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Hearthstone | Posted by | 3 years, 10 months ago
Fan Creations

Ensemble Cast - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

Competition Theme: Ensemble Cast

I'm sick of Pirate Warrior and Mech Mage - let's see a little more diversity in our decklists!

  • You must create a card which encourages you to run multiple spell schools or minion types in the same deck

Demonxz95 wants us to get as many spell schools and minion types in our decks as we can - one for all, not all for one!

As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

Competition Phases

Here are the phases of this card design competition

  • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 16 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 21 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 21 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 22 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 22 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
  • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

Discussion Thread Rules

No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Competition Theme: Ensemble Cast

    I'm sick of Pirate Warrior and Mech Mage - let's see a little more diversity in our decklists!

    • You must create a card which encourages you to run multiple spell schools or minion types in the same deck

    Demonxz95 wants us to get as many spell schools and minion types in our decks as we can - one for all, not all for one!

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.

    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 16 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 21 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 21 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 22 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 22 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 23 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

  • Multiple type synergies, here we go!

    I do realize Animal Caretaker doesn't have the perfect "3" theming with the +2/+2 bonus instead of a +3/+3 one, but balance comes first I say.

    Friendly Staff

  • This week I have two common cards, which is quite unusual for me. Let me know if you like them or if you prefer more complex effects.

    Edit: just realized Marine Biologist might not be qualified because it doesn't need you to run the specific minion types. I might rework it tomorrow because I really like the flavor.

    Meanwhile, I added Mur'gul Servants, which references the fact that Mur'guls (a sort of twisted Murlocs) were the worker units for Nagas in Warcraft 3.

  • The Zealous Zoologist can be an early play to simply draw a minion, but in a deck with a few focused tribal minions, like Queen Azshara or Snowfall Guardian, she can be relied upon to tutor for them. The power of a 2/2/3 with a tutored-draw is balanced IMO by the fact that, later on in the game, the Battlecry might whiff completely.

    Friendly

  • Might be too OP, but who knows. Realistically this would be a mage staple but it's a worse [Hearthstone Card (Wild Fire) Not Found] for them. It could give reason for other classes to use strange spells like Whirlpool in priest.

    • linkblade91 - Seems a bit scary at how good it is for tutoring honestly. But it's a decent idea.
    • Wailor - Yeah, i think it's too simple and weak to get any love, but i honestly like the idea. Maybe if it did something other than just gain stats.
    • Demonxz95 - I don't like the caretaker because it feels too similar/derivative of Menagerie Magician. And Tisha... Divine Spirit. That's just the top of my head but i'm sure most buffs would be too good.

  • Hi everyone,

    Grim IncantationsGift of N'Zoth

    Grim Incantations - A payoff for multi-school / hand warlock, that usually has a decent spread of fel, fire and shadow spells. Might give a boost to the agony-warlock deck that has some middling success, discovering extra curses and rewarding you for using control tools.

    Gift of N'Zoth - I think this is more of a crowd-pleaser with the N'Zoth theme/mechanic, giving some support to the aggro-shadow priest but requiring it to turn into a menagerie deck. Could be a powerful way to close out games.

     

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Demonxz95 - I like the concept of caretaker best. Rewarding paladins for going wide with minion types is something we havent seen much of. Some room i think to make it less restrictive - eg. give your minions +1/+1 for each of your minion types. might need number tweaking though.

    Wailor - I like Erudite of Duality the most. Though I'm not sure I like an only +Attack buff in priest, even for shadow themes, thats a personal preference though.

    linkblade91 - A nice clean design with interesting decisionmaking. I think its good to go.

    BasilAnguis - The biggest issue I see here is Quest hunter. Otherwise, its probably too cheap for the effect as a neutral, and a bit weird to have a legendary without a proper name - making it an epic at a higher cost/statline should be fine as the 2nd copy would either do nothing or refresh your hero power.

    AeroJulwin - This is a hard one to judge as it would likely be a tech card, but it is rather flexible. Useable in control decks like warrior that currently run 3-5 different types, or in tempo decks that might want to do the same - but sometimes a dead card based on matchup. I think overall the balance is probably ok.

