, only that they had said some things a long time ago and felt guilty about it.
And they were only apologizing in the first place because they had been informed that I would be receiving these screenshots, and I was now in a position of power that could potentially affect their career.
Now, after receiving the screenshots I saw that it was not, in fact, a long time ago. It started a long time ago, and continued until, at that point, as recent as a few months ago. It had gone on for years, and clearly this person that I thought I was cool with, resented me.
I have a thick skin. I can't count the number of times I was called fat or stupid by twitch chat over 4 years. But it's different when it's somebody that you know and respect mocking and criticizing you and other women for no apparent reason.
The realization that it wasn't just faceless trolls and assholes really hurt. And I had to turn around and forgive this person, because I didn't want to ruin the career they had built. But they had no respect for my career. They clearly didn't give a shit about how hard I worked.
And it's not just this one person, and it's not just me being disrespected and hurt. It's a cycle of toxic bullshit that women like @jiadee_ and @snglttrs and @Slysssa have dealt with every day they've existed in this community. Speaking out is not an easy thing to do.
I wasn't strong enough to stick around in a high visibility role anymore. It was too much for my personal health and well-being. And I feel guilty that I threw in the flag when so many women in the community looked up to me.
But there are many others who are fantastic role models. If you've been listening to the conversation and trying to understand, that's awesome. The women speaking out are eloquent and ballsy as hell (looking at you Sun). Thank you for listening to what they have to say.
And don't be dicks in a public discord, dummies.
Quote From Jia 1/15 My take on women’s representation in gaming.
This thread is operating under the belief that all genders inherently have the same capacity to excel in gaming & that the current disparity comes from external factors. If you disagree with that, pls just keep scrolling.
2/ I think a lot of misunderstanding on the topic of representation comes from whether you see it as an end goal OR a solution to a problem hindering an end goal. I see it as the latter, the end goal being what (I hope) we all want: equal opportunity in all spaces within gaming.
3/ The problem is toxicity toward women. This is my umbrella term for the verbal abuse & belittlement women receive on the basis of sex that men only get on the basis of skill, if at all. It also includes the sexual harassment we’re disproportionately subjected to. Better exp:
https://twitter.com/Maddynf/status/1382056144420675584
4/ That toxicity is a small part of a much broader sexism present in most societies, but I’ll only focus on how it manifests in gaming spaces. This is how I see the negative feedback cycle in my head. (Prob even more negative effects I didn’t cover, sorry)
5/ The central problem 1 leads to symptoms 2-4. In a perfect world anybody would feel welcome in any community they like. Hell if I know if a perfect world would actually have a 50-50 split, but to me that’s not important. The problem is whether it’s 50% or 10% of all women
6/ who’d potentially want to join a gaming space (esports, streaming, game dev, etc), if any of them face unpunished toxicity, then it’s not equal opportunity. Plenty of talented women have left games bc of this, and who knows how many more were too discouraged to even start.
7/ It’s just so vicious. Toxicity also discourages the men that do believe in gender equality [3], which makes us feel like no one cares. Fewer women [2a] means fewer women who outperform men [2b], which then fuels the narrative of [1] that women are naturally worse at games.
8/ How do you fix toxicity? We’ve been trying for decades and the pace of improvement has been abysmal. While better moderation and swifter bans help a bit, imo it takes an entire shift in culture. How do you change a culture? Representation. [2a]
9/ Seeing someone like yourself kick ass does wonders for those looking to join the scene. But even more than that, giving a platform to people actively fighting toxicity rather than staying quiet bc status quo is convenient for them, is simply the right thing to do.
10/ Sexists feel like they can get away with what they do and say because they think they’re majority; or that the majority don’t care enough to call them out. When you make the very people they put down visible, you send the message that it’s sexists that are unwelcome.
11/ Now, I get that it feels counterintuitive to the end goal of equal opportunity to advocate specific inclusions with gender in mind. I concede that this is an imperfect solution, but the only other alternative I hear being proposed is “wait for things to organically improve”.
12/ And to that I ask, how long? We literally had a woman world champion in Hearthstone, and people still won’t shut up about how women less logical or competitive than men. Dunno about you but if there’s something we can do about that now, I think we should.
13/ So now, exactly how much is “more” representation? What is enough could mean 20% to someone, 50% to another. It’s the kind of question we can’t answer w/o empirical data but there’s nothing to go off of, so why not at least try different numbers & compare response?
14/ While we don’t have that kind of info yet, I think it helps to reflect. How many women need to be in your discord server before you kick the guy calling them thots? How many more women need to be in your chat before you ban the guy telling them to go back to the kitchen?
