If Invoke was not part of a Battlecry Shaman would be fine. For one, Shudderwock and the Quest wouldn’t double the invokes leaving tons of pesky elementals to deal with. Most importantly though. Shaman gets to its final Galakrond the easiest because of how easily it can double invoke with Quest/Shudderwock. That doesn’t even include the minion who invoked twice.
TLDR: Battlecry invoke makes Shaman Galakrond the easiest to buff of all classes. This is what’s broken
These cards look pretty interesting. They all have insane potential to do some crazy things but I think the main problem with most of them is that they are just slow.
I am going to experiment with them because I am a timmy player and I get excited about interesting-but-sort-of-bad cards. I know that I will at least want to get that mill 10 guy for my graveyard recursion deck.
Hello dudes, I would like to start this thread with the purpose of finding a scientific explanation on how cards "Balance" is done in Hearthstone.
I will start with some example of inexplicable cards, I'll take in consideration their cost and stats to compare each others.
1° Example Cost: 4 Stats: 4/6 (10) = +1 EV - Taunt
Cost: 5 Stats: 10/12 (22) = +6 EV - Taunt
In this case, Dragon's Pack starts from a +5 EV from the average +1 EV of Saronite Chain Gang, but requires a condition to be played with buff as a double 5/6.
The question is: is it worth of a (5*) mana discount ? The answer is: "I don't think so".
We can compare it to Scion of Ruin Cost: 3 Stats: 9/6 (15) = +4,5 EV - Rush.
Seems fair enough?, but it's not. Because Scion of Ruin has minus 1,5 EV compared to Dragon's Pack. Which means that Dragon's Pack should get at least his cost increased by (1*) mana, or the buff decreased from +3/+3 to +2/+2
Anyway, the major problem is that only few classes can afford such big tempo plays. And as it seems, the real problem with either these two cards is the General Balance of the game.
More examples to come... Do you have some good one to explain? :)
Sure stat-wise it is still a great card, spend 5 and get 8-10 (and lose a minion...hopefully that was a 1-1) but the rush part is now less problematic since it will not trade as good as before. Can still remove an 8-8, say, a Mountain Giant. But basically the card loses 20% value which is a big hit to take for a card.
Indeed... but its sure one hell of a card. I'm still amazed to how come the devs printed it.... I mean, the other 5-cost faceless dudes are 3/3 , are too conditional and, besides that, this one still has RUSH!! When I first saw this card, my eyes tricked me, I could swear it was a legendary!! (The same way I saw the lightning breath costing 4 mana...)
This is not a buff. After the nerf it is only 1 less mana than sea giant, and anybody who has played sea giant knows that casting a sea giant is hard. You can evolve into a bigger minions now, but if you are going to play a 9 mana sea giant and then evolve it into a 10 mana card, is it really that much better than sea giant?
Sure stat-wise it is still a great card, spend 5 and get 8-10 (and lose a minion...hopefully that was a 1-1) but the rush part is now less problematic since it will not trade as good as before. Can still remove an 8-8, say, a Mountain Giant. But basically the card loses 20% value which is a big hit to take for a card.
People want galakrond shaman to be dead. But blizzard went with a slight nerf, which will knock down shaman a peg and it will not be as oppressive anymore but they didn't kill it... People just want nerfs to destroy their enemy not just knock down a peg or two... It is indeed stupid, but that is how people are.
Blizzard made sensible nerfs but community just underestimates how big of an impact a couple of small nerfs can have on a deck.
So based on others' comments and the announced nerfs, it does appear that this interaction is just a one-off rule for this specific brawl. That is personally really weird to me, but okay I guess.
My apologies for the false alarm/giving out false hope everyone!
Alright. I am going to try and evaluate the nerfs while being as not biased as I can be. Note, I am giving the ratings in relativity to the other nerfs, 5/5 doesn't mean that this is the best nerf ever, it just means this is my favorite of these nerfs.
I don't think this will break the inconsistency of Galakrond Shaman. It still invokes twice and it can still be played before turn 7 which means you can still get a fully invoked galakrond on turn 7 just as easily. but it does make curving into a Dragon's Pack way more difficult, and I think this was their primary concern. I give the nerf a 3/5.
