(Theorycrafting)Classic set buffs

What if Blizzard were to buff the classic set cards the same way they buffed boomsday? I think such thing would be great and freshen up the game for a while longer than buffing an expansion that rotates in a year..

anyway I will suggest the buffs, they are either -1 mana +1 attack or +1 hp, if the card is so bad then -2 mana(like boomsday buffs)

I will choose cards that see no play at all and have space to open up a new archtype.

Druid (technically could buff almost ANY card, but I decided feral druid needs some love)

Savagery 1->0 mana  this card is really bad as is.. at least it should cost less.. also goes well with the next bufff.

Bite  4-> 3 mana this card never saw play (after it got nerfed in beta) druid has worse ramp right now it can be buffed.

Hunter - hunters got a strong classic set so..

King Krush 9-> 8 mana this card was ONLY good cause of [Hearthstone Card (katrena winterwisp) Not Found] otherwise it's terrible, with this buff it's a decent finisher if you can get there.. another suggestion could be +1 attack or even more minor +1 hp. it IS a legendary after all and the worst classic class legendary in that...

Gladiator's Longbow 2->3 durability, this card costs 7 mana! you are overpaying 2 mana over arcanite reaper for being immune which is a 0.5 mana effect looking at Candleshot this weapon has too little durability for how much it costs..

Paladin - not too much to buff here either, some card buffs might be too toxic for the game if buffed.

Lay on Hands - 8->7 mana at least lets you do something else the turn you play it..

Argent Protector 2/2->2/3 can't buff anything else there.. holy wrath is pointless and blessed champion would be too oppressive as a combo piece this card has a 0.5 mana cost effect attached to it.. could be a 2/3 really, great in arena.

Priest - his classic set SUCKS but can't be easily buffed in long term, but I did find 2 cards worthy low risk buffs.

Shadowform 3-> 2 mana hero power change cards cost 2 in other sets this card is fun to use but costs too much also you lose the healing for using it so.. yeah 2 mana.. still probably not playable but it's a fun card.

Holy Fire 6->5 mana could help priest since this card is played sometimes mostly cause of lack of other alternatives.. value wise 5 damage= 3.5 mana, 5 healing =1 mana bundling cost =0.5 good enough.

Rogue - just got nerfed but I got some unrelated archtype buffs.

Kidnapper - 5/3-> 5/4  this card is badly stated for it's cost

Patient Assassin - 1/1-> 1/2 it's a small buff but this guy is never played at all I am not sure though since arena exists.. and rogue is strong there..

Shaman the overload mechanic was underestimated as a drawback back in classic

Lightning Storm 3->2 mana, this card is not even played in shaman control decks, and is mostly a feelsbad when it is.. would rather lower the overload by 1, but I already stated that I would not change the card text.

Forked Lightning 1->0 mana this card is too weak atm

Warlock

Felguard 3->2 mana, if you are destroying one of you mana crystals.. it's better be worth it.. 1 mana "Cheat" for -1 mana the whole game? hell no..

Siphon Soul 6->5 mana overcosted removal, when it was played it was one of the worst cards in warlock..

Warrior

Mortal Strike 4->3 mana it's a fireball if you are meeting the requirement otherwise it's just an ok card

Cruel Taskmaster 2/2-> 3/2 more aggressively stated minion.

Mage

Icicle 2->1 mana worst card in mage, should not cost 2..

[Hearthstone Card (Etheral arcanist) Not Found] 3/3-> 3/4  never played card, easi'ish to counter.

Neutral

Illidan Stormrage 7/5-> 7/6 should be buffed.. I think his text should be more impactful but I can't change it by my own rules.

Arcane Golem 3-> 2 mana if you are giving your opponent a huge upside at least make it worth... was nerfed too hard..

IMO Siphon Soul should be changed otherwise, somehow, or make it cost 4 mana, and heal less: Even warlock really need that removal, but again, IMO.

