@Hydrafrog that may be because other people are running Kayn enough that your opponents are relying less on taunts. If Kayn disappears too much, taunts will come back and he will be more relevant.
I haven't tried odd demon hunter yet but I always liked odd rogue so I should probably give it a go. How's the carddraw after the nerf to skull?
Also, got a decklist by any chance?
You can start with the Tempostorm one, it's pretty decent. If mine keeps performing good I'll upload it.
Sometimes I take out the mini-pirate package (too fragile) for better 1 drops (Shadowhoof Slayer for tempo, Blazing Battlemage, Fire Fly) and better 3 drops against Priest/Druid/Warlock: good old Vicious Fledgling, even Dragonhawk Rider can deal some nice dmg if it survives the turn. Still debatable if Hench-Clan Thug is the definitive 3. Maybe not, he's much worse in DH than he was in Rogue because there you could set up Dagger in turn 2. I also don't let go of king Leeroy Jenkins in the 5 slot.
See? This is a nice flavor of Even/Odd decks. So flexible and no definitive closed lists like Std. And we didn't even mention real tech choices, like Chief Inspector.
As for card draw, you don't need so much since your tempo and finishers are pretty efficient. Still, we have at least 3 Outcast cards: a Consume Magic and 2 Crimson Sigil Runner.
Lucky me, I haven't played against this deck archetype yet. It sounds like an awful time.
I think the reason you haven't run into this archetype is because, despite the OP's sentiments, its not very good. There is TONS of removal in the meta now, so Teemo decks in general aren't very viable (which is a shame IMHO because he's the card that otherwise could really punish all these Toss decks). And Sejuani isn't that hot either--she actually is the most successful with decks that just use her L1 form as removal + a 5/6 overwhelm body, almost entirely ignoring her level up ability. She's just too slow to deal with the likes of aggro burn and Bannerman 2.0, and doesn't generate enough value to deal with the likes of Sea Monsters and Mill-kai.
I'd really like to see them put out "year of..." card packs for the wild and on going standard years. Being able to get a "grab bag" of cards from the varying sets from a year is pretty cool.
I gotta admit that the Warmaul Challenger is a bit of a crazy card. I dropped it against my opponent that had one and I had an Armorsmith on deck and the opponent conceded. It was pretty hilarious.
Kayn Sunfury is a fun little card, but honestly it is the weakest link in the deck. I replaced him with Illidari Felblade and didn't see a down count in my win rate.
Also Veteran Investigator also seems like a bad expedition card. You never want to give your opponent extra card draw.
I've never understood the logic behind this, myself. Of course, letting your opponent draw cards is generally disadvantageous. However, if I get to draw one at the same time, it pretty much cancels out, doesn't it? Only point I could see against this is if the opponent is running some sort of combo deck, which naturally benefits more from having a bigger hand than other decks.
True, but one in expeditions you don't have perfect decks. The other downside is that mirror card draw in "arena" type formats is bad because YOU are paying the up front mana cost for the card draw. Sure it could lead to finding a better card or better play, but chances are you're giving your opponent more options...and they don't even have to pay the 2 mana cost for it.
Long story short: Is it an auto-pass? Probably not. But it's definitely not an auto-pick either. If playing on curve it's not horrible, but you are giving your opponent the advantage to play the card with full mana. The only time mirror draws every saw the light of day in hearthstone were "mill" decks, and you saw how Blizzard handled that. (nerfed)
Hello again people! You guys seemed to like my previous WCDC spotlight, so I am doing it again. I am going to be trying to crunch these in before the end of the season. I decided to skip the treasure for now because I have no experience in those. Sorry for that, but I don't have any ideas how to review them. Instead, you get to see some copying cards. I chose this comp, so I really want to share some cards that fell under the radar that I thought deserved attention. Into the shadows!
Like last time, if you want to see more cards or check out the scores that these cards got, here is the link.
Quite literal! I love the "add a 1/1 copy of a minion" cards. They feel nice to play for me. This one is no exception! Cheap, you can set up a combo with Malygos or Edwin VanCleef. Or add two more copies of Legendary you got from another class to your hand. One of my favorite cards of this comp.
A less-controlled Splintergraft that adds a much cheaper and weaker copy of an enemy minion to your hand. It is an good card to play though, adding it when it dies at a later turn when the copy is playable versus add a huge copy to your hand, but let the bark rot for a turn. As someone who tried to make Gloop Sprayer work, I applaud you.
Cheap and the additional effect adds a vanilla minion to your hand. That is a great effect for Silence Priest. You can silence one of your "can't attack." minions, then adds an already silenced minion to your hand. Value!
