Props to whoever submitted the Sylvanas Prime card. Looks like there was no need to worry about lots of Sylvanas submissions but the one that did come around eventually is far better than mine. Good luck!
Honestly, the one thing i have the issue with this card is that in the time when Ashes of Outland take place, Sylvanas was already a banshee, so making her as her original self doesnt make much sense to me.
I know that not everyone knows the lore, i know i dont very well myself, but when it comes to big lore characters like this, it feels weird. I would have much rather saw a completely new, custom form for her, like Ice Alar or Mecha KT, than to try and fit her original form into the game when there is no proper setting to do so. Maybe when Toki finally takes us back to the past to repair the timeline, then we might find ourselves in a proper setting :)
DQ Alex didn't make the cut because she is too slow. She doesn't show appearance in a lot of Reno decks btw. The reason why she sees plays in Reno Quest Mage is because her 0 cost dragons are great for pushing damage in the Time Warp turn. The reason why shes being played in Reno Dragon Priest is because of her Dragon tag and because 0 mana Dragons can be played for board or as Spawn Machine Gun fuel. Outside of those 2 Reno deck she's basically just a 9 mana 3 big bodies which is fairly weak for Wild. In this deck there's no point running her when we have coins as Spawn activator and we just generally don't aim to play 9 mana +some bodies. DQ Alex is a good card but should be questioned whether to be put in the deck or not. She is not an auto include in Reno decks the same way as Kruul or Solia isn't.
It’s also worth noting that on a strategic level, you should also rate all of the other cards in the non-finalist phase one star as well (if you submitted)
Also Veteran Investigator also seems like a bad expedition card. You never want to give your opponent extra card draw.
I've never understood the logic behind this, myself. Of course, letting your opponent draw cards is generally disadvantageous. However, if I get to draw one at the same time, it pretty much cancels out, doesn't it? Only point I could see against this is if the opponent is running some sort of combo deck, which naturally benefits more from having a bigger hand than other decks.
I had lots of fun with it when I was on a teemo deck. Enemy's nexus was at 2 HP, he summoned an overwhelm unit that would destroy mine, and then I summoned the Veteran Investigator. Plop, 2 mushrooms, victory!
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the deck, I'll admit it had a few rough matchups, and that's why I updated it. With the new changes you should expect better results.
On the subject of people voting way too harshly... How in the hell are Incendiary Chicken and Grand Apothecary Putress worthy of 13 1 star ratings?!?! I'm curious to know how any of the cards in the final were worthy of a 1 star rating? Are people not voting on a 5 star basis in the finals, but marking them by "favorite to least favorite"? If so, we should change the voting of the finalist cards to rating from 1-8 instead of a 5 star system.
Don't know about anyone else, but when it comes to the finals I basically always give out 5-stars or 1-star. 5-stars for the card I want to win, and 1-star for everyone else. At that point we're looking for a sole winner, so I give the card I want to win the maximum chance of victory. This is especially true if I'm one of the finalists: frankly, how else should I vote? I would be shooting myself in the foot and jeopardizing my chances to win by giving someone else more than 1-star. I don't do this during the regular voting period, but I absolutely do so if I'm in the finals.
On a side note, we (the moderators) have been discussing the possibility of removing the ability to vote for finalists if you yourself are a finalist. That would remove the situation I just described, wherein the meta way to "play the game" is to vote 5-stars for yourself and 1-star to everyone else.
I think instead of the ability to not vote for your card, you should look at a different voting format. If most people are voting 5 stars for the one they want to win, and 1 star for the cards they don't, then a 5 star rating system is kind of the wrong tool based on how people are voting.
Maybe instead, vote for your top 3 favorite, and give an average to determine the top 3 winners?
I thought about voting all other cards 1 star when my cards make the finals, but I have not been doing that because it doesn't rest easy on my conscience. They aren't 1 star cards... I'm not going to go back and do the math, but I know a couple of my cards made the top 3 and were really close to winning. Had I just voted all other cards 1 star, I may have won one of these past weeks.