The other suggeestions are OK, maybe the Lightning Storm should get 1dmg (3-4dmg), instead of cost reducing: It's problem is making the minions at 1 hp, not that you can't play early because of the cost.

While I agree on almost all of those suggest buffs, improving Classic it's something that goes in the opposite direction of having Hall of Fame: as already stated many time by Blizzard, Classic should be good but not too much otherwise each new expansion set's card will see little play because many decks will always run the same 10-15 Classic cards no matter what.

Imho, the cards you mentioned are "bad" for a design choice and for the explicit will of keeping them as an alternative for players missing certain new cards, without being themselves a must have.

Quote From Gerix55

IMO Siphon Soul should be changed otherwise, somehow, or make it cost 4 mana, and heal less: Even warlock really need that removal, but again, IMO.

The other suggeestions are OK, maybe the Lightning Storm should get 1dmg (3-4dmg), instead of cost reducing: It's problem is making the minions at 1 hp, not that you can't play early because of the cost.

I didn't even run that card in even lock spellstone is just so much better, and I was not thinking about wild at all in those buffs since wild is so much powerful than the classic set..

yeah I agree the damage values are what feels bad but I restricted myself to the current buff rules to I would lower the overload by 1, or change as you said, lowering the cost makes it more likely you could totem before you storm so you have that..

I don't really like the idea of buffing classic precisely because these cards are supposed to be evergreen. Having good cards that are always available restricts the design space for new cards, EG Fireball&Frostbolt mean that new mage burn spells generally suck. It also means that new cards see less play because these older cards do the job better.

Classic and basic have been a recurring problem for blizzard (hence the hall of fame), and I wish they'd just bite the bullet on having them rotate out as well. Heck, you could have a rotating roster of old cards that are featured in classic to replace the current system.

I see your points, but I must disagree with some of them.

• Druid: Both changes would be acceptable, but the real change that druids need is the old Wild Growth (I know it is basic). It was needed a nerf to Ultimate Infestation and the lost was made to the core set.
• Hunter: I see King Krush fine. About the Gladiator's Longbow may convert it into a 4/3 (not sure about this one).
• Paladin: They could reduce the cost of Lay on Hands, but not buff the Argent Protector. That card is balanced in effect/stats.
• Priest: Shadowform is a hard one. May a cost reduction with [Hearthstone Card (Vargoth) Not Found] is enough. Sincerely I would like see in new expansions cards that interact with the Shadowform (different effects depending on the form the player is).
• Rogue: Both cards are really bad. Kidnapper needs a cost reduction. At 6 mana with the effect activate by combo it's clearly overcosted. May copy Vilespine Slayer with the Sap effect.
• Shaman: Lightning Storm may change the the overload cost to 1. The 2 damage to all enemy minions could cost 3 as AOE, but the probability of damaging by 3 is the reason to overload the card.
• Warrior: Mortal Strike may do not need a cost reduction. Even the comparison is obvious, mages have the best damage on spells, so it is not enterely equal. May change the requisites to deal 6 damage increasing the lifepoints to 15 (20?). On the other hand Cruel Taskmaster seems like a nice buff. It's different to the case of Argent Protector because in this case even if it's used to push damage or favourable trades, your minion gets more vulnerable.
• Mage: Icicle do not worth the lost of Ice Block (still an epic card).
• Warlock: Siphon Soul is good. It kills a target and give health, and the healing in warlocks should have an extra cost included (Lesser Amethyst Spellstone is not a good example, that is just too good).
• Neutral: Illidan Stormrage could be viable if increase the health, even with a lost of damage (just think about it but as a 5-7). The [Hearthstone Card (Arcanite Golem) Not Found] is a good buff, comparable to Millhouse Manastorm

I mostly agree with your changes, but personally, I would prefer Mass Dispell from Priest being buffed. If it was three or even two mana it would be played, and it would create an interesting situation by forcing players to play around mass dispell when facing a priest. If I were allowed to change card text too I would make it 2 mana and read "Silence all minions. Draw a Card." That way there could be support for Silence Priest that exists in classic

Quote From Vaha

I see your points, but I must disagree with some of them.

