I wonder how many people actually watch these. I know that people would be bribed to watch before with pack via twitch... but unless they offer that I do not see people sitting and watching these. Is that just me?
The two English-language YT streams have a total of 50K and 80K views, respectively.
This brawl would be nice if it actually were random but the same cards (often bad ones) appear no matter what you play. I remember a few years ago when brawls were worth waiting fo
Hi there, you can call me Glen (not my real name) but that doesn’t really matter at this point.
Anyways, I decided to make this post so hopefully Riot could see it (whether it gets to that point who knows), but I think my point is very sound and hopefully, people will agree with me and Riot will actually consider this change.
To make a header, this post is directed at one main balance problem I have about this game - the randomness of who starts with the attack token first, and how the player who does not start with it IS NOT COMPENSATED AT ALL. They are simply at a disadvantage.
First of all a bit about my background with TCGs - I’m in my 30s, and have played TCGs since I was 10. I’ve played many TCGs, and at a very skillful and high level - I have competed at National level tournaments for World of Warcraft TCG (this is before Hearthstone), Magic the Gathering, Legend at Hearthstone, Highest level online cups at Faeria, and I’ve literally dabbled in every TCG game ever made. I was even the state champion for a TCGplayer.com event for Magic the Gathering one year. Now I say all this not to yank my chain, but to make a point - I know TCGs very well, and I know how they work at the core, what is fair and what is not fair, and what eventually drove me away from playing TCGs. I am not some random uninformed person moaning about something.
Now I”ve played LOR quite a lot - I daresay go to say, it is my favorite TCG of all time. That is ssaying A LOT. That means Riot has done a lot right- it has incorporated a lot of my favorite elements from all the TCGs i’ve ever played. Hell, I didn’t think I would play TCGs anymore because I got fed up at some game-breaking RNG factors that entail a lot of them. The spell mana bank is great - it allows you to stay in the game even if you miss your 1 or 2 drop cards and you don’t have them to begin with. I like the increased CARD DRAW because it means RNG is LESS of a factor, because you simply have more options per turn (and so does your opponent). No more getting screwed bc you didn’t draw enough lands like Magic, obviously - something Hearthstone spearheaded a while ago. A LOT of things done right- and I’ve had a LOT of fun playing this game because it was so very highly dependent on player choices. Except for one big thing that is really starting to turn me away.
You see, I am the type of player that doesn’t like to lose because of RNG. I study matchups, I study cards, I know all the cards, I know all the scenarios, I typically make as many right decisions as I can. I don’t like to lose because i happened to not draw the right card or bc RNG threw me a curveball. In fact I quit a lot of the TCGs that I spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on bc I got fed up at that. And I fear that, if this balance change is not addressed - it will drive some of LoR’s most passionate players away. Because this game is touted as a “played skill above all” game - it is not advertised like Hearthstone, which is known and does not even try to hide the high level of RNG present in their game. It considers RNG as part of the “fun”. Sure, it is fun if you like RNG. But I think I, and many other players who REALLY like LoR, are drawn to it because you win your games PRIMARILY on skill and when i say PRIMARILY I mean a much higher number than 75 or 80% skill and 20% luck. Yes RNG is always SOME of a factor in card games, this is unavoidable as the nature of the card game, but in this game, its supposed to be VERY minimal. Even the RNG card design is aimed at to be “not all RNG” but RNG based on player choices - take the Allegiance keyword or say “Make it Rain” etc etc as detailed in Riot’s blog post.
Now I am primarily an Aggro player or midrange player, I do not typically enjoy playing control, though I can very well play it and actually play it very well. But aggro is my goto style. And because of that I noticed a glaring unequality in the fact who starts with the attack token first.
This inequality is really easily visible for aggro decks and for players using cards(mainly champions) who have QUICK ATTACK. See, quick attack is garbage on defense but GODLIKE on offense. Sure, nothing wrong with that. It’s the design. But hear me out (and i might be a little unclear in how I describe it) - certain champions with quick attack get a HUGE advantage, especially if theyre an aggro deck, when you get to play them RIGHT ON CURVE. And since you can’t play Allies with banked spell mana - it comes down to a complete RNG factor - did i start with the attack token this game, did I drew my bombass champion (Zed, Miss Fortune main culprits I see here), Drawn or Katarina lesser culprits, even Elise who gets to attack on curve turn 2 and get that free spider. And THERE IS NO compensation for the player who doesn’t start with the attack token, and I think there should be.
