First off, powerful effects are fun. Second, people only started talking about this change after Shaman had gotten its time in the sun (Desert Hare Evolve stuff) when the mechanic had been around forever. And lastly this makes evolve effects and their ilk less friendly to new players by making the effects less obvious on the cards.
It just seems like a needless change all the way down.
this mechanic has been hated whenever it came into the meta. The only time when it wasn't broken was the first time Evolve was released because Nerubian Prophet and Thing from Below just weren't that op in combination with Evolve. When the Doppelgangster combo became meta it was equally hated (and that thing wasn't even due to cost reduction)
Conjurer's Calling Meta was godawful (and is just an offshoot of the same issue) and many people hated the Mogu mutate combo even before Tombs of Doom.
Lastly, it's not confusing to new players if they just update the UI to show that a card maintains the cost it was played as long as its on board. It's actually more consistent with any other mechanic this way (at least according to the zone law they explained a year ago, where cards will maintain their changes when moving forwards in zones and lose them when moving backwards)
maybe, just maybe they're using the brawl to playtest this thing
Or it was just a precaution to avoid evolve Shaman taking over the brawl meta as well.
Either way, it at least proves that the change is easily implemented, so maybe it'll go live for the rest of the game as well. Would kinda make the MOgu nerf pointless (although the card was still overpowered as just a 0-mana 3/4 anyways)
I wonder if they'd unnerf Conjurer's Calling if they really went through with this.
I just played a game of tawern brawl and witnessed the same. 0 mana minion from a gift which is a 5 drop normaly, played witchy lackey and resulted into a 1 drop.
Unfortunatelly I was able to make only 1 screenshot from the game history on the left. https://imgur.com/a/ACDFO0N
Minions show their original mana cost on board, but for the transform-effect the actual played mana cost is used.
dude these guys are retarded i swear, why dont just remove the shaman if u cry like that?, they cry about dragon's pack, let me tell u smthing when i play dragon's pack, the enemy most of the time does not struggle taking them out, take rogue for example, they take them out without playing a minion...
ye sure nabs, if its still not enough the nerf, why not asking to just remove shaman from the game ?? wtf do u want from it anymore ? make it useless? all classes has strengts and weaknesses, u remove the strenghts and u are left with weaknesess, can u stop? what about that druid unleashed dreames? i faced one and could not response thanks to his summoning, summoned 2-3 high stats dragons per round, could not beat him not even with shaman, what about necrium, Can u stop crying and just play the game?
I don't see a reason to hate these changes. They don't need to slaughter a class just because they had a op deck for a while. These nerfs won't kill shaman but still will drop its winrate. It can still be the strongest deck in the game but one deck always has to be the best, right? It will feel a lot more fair to play against and this is what matters.
Mogu nerf is a big one. The chances they play it for 0 mana with other bunch of other stuff is really low in the early game now.
Sludge Slurper was one of the best 1 drops in the game and helped shaman trade pretty well against aggro decks. Now it can't take down 2 health minions which is a big deal.
The only change I don't like is Corrupt Elementalist it still curves into galakrond. It should be 7 I beleive, but they don't want to kill the cards from new expansion so fast.
I have the feeling that this card do not need that. I mean if the problem is that it easily complete the quest, may take the quest 1 minion up to compensate.
On the other side, yes is a strong 1 mana minion, but not broken.
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
Grumble is not standard anymore and Barista is not as good as G., so you don't need to worry about this new possible infinite combo.
Well I think this is a major nerf. A 1-1 you can ignore and just develop a minion which will almost always trade fine. A 2-1 is more problematic since most early minions for my mage have 2 health (say an apprentice) so HP was always the better option.
Nerfing Corrupt Elementalist in indirectly nerfing Dragon's Pack since it can't be coin-to-curve back to back and that makes the 5 mana slot a little trickier and slower for Galakrond shaman. Only time will tell if Dragon's Pack maintains its high winrate post nerf.
I think lowering the health for Faceless Corruptor even to 3 just simply weakens the card too much. Team5's philosophy with the card might be as a value-trader to come back on board, similar to Oasis Surger. If this gets out of hand post nerf we can expect it to be the first card since [Hearthstone Card (caverns below) Not Found] to get the stick more than once.
The amalgam removal from battlegrounds is spot on. The number of times I just lose to massive amalgam with divine shield, taunt, and poisonous is just too much to bear. Removing bran might just make murlocs more manageable late game. Given that coldlight seer has been moved up a tier, maybe demons can make a comeback.