Up until this point it was a no brainer putting Sludge Slurper into every deck. Now it is way worse to play this on turn one. Now it is just a combination of Wisp-ers of EVIL with overload (1). I don't think they killed the card, you will still want to play this with the quest, or if you are playing Weaponized Wasp. But now it won't be played in literally every shaman deck ever. I give this nerf a 5/5
Really, I don't think this changed much, this is still a very powerful card. I think changing the health would have been a much better nerf. Is this card supposed to turn a small guy into a solid minion? Or is it supposed to use your small minions as removal? If the first, than this was OK, if the second, then making it a 5/3 would have been better because you would smack something and then it would die. Really, I think we will just have to see how this plays out. 1/5
This is a nice change. Right now it is too easy to play Mogu Fleshshaper in any shaman deck. As long as you are fighting any deck that uses minions, then it is way too easy to make him cost 0. I think a better nerf would be to make him only cound friendlies, but this has a similar effect. Now you want to play this card in a swarm deck, not just any shaman deck. I give this nerf a 4/5, withholding the extra 1 because I think it could have been done slightly better.
Battlegrounds
The BoogeymonsterMoved from Tavern Tier 5 to Tavern Tier 4. This is fair, the boogeymonster never saw any play. At tier 5, not having any synergy or tribe is a huge disadvantage.
Mechano-EggMoved from Tavern Tier 5 to Tavern Tier 4. This is also fair, I have had a hard time in the past seeing the advantages of being a 0/5 and then an 8/8. Really this is just like a delayed 8/8, I just think it isn't impactful enough to warrant being T-5
The BeastMoved from Tavern Tier 4 to Tavern Tier 3. The beast is a bad card. In constructed, in battlegrounds, it is just bad. Moving it down a tier will help a ton.
Coldlight SeerMoved from Tavern Tier 2 to Tavern Tier 3. I guess the buff to murlocs was too much. This is fair, coldlight seer is just too good. If you get this on turn 3-4, you will win. a lot.
Primalfin Lookout (changed last week) Moved from Tavern Tier 4 to Tavern Tier 5. This change has been in effect for a week, and I must say this is a fair change. Getting this guy with a Brann Bronzebeard on the field is incredible. You are paying 3 mana so that you can sell 3 minions plus trigger their battlecries. I bought this guy whenever he came up even when I am not playing murlocs.
Nightmare AmalgamHas been removed from the pool of available minions. This is fair, this guy was way to central to every strategy. Hopefully with the nightmare being over we can see some more interesting strategies that isn't just 'I have a big guy'
Brann BronzebeardHas been removed from the pool of available heroes. This is fair. Brann is almost always picked, I will be glad to see him gone.
BartendotronHas been added to the pool of available heroes. Yay! bartendotron is a very fun and interesting hero to play. I will be glad to see him back.
Actually was thinking it could work with Bog Slosher, Baleful Banker, Youthful Brewmaster, and/or Sathrovarr. It wouldn't be as consistent, because you'd have to have a minion on board, or have Shudderwock summon a minion that is then transformed and shuffled into your deck or returned to your hand. Kind of want to try it, but obviously it's inconsistent as hell and would never work on ladder.
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
The combo is much less reliable than the old Saronite+Grumble one, and the payoff is much worse as well as this doesn't give you 1 cost Shudderwocks either, so at best "infinite" means playing 1 Shudderwock per turn for the rest of the game. But the bigger issue is the unreliability of the combo due to the extra hurdle of requiring bodies on board to transform into shudderwock copies: if you get your corruptor procs before you spawn your tokens, or if your barista procs before your tokens are tronsformed you're screwed.
The key missing component for infinite Shudderwock in standard is the double battlecry. This way, you will likely have a least one Shudderwock bounced/copied back. There is no more Murmuring Elemental, there is no Brann, no emperor Thaurissan. The quest would only be reliable if you had Thaurissan (to discount Shudderwock or Fencing Coach).
Without this, you rely heavily on The Coin, which is an awful strategy (better just play Galakrond and fill the board with rush minions).
