Update: PC Gamer's reveal has been moved to 6 hours after the reveal stream on Monday.
Blizzard has removed their remaining card reveals leading up to the reveal stream. This was somewhat expected considering we saw Blizzard's reveals yesterday removed due to ongoing public disappointment in the company following the California lawsuit against them for discrimination and sexual harassment in the workplace.
The removal of Blizzard's own reveals also comes with a few notable community members cancelling their planned reveals. Alliestrasza, Lt. Eddy, and Trump all cancelled their United in Stormwind card reveals after the news broke. This has caused disruption in the card reveal season and with that, more of a spotlight on the lawsuit within the community.
As of posting, there are 5 community card reveals still planned and the final reveal stream appears to be still taking place at the end, though it should be noted they have moved the stream up a day, it now takes place on Monday rather than Tuesday. You can follow along with the card reveal countdown updates over on our United in Stormwind Card Reveal Schedule.
Everyone, before you comment on the situation I'd like to remind you all that we need to keep things civil. I know I don't need to really need to make that comment because the community we've created here on Out of Cards is generally positive, but even we do occasionally have bad actors that appear and you've previously seen us ban folks with bad takes. While there are certainly some frustrations to be had, put things into perspective here; The community missing a few card reveals, delaying them until the card dump, is nothing compared to the discrimination and sexual harassment that has taken place at Activision Blizzard.
Comparing the two is disgusting behaviour and does not belong in our community on Out of Cards and certainly does not belong in the greater Hearthstone and gaming communities. Seeing disgusting comments made on the situation on other websites and seeing them not moderated is those owners continuing to support this hatred and is beyond awful to see.
There is no reason to harass anyone over the lawsuit. No one deserves to be harassed because they are continuing to work at Blizzard, creating content for Blizzard games, or continuing to enjoy Blizzard games. Anyone's continued practice of interacting with the company in any of does not equal standing with Blizzard. Not everyone is in a situation where they can afford to leave their positions purely based on principal and that does not make them a lesser person.
Listen to folks and let their stories by heard. Let the courts take care of Activision Blizzard.
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Comments
Tough position for Flux and the team.
Hard to support a company that is now known for being ground zero of racism, sexism, and harassment. It isn't just them as this behaviour is wide-spread in the gaming community.
I ignored all of that when I played WoW. Ignored that mods didn't take any action against players who repeatedly made terrible comments in local.
I can't ignore it anymore. It is hard to ignore with how bad it is.
Really well said, Flux.
Good, I don't watch the solo reveals anyway.
While i can understand, completely aggree with canceling reveal season and stand with people who stands against this disgusting thing, I really don't understand why people acts like its the company's fault.
I mean, Some people mentions here and around web that they will cancel their payments, pre-purchase etc. in order to support the stand against this kind of stuff and it really feels dumb to me to be honest. This is not the company's fault and it is only on some disgusting people that has done this and I'm almost sure of that Blizzard will do anything to punish them by their side and cancelling the reveal season proves that a bit. They simply think like content creators as how Coriolis mention;
People shouldn't try to punish blizzard for that in my opinion. If the company won't do anything against it, That is the time for punishment for company in my opinion.
In the law system of my country, companies are liable for whatever their employees do that is against the law - as long as the managers and such were aware of it or took actions that supported the wrongdoings (including failure to act). Basically, it's called complicity and the company will have to pay a fine directly proportional to the severity of the crime, while the people who knew or did the stuff face penal charges.
Probably in the US law system it's something similar (even though it's completely different from the one i know).
Just wanted to explain why companies are liable for what their employees do - it's the law :)
From a moral/philosophical point of view, any company, through its board of directors/etc, is the only one able to combat certain crimes within itself. Imagine not having an HR department to complain to for harassment, or them not doing anything. It's the higher-ups that can do something about it.
It's either that or the justice system will take action against the company (because as an employee you have no say in how the company is run or organised, nor should you!) => loss of money through a huge fine and a chance to even forcefully close it if its sole purpose became to commit crimes. The loss in PR is also huge, which means even more lost revenue. That's why companies SHOULD take action and solve these issues internally.
Monetary punishment is the only thing that large corporations respond to. If Blizzard isn't punished, then abuse by higher-ups will continue. Besides, even the CEO of Blizzard Bobby Kotick has a history of sexual abuse. I think that is very indicative of the company itself.
Edit: Went to double-check, and it was sexual harassment, not sexual abuse.
Eh, you might want to read up on this case: Blizzard is being sued precisely because the company was aware of abuse and didn't take appropriate action for many years.
My main question is: was anyone of Team 5 part of that macho shit?
I do not care about other Blizzard games and I really do not give a shit about Activision.
IMO we need the list of dickheads who was part of that disgusting behaviour, I mean list of initials and games they belonging to.
Then we will know more and can do some decisions.
Honestly, the response from Act/Blizz was so reactive, it was like the 'frat boy' wrote it as a personal defence. "State bureaucrats are to blame" How tone-deaf and unsupportive of the victims. I'm glad many content creators have spoken up in support of victims of such disgusting behaviour. Cultural change at Act/Blizz needs to go all the way to the top. I agree with Flux regarding Team 5's decision to pull the reveals, from what I read and view of the team they are inclusive and considered.