If you're going to make any changes to the voting in the finals, I suggest looking at the 5 star system first because I don't think that is the best system for how people are actually voting in the final round.
The nice thing about ashes of outland which makes reno exodia more consistent is that you can use maiev shadowsong to make a minion dormant and have only one of zola or brewmaster bounce a minion, and then when the minion is not dormant anymore you can do the combo with garrison commander. So out of the three bounce or dormant cards you can keep any two for the combo and use one for tempo or to bounce something like reno. Against a deck like secret mage bouncing reno plus having tempo and removals can win without the combo.
Thanks for the vid, Charm3r! It definitely helps more than a simple decklist. One peice of constructive criticism: if you're going to include a long deck explanation like that, consider including a "to the matches" shortcut in your video description.
Loatheb is amazing to protect your board after Shudderwock! I swapped it for Bandersmosh, which frankly I'll never craft. AND good old Shuderwock's buddy Lifedrinker in Doomcaller's place, even though I considered an AoE or heal for a slight chance against aggro.
EDIT: 1st match playing this deck I went against Mill Rogue and simply obliterated him at turn 9 with board valor and smart hand management. Doubled my Dopplegangster/Evolve combo and he didn't have Vanish lol
Hi Swizard. Thanks for showing me this interesting deck. It looks stronger against aggro than my version, which is a heavy cycle OTK one-trick pony that's bonkers against control but a lot weaker against aggro (something akin to your C'Thun Shudderwock). I'll post the decklist + guide soon and let you know.
This one is just beautiful. All the amazing highlander tools including Sir Finley (although he's so lackluster compared to other classes' highlander minions) plus a draw package and the Exodia finisher in Uther + bouncers/cloners. However, as you only have one Youthful Brewmaster, you restrict your Zola too much in control match-ups, just to copy another horseman (can't rely on a horseman staying on board for another turn). Hope that didn't come up too confusing... When I ran a similar version I had 2 pandas and sometimes Zola to copy other things including Shirvallah, the Tiger if necessary.
Nice that you use Ashes of Outland cards too. I couldn't include any in my version. Anyway, congrats for the deck and see you in Wild ladder.
I wouldn't use Elysiana, even in the mirror it's not really an important card (besides Thoughtsteal and multiple Madame Lazuls excist), the board state is much more important. I like double Plague and the anti-Aggro stuff though, good job!
In terms of playing against Ruination, the best thing to do is to force your opponent to play Ruination by threatening lethal while still keeping some powerful units in hand. Since most SI decks will run a maximum of 1, maybe 2 Ruinations, once you've managed to bait out one you should be able to develop the board again and kill them without being punished. Open-attacking without playing a unit on your attack turn is also good if you suspect a ruination. You can also play a deck that wins through methods other than units, such as an Ezreal-Karma deck or Corina Control. You could also play shadow isles decks that run cards like Ledros that aren't punished by Ruination.
I am struggling mightily against any half-decent SI player, and looking for some general advice on how to approach them. I've tried to take various approaches against SI decks adjusting for previous ways SI players have beaten me, and it's gotten to a point where I'm losing a majority of SI games one way or the other.
A major part of the problem for me is trying to "play around" Vengeance and Ruination primarily since I've gotten burned by either building powerful units to see them wiped away with a 7 mana fast spell. Also, finding myself falling behind by holding onto big units, trying not to overextend myself in the mid/late game (knowing that they can drop a Ruination once I've gained control), as they are amassing & building up units through value plays like Ravenous Butcher or Chronicler of Ruin + The Undying/Cursed Keeper, Shark Chariot, and Barkbeast, etc.
Most of my wins vs SI are with Noxus/Ionia hyper burn, applying as much pressure as I can early and hoping my early draws win me the match in the first 6-9 rounds which isn't fun or gratifying. Sometimes I'll simply disregard the existence of Ruination, hoping the other player doesn't draw one and get away with it but I lose a lot of games this way too.
Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I like the card and the quest system but I have no idea about the main story so far. Probably it hasn't even begun yet. It's a little inconvenient that there seems to be no immediate indicator that tells me if a picked up piece of equipment is better than what I carry at the moment. That was a really useful feature in the witcher 3. Thanks again for helping me getting started!
Ahm, about the story - Theodrinus is absolutely right, that there is no single central storyline. In fact, there are so many different major and side characters influenting major and small events, that imho it's not really possible to mention them all in the game. And there's also an alternative universe :D.
In the next paragraphs I would like to share my experience doing the Loremaster achievement in Wotlk (i.e. completing almost all of the quests in Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Outland and Northrend) and reading the quests I was doing. Imho the game doesn't inform the player that much about the lore. Most of the quests in the Classic regions tell you to kill this or that, to go somewhere and fetch something etc. Like, who cares if a farmer X has a beast/zombie/defias rogue problem in his back yard or if a random stranger wants you to bring some supplies in the nearest inn, because they are too tired or scared. Quests like these feel too generic and are in the game for the sake of you gaining experience to level up. The Classic quests give you a loose idea of what is happening in all corners of Azeroth, but if you want to learn more about the major characters, I'd suggest finding external sources - like reading the warcraft related books & comics or watching some videos on youtube:
Back in TBC people didn't understand why they had to fight their beloved characters from Warcraft 3 and to kill them - Illidan and Kael'thas. It was way later explained in a book, that after his defeat in Northrend Illidan wanted to prepare an army against the burning legion and strike them down in their main domain, Argus (which was the former home of the Eredar before they went into exile, becoming the Draenei, or followed Sargeras, becoming the Man'ari). So he trained the Demon Hunters (Illidari), but he did so in secret, which led to the alienation of Akama. He didn't get his beloved sacred temple back as he was promised, he didn't understand what Illidan's plans were, so he viewed him as the legion's puppet and decided to betray him. He met Maiev, they decided to work together, Illidan eventually learnt of his duplicity, he ripped a portion of his soul and with it he tricked the Warden into a trap. And that's pretty much where the players came in - they learnt how Illidan kept Maiev hostage and Akama's soul under his command, how he terrorised the civilians in Outland (he captured orcs and turned them into fel orcs with Magtheridon's blood thus binding them to his will; he instructed Lady Vashj to seize control of the water reserves and to limit its supply to other creatures) and how he was raising an army of elven demon hunters in his own image for unknown reasons. So in TBC we saw him as a tyrant, as the villian of the expansion and thus the next kill target w/o knowing his true intentions. He just took drastic measures to mobilze the beings in Outland and send them against burning legion, because as the saying goes "the end justifies the means".
Another example, when the lore isn't mentioned in the game: In the Night Elf capital city Fandral Staghelm wants the players to bring him Morrowgrain for some goodies. It was revealed in a book, that he used that herb to keep Malfurion imprisoned in the Emerald Nightmare and planned to kill him later on.
As you can see, you shouldn't expect to learn everything important about the major characters by playing the MMO. You will only get a loose idea of what's happening in the WORLD of warcraft. But if you ignore the meaningless quests, you are going to explore a whole new world. You will see how people live there, what problems they have, what kind of creatures inhabit certain areas etc. You will be like the cameraman of a National Geographic documentaion film who only has a narrow understanding of what he's filming. Your narrator will be the quests you complete and those won't provide you with the full information of the things you encounter. If you want to get all of the references, you can watch lore-related videos or read the books and let your imagination flow.
That was my opinion based on the Classic quests, which were preserved in Wotlk. I must admit, that with the next two expansions the storytelling in the quests became better. In Outland and in Northrend I got to experience more lore-related missions than the typical "kill this, kill that" ones. Don't ask me how the storytelling evolved in the next expansions and how it is in current WoW. Theodrinus informed you about the world revamp. When Cata launched, most of the quests in the classic regions were changed (heck, how could they have stayed the same when the whole Azeroth got shattered by Deathwing's actions). And since I didn't play on retail, I don't have an opinion about this aspect. But I think that it improved - you'll get to experience some ingame events and cutscenes, which would make you feel more involved in the lore.