Did this day 1 and can confirm that it sucks. I used a Galakrond package to survive and then mill them to death with Utgarde Grapplesniper and Body Wrappers to refill. (You could use Lifedrinkers, but thats not gimmicky enough)
Most of the time you beat your opponent to death before the infinite part even plays a factor. Then I did it without a Gally package and got beat down by everything. So yeah.
Hello there! Your hand is never very big. You'll find you burn down just a little slower than the decks you're beating up, and then rely on your eight sources of draw or generation to pull you back out. Against aggro, Thaurissan would be useless because you have two or three cards, and against control, your hand isn't the sort of stuff that can scare them, anyway, so why bother making it cheaper to begin with? It's not your prey, so you're probably a dead man. Get used to that.
Frizz is mainly there to give you more gas against the non-control decks that you don't prey on. For example, I just got out of a game where I coined Frizz out turn 3, then hit Kaahrj on a Big Rogue's Kel'Thuzad turn 4. This tempo burst was slowly eaten by the rogue, who was forced on the defensive because my 3/3 was suddenly reviving himself, but Frizz's discounts allowed me to eviscerate twice after a Secret Agent to claim the win.
Rambling aside, Frizz just increases the number of outs you have by making it possible to weave more plays together with your cheaper topdecks. This helps to flatten out your poor matchups by letting you run away with nonsense wins from nonsense plays. If you cut her and go for another targeted hate card, you'll simply have higher highs and lower lows than I do, and if that's okay with you, go for it.
Second, people only started talking about this change after Shaman had gotten its time in the sun (Desert Hare Evolve stuff) when the mechanic had been around forever.
And lastly this makes evolve effects and their ilk less friendly to new players by making the effects less obvious on the cards.
First off, powerful "fair" effects are always welcome. Nobody's arguing about Antonidas or Alexstraza indeed. Players are talking about "Cheating": mutate 1 mana in an 8/8 is not the definition of fun, especially if 68% of the playerbase abuse of it.
Second, "people" started talking about Mountain Giant years a go. But you probably haven't started playing yet.
Lastly, I don't think new players cares about this mechanic just because it's "meta".
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
The combo is much less reliable than the old Saronite+Grumble one, and the payoff is much worse as well as this doesn't give you 1 cost Shudderwocks either, so at best "infinite" means playing 1 Shudderwock per turn for the rest of the game. But the bigger issue is the unreliability of the combo due to the extra hurdle of requiring bodies on board to transform into shudderwock copies: if you get your corruptor procs before you spawn your tokens, or if your barista procs before your tokens are tronsformed you're screwed.
The key missing component for infinite Shudderwock in standard is the double battlecry. This way, you will likely have a least one Shudderwock bounced/copied back. There is no more Murmuring Elemental, there is no Brann, no emperor Thaurissan. The quest would only be reliable if you had Thaurissan (to discount Shudderwock or Fencing Coach).
Without this, you rely heavily on The Coin, which is an awful strategy (better just play Galakrond and fill the board with rush minions).
Honestly pretty amused at the cluelessness in this thread. Not much point re-hashing old points, though, so may as well just leave the posts to ripen, so I can pull them out in two months' time and shine a spotlight on how aggressively foolish they are.
On the topic of HSBG, though, there's actually some interesting stuff happening there. The blanket Murloc nerfs seem a little bit overkill, but we'll see. Amalgam being removed should shake up the meta pretty significantly... in theory. The problem is, HSBG really doesn't have much depth to it right now. Even if you nerfed Murloc into non-viability, there's then what, two viable comps? Three if you count the typically underperforming Demon. That's really not enough for 8 players, in my view, and hasn't been for some time now (since people learning how to play has trickled down the rankings some).
Right now, the game feels like 6 people flailing for Murlocs, and whoever lucks out and gets the most picks up the win (while the two people who didn't go for them get stomped). But really, I feel like that's always going to be the case - just changing Murloc for whatever comp is strong at that time. Compare to TFT, where there's dozens of -potential- comps, even if a handful are generally on the stronger side, and you can see my concern at oversimplification.