Would love to see battlegrounds shift power from tribe synergy to giving those poor guys with no tag a chance to shine.
Seriously, it annoys me to read the comments of this thread. So much negativity.
People are like "omg blizz has no clue", when time has told they usually know better than the community. Remember the overhype of cards like Troggzor the Earthinator?
I believe that touching THREE cards in a deck will obviously drop its winrate by a lot, even if those changes aren't big.
Plus, Faceless Corruptor trades way worse now, even if it's still a good card.
All I see here is that we're going to see another round of nerfs next month. It's good they acted quickly, but they need to be bolder with both nerfing and buffing. Just do it regularly instead of this once, maybe twice if we're lucky, per expansion.
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
i don't get why people would think it's a buff. The whole point of it was that Mogu could come down as early as turn 3 and just win the game instantly, now that's delayed to at least turn 4 or 5 while at the same time mostly giving out vanilla results which are at the very least easier to deal with than something like Al'Akir or Walking Fountain.
I don't even think it's worth inluding Mutate now, because it's just not as game-winning anymore. Corrupt Elementalist also got worse by evolving into a 7-drop, which are much weaker on average.
Fleshshaper will still see play, but the way it was meant to: as efficient removal against token decks.
all the nerfs are good, but I'm not sure they hit the right spots.
Corrupt Elementalist was more than needed, but it still doesn't beat the real problem in the Galakrond deck which is Dragon's Pack and because of how Shaman includes all INvokers that thing will still come down at 5 most of the time and win the game by itself.
Sludge Slurper was kind of surprising and I wish I had had the foresight to keep my extra copies. That being said this nerf was well deserved (and needed). If Shaman dropped this on turn one it was basically impossible to develop any relevant 1-drop...and even if you got a 1/3 there's still a 3/7 chance they just got a lacky that either kills that or at least turn Slurper into a 2/3.
I wish they made Faceless Corruptor a 5/3 (or 5/2) instead to maintain its status as pseudo removal for token decks
Mogu Fleshshaper is probably the best of the bunch. It completely eliminates the Mutate package for two reasons: It delays it to at least turn 5 and also really limits the pool of available outs in a pinch (only 1 taunt and most of the results are just vanillas except for Colossus)
Overall it should put Shaman down a little, but I feel like it's not going to be enough. Dragon's Pack will need to be adressed sooner or later.
The Battlegrounds stuff is pretty neat. No more Amalgam radically changes how synergies are approached, makes Ligthfang builds much more complicated....but it does mean that Demons and mechs will probably be the top tier contenders. Murlocs are basically done now that you can't rely on Amalgam for a big stat stick and with Seer at 3 we can't even snowball ahead fast enough.
At the same time only Murlocs can now get poisonous (outside of Maexxna) meaning that whoever can build a big beefy boi the fastest will most likely win (aka Demons and/or Mechs)
The Curator will be the only class that has an Amalgam from now on. Brann is also out, no double buffs. My bad, it's Brann the hero, not minion. Brann sometimes snowballs the early game so fast, it's nice to see him out, for now at least.
I like those constant updates on BG. It definitely feels like an alive mode they keep ironing out.
It's now a 1 mana cheaper sea giant with - 5/-4 in stats but with rush, with that comparison the card looks SO much weaker than it was I used to play zoo a lot casting a sea giant is easier said than done, yes it's a lot of stats but it normally comes up at least at turn 5.
and you need not only a big board, but also the mana to cast it. The nerf makes this card, much harder to play on a 3 v 3 board scenario this costs 3 instead of 1 and that's the most common scenario for this card.
It's as if blizzard intentionally give shaman the best cards, so they could nerve them later. Giving shaman the most OP rush theme galakron, when 'rush' is usually the keyword for hunter and warrior. Just look at warlock galakron, summon 2 imps and that almost doesn't do anything. And because the demon pool now is so bad, the galakron battlecry to summon random demons is arguably the worst. I once get a 0,1 demon and a flame imp from it. Warlock need so much help right now.
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
this mechanic has been hated whenever it came into the meta. The only time when it wasn't broken was the first time Evolve was released because Nerubian Prophet and Thing from Below just weren't that op in combination with Evolve. When the Doppelgangster combo became meta it was equally hated (and that thing wasn't even due to cost reduction)
Conjurer's Calling Meta was godawful (and is just an offshoot of the same issue) and many people hated the Mogu mutate combo even before Tombs of Doom.