Legendary Quest Reno Priest: Deck proving itself trough multiple ocassions
Explanation is right above. Just a heads up ^^
Classically Trained - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Honestly, the one thing i have the issue with this card is that in the time when Ashes of Outland take place, Sylvanas was already a banshee, so making her as her original self doesnt make much sense to me.
I know that not everyone knows the lore, i know i dont very well myself, but when it comes to big lore characters like this, it feels weird. I would have much rather saw a completely new, custom form for her, like Ice Alar or Mecha KT, than to try and fit her original form into the game when there is no proper setting to do so. Maybe when Toki finally takes us back to the past to repair the timeline, then we might find ourselves in a proper setting :)
Legendary Quest Reno Priest: Deck proving itself trough multiple ocassions
DQ Alex didn't make the cut because she is too slow. She doesn't show appearance in a lot of Reno decks btw. The reason why she sees plays in Reno Quest Mage is because her 0 cost dragons are great for pushing damage in the Time Warp turn. The reason why shes being played in Reno Dragon Priest is because of her Dragon tag and because 0 mana Dragons can be played for board or as Spawn Machine Gun fuel. Outside of those 2 Reno deck she's basically just a 9 mana 3 big bodies which is fairly weak for Wild. In this deck there's no point running her when we have coins as Spawn activator and we just generally don't aim to play 9 mana +some bodies. DQ Alex is a good card but should be questioned whether to be put in the deck or not. She is not an auto include in Reno decks the same way as Kruul or Solia isn't.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next : New Word spell for priest
Quest Trading - Play A Friend!
Battletag: Razorwind#2588
Region: NA online now
Trade Only?: Yes, you go first
Archaeological Deck - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
It’s also worth noting that on a strategic level, you should also rate all of the other cards in the non-finalist phase one star as well (if you submitted)
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
I had lots of fun with it when I was on a teemo deck. Enemy's nexus was at 2 HP, he summoned an overwhelm unit that would destroy mine, and then I summoned the Veteran Investigator. Plop, 2 mushrooms, victory!
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Make some combos out of this one
Next: a minion with Echo
Rolling Mecha'bones
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the deck, I'll admit it had a few rough matchups, and that's why I updated it. With the new changes you should expect better results.
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Archaeological Deck - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
I think instead of the ability to not vote for your card, you should look at a different voting format. If most people are voting 5 stars for the one they want to win, and 1 star for the cards they don't, then a 5 star rating system is kind of the wrong tool based on how people are voting.
Maybe instead, vote for your top 3 favorite, and give an average to determine the top 3 winners?
I thought about voting all other cards 1 star when my cards make the finals, but I have not been doing that because it doesn't rest easy on my conscience. They aren't 1 star cards... I'm not going to go back and do the math, but I know a couple of my cards made the top 3 and were really close to winning. Had I just voted all other cards 1 star, I may have won one of these past weeks.
If you're going to make any changes to the voting in the finals, I suggest looking at the 5 star system first because I don't think that is the best system for how people are actually voting in the final round.
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
creepiest art
magnetic synergy
next: anything
Classically Trained - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Good luck to everyone for the voting! I’m really happy with my card this week, so I hope it does well! :
Reno Exodia Paladin - Now with Guide
The nice thing about ashes of outland which makes reno exodia more consistent is that you can use maiev shadowsong to make a minion dormant and have only one of zola or brewmaster bounce a minion, and then when the minion is not dormant anymore you can do the combo with garrison commander. So out of the three bounce or dormant cards you can keep any two for the combo and use one for tempo or to bounce something like reno. Against a deck like secret mage bouncing reno plus having tempo and removals can win without the combo.