15/15 How many more women need to be on your Twitter feed recalling their worst experiences before you truly start to hold your friends accountable? It’s probably different for everyone, and it *shouldn’t* take this much. But it does, so here’s one more.
Quote From Avelline As a very proud person I never felt like talking about this in public, or letting people know that their bullying could get to me. Whenever I was bullied or mistreated I would just talk back, ban and block people thinking I was getting rid of the toxicity but the truth is I was just turning a blind eye to it. Coming from an insanely toxic local community I've faced a lot of vulgar comments, disrespect and personal attacks. It wasn’t just randoms or viewers but players and streamers as well. Some were straight out hateful and vulgar to me like calling me a prostitute and threatening to send people to rape me (that person was only suspended for a week after bullying other players and streamers as well and is still playing and competing). Most of them treated me with disingenuous politeness, and then behind my back would say things to undermine my achievements and act as if I didn't deserve any recognition. I’m not a person that is willing to tolerate being disrespected just to make fake friends or to have people like me more. As a result, I never made more than 1 or 2 friends in the local community, and eventually decided to close that door entirely and start streaming in English.
What I want to make clear here is that I never, ever asked for special treatment because I’m a woman. I never competed in female only tournaments, I always went where I saw the highest level of competition even if I wasn’t good enough yet. The only goal that ever appealed to me was competing with the best and the only way I wanted to reach that point was through hard work. Ever since I started streaming in English, and became involved in the international HS community, I've felt able to truly enjoy the game I love and the grind that goes with it. I qualified for and competed in multiple masters tours, had very satisfying ladder results and made good friends who treat me as a fellow competitor and not ‘’a woman".
I can’t really tell you girls that face similar shit what exactly you can do. Stay strong, stay proud and focus on working hard towards your goals. Recognition and respect will come from worthy people. And those who will never respect you are hopeless anyways.
Regis' Statement
Quote From RegisKillbin To get right into it:
I want more creators to get a spotlight in Hearthstone, so I volunteered to withdraw from the upcoming Inn-vitational event, and will be reducing my involvement in future events that have more competitive elements.
Now for the context: I want gaming to be a joyful experience that brings us all together, yet so many in our community use it as a weapon to tear people down and tear people apart. I’ve been appalled by the comments I see from people playing our game. Some seem to think the tavern is only big enough for them, using bigotry and malice to turn people away. I want to help open the tavern doors even wider and encourage more people to come have a drink and play a game of cards.
So this week when all the conversations about representation started, I realized I had already taken too long to act. There are a diverse array of creators working to grow their communities and establish stable careers, and I don’t want to get in their way, especially for events that have prize pools based on performance in the game.
For a while now, I’ve been feeling guilty about being involved in seemingly everything in Hearthstone. When you’re growing your audience and still finding a footing financially as a creator, it feels impossible to turn down opportunities, so of course I welcomed all the cool stuff I got to do at first. I’m super thankful to have had those chances to grow. But after the career side of it begins to stabilize, suddenly it feels like you’re taking opportunities from others when you don’t really need them.
So there are a few reasons I’m giving up my spot:
I want more people to get opportunities and spotlights.
I am not trying to showcase my skills or build my audience off being great at the game. These events are a great springboard for people who are trying to do that.
I am lucky enough to have super supportive viewers and a stable financial situation. Prize pools in these events are enormous and can provide smaller creators with tons of time and resources to reinvest into their content.
I’m not that good at the game and worry I will embarrass myself on the biggest stages. (this is only sort of a joke)
There are some people saying I and others “deserve” to be invited to these events due to our marketing value and audiences we bring. I certainly acknowledge I have one of the larger YouTube viewer counts in our game, and sure, those numbers do probably warrant invitations based on promotional value alone. So perhaps it is understandable, but I’m not sure it is ideal. If we spread the love and get more people involved, won’t that help the game find fresh and bigger audiences? Won’t I benefit if the game grows? In other words, it’s not much of a sacrifice to make if the game and community are better for it.
All of that said, please don't put any pressure on other creators who are not able to do the same, nor send any hate to those taking my place. I'm no hero here, just stupidly lucky enough to have such a supportive community that I can afford to do this, both financially and from a growth and content standpoint. So please don't celebrate this gesture, instead celebrate the creators getting their time.
Thanks much for reading, and I look forward to seeing you in the tavern!
-Regis
A few follow-up thoughts I couldn't squeeze into a single page.