I played many Zed aggro mirror matches, and basically, the guy who goes first with the attack token - all things being equal, meaning all players making optimal decision - he will almost always win if he gets the attack token first and plays the Zed on attack turn 3. You can’t actually counter Zed easily unless you have a Mystic Shot type card and THERE AREN’T REALLY MANY CARDS OUT THERE that can do that. And you can’t block him, not on turn 3 really - very few cards capable of blocking and coming out on top. He’ll get that free 3/2 shadow and hit you in the face for 3 even if you sac one of ur guys to chump block and basically… he’s coming out WAY on top just bc he happened to start with the attack token first. I’m literally playing mirror matches with BETTER CARDS drawn than him sitting in my hand, and a Zed sitting in my hand - but because I CAN’T ATTACK on turn 3, he wins the aggro race bc you almost CANT block Zed that early. So I play my Zed turn 4 and attack but by then it’s too late - i’ve already had to sacrifice a unit to keep him from leveling up or just taking the dmg to the face and I’m WAY in the deficit. And this is all not because I got outplayed, but because he happened to start with the attack token first which is a COMPLETE RNG factor.
But not just talking about Zed, there are many champions who really benefit from having their turn line up right when they need to attack - Take Draven, or Miss Fortune, Jinx, yasuo - if your turn lines up, say T3 for Zed, Drvaen or Miss Fortune and you HAPPENED to start with the attack token - you get a BIG bonus and basically a free attack which is HUGE for aggro players. This is most prominent with Zed bc not only do they have to chump block you but even if they do, they still take some damage from the shadow. Jinx Yasuo on turn 4- free attack basically. You get the idea. It’s easier to deal with the more turns there are in the game when said champion is played but the RNG factor if you get to play these champs RIGHT on curve is just so game winning. And it would be OK, but here’s the thing - why is there no compensation for who doesn’t get to attack first? For instance, Hearthstone does this right- they give the turn 2 player “The Coin”. But in LoR, theres no such thing- the second turn player just gets to be at a clear disadvantage. Yes its not AS OBVIOUS in some deck matchups, like in control, its not as obvious but when you’re playing aggro? Or playing AGINST aggro? It makes A WORLD of difference.
Basically, I feel that the second player should be compensated somehow for not getting to attack first. The player who gets the attack token first is LITERALLY a turn ahead sometimes, just because… they get to attack one turn earlier than their opponent! And combined with certain cards and champions and keywords THIS. IS. DEVASTATING. It is not fair.
Now I haven’t thought about the specifics of how to balance this but I do know this - something should be done about this if ya’ll pride this game on being “skill above all” because I”ve lost so many games as aggro and against aggro because I was not able to be on curve with my attack lineups. For instance hearthstone has the coin for the t2 player, I’m sure something could be thought out for LoR.
Thank you for listening to me, and I’d love to hear your opinions on what ya’ll think - if you support me, or disagree - and if you disagree, how do you think making it completely random who attacks first with no compensation for the T2 player balanced?
Make sure you're doing Expeditions each week. Even if you win 0 games you'll still get an Epic Capsule, which can upgrade (the cards inside it too), and if you get to 7 wins you'll get 2k in Shards. That's only 1k away from crafting a new Champion. Also, don't forget to level your Vault at least to level 10 each week. You're guaranteed a Champion Wildcard at that level. You can also roll the dice and just get your Vault to level 5 cause you will get a random Champion there. Good luck!
I thought they only generated Army of the Dead and Doom Pact. I always dream of the mystical Frostmourne, but it's always just out of my reach. The Lich King must have been saving all of mine to give to you.
I think it's actually perfectly balanced. 8 Armor equals roughly 3 mana, and the Attack reduction effect is worth 1 mana (see that Warlock Echo card, which has that effect for 2 mana because of Echo, and Echo cards usually have effects that cost 1 less than the cards themselves).
I would agree had that card been judged in a vacuum, you need to take into consideration this card is in a Classic set and all the other Armor gain cards for Warrior in the game. Just because it is balanced on its own does not mean it wouldnt be oppressive in the class when mixed in with all the other cards.
It might seem weird getting 4 of the same "random" card in one game, but it really isnt. The card pool it draws from isnt that big so this is bound to happen. Yes, the chance is small, but not impossible. I wouldnt look for anything rigged here.