    • Quote From Arkasaur

      Gift of N'Zoth

      Turn one coin + Amalgam of the Deep, turn two Gift of N'Zoth to give it +10/+10? How it work with amalgams? Also warrior was corrupted with Y'Shaarj power and has menagerie support... a lot of flavor. Just saying.

  • A loose idea. It was pretty difficult to actually think of what effect to use to meet the criteria, but I think going for Spitelash Siren route went well enough.

  • Changed it to an epic with slightly bad stats. I also had a second idea which is more a meme but hell, why not? Axes and Swords we have plenty, hammers less so for warrior. But still enough to complete the requirement (The Unstoppable Force, Supercollider, Blacksmithing Hammer, Sulfuras, etc.)

    • AeroJulwin - Not bad, effect is pretty nice. However i fail to see the flavor connection.
    • Arkasaur - Grim Incantations is cool, though on the weaker side i'd say. Compare to Twisted Knowledge. True that one also discovers minions but it could be argued that's a good thing rather than bad. At best your card will discover 3 spells (fire, fel and shadow), so for Standard maybe it's enough. Gift of N'Zoth is better imo but R raises a correct issue. I'd say given how Tent Trasher works with amalgams that it would only count for 1 tribe per amalgam, and it always selects one you haven't played yet. Kinda like a Joker at poker. Also, very kinky art :P

  • Two new variations of the Marine Biologist. I really like the flavor, but I'm not sure if it's interesting enough from a gameplay perspective. Let me know if you prefer it over my other two cards.

    Also, I'll try giving feedback later. This is a pretty busy week for me (I'm looking for a flat to rent, so I have very limited spare time)

  • I think one thing to keep in mind for balance reasons is not necessarily counting the amount of types of minions you've played this game; playing an amalgam on turn 3 shouldn't immediately buff all your "improved by types of minions you've played" to 10. Realistically, it should be worded "for each minion you've played of a different type this game" or "each unique minion type you've played this game"

    • Quote From Dolphinslayer

      I think one thing to keep in mind for balance reasons is not necessarily counting the amount of types of minions you've played this game; playing an amalgam on turn 3 shouldn't immediately buff all your "improved by types of minions you've played" to 10. Realistically, it should be worded "for each minion you've played of a different type this game" or "each unique minion type you've played this game"

      I believe All technically counts as its own type specifically for this purpose, just that it works to satisfy any different type condition in the game. In the case of caring about minion types, minions with the All type just fill-in for any one type rather than counting as each different one all at once.

      Some examples of this interaction include:

      • Tent Trasher won't reduce its Cost to 0, but instead just costs 1 less as normal. The Amalgam is just filling in for one minion type that isn't currently there.
      • N'Zoth, God of the Deep just resurrects it once and counts it as many minion type that isn't there. It doesn't count as all of them. Otherwise, all you'd just to do is just play one Amalgam and N'Zoth would resurrect it six times.
      • Effects like Menagerie Magician and Ringmaster's Baton will only buff a minion one time. If you have an Amalgam on board or hand as your only minion there, it won't buff it for each different minion type to buff. It just fills in for one that isn't there meaning that it would only receive one buff, and not three.
      • Effects like The Curator or Ringmaster Whatley won't stop drawing if it draws an Amalgam first, but instead that Amalgam just fills in for one type you haven't drawn yet regardless of what it is.
      • Using Amalgam of the Deep's Battlecry on another Amalgam of the Deep won't make you Discover one minion of every type, but instead it just lets you Discover one minion of any type.

      So in the case of card effects like "for each minion type you've played this game", an All minion won't immediately count as every type but it just fills in for one type you don't have. We don't have any All spells in the game yet (though we probably will get one some day), but when we do, I think it's also safe to assume that it won't make Multicaster draw several cards alone, but just that your All spell will count as one type you haven't played yet.