Lastly, it's not confusing to new players if they just update the UI to show that a card maintains the cost it was played as long as its on board. It's actually more consistent with any other mechanic this way (at least according to the zone law they explained a year ago, where cards will maintain their changes when moving forwards in zones and lose them when moving backwards)
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
maybe, just maybe they're using the brawl to playtest this thing
Or it was just a precaution to avoid evolve Shaman taking over the brawl meta as well.
Either way, it at least proves that the change is easily implemented, so maybe it'll go live for the rest of the game as well. Would kinda make the MOgu nerf pointless (although the card was still overpowered as just a 0-mana 3/4 anyways)
I wonder if they'd unnerf Conjurer's Calling if they really went through with this.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Should have nerfed Dragon's Pack to +1/+1 or +1/+2.
Iksar's Legend Galakrond Rogue (Hearthstone Dev)
I was thinking for Assassinate but Evasive Wyrm looks really cool too
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
I just played a game of tawern brawl and witnessed the same. 0 mana minion from a gift which is a 5 drop normaly, played witchy lackey and resulted into a 1 drop.
Unfortunatelly I was able to make only 1 screenshot from the game history on the left. https://imgur.com/a/ACDFO0N
Minions show their original mana cost on board, but for the transform-effect the actual played mana cost is used.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
dude these guys are retarded i swear, why dont just remove the shaman if u cry like that?, they cry about dragon's pack, let me tell u smthing when i play dragon's pack, the enemy most of the time does not struggle taking them out, take rogue for example, they take them out without playing a minion...
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
ye sure nabs, if its still not enough the nerf, why not asking to just remove shaman from the game ?? wtf do u want from it anymore ? make it useless? all classes has strengts and weaknesses, u remove the strenghts and u are left with weaknesess, can u stop? what about that druid unleashed dreames? i faced one and could not response thanks to his summoning, summoned 2-3 high stats dragons per round, could not beat him not even with shaman, what about necrium, Can u stop crying and just play the game?
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
now it's basically Crystal Stag with a lesser requirement.
I don't get why they wouldn't just nerf it to 6 instead, but maybe they just really want it to exist.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Welcome to warriorstone.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
I don't see a reason to hate these changes. They don't need to slaughter a class just because they had a op deck for a while. These nerfs won't kill shaman but still will drop its winrate. It can still be the strongest deck in the game but one deck always has to be the best, right? It will feel a lot more fair to play against and this is what matters.
Mogu nerf is a big one. The chances they play it for 0 mana with other bunch of other stuff is really low in the early game now.
Sludge Slurper was one of the best 1 drops in the game and helped shaman trade pretty well against aggro decks. Now it can't take down 2 health minions which is a big deal.
The only change I don't like is Corrupt Elementalist it still curves into galakrond. It should be 7 I beleive, but they don't want to kill the cards from new expansion so fast.
Card Nerf - Sludge Slurper
I have the feeling that this card do not need that. I mean if the problem is that it easily complete the quest, may take the quest 1 minion up to compensate.
On the other side, yes is a strong 1 mana minion, but not broken.
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
Grumble is not standard anymore and Barista is not as good as G., so you don't need to worry about this new possible infinite combo.
Card Nerf - Sludge Slurper
Well I think this is a major nerf. A 1-1 you can ignore and just develop a minion which will almost always trade fine. A 2-1 is more problematic since most early minions for my mage have 2 health (say an apprentice) so HP was always the better option.
Card Nerf - Sludge Slurper
Like so many said, a fine nerf, but unexpected. I don't remember 1hp making a difference while being slaughtered by Galakrond, but ok.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Nerfing Corrupt Elementalist in indirectly nerfing Dragon's Pack since it can't be coin-to-curve back to back and that makes the 5 mana slot a little trickier and slower for Galakrond shaman. Only time will tell if Dragon's Pack maintains its high winrate post nerf.
I think lowering the health for Faceless Corruptor even to 3 just simply weakens the card too much. Team5's philosophy with the card might be as a value-trader to come back on board, similar to Oasis Surger. If this gets out of hand post nerf we can expect it to be the first card since [Hearthstone Card (caverns below) Not Found] to get the stick more than once.
The amalgam removal from battlegrounds is spot on. The number of times I just lose to massive amalgam with divine shield, taunt, and poisonous is just too much to bear. Removing bran might just make murlocs more manageable late game. Given that coldlight seer has been moved up a tier, maybe demons can make a comeback.