So the title is self-explanatory I was playing the current brawl and summoned The Lich King and pulled Arfus out with a Deathlord. Lich king generated 4 cards for me 3 Frostmournes and a Death Coil while Arfus only triggered his death rattle giving a Frostmourne. Which in my opinion is very ironic since the brawl is all about "randomness" so that comes to my main question was this intended like the brawl last week giving us no 1 cost spells if we didn't get them, or was it just really weird odds?
Great rework, I love that you are doing these. Maybe Blizzard will get a clue.
The only thing I disagree with is the inclusion of Revenge. It just feels too similar to Whirlwind, already included in the evergreen set. I'd swap back Fiery War Axe for it, so Warrior can have an early game weapon, and it is another target for Upgrade!.
I wonder how many people actually watch these. I know that people would be bribed to watch before with pack via twitch... but unless they offer that I do not see people sitting and watching these. Is that just me?
I think it's actually perfectly balanced. 8 Armor equals roughly 3 mana, and the Attack reduction effect is worth 1 mana (see that Warlock Echo card, which has that effect for 2 mana because of Echo, and Echo cards usually have effects that cost 1 less than the cards themselves).
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2020 Season 1 Continues With Week 4
The two English-language YT streams have a total of 50K and 80K views, respectively.
Lich King and Arfus generated 5 DK cards 4 were frostmournes
This brawl would be nice if it actually were random but the same cards (often bad ones) appear no matter what you play. I remember a few years ago when brawls were worth waiting fo
Message to Riot Devs about core game balance - The starting Attack token
Hi there, you can call me Glen (not my real name) but that doesn’t really matter at this point.
Anyways, I decided to make this post so hopefully Riot could see it (whether it gets to that point who knows), but I think my point is very sound and hopefully, people will agree with me and Riot will actually consider this change.
To make a header, this post is directed at one main balance problem I have about this game - the randomness of who starts with the attack token first, and how the player who does not start with it IS NOT COMPENSATED AT ALL. They are simply at a disadvantage.
First of all a bit about my background with TCGs - I’m in my 30s, and have played TCGs since I was 10. I’ve played many TCGs, and at a very skillful and high level - I have competed at National level tournaments for World of Warcraft TCG (this is before Hearthstone), Magic the Gathering, Legend at Hearthstone, Highest level online cups at Faeria, and I’ve literally dabbled in every TCG game ever made. I was even the state champion for a TCGplayer.com event for Magic the Gathering one year. Now I say all this not to yank my chain, but to make a point - I know TCGs very well, and I know how they work at the core, what is fair and what is not fair, and what eventually drove me away from playing TCGs. I am not some random uninformed person moaning about something.
Now I”ve played LOR quite a lot - I daresay go to say, it is my favorite TCG of all time. That is ssaying A LOT. That means Riot has done a lot right- it has incorporated a lot of my favorite elements from all the TCGs i’ve ever played. Hell, I didn’t think I would play TCGs anymore because I got fed up at some game-breaking RNG factors that entail a lot of them. The spell mana bank is great - it allows you to stay in the game even if you miss your 1 or 2 drop cards and you don’t have them to begin with. I like the increased CARD DRAW because it means RNG is LESS of a factor, because you simply have more options per turn (and so does your opponent). No more getting screwed bc you didn’t draw enough lands like Magic, obviously - something Hearthstone spearheaded a while ago. A LOT of things done right- and I’ve had a LOT of fun playing this game because it was so very highly dependent on player choices. Except for one big thing that is really starting to turn me away.
You see, I am the type of player that doesn’t like to lose because of RNG. I study matchups, I study cards, I know all the cards, I know all the scenarios, I typically make as many right decisions as I can. I don’t like to lose because i happened to not draw the right card or bc RNG threw me a curveball. In fact I quit a lot of the TCGs that I spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on bc I got fed up at that. And I fear that, if this balance change is not addressed - it will drive some of LoR’s most passionate players away. Because this game is touted as a “played skill above all” game - it is not advertised like Hearthstone, which is known and does not even try to hide the high level of RNG present in their game. It considers RNG as part of the “fun”. Sure, it is fun if you like RNG. But I think I, and many other players who REALLY like LoR, are drawn to it because you win your games PRIMARILY on skill and when i say PRIMARILY I mean a much higher number than 75 or 80% skill and 20% luck. Yes RNG is always SOME of a factor in card games, this is unavoidable as the nature of the card game, but in this game, its supposed to be VERY minimal. Even the RNG card design is aimed at to be “not all RNG” but RNG based on player choices - take the Allegiance keyword or say “Make it Rain” etc etc as detailed in Riot’s blog post.