Rolling Mecha'bones
Stupid Deck, no fun
Here's some art, make a card! [Legacy Game]
Next up, a Hunter Mech.
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Deck Spotlight: CHARM3R's Midrange Gangplank and Kalista
Thanks for the vid, Charm3r! It definitely helps more than a simple decklist. One peice of constructive criticism: if you're going to include a long deck explanation like that, consider including a "to the matches" shortcut in your video description.
C'thun Shaman - Long Guide
Loatheb is amazing to protect your board after Shudderwock! I swapped it for Bandersmosh, which frankly I'll never craft. AND good old Shuderwock's buddy Lifedrinker in Doomcaller's place, even though I considered an AoE or heal for a slight chance against aggro.
EDIT: 1st match playing this deck I went against Mill Rogue and simply obliterated him at turn 9 with board valor and smart hand management. Doubled my Dopplegangster/Evolve combo and he didn't have Vanish lol
Reno Exodia Paladin - Now with Guide
Hi Swizard. Thanks for showing me this interesting deck. It looks stronger against aggro than my version, which is a heavy cycle OTK one-trick pony that's bonkers against control but a lot weaker against aggro (something akin to your C'Thun Shudderwock). I'll post the decklist + guide soon and let you know.
This one is just beautiful. All the amazing highlander tools including Sir Finley (although he's so lackluster compared to other classes' highlander minions) plus a draw package and the Exodia finisher in Uther + bouncers/cloners. However, as you only have one Youthful Brewmaster, you restrict your Zola too much in control match-ups, just to copy another horseman (can't rely on a horseman staying on board for another turn). Hope that didn't come up too confusing... When I ran a similar version I had 2 pandas and sometimes Zola to copy other things including Shirvallah, the Tiger if necessary.
Nice that you use Ashes of Outland cards too. I couldn't include any in my version. Anyway, congrats for the deck and see you in Wild ladder.
Sieg
Control Priest
I wouldn't use Elysiana, even in the mirror it's not really an important card (besides Thoughtsteal and multiple Madame Lazuls excist), the board state is much more important. I like double Plague and the anti-Aggro stuff though, good job!
Consistenly Having Issues vs SI
In terms of playing against Ruination, the best thing to do is to force your opponent to play Ruination by threatening lethal while still keeping some powerful units in hand. Since most SI decks will run a maximum of 1, maybe 2 Ruinations, once you've managed to bait out one you should be able to develop the board again and kill them without being punished. Open-attacking without playing a unit on your attack turn is also good if you suspect a ruination. You can also play a deck that wins through methods other than units, such as an Ezreal-Karma deck or Corina Control. You could also play shadow isles decks that run cards like Ledros that aren't punished by Ruination.
Consistenly Having Issues vs SI
I am struggling mightily against any half-decent SI player, and looking for some general advice on how to approach them. I've tried to take various approaches against SI decks adjusting for previous ways SI players have beaten me, and it's gotten to a point where I'm losing a majority of SI games one way or the other.
A major part of the problem for me is trying to "play around" Vengeance and Ruination primarily since I've gotten burned by either building powerful units to see them wiped away with a 7 mana fast spell. Also, finding myself falling behind by holding onto big units, trying not to overextend myself in the mid/late game (knowing that they can drop a Ruination once I've gained control), as they are amassing & building up units through value plays like Ravenous Butcher or Chronicler of Ruin + The Undying/Cursed Keeper, Shark Chariot, and Barkbeast, etc.
Most of my wins vs SI are with Noxus/Ionia hyper burn, applying as much pressure as I can early and hoping my early draws win me the match in the first 6-9 rounds which isn't fun or gratifying. Sometimes I'll simply disregard the existence of Ruination, hoping the other player doesn't draw one and get away with it but I lose a lot of games this way too.
Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Classically Trained - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread
Darn, I forgot to submit my entry. I guess I'll have to wait till next week :)
Good luck everybody!