 

• Druid: Both changes would be acceptable, but the real change that druids need is the old Wild Growth (I know it is basic). It was needed a nerf to Ultimate Infestation and the lost was made to the core set.
• Hunter: I see King Krush fine. About the Gladiator's Longbow may convert it into a 4/3 (not sure about this one).
• Paladin: They could reduce the cost of Lay on Hands, but not buff the Argent Protector. That card is balanced in effect/stats.
• Priest: Shadowform is a hard one. May a cost reduction with Vargoth is enough. Sincerely I would like see in new expansions cards that interact with the Shadowform (different effects depending on the form the player is).
• Rogue: Both cards are really bad. Kidnapper needs a cost reduction. At 6 mana with the effect activate by combo it's clearly overcosted. May copy Vilespine Slayer with the Sap effect.
• Shaman: Lightning Storm may change the the overload cost to 1. The 2 damage to all enemy minions could cost 3 as AOE, but the probability of damaging by 3 is the reason to overload the card.
• Warrior: Mortal Strike may do not need a cost reduction. Even the comparison is obvious, mages have the best damage on spells, so it is not enterely equal. May change the requisites to deal 6 damage increasing the lifepoints to 15 (20?). On the other hand Cruel Taskmaster seems like a nice buff. It's different to the case of Argent Protector because in this case even if it's used to push damage or favourable trades, your minion gets more vulnerable.
• Mage: Icicle do not worth the lost of Ice Block (still an epic card).
• Warlock: Siphon Soul is good. It kills a target and give health, and the healing in warlocks should have an extra cost included (Lesser Amethyst Spellstone is not a good example, that is just too good).
• Neutral: Illidan Stormrage could be viable if increase the health, even with a lost of damage (just think about it but as a 5-7). The Arcanite Golem is a good buff, comparable to Millhouse Manastorm

 

 

Druid: the card was nerfed for a reason it was always too good and polarize match ups, blizzard won't buff cards they nerfed not so long ago..

Hunter: what's wrong with a 5/3 weapon for 7 it's +4 attack on weapon for 6 mana over Candleshot.. still weak to weapon removal, small taunts, and hp gain , aswell as stillb eing slow for an aggro hunter, that card never saw any play it could really use a serious buff.

Paladin: look at the paladin cards.. there's nothing to buff there that isn't already ok or would be too toxic to buff.. my other option was blessed champion to 4 mana, but do you REALLY want a 3 card combo for 18 damage in paladin? (leeroy + 4 mana blessed champion + blessing of might), it was mostly to not keep paladin without a second buff argent protector saw only play in even paladin and that's cause it's an even card the deck could play.. won't be too broken as a 2/3 in my opinion.

Rogue: I didn't want kidnapper to be too viable the card is annoying.. just that when you DO want to play it the statline is  a bit less awful it's a decent arena card.. wanted to make it a 5/5 at first but arena exists.

Shaman: it's mostly cause of my restriction that I did not suggest lowering the overload cost, that's the logical buff to that feelsbad aoe card in shaman.. although maybe it's better to just buff something else.. since it's a decent card in shaman at least.. just feels bad to run.

Warrior: mortal strike is probably a bad candidate.. cause the card was played in aggressive warrior decks before.. but didn't find anythign else to really buff without affecting control warrior.

Warlock: siphon soul is a weakish card it's run a lot of times for a lack of better option.. it won't be broken at 5.. assassinate is not comparable since assassinate is balanced around a 3 cost reduction prep.

Mage: icicle is in the top 20 worst cards for sure..

Quote From AliRadicali

I don't really like the idea of buffing classic precisely because these cards are supposed to be evergreen. Having good cards that are always available restricts the design space for new cards, EG Fireball&Frostbolt mean that new mage burn spells generally suck. It also means that new cards see less play because these older cards do the job better.