Wow, another Priest card. Actually, there were 11 Priest cards made in this comp. I know that is their thing, but come on. That is 1/4 of the cards submitted. This one is the coolest one I have seen. Allidar adds a minion to your hand, and then if you are a totally big dragon (with a claw with the same durability than KNUCKLES MADE FROM TENTACLES and even less than a freaking STICK) you also get a copy on board. Even better if you get a big minion. I feel like this is a pretty good card and feels like Priest.
This card has some great Untapped Potential. (yes, I said it) For 2 mana, you can get a spell you played AND heal your face. Spell Druid could use this at anytime. How in Yogg's holy name did this get barely a 3 though?
Thank you guys for reading this. I will try to do 7 next time to show more. Tell me which comp to do next! Suggestions, comments, questions and concerns are always welcome. I'm a one-man band, so that will help me cater to you guys more. If you guys can share this to other people, that would be great! Happy voting for the finalists today. See you back in the shadows. Until next time, palaam ulit!
Lots of good intel on this. I am still waiting for Blizzard to do something about Demon Hunter's Hero Power though. Right out the gate, it gets the benefit of being an even deck, without the dedication. Throw in Justicar Trueheart and you and play with more face damage.
I'd suggest crafting Shadowjeweler Hanar ASAP so you can play with it before it ends up getting nerfed. That card will win you so many games when it just snowballs the early game.
Nerfed? I don't think so. The card is powerful, but the deck's winrate is not so high as to deserve a nerf.
A 2 mana 1/5 that can snowball the entire game isn't nerf worthy? Too many classes have no way to remove a 5 health minion on turn 2. Winrate of the deck has nothing to do with it. It's not fun to lose a game on turn 2 just because you have no answer to a 1/5 minion.
Expedition: round 7. During the trade, this happened:
I didn't have the card in the deck and it offers me to change it for something else. What am i supposed to do? I don't want the 8 spell, but at the same time i want the 5 mana minion (i have it already in my deck).
I will skip it, because i don't want to take a risk in trading MY 5 minion for the 8 spell (maybe they were placed in the wrong order)
EDIT: i clicked on the trade button, then click it again and now it shows me the correct placement: the real offer was MY 5 drop for the 8 spell. I noticed it because i wanted to accept the second offer, and i found out that it was bugged as well: the real offer was MY 6 mana spell for HIS 3 mana spell.
Moral of the story: pay attention during your expedition
It's one thing to replace a card - the different name helps make it clear that players should expect different behavior.
I'm inclined to disagree on this particular point - I pretty much never read card names during a match. The card image is the single most recognizable element to me, and the only one I need. Because they didn't change the image for Accelerated Purrsuit, I wasn't even aware it was a different card until I saw somebody pointing it out on the forums.
Maybe when odds return to normal, there will simply be fewer Deep decks and the whole thing will feel better.
I also have to disagree here. If an expedition archetype is badly balanced, its prevalence in the game mode doesn't affect its power level. The only difference is that you'll be annoyed by it less often, but the core problem persists. Getting your Deep bonus 10 cards earlier means you'll often be able to trigger it 2-3 rounds earlier than in constructed, which is quite a massive difference.
Also Veteran Investigator also seems like a bad expedition card. You never want to give your opponent extra card draw.
I've never understood the logic behind this, myself. Of course, letting your opponent draw cards is generally disadvantageous. However, if I get to draw one at the same time, it pretty much cancels out, doesn't it? Only point I could see against this is if the opponent is running some sort of combo deck, which naturally benefits more from having a bigger hand than other decks.
You're right about the art - it's a major part of the "recogniziability" of any card, and they should probably have changed it for the Purrsuit. But imagine if they left the name and the art the same and just changed the text - you'd be left wondering if they had rebalanced the constructed version without you noticing, etc., and it would be even worse if they changed the definition/helptext of a keyword. That would be very hard to notice, and very confusing for anyone not intimately familiar with patch notes, etc.
It's true that a less frequent broken thing is still a broken thing, but my point here is that when the Rising Tides champions show up less often, it will be harder to get some of the crazy combos like Nautilus/Maokai in Expeditions. That decrease in the likelihood of highly synergistic Champions impacts which archetypes you're shown and how your overall draft goes, so it's possible that specifically in this case, it will balance the problem out.