Originally I just wanted other people to be involved, I can't claim that I had the foresight to think about it as a representation issue. That conversation this week just made me think about it in new ways and kick-started this decision.
I will still do events, but I will aim to limit myself to those that are less competitive and more promotional (tournaments vs theorycrafting, for instance) because that's where I think I best serve the game and my audience.
For how this worked, I made an offer to Blizzard to withdraw last week on April 15th. I didn't want to force their hand, as I had made an agreement to participate. After some discussion on their end, they decided to accept the offer.
I don't want people to celebrate this action. I always get nervous for these events anyway, in some ways it's a relief. Sure there's a financial downside, but I recognize there's also a social upside. This is a case where the right thing and a self-serving thing aligned perfectly.
There may be those who wonder why I'd ever give an advantage to "competition" when I'm running a business. It has crossed my mind. But at the end of the day, I think a rising tide raises all ships. And I welcome the challenge to float.
No one should ever feel like they can't be a part of the community. As a whole, Hearthstone needs to be more inclusive and we need to rid ourselves of the assholes who push people out. It's good to see that change is starting to happen, but this never should have been needed in the first place.
It's a small victory but if Blizzard does as they say and will stay on this track, it'll be a huge positive for the whole community going forward.
If you have nothing nice to say, no one on Out of Cards wants to see it.
Comments
I'd rather watch a literal potato rope for an hour than watch Kripp joylessly sulk his way through a game, so I'm extra happy for this.
Particularly because this is an exhibition event, a more diverse and representative group of players seems like a no-brainer. It's such a basic idea that it should've been done ages ago.
For one, you appeal to more people, and therefore a bigger market. For every gamerboi who actually refuses to watch, there's going to be at least one Avelline/Luna Stan, plus X, where X is a nonzero sum of people that are watching because women are playing.
For two, you model a better, bigger society by having more representation. More people involved and excited? Awesome! We'll have better content. And wait, if there's better content, Blizzard makes more money. Which means more support for the game.
If all it takes changing the demographics of who participates in exhibition events to slowly improve the overall quality of the game (obviously there's more to it, and more to do) then what possible legitimate reason is there to be opposed?
TLDR: Kripp is boring, better representation is good.
Ignoring that one incident, it's nice to see how civil this comment section is for the most part. This is definitely one reason why I love being part of this community and being a writer for the site.
Glad to see more representation! I personally really appreciated Jia's bit aswell. Representation matters because it allows more people to have a rolemodel who is like them, which in turn gets more people to play the game, and want to compete in it. It helps normalize that games are for everyone. And will hopefuly help stop some of the toxicity. But more importantly is speaking up when people are spreading their vile in various chats. Also good on Kripp and Regis for giving up their spots. At the end of the day it is money for them, so I can imagine it being hard for everyone to give up their place.
I do want to say I appreciate the community here that flux and everyone really helped create, these are, sadly, controversial topics and I have noticed that most people approach it in a very good way.
Last but not least. This apparantly needs to be said: Freedom of Speech, protects you against the government, not from consquences that private organisations or people impose on you.
User was banned for this post.
The more I see transgenders, gays, african americans, female activists and such occupy some place (especially it is annoying in entertainment, like movies, games, literature nominations and such) just because they are transgenders, gays, african americans, female activists, the more I hate them. I was a very neutral person to minorities before these things started to happen by force from these minorities. But now I hate them. Imagine reshooting Peter Pan and Alice in wonderland with african americans in main roles, English queen Ann Bolein as an african american. Reserving a place for african american in every movie, just because there must be a place for him (no matter what the actual plot is). Screw this shit!
Thank gods we live in Russia and not affected by this bullshit (by now)
Edit 1. So now, reading all these comments from females about little women representaion in gaming industry... it just evokes the reverse effect they want to make. Now I just want to go to grandmasters chat and tell Jia to go to kitchen after I've read her comments on the topic. Beforehand I was willing to write about her nice casting.
Edit 2. To make things clear. I'm working in an educational organization. There are ~40 people working here. And there are only 3 men (including me). All the leadership positions are occupied by women. And I'm not crying over the internet that it is unfair or it is a discrimination yada yada yada
It's for proliferating attitudes like these I feel ashamed for my country.
To anyone wondering, things are changing, and have a lot of supporters, but we are lagging behind for various reasons.
So in your logic, minorities and women should hide from public eye otherwise they deserve to be hated? You feel lucky living in Russia PROBABLY because you're not one of the minorities and could enjoy privileges at the expense of minorities. One well-established fact is that Russia makes life HELL for LGBT and ethic minorities. Minorities gain no representation in Russia not because there's no "political correctness bullshit", but because it's politically correct there to oppress minorities.