Classic and basic have been a recurring problem for blizzard (hence the hall of fame), and I wish they'd just bite the bullet on having them rotate out as well. Heck, you could have a rotating roster of old cards that are featured in classic to replace the current system.

I see your point that why I restricted myself to only nt so usable cards (those that don't see play currently.. or ever..) and only really small buffs to them to not push them over the top but to a point they suck.. less. this is a follow up to both boomsday buffs (hence the restriction I imposed to the buffs of being only small stat adjustment) and ayala's comment on the posibility of buffing classic cards in the future.

They could buff Nourish and Wild Growth.. pls?

Quote From wendeCZ

They could buff Nourish and Wild Growth.. pls?

Why would blizzard/team 5 buff cards they recently nerfed? 

They will never buff the Classic set in a way that makes all unplayed cards suddenly good (some of the suggested buffs would make them staple cards).

At best, they will touch some key cards, and cover a design hole in the class. eg Holy Nova made fair enough at board clearing, so that they can stop printing broken cards like Mass Hysteria (+ Dragonfire Potion + Psychic Scream etc) every year.

But beyond that, if they ever buff Evergreens, it surely won't be to rejuvenate the set, as it was for Boomsday cards.

King Krush should be buffed to (8) mana. Why?

Because nowaday Krush deals 8 damage for 9 mana, while Leeroy Jenkins + Hero Power deals the same for 7 mana. This says that without beast synergy King Krush is pointless. At (8) mana instead it could be played with the hero power, becoming as strong as a Pyroblast, that isn't crazy strong, and becoming better then the neutral Leeroy, a thing that class legendaries should be.

Quote From Synesthesy

King Krush should be buffed to (8) mana. Why?

Because nowaday Krush deals 8 damage for 9 mana, while Leeroy Jenkins + Hero Power deals the same for 7 mana. This says that without beast synergy King Krush is pointless. At (8) mana instead it could be played with the hero power, becoming as strong as a Pyroblast, that isn't crazy strong, and becoming better then the neutral Leeroy, a thing that class legendaries should be.

 

King Krush is a beast and it has an eight health booty, not to mention not summoning dragon whelps for your opponent. Yes, that might not be relevant right now, but when Big Hunter was a thing Krush saw play in that deck and Leeroy did not.

If anything your comparison just highlights that Leeroy is still too strong as the one consistent finisher card that's played across classes.

I think better than buffs we should have a clear out of completely unused cards like Venture Co. Mercenary Arcane Golem Nat Pagle especially that little shite Millhouse Manastorm and a vast majority of the basic cards.

maybe replace them or add more cards to each expansion

I want to see a buff to Millhouse Manastorm, and Lorewalker Cho

I do not include Nat Pagle because while he is a bad card, the two cards mentioned above are self destructive. it is bad to play these cards not because they are useless, but because they will kill you if you play them, they will help your opponent. all they will do is help to kill you. they are by far the worst legendaries in the game.

Quote From DoubleSummon

Quote From wendeCZ

They could buff Nourish and Wild Growth.. pls?

Why would blizzard/team 5 buff cards they recently nerfed? 

Because I crafted core druid cards like 3 days before the nerfs and I am still mad for the wasted dust?:) (around 4k gone down the drain)

But lesson learned,i did not do the same mistake later with Kingsbane rogue:)

Just to note, I tend to be rather against buffing and still not fully convinced the ones we did were a good idea (I do know I can be wrong: I also said we shouldn't do rotations before we did it), and even if we do as others said the classic set should not be stronger than the expansion set.  IMO Classic should be placeholders or fill spots.  That is, if there's something in the expansion cards that don't cover what your deck needs, the classi set should offer an option, though not as good a replacement to what an expansion would cover.  For example, if you need a good tempo 2 drop, your first aim should be expansion cards, with classic being the "ugg there's no 2 drop, guess I can use this." alternative.  THAT SAID!!..