Finally, with respect to Veteran Investigator, you're right that in constructed, the reason to play a symmetric card draw effect would be that you're playing a deck for which drawing a card is somehow more valuable that the average deck (maybe it's a combo deck that just needs more draw, maybe it's a Twisted Fate deck that wants to upgrade him, etc.). But the original point is scoped to Expeditions, where you're unlikely to be able to build a deck where your draws are more valuable. I'm not sure Sykomyke is right that it's bad - it's a decent size for a 2-drop and it replaces itself in hand - but there are certainly much better 2-drops, and your opponent is getting a free card without having to play an "okay, but not great" 2-drop.
Of course, the other side of this is that you draft in packs of 3, and get random trades, so you may end up with him even if you're not excited to play him. I don't think I'd ever trade for Veteran Investigator, but I wouldn't auto-skip a 3 card pack simply because he's in it.
Not losing half your non-classic collection each yearly rotation is pretty compelling.
Probably off putting to new players I imagine. I hope Team 5 will provide wild card/pack rewards at some point if only to introduce/entice players to dabble in wild.
I agree, Demon Hunter feels viable but not oppressively so in Wild. I mainly play the Odd list these days but switch to an Aggro Keleseth list now and then. It's not incredibly strong, but games are fast and the class feels still fresh so I see how many wins I can net before the next round of nerfs hits.
- It’s cheap to keep updated. Good cards remain good for a loong time. It values your investment. I realize I’m unable to build any decent Std deck atm without crafting a ton of niche legendaries/epics. A good way to measure if a card is worth crafting is: “might it be good in Wild down the line?”
- Variety. It has its meta cheesy decks, obviously (hateful Quest Mages...) but also allows for amazing deckbuilding and fun decks. Exodia Paladin, Spell Yogg Hunter, 1000 types of OTK Druid and so much more.
- It’s easy to climb and reach your desired monthly goals. My 1st and only Legend rank was there. Now I get my Diamond 5 smoothly in the 1st 5 days
this a hundred times. specially the cheap part. many ppl are like but the reno decks are super expensive etc. well its expensive to craft it, but some decks even if u choose something like pirate warrior, once u craft it, the deck lasts ages, reno decks specially, and each expansion it only adds up like a card or two, very rarely u need more than 1600 dust to update the deck. playing wild is cheap and ppl that say standard is cheaper dont know what the hell they are talking about.
Top Hearthstone Decks To Get Your Ladder Climb Done Fast
@Hydrafrog that may be because other people are running Kayn enough that your opponents are relying less on taunts. If Kayn disappears too much, taunts will come back and he will be more relevant.
DH was a great addition to Wild
You can start with the Tempostorm one, it's pretty decent. If mine keeps performing good I'll upload it.
Sometimes I take out the mini-pirate package (too fragile) for better 1 drops (Shadowhoof Slayer for tempo, Blazing Battlemage, Fire Fly) and better 3 drops against Priest/Druid/Warlock: good old Vicious Fledgling, even Dragonhawk Rider can deal some nice dmg if it survives the turn. Still debatable if Hench-Clan Thug is the definitive 3. Maybe not, he's much worse in DH than he was in Rogue because there you could set up Dagger in turn 2. I also don't let go of king Leeroy Jenkins in the 5 slot.
See? This is a nice flavor of Even/Odd decks. So flexible and no definitive closed lists like Std. And we didn't even mention real tech choices, like Chief Inspector.
As for card draw, you don't need so much since your tempo and finishers are pretty efficient. Still, we have at least 3 Outcast cards: a Consume Magic and 2 Crimson Sigil Runner.
Top Hearthstone Decks To Get Your Ladder Climb Done Fast
The average player has average skill and thus hsreplay is entirely valid for them.
This thread is about what to ladder with. The audience for laddering is players with average skill.
Discussion of the meta at top ranks is clearly marked in other posts and has not claimed to include totem/murloc decks.
Why is Sejuani-Teemo a Thing?
I think the reason you haven't run into this archetype is because, despite the OP's sentiments, its not very good. There is TONS of removal in the meta now, so Teemo decks in general aren't very viable (which is a shame IMHO because he's the card that otherwise could really punish all these Toss decks). And Sejuani isn't that hot either--she actually is the most successful with decks that just use her L1 form as removal + a 5/6 overwhelm body, almost entirely ignoring her level up ability. She's just too slow to deal with the likes of aggro burn and Bannerman 2.0, and doesn't generate enough value to deal with the likes of Sea Monsters and Mill-kai.
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
I wont argue about liking a card, but I will say that Long Shadows is beyond, and I mean beyoooond, broken :D
I like Senseless Potion, good flavor on that card too!
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
Thanks!
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
Hey, thanks for the shout out!