Now I am primarily an Aggro player or midrange player, I do not typically enjoy playing control, though I can very well play it and actually play it very well. But aggro is my goto style. And because of that I noticed a glaring unequality in the fact who starts with the attack token first.
This inequality is really easily visible for aggro decks and for players using cards(mainly champions) who have QUICK ATTACK. See, quick attack is garbage on defense but GODLIKE on offense. Sure, nothing wrong with that. It’s the design. But hear me out (and i might be a little unclear in how I describe it) - certain champions with quick attack get a HUGE advantage, especially if theyre an aggro deck, when you get to play them RIGHT ON CURVE. And since you can’t play Allies with banked spell mana - it comes down to a complete RNG factor - did i start with the attack token this game, did I drew my bombass champion (Zed, Miss Fortune main culprits I see here), Drawn or Katarina lesser culprits, even Elise who gets to attack on curve turn 2 and get that free spider. And THERE IS NO compensation for the player who doesn’t start with the attack token, and I think there should be.
I played many Zed aggro mirror matches, and basically, the guy who goes first with the attack token - all things being equal, meaning all players making optimal decision - he will almost always win if he gets the attack token first and plays the Zed on attack turn 3. You can’t actually counter Zed easily unless you have a Mystic Shot type card and THERE AREN’T REALLY MANY CARDS OUT THERE that can do that. And you can’t block him, not on turn 3 really - very few cards capable of blocking and coming out on top. He’ll get that free 3/2 shadow and hit you in the face for 3 even if you sac one of ur guys to chump block and basically… he’s coming out WAY on top just bc he happened to start with the attack token first. I’m literally playing mirror matches with BETTER CARDS drawn than him sitting in my hand, and a Zed sitting in my hand - but because I CAN’T ATTACK on turn 3, he wins the aggro race bc you almost CANT block Zed that early. So I play my Zed turn 4 and attack but by then it’s too late - i’ve already had to sacrifice a unit to keep him from leveling up or just taking the dmg to the face and I’m WAY in the deficit. And this is all not because I got outplayed, but because he happened to start with the attack token first which is a COMPLETE RNG factor.
But not just talking about Zed, there are many champions who really benefit from having their turn line up right when they need to attack - Take Draven, or Miss Fortune, Jinx, yasuo - if your turn lines up, say T3 for Zed, Drvaen or Miss Fortune and you HAPPENED to start with the attack token - you get a BIG bonus and basically a free attack which is HUGE for aggro players. This is most prominent with Zed bc not only do they have to chump block you but even if they do, they still take some damage from the shadow. Jinx Yasuo on turn 4- free attack basically. You get the idea. It’s easier to deal with the more turns there are in the game when said champion is played but the RNG factor if you get to play these champs RIGHT on curve is just so game winning. And it would be OK, but here’s the thing - why is there no compensation for who doesn’t get to attack first? For instance, Hearthstone does this right- they give the turn 2 player “The Coin”. But in LoR, theres no such thing- the second turn player just gets to be at a clear disadvantage. Yes its not AS OBVIOUS in some deck matchups, like in control, its not as obvious but when you’re playing aggro? Or playing AGINST aggro? It makes A WORLD of difference.
Basically, I feel that the second player should be compensated somehow for not getting to attack first. The player who gets the attack token first is LITERALLY a turn ahead sometimes, just because… they get to attack one turn earlier than their opponent! And combined with certain cards and champions and keywords THIS. IS. DEVASTATING. It is not fair.
Now I haven’t thought about the specifics of how to balance this but I do know this - something should be done about this if ya’ll pride this game on being “skill above all” because I”ve lost so many games as aggro and against aggro because I was not able to be on curve with my attack lineups. For instance hearthstone has the coin for the t2 player, I’m sure something could be thought out for LoR.
Thank you for listening to me, and I’d love to hear your opinions on what ya’ll think - if you support me, or disagree - and if you disagree, how do you think making it completely random who attacks first with no compensation for the T2 player balanced?
Egg Warrior - 59% WR HSReplay
they haven't updated risky skippers text on the site yet. he's supposed to be a pirate.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next up, a minion with Enrage (or 'has X while damaged' for the noobs).