I think they wanted to make the cards worse in general, but good in certain decks. Now sludge slurper and mogu fleshshaper aren't necessarily autoinclude cards in any shaman build. Running quest in galakrond shaman makes it slower, and if you don't run quest you don't really need sludge slurper anymore. Mogu now requires more minions on board to be effective, which should be harder to achieve in galakrond shaman, especially with the corrupt elementalist nerf. Without mogu, you don't need mutate in the deck as well, leaving space for different cards in the deck. I think the nerf will be effective in distributing the power level of shaman across different deck archetypes, making it less opressive and easier to counter. The only things I'm concerned with are faceless corruptor still being too good not to see play in any deck that can easily generate small tokens and that necrium apothecary wasn't touched at all.
I'm actually wondering how long it'll take someone to make this work in an infinite Shudderwock deck again. Surprised Blizzard went and made this mistake again after having to nerf Saronite Chain Gang. Admittedly, it's a bit too slow for the current meta, but things can change with nerfs incoming.
The combo is much less reliable than the old Saronite+Grumble one, and the payoff is much worse as well as this doesn't give you 1 cost Shudderwocks either, so at best "infinite" means playing 1 Shudderwock per turn for the rest of the game. But the bigger issue is the unreliability of the combo due to the extra hurdle of requiring bodies on board to transform into shudderwock copies: if you get your corruptor procs before you spawn your tokens, or if your barista procs before your tokens are transformed you're screwed.
Hi Siegfrieddo. Thanks for your comment. I'll definitely update it as I go. Played a few games over the last couple of days with a slightly differend list and it feels pretty good (Low ranks, 9-4 atm).
If i remember correctly, this always was the case at this specifical brawl.
I do agree. Last time I remember being surprise by the evolve not evolving correctly. This, has such a huge impact and if they are able to do it during a brawl event they can do it for ladder.
The Balance in HS
Seems an interesting take on things. I do think EV on dragons pack is 1 too much. Thoughts
Fun Warlock Brawl
Glad you enjoy it!
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
If Invoke was not part of a Battlecry Shaman would be fine. For one, Shudderwock and the Quest wouldn’t double the invokes leaving tons of pesky elementals to deal with. Most importantly though. Shaman gets to its final Galakrond the easiest because of how easily it can double invoke with Quest/Shudderwock. That doesn’t even include the minion who invoked twice.
TLDR: Battlecry invoke makes Shaman Galakrond the easiest to buff of all classes. This is what’s broken
The Balance in HS
What does EV mean?
MTG Arena - Theros: Beyond Death Card Spoilers December 18
These cards look pretty interesting. They all have insane potential to do some crazy things but I think the main problem with most of them is that they are just slow.
I am going to experiment with them because I am a timmy player and I get excited about interesting-but-sort-of-bad cards. I know that I will at least want to get that mill 10 guy for my graveyard recursion deck.
The Balance in HS
MANA COMPENDIVM
Hello dudes,
I would like to start this thread with the purpose of finding a scientific explanation on how cards "Balance" is done in Hearthstone.
I will start with some example of inexplicable cards, I'll take in consideration their cost and stats to compare each others.
1° Example
Cost: 4
Stats: 4/6 (10) = +1 EV - Taunt
Cost: 5
Stats: 10/12 (22) = +6 EV - Taunt
In this case, Dragon's Pack starts from a +5 EV from the average +1 EV of Saronite Chain Gang, but requires a condition to be played with buff as a double 5/6.
The question is: is it worth of a (5*) mana discount ?
The answer is: "I don't think so".
We can compare it to Scion of Ruin
Cost: 3
Stats: 9/6 (15) = +4,5 EV - Rush.
Seems fair enough?, but it's not. Because Scion of Ruin has minus 1,5 EV compared to Dragon's Pack. Which means that Dragon's Pack should get at least his cost increased by (1*) mana, or the buff decreased from +3/+3 to +2/+2
Anyway, the major problem is that only few classes can afford such big tempo plays. And as it seems, the real problem with either these two cards is the General Balance of the game.
More examples to come... Do you have some good one to explain? :)
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
Indeed... but its sure one hell of a card. I'm still amazed to how come the devs printed it.... I mean, the other 5-cost faceless dudes are 3/3 , are too conditional and, besides that, this one still has RUSH!! When I first saw this card, my eyes tricked me, I could swear it was a legendary!! (The same way I saw the lightning breath costing 4 mana...)
Mogu Flashshaper - Nerf or Buff?