Cya later!
i am shocked.
this Cancel culture is everywhere and admins of this site ban a member for speaking out his opinion.
he is a russian(i am not) he has other mentallaty and other values and you ban him for reaching out his opinion?
this topic makes me very sad...
yes woman should treated well but they cry out so loud until they get what they want like little babies.
Kripp and regis for sure give the seats to them only because they cry.
My english is not so good because of that i cant say much other than this is wrong and we dont give babies a lollipop only why it cries.
giving the little child that cries everytime what he wants is not healthy and like this we should handle this and every topic: Nerfs, trans, Woman.
Woman have so much more rights and oportunities as men have but noone cares about that.
You can ban me too for this but i stand for freedom of speech what you guys and the whole Movement of womens does is ignoring and blocking counter opinions because they think there opinion is the true and only one ! and no its not! there are more than one right opinion!
and this socialism that gets more and more attention is wrong and cuts our freedom! PPl we need to stand up dont let the Socialists win!
https://xkcd.com/1357/
Freedom of speech doesn't exist on privately run websites!
You're wrong.
Alright, now you're banned. Please don't come back.
It's okay that you ban me, I will never come back and I will use the other website which is better.
But on the subject
allow me one last text:
What bothers me extremely is that "your" site never gives arguments, you always say women have less rights, women are treated badly.
Where is the evidence? these are all subjective statements.
Just like my statements, but with a difference.
I can prove to you with evidence that women, because they look good, get certain jobs easier than the average white man. Women have it easier as streamers.
YES women have it harder when it comes to promotions, when it comes to getting into the really good positions. But they have other privileges.
Why do people become trans? Why do men who seem to be doing so much better decide to become trans and become a woman?
Because women obviously enjoy certain privileges that some weak men are jealous of. So they become a woman to have a better life.
For example, women are allowed to wear all kinds of clothes - pants, skirts, dresses, everything.
Men are more limited in that respect.
Women get as said easier jobs like secretary, waiter, cashier in supermarket, office worker
Women have it easier in so many areas. Of course also in many areas more difficult. So is the world so is the life. Why should we change that with force?
It is just foreseeable that women will continue until we are oppressed or until all people in the world are women.
we must not let this happen!
Just because you yell so loud and ban everyone who doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean we aren't there and it doesn't mean you are right!
And in the majority you are not at all!
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
[Weak men decide to become trans because women have privileges that they're jealous of.]
I don't know where to begin with this...
You don't because thats feeding the troll.
If its a better website why were you ever here? Cya
I as an example lost on a job interest against a Woman with a Child because she was hot. the Boss of that corporation said it to me...
Womans cry and cry but they dont see their values and their privileges. and that makes me angry!
and if you look into
companies you ever see at least 1 super hot woman.And thats why she is the best? no its because she is hot.
and a better man lost because of her his job.
We had 10 000 years of humanity and womans have rights since 80 years and everything since then goes bad.. why you cant see this?
let them be in the kitchen and get childrens and raise them. thats all what womans are for!
Disgraceful opinion and attitude towards women. Shameful, go educate yourself.
I see your true colors shining through!
I see your true colors, and that's why they banned you ^^
I agree that as the owner of the website you have full rights to ban people whenever you want, but...
What is the purpose of comment sections at all, if people are allowed to post only subjectively "right" comments, and are afraid to get banned just for sharing subjectively "wrong" thoughts?
Moreover, this is not a political site. I personally see outof.cards as one of the best Hearthstone-related sites. Since articles with controversial topics not directly related to gameplay bring waves of unwanted comments, I'd suggest disabling comment sections for such articles by default.
Not disabling comments is great because it allows us to figure out who we don't want in the community.
Right now, you're seriously trying to defend the person who discriminates against "transgenders, gays, african americans, female"? I don't care what part of the world you live in. If you want to access this website, you need to be more inline with how we think today and not how we thought a few decades ago.
I'd be banned if I went to a Russian message board and stated I supported gay marriage.
I'd be banned if I went to a Chinese message board and stated their dear leader looked like Winnie the Pooh or how black lives matter.
I'd be kidnapped if I went to a North Korean message board and talked about what real daily life is like.
The inverse happens here. You want to play ball on the North American court? You best be familiar with what we believe to be true and not step on our toes.
Ultimately though, no one is being banned for wrong thoughts, people are being banned for being assholes. There is a huge difference there.
If you want to bash people, this isn't the site to do it and we don't want you here.