      Friendly Staff

      • Oh, interesting! Didn't realize it worked that way, I was kind of thinking about it from the perspective of how it would be treated in MTG. That's good info, and that makes sense.

  • Two initial ideas to support arhcetypes that never really panned out. Not 100% sold on the Bronzescale effect since it sort of anti-synergizes with Murloc battlecries, but its still a neat archetype that barely got explored. Darkmoon Menagerie Warrior saw some experimentation, but never really came to fruition. Stats on Security might be a bit too large atm considering you could reasonably play 2-3 different minion types by turn 4-5, so it might need to be tuned down.

  • I finally managed to write some feedback:

    Demonxz95
    I think I prefer Tisha Darkblight, but she seems a bit OP (especially the Holy effect). I'd probably move her to 4 or 5 Mana, adjusting the stats accordingly.

    About Animal Caretaker, I think I'd move her to a class with more tribes in their core identity, like Shaman (which has Totems, Elementals and Murlocs). Finally, that name doesn't feel very appropriate for a Paladin card, but this isn't too important.

    linkblade91
    I like how it makes you deckbuild very carefully, but I'd still think this is too strong: she can give you a ton of card advantage in the best case scenario, and since her effect says play and not draw, you will almost always reach it if you play her on curve without making much sacrifices. I'd probably go with a 4/4/4 statline or something similar to make her more nuanced and less OP if played on curve.

    BasilAnguis
    I'd like to see weapon types added at some point, but I don't think True Collector would work until that point.

    Class Trainer is fine, but I prefer the legendary version, because it's an effect you only need to trigger once. I'd make two changes to her, though:

    - Give her vanilla stats. The effect is very strong, but has a pretty hard requirement even for classes like Mage or Shaman.

    - Give her a name. I mean, instead of The Class Trainer, something like Class Trainer Mariah or Class Trainer Lana, for instance.

    AeroJulwin
    A card that could very well exist in the game, but I the effect isn't very flashy and it isn't very flavorful, either.

    Arkasaur
    Both are good, but I prefer Gift of N'zoth. I'm pretty sure it interacts with Amalgams like Demon said, so it's not an issue in that regard. As a minor coment, I'd definitely put it in the Darkmoon set.

    Neoguli
    I really like the effect, one of my favorites so far.

    As a minor comment, I think you should change the name, as I believe Council implies several people (with a member of the council being a councilman or councilwoman). So I'd go with something like Moonforest Warden (or whichever title you prefer instead of Warden).

    BloodMefist
    I really like Darkmoon Security. If you're afraid of the stats, you could always make it a 2/3.

    Fin-friendly Bronzescale, on the other hand, doesn't speak to me, but I don't know why.

  • For my first wave of feedback.

    Wailor

    Erudite of Duality is a pretty competent Common card. The Holy/Shadow flavor doesn't seem too apparent on the artwork itself, but I think the card itself works pretty well enough.

    Your first version of Marine Biologist I'm going to have to rule out unfortunately. Your second and third versions however fit the prompt quite nicely and are both pretty solid cards.

    Mur'gul Servants is a pretty nice flavor blend of the "watery" minion types, although Warlock doesn't have access to a lot of Nagas so it would probably be too difficult to build something really good out of it.

    Linkblade91
    I like it. Pretty simple and sweet. Now that same people raise that it might be too strong, I feel like it might be, but I still like the card quite a bit.

    BasilAnguis

    I guess The Class Trainer is okay? I'm not really too sure how to evaluate it. The classes that seem to be able to cast 3 different spell schools the easiest similarly don't get that much of a benefit from actually upgrading their Hero Power. Mage for instance can just Wildfire and cut out the middle-man entirely. I do also agree with what others have said about the name.

    Class Trainer I don't really like because there's not much benefit for a second copy of a card that upgrades your Hero Power outside of refreshing it or just being more likely to draw the card.

    True Collector will be disqualified, so I would avoid it. Even if it weren't though, I don't like the fact that it's a spell card that only has a conditional effect since spells aren't designed this way.