This is not a buff. After the nerf it is only 1 less mana than sea giant, and anybody who has played sea giant knows that casting a sea giant is hard. You can evolve into a bigger minions now, but if you are going to play a 9 mana sea giant and then evolve it into a 10 mana card, is it really that much better than sea giant?
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
Sure stat-wise it is still a great card, spend 5 and get 8-10 (and lose a minion...hopefully that was a 1-1) but the rush part is now less problematic since it will not trade as good as before. Can still remove an 8-8, say, a Mountain Giant. But basically the card loses 20% value which is a big hit to take for a card.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
People want galakrond shaman to be dead. But blizzard went with a slight nerf, which will knock down shaman a peg and it will not be as oppressive anymore but they didn't kill it... People just want nerfs to destroy their enemy not just knock down a peg or two... It is indeed stupid, but that is how people are.
Blizzard made sensible nerfs but community just underestimates how big of an impact a couple of small nerfs can have on a deck.
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
So based on others' comments and the announced nerfs, it does appear that this interaction is just a one-off rule for this specific brawl. That is personally really weird to me, but okay I guess.
My apologies for the false alarm/giving out false hope everyone!
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
I was thinking 3/4 or even better 4/3, but well, it's something.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Alright. I am going to try and evaluate the nerfs while being as not biased as I can be. Note, I am giving the ratings in relativity to the other nerfs, 5/5 doesn't mean that this is the best nerf ever, it just means this is my favorite of these nerfs.
Shaman Nerfs
Corrupt Elementalist cost is now 6 (up from 5).
I don't think this will break the inconsistency of Galakrond Shaman. It still invokes twice and it can still be played before turn 7 which means you can still get a fully invoked galakrond on turn 7 just as easily. but it does make curving into a Dragon's Pack way more difficult, and I think this was their primary concern. I give the nerf a 3/5.
Sludge Slurper attack is now 1 (down from 2)
Up until this point it was a no brainer putting Sludge Slurper into every deck. Now it is way worse to play this on turn one. Now it is just a combination of Wisp-ers of EVIL with overload (1). I don't think they killed the card, you will still want to play this with the quest, or if you are playing Weaponized Wasp. But now it won't be played in literally every shaman deck ever. I give this nerf a 5/5
Faceless Corruptor attack is now 4 (down from 5).
Really, I don't think this changed much, this is still a very powerful card. I think changing the health would have been a much better nerf. Is this card supposed to turn a small guy into a solid minion? Or is it supposed to use your small minions as removal? If the first, than this was OK, if the second, then making it a 5/3 would have been better because you would smack something and then it would die. Really, I think we will just have to see how this plays out. 1/5
Mogu Fleshshaper cost is now 9 (up from 7).
This is a nice change. Right now it is too easy to play Mogu Fleshshaper in any shaman deck. As long as you are fighting any deck that uses minions, then it is way too easy to make him cost 0. I think a better nerf would be to make him only cound friendlies, but this has a similar effect. Now you want to play this card in a swarm deck, not just any shaman deck. I give this nerf a 4/5, withholding the extra 1 because I think it could have been done slightly better.
Battlegrounds
The Boogeymonster Moved from Tavern Tier 5 to Tavern Tier 4. This is fair, the boogeymonster never saw any play. At tier 5, not having any synergy or tribe is a huge disadvantage.
Mechano-Egg Moved from Tavern Tier 5 to Tavern Tier 4. This is also fair, I have had a hard time in the past seeing the advantages of being a 0/5 and then an 8/8. Really this is just like a delayed 8/8, I just think it isn't impactful enough to warrant being T-5
The Beast Moved from Tavern Tier 4 to Tavern Tier 3. The beast is a bad card. In constructed, in battlegrounds, it is just bad. Moving it down a tier will help a ton.
Coldlight Seer Moved from Tavern Tier 2 to Tavern Tier 3. I guess the buff to murlocs was too much. This is fair, coldlight seer is just too good. If you get this on turn 3-4, you will win. a lot.
Primalfin Lookout (changed last week) Moved from Tavern Tier 4 to Tavern Tier 5. This change has been in effect for a week, and I must say this is a fair change. Getting this guy with a Brann Bronzebeard on the field is incredible. You are paying 3 mana so that you can sell 3 minions plus trigger their battlecries. I bought this guy whenever he came up even when I am not playing murlocs.