Druid (technically could buff almost ANY card, but I decided feral druid needs some love)

Savagery 1->0 mana  this card is really bad as is.. at least it should cost less.. also goes well with the next bufff.

I'm actually ok with this one.  It still makes the card horribly niche but once that niche kicks in the card becomes very abusive.  

Bite  4-> 3 mana this card never saw play (after it got nerfed in beta) druid has worse ramp right now it can be buffed.

This also works as it's still really bad this way but offers something usable enough to use when nothing else is available.

Hunter - hunters got a strong classic set so..

King Krush 9-> 8 mana this card was ONLY good cause of katrena winterwisp otherwise it's terrible, with this buff it's a decent finisher if you can get there.. another suggestion could be +1 attack or even more minor +1 hp. it IS a legendary after all and the worst classic class legendary in that...

No to this one.  Katerena has shown that this card CAN be made usable if the right niche kicks in.  Thus it's already at the spot I said Savagery could get into once your buff comes in.  Making it cheaper risks a big time charge beast finisher actually usable on a regular basis.  The 'it's a legendary' argument is falling on deaf ears: legendaries are NOT made to be more powerful than other cards, just more unique and interesting.  Being one of the few big time cards that can charge serve that.  

Gladiator's Longbow 2->3 durability, this card costs 7 mana! you are overpaying 2 mana over arcanite reaper for being immune which is a 0.5 mana effect looking at

Candleshot this weapon has too little durability for how much it costs..

Not sure I'm up for this one.  15 damage is a lot to give to hunter.  Note that Candleshot with 1 damage and 3 durability was broken as crap.  The thought of making a high end weapon in CLASSIC coming remotely close to candleshot in any way is enough to nope out of this one.  

Paladin - not too much to buff here either, some card buffs might be too toxic for the game if buffed.

Lay on Hands - 8->7 mana at least lets you do something else the turn you play it..

Paladins start doing very nasty things once they get reliable card draw, and blizzard loves to give that to them in expansions.  So shrinking the cost seems dangerous.

If anything, I'd up the health boost. Maybe +10 health or even more. Thus instead of being able to rely on tempo it lets you draw while surviving the next attack better.

Argent Protector 2/2->2/3 can't buff anything else there.. holy wrath is pointless and blessed champion would be too oppressive as a combo piece this card has a 0.5 mana cost effect attached to it.. could be a 2/3 really, great in arena.

Similar to card draw, giving paladin good tempo cards is also a VERY dangerous thing.  Best just to leave it alone than try to lock down to a 'MUST buff 2 cards each class to be fair!'   The classes are horribly balanced in their base/classic sets, so it makes sense that they may not need the same buffs on each side.

Priest - his classic set SUCKS but can't be easily buffed in long term, but I did find 2 cards worthy low risk buffs.

Shadowform 3-> 2 mana hero power change cards cost 2 in other sets this card is fun to use but costs too much also you lose the healing for using it so.. yeah 2 mana.. still probably not playable but it's a fun card.

That won't really change anything.  The proble mwith shadowform isn't the cost: I've seen priests try it and they had no problems casting the spell.  The problem is consistency.  A '2 damage a turn' priest needs a different deck from a '2 healing a turn' priest, and you can't be sure when you are getting the spell.

Holy Fire 6->5 mana could help priest since this card is played sometimes mostly cause of lack of other alternatives.. value wise 5 damage= 3.5 mana, 5 healing =1 mana bundling cost =0.5 good enough.

I'm ok with this one.  

Rogue - just got nerfed but I got some unrelated archtype buffs.

Kidnapper - 5/3-> 5/4  this card is badly stated for it's cost

This won't help.  It's 6 mana to sap a minion that requires combo.  That's just no.  

And I'm afraid of making it cheaper because the last thing rogue needs is MORE tempo.

Patient Assassin - 1/1-> 1/2 it's a small buff but this guy is never played at all I am not sure though since arena exists.. and rogue is strong there..