WoW noob needs help
Ahm, about the story - Theodrinus is absolutely right, that there is no single central storyline. In fact, there are so many different major and side characters influenting major and small events, that imho it's not really possible to mention them all in the game. And there's also an alternative universe :D.
In the next paragraphs I would like to share my experience doing the Loremaster achievement in Wotlk (i.e. completing almost all of the quests in Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Outland and Northrend) and reading the quests I was doing. Imho the game doesn't inform the player that much about the lore. Most of the quests in the Classic regions tell you to kill this or that, to go somewhere and fetch something etc. Like, who cares if a farmer X has a beast/zombie/defias rogue problem in his back yard or if a random stranger wants you to bring some supplies in the nearest inn, because they are too tired or scared. Quests like these feel too generic and are in the game for the sake of you gaining experience to level up. The Classic quests give you a loose idea of what is happening in all corners of Azeroth, but if you want to learn more about the major characters, I'd suggest finding external sources - like reading the warcraft related books & comics or watching some videos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Nobbel87/videos
Some examples of vague storytelling in quests:
Back in TBC people didn't understand why they had to fight their beloved characters from Warcraft 3 and to kill them - Illidan and Kael'thas. It was way later explained in a book, that after his defeat in Northrend Illidan wanted to prepare an army against the burning legion and strike them down in their main domain, Argus (which was the former home of the Eredar before they went into exile, becoming the Draenei, or followed Sargeras, becoming the Man'ari). So he trained the Demon Hunters (Illidari), but he did so in secret, which led to the alienation of Akama. He didn't get his beloved sacred temple back as he was promised, he didn't understand what Illidan's plans were, so he viewed him as the legion's puppet and decided to betray him. He met Maiev, they decided to work together, Illidan eventually learnt of his duplicity, he ripped a portion of his soul and with it he tricked the Warden into a trap. And that's pretty much where the players came in - they learnt how Illidan kept Maiev hostage and Akama's soul under his command, how he terrorised the civilians in Outland (he captured orcs and turned them into fel orcs with Magtheridon's blood thus binding them to his will; he instructed Lady Vashj to seize control of the water reserves and to limit its supply to other creatures) and how he was raising an army of elven demon hunters in his own image for unknown reasons. So in TBC we saw him as a tyrant, as the villian of the expansion and thus the next kill target w/o knowing his true intentions. He just took drastic measures to mobilze the beings in Outland and send them against burning legion, because as the saying goes "the end justifies the means".
Another example, when the lore isn't mentioned in the game: In the Night Elf capital city Fandral Staghelm wants the players to bring him Morrowgrain for some goodies. It was revealed in a book, that he used that herb to keep Malfurion imprisoned in the Emerald Nightmare and planned to kill him later on.
As you can see, you shouldn't expect to learn everything important about the major characters by playing the MMO. You will only get a loose idea of what's happening in the WORLD of warcraft. But if you ignore the meaningless quests, you are going to explore a whole new world. You will see how people live there, what problems they have, what kind of creatures inhabit certain areas etc. You will be like the cameraman of a National Geographic documentaion film who only has a narrow understanding of what he's filming. Your narrator will be the quests you complete and those won't provide you with the full information of the things you encounter. If you want to get all of the references, you can watch lore-related videos or read the books and let your imagination flow.
That was my opinion based on the Classic quests, which were preserved in Wotlk. I must admit, that with the next two expansions the storytelling in the quests became better. In Outland and in Northrend I got to experience more lore-related missions than the typical "kill this, kill that" ones. Don't ask me how the storytelling evolved in the next expansions and how it is in current WoW. Theodrinus informed you about the world revamp. When Cata launched, most of the quests in the classic regions were changed (heck, how could they have stayed the same when the whole Azeroth got shattered by Deathwing's actions). And since I didn't play on retail, I don't have an opinion about this aspect. But I think that it improved - you'll get to experience some ingame events and cutscenes, which would make you feel more involved in the lore.