    AeroJulwin
    I think the effect is pretty neat, but I feel the same way that others are about the flavor.

    Arkasaur

    Grim Incantations is pretty sweet.

    Gift of N'Zoth is a cool effect, but I'm not sure how well it really works/fits in Priest since Priest is generally one of the least tribe-centric classes in the game. I do think it's a pretty solid idea and the art is really nice. Don't worry about R's comment because that's not how it would work. An Amalgam would just count as one tribe you haven't played yet (per my comment above).

    Neoguli
    I assume the "switch to Nature" is also meant to switch the spells that trigger the draw to Arcane. If so, then that could probably be communicated on the card a bit better, but I think the card is solid.

    BloodMefist

    Fin-Friendly Bronzescale is kinda hilarious. I do like the fact that the Battlecry plays into the Deathrattle, although I do worry that trying to fuse Murloc and Dragon gameplans together tends to not really work since both tribes tend to play in opposite ways. I think the name is also a bit weird.

    Darkmoon Security is totally Berth, and I don't understand why they never made him into a Legendary card. I really like the effect, although I do think it's a bit weird to have both it and Barricade in the same set.

    Friendly Staff

  • Well, I tryed hard to come up with something more creative, but my mind is kinda messy and loud this week. So, thoughts?

  • Made the small adjustments that you guys suggested. Now it should be of better wording, and also she's now a Warden. Also to @MrRhapsody - don't submit Thermal Shocker, because I fully intent on submitting Moonforest Warden, and us having basically identical cards in terms of effect and even stats would sound suspicious.

    • Quote From Neoguli

      Made the small adjustments that you guys suggested. Now it should be of better wording, and also she's now a Warden. Also to @MrRhapsody - don't submit Thermal Shocker, because I fully intent on submitting Moonforest Warden, and us having basically identical cards in terms of effect and even stats would sound suspicious.

      Thanks for the heads up, didn't took a look at the discussion before posting, my bad. So, ignore my previous cards, here's a new version a Thermal Shocker wich I think looks a lot better. Also, feedback tomorow on my day off.

  • Admittedly, I kinda just looked at what art I had previously saved. I did however think a gladiator makes sense. They could face all kinds of creatures in the arena. Wild beasts, smaller drakes, perhaps even untamable elementals and low-level demons, or pirates who have been given an opportunity to fight for their freedom. All to entertain the masses. I do agree the current art is a bit too undead, so I'll look for something more fitting.

    I may have underestimated how easy it is to play multiple minion types. Should I remove the initial 1 damage on the battlecry?

    Feedback

    Demonxz95
    I like Tisha Darkblight better. I do agree with the Cost being too low.

    Animal Caretaker I also a nice card, but I'm afraid the large requirement on the battlecry makes it a little less likeable. It's a big hit-or-miss.

    Wailor
    Erudite of Duality isn't my favorite because Hearthstone always feels a little hesitant when it comes to minions with sheer stats that can easily be played on-curve.

    I don't like the second version of Marine Biologist either, because it could still work fine in a deck with only a single of the three types. I do very much like its third version.

    Naga + Murloc seems like a tough combo, since Naga are very spell-centered while generally you'd want to have as many Murlocs(=minions) in your deck as possible.

    linkblade91
    I like how this works in menagerie decks. My concern is its ability to cheat out specific minions in other decks, in which case I agree its Cost is too low.

    BasilAnguis
    True Collector probably doesn't qualify. And I agree The Class Trainer could use vanilla stats.

    Arkasaur
    I think I like Grim Incantations a little better. I do think spells should have an effect without requirements. May I recommend the same effect I used for my card? (Trigger the effect once guaranteed, repeat for each school/type)

    Neoguli
    Solid card, not much to add.

    BloodMeFist
    I prefer Darkmoon Security. It's always fun to summon extra copies of your minions and it synergizes well with handbuffs. Fin-friendly Bronzescale is very interesting, but it encourages you too only include a handful of Murlocs to make sure you always summon ones with high stats or Deathrattles. It's all fun and games until they release a Murloc Giant.