So just for clarification, nobody on the Hearthstone team is accused of anything right?
To our knowledge, no one from the Hearthstone team has been implicated. I don’t believe that the published information is clear about identifying everyone, and it’s hard to believe that there is NO cultural bleed between teams, so who knows what the truth is.
What little we’ve seen so far from the HS team does seem reassuring. The major figures are making strong statements that say the right things. That may seem like the bare minimum, but it’s hard to speak out when your company is facing legal action. Either their management is allowing them to make these statements, or they care too much about the issue to be silenced. Also, putting off the card reveals was done in solidarity with community figures and signaled that the community should feel free to speak out on this without repercussion.
Those actions could be a cynical public relations act, sure. But compared to the pissy, immature statement that Blizzard corporate put out, it does seem like this team understands the issue and at least knows how to conduct themselves.
(Seriously, can you believe that statement? I had trouble believing a multi-billion dollar company could have a culture as toxic as California described, until I saw Blizzard’s response. We may not have seen proof of the allegations yet, but we’ve already been shown that the people running Blizzard truly are dumb and entitled.)
In short, right now I’m giving Hearthstone the benefit of the doubt. I’ll definitely be listening for any stories that come out now, and I’ll be willing to believe them if I do start hearing more bad stories.
Their statement was pretty shocking indeed. Tightening policies and sending people to training are empty gestures if HR continues to let harassers get away with it. I was not surprised to see these used as excuses; Ubisoft did the same. What did surprise me was the tone: they're not even willing to consider that these allegations might be true, instead acting all insulted. That's not the attitude of a company that wants to improve.
While sexual harassment is despicable, this assuming people are guilty before proven innocent has to stop. These are ALLEGATIONS, not proven facts. To assume these allegations are true just because someone said so is how we have a country where almost half the population believe in various versions of “alternative facts.” This is especially true considering numerous examples of prosecutorial overreach we’ve seen. Let’s wait for the court case to play out before jumping to conclusions just because the accusations fit someone’s preconceived notion of a fratty video game developer
The state doesn't sue a company over unconfirmed allegations. For it to reach this far this is an exceeding amount of evidence. Prosecutors won't take up big profile cases they don't believe they can win. This isn't a handful of small lawsuits, it's a massive problem with every woman on the staff filing complaints. This goes far beyond he said/she said. The reasoning for making up massive charges makes no logical sense and is just a tone deaf attempt to defend the undefendable.
Yes, but this is not a twitlong or a blogpost. This is a two years investigation by the state agency. I get your stance, but workplace harassment is not rare. Being outraged is the least we can do to make a change.
That misses the point. Nothing has been proven in a court of law. Until it has been proven we need to assume that the defendants are not guilty. Thats how it is done in the USA where the court case is being heard.
For those that have downvoted this post. Remember, this case is being tried in a court of law, not the court of public opinion. In a court of law what you think is true must be proven to be a fact. Until then your opinion is worth diddly squat.
That's a misunderstanding of what the presumption of innocence is.
The state is required to presume innocence. The state cannot arbitrarily declare guilt, but must prove it for the state to take any punitive actions.
For individuals to react, there is no legal or constitutional need to presume innocence.
Example, you witness your friend Bob get punched in the face by James Earl Jones. You are under no obligation to wait for there to be a declaration of guilt to say to other people "I saw James Earl Jones punch my friend." The people you tell can say "James Earl Jones punched this dude's friend." People can and will decide whether they believe that based on your credibility and the perceived character of James Earl Jones. At no point in there is anyone required to presume innocence.
Bob files charges. The state must presume innocence. They have to be able to prove it was James Earl Jones, that it was assault, etc. They can't say "this one person's word is good enough for me."
But people, individuals, can and must.
That is the most backward way of thinking I have read in quite some time. It looks to be a prime example of someone who thinks they know something, when in fact they know nothing.
Perhaps "must" is too strong. But "can" certainly applies. We can believe victims, and we, as citizens, are not obligated to give the presumption of innocence to anyone in how we deal with them.
Let's try another hypothetical.
Your brother steals $20 from your wallet. You know this because you saw him do it. The next day, you tell your friend. In exactly no world is your friend obligated to go "whoah, hold up. We have to presume your brother is innocent. This is only alleged until proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law." -- Just stop for a second and think on that one. Would it make sense in any world for your friend to say that? Is that what you'd expect them to do?
Of course, context matters. Maybe your friend knows your brother was actually out of town at the time. Maybe you have a history of mistakenly thinking people have taken money from your wallet. Those are, of course, possibilities.
Or maybe your brother is well known to be someone who takes $20 from your wallet. It's not the first time he's taken your cash. In fact, other people have accused him of just the same thing.
Your friend needs someone to look after their wallet. They are not in any way obligated to believe that your brother is innocent of all these wallet-snatching shenanigans.
Blizzard-Activision is a big company, and, believe it or not, these kinds of things happen in big companies all the time. There are loads of people who have spoken about these sorts of things across the industry. We know how hostile the gaming community is to women. We know how hostile the gaming community is to race. These are not new pieces of information.
Yes, the court must presume innocence. But we're not the court. We're listening to our friends say that they've been wronged.
Are these people your friends?
Do you know the Wow team personally?
Do you know the defendants and plaintiffs?