I really like these. It gives the people who lost the competition a bit of extra self-esteem.
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
Thanks! So far I have done this one and How To Train Year Dragon. Yeah, I am pretty far behind, but I will get it done.
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
Woo honorable mention!
I think it would be neat to do taunt insect if you haven't already.
Reminder - Last Chance For 45 Pack Bundle Containing Year of the Dragon Hearthstone Packs
I'd really like to see them put out "year of..." card packs for the wild and on going standard years. Being able to get a "grab bag" of cards from the varying sets from a year is pretty cool.
Top Hearthstone Decks To Get Your Ladder Climb Done Fast
I gotta admit that the Warmaul Challenger is a bit of a crazy card. I dropped it against my opponent that had one and I had an Armorsmith on deck and the opponent conceded. It was pretty hilarious.
Top Hearthstone Decks To Get Your Ladder Climb Done Fast
Kayn Sunfury is a fun little card, but honestly it is the weakest link in the deck. I replaced him with Illidari Felblade and didn't see a down count in my win rate.
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
True, but one in expeditions you don't have perfect decks. The other downside is that mirror card draw in "arena" type formats is bad because YOU are paying the up front mana cost for the card draw. Sure it could lead to finding a better card or better play, but chances are you're giving your opponent more options...and they don't even have to pay the 2 mana cost for it.
Long story short: Is it an auto-pass? Probably not. But it's definitely not an auto-pick either. If playing on curve it's not horrible, but you are giving your opponent the advantage to play the card with full mana. The only time mirror draws every saw the light of day in hearthstone were "mill" decks, and you saw how Blizzard handled that. (nerfed)
Into the Shadows: Seeing Double?
Hello again people! You guys seemed to like my previous WCDC spotlight, so I am doing it again. I am going to be trying to crunch these in before the end of the season. I decided to skip the treasure for now because I have no experience in those. Sorry for that, but I don't have any ideas how to review them. Instead, you get to see some copying cards. I chose this comp, so I really want to share some cards that fell under the radar that I thought deserved attention. Into the shadows!
Like last time, if you want to see more cards or check out the scores that these cards got, here is the link.
Long Shadows by Elvaeyn
Quite literal! I love the "add a 1/1 copy of a minion" cards. They feel nice to play for me. This one is no exception! Cheap, you can set up a combo with Malygos or Edwin VanCleef. Or add two more copies of Legendary you got from another class to your hand. One of my favorite cards of this comp.
Snareweed Golem By ShadowsOfSense
A less-controlled Splintergraft that adds a much cheaper and weaker copy of an enemy minion to your hand. It is an good card to play though, adding it when it dies at a later turn when the copy is playable versus add a huge copy to your hand, but let the bark rot for a turn. As someone who tried to make Gloop Sprayer work, I applaud you.
Senseless Potion By JFK
Cheap and the additional effect adds a vanilla minion to your hand. That is a great effect for Silence Priest. You can silence one of your "can't attack." minions, then adds an already silenced minion to your hand. Value!
Allidar By RenoLord
Wow, another Priest card. Actually, there were 11 Priest cards made in this comp. I know that is their thing, but come on. That is 1/4 of the cards submitted. This one is the coolest one I have seen. Allidar adds a minion to your hand, and then if you are a totally big dragon (with a claw with the same durability than KNUCKLES MADE FROM TENTACLES and even less than a freaking STICK) you also get a copy on board. Even better if you get a big minion. I feel like this is a pretty good card and feels like Priest.
Ritual of Rejuvenation By KANSAS
This card has some great Untapped Potential. (yes, I said it) For 2 mana, you can get a spell you played AND heal your face. Spell Druid could use this at anytime. How in Yogg's holy name did this get barely a 3 though?
Honorable Mentions:
By Demonxz95 By MenacingBagel By Toble By Superkowboj1
OVERVIEW:
Thank you guys for reading this. I will try to do 7 next time to show more. Tell me which comp to do next! Suggestions, comments, questions and concerns are always welcome. I'm a one-man band, so that will help me cater to you guys more. If you guys can share this to other people, that would be great! Happy voting for the finalists today. See you back in the shadows. Until next time, palaam ulit!
A Weekend of Wild Decks Featuring Paladins, Priest, Rogue, and the Inspire Demon Hunter
Lots of good intel on this. I am still waiting for Blizzard to do something about Demon Hunter's Hero Power though. Right out the gate, it gets the benefit of being an even deck, without the dedication. Throw in Justicar Trueheart and you and play with more face damage.
What to craft for Secret Rogue?