Would love to see battlegrounds shift power from tribe synergy to giving those poor guys with no tag a chance to shine.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Seriously, it annoys me to read the comments of this thread. So much negativity.
People are like "omg blizz has no clue", when time has told they usually know better than the community. Remember the overhype of cards like Troggzor the Earthinator?
I believe that touching THREE cards in a deck will obviously drop its winrate by a lot, even if those changes aren't big.
Plus, Faceless Corruptor trades way worse now, even if it's still a good card.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
So, they left Dragon's Pack alone and Faceless Corruptor is still busted. Oh, and they completely missed Necrium Apothecary.
All I see here is that we're going to see another round of nerfs next month. It's good they acted quickly, but they need to be bolder with both nerfing and buffing. Just do it regularly instead of this once, maybe twice if we're lucky, per expansion.
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
Mogu Flashshaper - Nerf or Buff?
i don't get why people would think it's a buff. The whole point of it was that Mogu could come down as early as turn 3 and just win the game instantly, now that's delayed to at least turn 4 or 5 while at the same time mostly giving out vanilla results which are at the very least easier to deal with than something like Al'Akir or Walking Fountain.
I don't even think it's worth inluding Mutate now, because it's just not as game-winning anymore. Corrupt Elementalist also got worse by evolving into a 7-drop, which are much weaker on average.
Fleshshaper will still see play, but the way it was meant to: as efficient removal against token decks.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
alright....so I'm torn.
all the nerfs are good, but I'm not sure they hit the right spots.
Corrupt Elementalist was more than needed, but it still doesn't beat the real problem in the Galakrond deck which is Dragon's Pack and because of how Shaman includes all INvokers that thing will still come down at 5 most of the time and win the game by itself.
Sludge Slurper was kind of surprising and I wish I had had the foresight to keep my extra copies. That being said this nerf was well deserved (and needed). If Shaman dropped this on turn one it was basically impossible to develop any relevant 1-drop...and even if you got a 1/3 there's still a 3/7 chance they just got a lacky that either kills that or at least turn Slurper into a 2/3.
I wish they made Faceless Corruptor a 5/3 (or 5/2) instead to maintain its status as pseudo removal for token decks
Mogu Fleshshaper is probably the best of the bunch. It completely eliminates the Mutate package for two reasons: It delays it to at least turn 5 and also really limits the pool of available outs in a pinch (only 1 taunt and most of the results are just vanillas except for Colossus)
Overall it should put Shaman down a little, but I feel like it's not going to be enough. Dragon's Pack will need to be adressed sooner or later.
The Battlegrounds stuff is pretty neat. No more Amalgam radically changes how synergies are approached, makes Ligthfang builds much more complicated....but it does mean that Demons and mechs will probably be the top tier contenders. Murlocs are basically done now that you can't rely on Amalgam for a big stat stick and with Seer at 3 we can't even snowball ahead fast enough.
At the same time only Murlocs can now get poisonous (outside of Maexxna) meaning that whoever can build a big beefy boi the fastest will most likely win (aka Demons and/or Mechs)
The Gift Exchange Tavern Brawl Returns!
Really scripted.*
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
The Curator will be the only class that has an Amalgam from now on. Brann is also out, no double buffs. My bad, it's Brann the hero, not minion. Brann sometimes snowballs the early game so fast, it's nice to see him out, for now at least.
I like those constant updates on BG. It definitely feels like an alive mode they keep ironing out.
Mogu Flashshaper - Nerf or Buff?
It's now a 1 mana cheaper sea giant with - 5/-4 in stats but with rush, with that comparison the card looks SO much weaker than it was I used to play zoo a lot casting a sea giant is easier said than done, yes it's a lot of stats but it normally comes up at least at turn 5.
and you need not only a big board, but also the mana to cast it. The nerf makes this card, much harder to play on a 3 v 3 board scenario this costs 3 instead of 1 and that's the most common scenario for this card.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
No Amalgam? Holy shit. BG will get interesting... and probably even more contested in terms of murlocs.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
It's as if blizzard intentionally give shaman the best cards, so they could nerve them later. Giving shaman the most OP rush theme galakron, when 'rush' is usually the keyword for hunter and warrior. Just look at warlock galakron, summon 2 imps and that almost doesn't do anything. And because the demon pool now is so bad, the galakron battlecry to summon random demons is arguably the worst. I once get a 0,1 demon and a flame imp from it. Warlock need so much help right now.