This is technically fine for the assassin, but goes back to "why ARE we buffing Rogue in the first place?"  Blizzard was able to fit in 2 buffs per class in boomsday, but we don't need to stick to that mindlessly.  If a class is already strong enough why force yourself to buffing them?  If you DO want to buff anything on a strong class, aim for cards that won't help them directly but opens up some fun, if less powerful, alternatives.  I can't think of anything fun to do with this one though.

Shaman the overload mechanic was underestimated as a drawback back in classic

Lightning Storm 3->2 mana, this card is not even played in shaman control decks, and is mostly a feelsbad when it is.. would rather lower the overload by 1, but I already stated that I would not change the card text.

Honestly, I would rather find a way to eliminate the randomness, but I can't think of a balanced way to set that.  So 2 mana feels ok enough.

Forked Lightning 1->0 mana this card is too weak atm

I'd kill an overload off of it.  Yes yes, 'don't change the text' you said.  F that.  There's no reason to force that on yourself.  

0 mana makes it VERY dangerous as a synergy card as all 0 mana cards do.  The 2 mana overload meanwhile makes it impossible to use normally.  Normally that means "niche" which is great but 0 mana niche turns OP far too fast (i.e. Auctioneer fodder).  

1 overload makes it usable for overload synergies and make it about as hard to use as the other overload cards shaman tends to use when embracing overload.  

Warlock

Felguard 3->2 mana, if you are destroying one of you mana crystals.. it's better be worth it.. 1 mana "Cheat" for -1 mana the whole game? hell no..

I don't know.  That might make it too strong for zoo decks that rely on cheap cards anyway.  Otherwise it's far too painful at -1 mana.  

I just don't think you can really balance this thing well without completely changing it.

Siphon Soul 6->5 mana overcosted removal, when it was played it was one of the worst cards in warlock..

I'm fine with it costing 6.  I'm feeling that warlock shouldn't have easy to use removal.  It should be PAINFUL to focus on a removal route and spending a lot of mana is painful.  If you want cheap removal, go Rogue or Priest.  

Warrior

Mortal Strike 4->3 mana it's a fireball if you are meeting the requirement otherwise it's just an ok card

Mortal Strike imo is exactly where classic should be.  The card is in that "*sigh* I guess this will work" place.  it should be slightly under balance with expansion cards being ON balance. 

Cruel Taskmaster 2/2-> 3/2 more aggressively stated minion.

That I'm actually fine with.  Unlike paladin, Warrior doesn't go nuts with any old decent aggressive minion (an expansion made of pirate aggression otoh...) and that card is a little tricky to use.  But it DOES open up a bit more that Engra..err the mechanic formally known as Enrage mindset.

Mage

Icicle 2->1 mana worst card in mage, should not cost 2..

Agreed.

Etheral arcanist 3/3-> 3/4  never played card, easi'ish to counter.

NO!   *NO!*

The card does NOT need to be anything close to viable.  When it actually DOES work it's one of those instawin risks and Edwin.  Edwin, though, takes a lot of build up and risk to play him.  Arcanist doesn't require more than a secret to stick, which tendss ot happen depending on which secrets are around for mage.  There's no good way to make him usable without being broken.

So nevermind buffing. I'm all for just cutting him out of the game before someone figures out a way to make him actually work.  

Neutral

Illidan Stormrage 7/5-> 7/6 should be buffed.. I think his text should be more impactful but I can't change it by my own rules.

Honestly I like his minion making thing and I wouldn't dare buff it.  honestly I'd rather flip the stats: 5/7, so that his threat comes more from his spawns rather than his attack.  

Arcane Golem 3-> 2 mana if you are giving your opponent a huge upside at least make it worth... was nerfed too hard..

Makes cards that summon random 2 drops stronger and he's still worthless as is.  

if you really want to spice him up but keep him Classic viable.. again breaking that silly rule:  "both players gain a mana crystal."