A 2 mana 1/5 that can snowball the entire game isn't nerf worthy? Too many classes have no way to remove a 5 health minion on turn 2.
Winrate of the deck has nothing to do with it. It's not fun to lose a game on turn 2 just because you have no answer to a 1/5 minion.
DH was a great addition to Wild
I haven't tried odd demon hunter yet but I always liked odd rogue so I should probably give it a go. How's the carddraw after the nerf to skull?
Also, got a decklist by any chance?
What is your most unreasonable dislike of a deck?
If I may add to that, especially after you have just started playing that deck. I hate that aswell lo
Expeditions: trade bug
Expedition: round 7.
During the trade, this happened:
I didn't have the card in the deck and it offers me to change it for something else. What am i supposed to do?
I don't want the 8 spell, but at the same time i want the 5 mana minion (i have it already in my deck).
I will skip it, because i don't want to take a risk in trading MY 5 minion for the 8 spell (maybe they were placed in the wrong order)
EDIT: i clicked on the trade button, then click it again and now it shows me the correct placement: the real offer was MY 5 drop for the 8 spell. I noticed it because i wanted to accept the second offer, and i found out that it was bugged as well: the real offer was MY 6 mana spell for HIS 3 mana spell.
Moral of the story: pay attention during your expedition
EDIT EDIT: 7 wins :)
Anyone else think expeditions feel worse with Bilgewater?
You're right about the art - it's a major part of the "recogniziability" of any card, and they should probably have changed it for the Purrsuit. But imagine if they left the name and the art the same and just changed the text - you'd be left wondering if they had rebalanced the constructed version without you noticing, etc., and it would be even worse if they changed the definition/helptext of a keyword. That would be very hard to notice, and very confusing for anyone not intimately familiar with patch notes, etc.
It's true that a less frequent broken thing is still a broken thing, but my point here is that when the Rising Tides champions show up less often, it will be harder to get some of the crazy combos like Nautilus/Maokai in Expeditions. That decrease in the likelihood of highly synergistic Champions impacts which archetypes you're shown and how your overall draft goes, so it's possible that specifically in this case, it will balance the problem out.
Finally, with respect to Veteran Investigator, you're right that in constructed, the reason to play a symmetric card draw effect would be that you're playing a deck for which drawing a card is somehow more valuable that the average deck (maybe it's a combo deck that just needs more draw, maybe it's a Twisted Fate deck that wants to upgrade him, etc.). But the original point is scoped to Expeditions, where you're unlikely to be able to build a deck where your draws are more valuable. I'm not sure Sykomyke is right that it's bad - it's a decent size for a 2-drop and it replaces itself in hand - but there are certainly much better 2-drops, and your opponent is getting a free card without having to play an "okay, but not great" 2-drop.
Of course, the other side of this is that you draft in packs of 3, and get random trades, so you may end up with him even if you're not excited to play him. I don't think I'd ever trade for Veteran Investigator, but I wouldn't auto-skip a 3 card pack simply because he's in it.
What is your most unreasonable dislike of a deck?
For me, whatever I'm playing. I hate mirror matches, probably because of the idea of my opponent using their cards more efficiently than me.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
Have to agree.
Not losing half your non-classic collection each yearly rotation is pretty compelling.
Probably off putting to new players I imagine. I hope Team 5 will provide wild card/pack rewards at some point if only to introduce/entice players to dabble in wild.
DH was a great addition to Wild
I agree, Demon Hunter feels viable but not oppressively so in Wild. I mainly play the Odd list these days but switch to an Aggro Keleseth list now and then. It's not incredibly strong, but games are fast and the class feels still fresh so I see how many wins I can net before the next round of nerfs hits.
Wild players: how do you still enjoy it?
this a hundred times. specially the cheap part. many ppl are like but the reno decks are super expensive etc. well its expensive to craft it, but some decks even if u choose something like pirate warrior, once u craft it, the deck lasts ages, reno decks specially, and each expansion it only adds up like a card or two, very rarely u need more than 1600 dust to update the deck. playing wild is cheap and ppl that say standard is cheaper dont know what the hell they are talking about.
What is your most unreasonable dislike of a deck?
I dislike a lot of decks:
- Face hunter: boring to play, boring to play against
- Highlander decks: maybe they are powerful, but they are expensive and inconsistent.
- I don't play decks heavily using cards which generate random cards. I want to know what resources I have, not rely on some random shit.
- Anyth deck that's flooding the meta (Tempo DH now, Secret Paladin in the early days... whatever).
But well, all my dislikes are reasonable, aren't they? ;)