    MrRhapsody
    I don't think the requirement is nearly enough to justify a 3-Cost upgraded Blizzard, but I do think Thermal Shocker has a lot of potential. Showmaster Thisley is also quite cheap at only 5 Mana.

  • I'll bump up the Zealous Zoologist to 3/3/3; hopefully that's good?

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    MrRhapsody - I agree with AeroJulwin: the condition seems easy for a 3/3/3 with an upgraded Blizzard effect, especially when Flurry (Rank 1) exists in the same Year and is used in basically every deck. It's a neat idea, though, with interesting art.

    Neoguli - Seems good to go. I didn't think it needed to be more wordy, but if other people prefer it that's fine.

    BloodMefist - I like the idea of the Bronzescale, but it seems a little wonky right now. It's more interesting than the Warrior card, too; I would continue to explore it.

    Wailor - The Epic version of Marine Biologist is interesting, but I don't know how practical it is to have all three of those types in your deck simultaneously. The Rare version seems more likely to be used, in my opinion; I'd go with that one.

    BasilAnguis - The weapon card is neat, but it's not okay for this comp. Class Trainer is better, certainly, but some will frown on a "one time effect" on a card you could run multiples of, if-only because the second copy is kind of useless. Your Legendary is the best option, so I'd go with that one (after you give them a name).

    Arkasaur - Gift of N'Zoth is cool; I like that one more. Grim Incantations is too niche in my opinion.

    AeroJulwin - I like the idea of the Gladiator who gets better based on how many minion types they've defeated/sparred with. I don't feel it's well represented, unfortunately, but maybe it's the art that's messing with the message. I agree with trying to find another image.

    Demonxz95 - Animal Caretaker seems like a win-more scenario: if you manage to fulfill the condition you're likely winning the board already. I agree with the others in-that Tisha's combination with certain buffs could be a problem.

    Friendly

  • @AeroJulwin About the rare version of the Marine Biologist, I was assuming he would only show you two options if you run two types, or simply draw a card if you only run one. Thus, you can use it in a mono type deck, but you'd lose flexibility. I think it's best suited for a mono type deck that runs one (or both) of the other types, like a Naga deck with Slimescale Diver and a Colossal Beast or (in Wild) a Murloc deck with Gentle Megasaur. This way, you can always get your tech/finisher cards, while still making sure the Battlecry always does something.

    MrRhapsody
    I like your card, specially the name, but I think it should only target minions if it doesn't make the text too small.

    AeroJulwin
    I didn't think of the connection between gladiator and multi-type, but now that you explained it, makes sense. However, as it's not very obvious, you could double down and rename the card as Gladiator of N'zoth, which would also fit the artwork pretty well IMO.

    I also like the change of not having an initial 1 damage.

    linkblade91
    I prefer the new statline you proposed.

  • Quote From Wailor

    @AeroJulwin About the rare version of the Marine Biologist, I was assuming he would only show you two options if you run two types, or simply draw a card if you only run one. Thus, you can use it in a mono type deck, but you'd lose flexibility.

    Right, not sure what I was thinking. Both are good options then, but I see the Rare version doing better. It makes for more interesting deckbuilding.

  • Not that mage needed the help with quest line completion, but having minions to interact with is better than playing solitaire I feel

  • Tisha Darkblight seems to be the more favored of my two cards. I have bumped it from a 3 mana 2/3 to a 4 mana 3/4.

    MrRhapsody

    Thermal Shocker is definitely my favorite of the two cards, although I think I agree about the condition being quite easy for a strong effect. It doesn't seem too egregiously strong compared to Lightmaw Netherdrake, but it's definitely strong.

    Showmaster Thisley seems easy to abuse, especially at only 5 mana, but I do like the idea you have.

    Linkblade91
    3 mana 3/3 Zealous Zoologist seems pretty good to me.

    Friendly Staff

  • If you haven't already, you have less than a day to submit!

    Friendly

  • Good luck to the finalists!

    Friendly

  • Congratulations to Chegwin!

    Friendly