[Game] Card Treasure Hunt (The Resurrection Attempt)
Nobody is going to be able to guess that one
Forbidden Words?
Awesome Lee Sin Decks for Runeterra's Rising Tides Expansion
Make sure you're doing Expeditions each week. Even if you win 0 games you'll still get an Epic Capsule, which can upgrade (the cards inside it too), and if you get to 7 wins you'll get 2k in Shards. That's only 1k away from crafting a new Champion. Also, don't forget to level your Vault at least to level 10 each week. You're guaranteed a Champion Wildcard at that level. You can also roll the dice and just get your Vault to level 5 cause you will get a random Champion there. Good luck!
New emote: RNG
This thread is so pointless in every sense of the word, I don't even know where to start.
For one, the game doesn't need an "RNG" emote. It would in no way add anything positive to the game.
Also, we here on Out of Cards can't generate an "RNG" emote for you. You aren't going to get what you want by complaining about it online.
What do you expect us to say? What do you want us to do? do you want us to comfort you? Or do you just want to express your frustration?
I really hate to have to be "that guy", trust me, I really do. But, we have a salt thread for a reason.
Does LoR tend to lag on mobile?
iPhone XR here.
No issues with LoR.
However, Hearthstone does like to be laggy every once in a while but I think that's more attributed to my connection on mobile and not the game.
Awesome Lee Sin Decks for Runeterra's Rising Tides Expansion
I need more cards.
I want to play something like the combo/control lee sin so bad lol.
Buff Vi.
She has felt very strong in my games against her.
Lich King and Arfus generated 5 DK cards 4 were frostmournes
I thought they only generated Army of the Dead and Doom Pact. I always dream of the mystical Frostmourne, but it's always just out of my reach. The Lich King must have been saving all of mine to give to you.
All 27 Cards From the Upcoming Historic Anthology 3 in MTG Arena - Releases May 21
I fear that over time, I will have to save up and buy these bundles with gold, cash in some money, or play standard.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next up, show me something with Mech synergy
Lich King and Arfus generated 5 DK cards 4 were frostmournes
Figured as much didn't really think there was any malicious intent just wondering if it would pull Frostmourne most of the time.
Neoguli's Custom Warrior Core Set Changes
I would agree had that card been judged in a vacuum, you need to take into consideration this card is in a Classic set and all the other Armor gain cards for Warrior in the game. Just because it is balanced on its own does not mean it wouldnt be oppressive in the class when mixed in with all the other cards.
Lich King and Arfus generated 5 DK cards 4 were frostmournes
It might seem weird getting 4 of the same "random" card in one game, but it really isnt. The card pool it draws from isnt that big so this is bound to happen. Yes, the chance is small, but not impossible. I wouldnt look for anything rigged here.
Lich King and Arfus generated 5 DK cards 4 were frostmournes
So the title is self-explanatory I was playing the current brawl and summoned The Lich King and pulled Arfus out with a Deathlord. Lich king generated 4 cards for me 3 Frostmournes and a Death Coil while Arfus only triggered his death rattle giving a Frostmourne. Which in my opinion is very ironic since the brawl is all about "randomness" so that comes to my main question was this intended like the brawl last week giving us no 1 cost spells if we didn't get them, or was it just really weird odds?
Neoguli's Custom Warrior Core Set Changes
Great rework, I love that you are doing these. Maybe Blizzard will get a clue.
The only thing I disagree with is the inclusion of Revenge. It just feels too similar to Whirlwind, already included in the evergreen set. I'd swap back Fiery War Axe for it, so Warrior can have an early game weapon, and it is another target for Upgrade!.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Hero you go lad !
My request remains the same , look 2 posts above.
VengaDragon Live
Friday Night Vibes! Come by and tell me you're from Out of Cards.
Hearthstone Grandmasters 2020 Season 1 Continues With Week 4
I wonder how many people actually watch these. I know that people would be bribed to watch before with pack via twitch... but unless they offer that I do not see people sitting and watching these. Is that just me?
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
ignore this I posted a few seconds after someone else
next:
Overpowered card to push an underplayed archetype
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Here you go !
Up next :Expensive warlock spell (>6 mana)
Neoguli's Custom Warrior Core Set Changes
I think it's actually perfectly balanced. 8 Armor equals roughly 3 mana, and the Attack reduction effect is worth 1 mana (see that Warlock Echo card, which has that effect for 2 mana because of Echo, and Echo cards usually have effects that cost 1 less than the cards themselves).