Nightmare Amalgam Has been removed from the pool of available minions. This is fair, this guy was way to central to every strategy. Hopefully with the nightmare being over we can see some more interesting strategies that isn't just 'I have a big guy'
Brann Bronzebeard Has been removed from the pool of available heroes. This is fair. Brann is almost always picked, I will be glad to see him gone.
Bartendotron Has been added to the pool of available heroes. Yay! bartendotron is a very fun and interesting hero to play. I will be glad to see him back.
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
Actually was thinking it could work with Bog Slosher, Baleful Banker, Youthful Brewmaster, and/or Sathrovarr. It wouldn't be as consistent, because you'd have to have a minion on board, or have Shudderwock summon a minion that is then transformed and shuffled into your deck or returned to your hand. Kind of want to try it, but obviously it's inconsistent as hell and would never work on ladder.
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
Did this day 1 and can confirm that it sucks. I used a Galakrond package to survive and then mill them to death with Utgarde Grapplesniper and Body Wrappers to refill. (You could use Lifedrinkers, but thats not gimmicky enough)
Most of the time you beat your opponent to death before the infinite part even plays a factor. Then I did it without a Gally package and got beat down by everything. So yeah.
Countarrred! - Wild dragon priest teched against pirates and burn
Hello there! Your hand is never very big. You'll find you burn down just a little slower than the decks you're beating up, and then rely on your eight sources of draw or generation to pull you back out. Against aggro, Thaurissan would be useless because you have two or three cards, and against control, your hand isn't the sort of stuff that can scare them, anyway, so why bother making it cheaper to begin with? It's not your prey, so you're probably a dead man. Get used to that.
Frizz is mainly there to give you more gas against the non-control decks that you don't prey on. For example, I just got out of a game where I coined Frizz out turn 3, then hit Kaahrj on a Big Rogue's Kel'Thuzad turn 4. This tempo burst was slowly eaten by the rogue, who was forced on the defensive because my 3/3 was suddenly reviving himself, but Frizz's discounts allowed me to eviscerate twice after a Secret Agent to claim the win.
Rambling aside, Frizz just increases the number of outs you have by making it possible to weave more plays together with your cheaper topdecks. This helps to flatten out your poor matchups by letting you run away with nonsense wins from nonsense plays. If you cut her and go for another targeted hate card, you'll simply have higher highs and lower lows than I do, and if that's okay with you, go for it.
Countarrred! - Wild dragon priest teched against pirates and burn
How big is your hand size? Would Thaurissan stand in if you don’t have Frizz
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
First off, powerful "fair" effects are always welcome. Nobody's arguing about Antonidas or Alexstraza indeed.
Players are talking about "Cheating": mutate 1 mana in an 8/8 is not the definition of fun, especially if 68% of the playerbase abuse of it.
Second, "people" started talking about Mountain Giant years a go. But you probably haven't started playing yet.
Lastly, I don't think new players cares about this mechanic just because it's "meta".
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
The key missing component for infinite Shudderwock in standard is the double battlecry. This way, you will likely have a least one Shudderwock bounced/copied back. There is no more Murmuring Elemental, there is no Brann, no emperor Thaurissan. The quest would only be reliable if you had Thaurissan (to discount Shudderwock or Fencing Coach).
Without this, you rely heavily on The Coin, which is an awful strategy (better just play Galakrond and fill the board with rush minions).
Card Nerf - Sludge Slurper
Poor murloc guy... this nerf was completely unnecessary.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
Honestly pretty amused at the cluelessness in this thread. Not much point re-hashing old points, though, so may as well just leave the posts to ripen, so I can pull them out in two months' time and shine a spotlight on how aggressively foolish they are.
On the topic of HSBG, though, there's actually some interesting stuff happening there. The blanket Murloc nerfs seem a little bit overkill, but we'll see. Amalgam being removed should shake up the meta pretty significantly... in theory. The problem is, HSBG really doesn't have much depth to it right now. Even if you nerfed Murloc into non-viability, there's then what, two viable comps? Three if you count the typically underperforming Demon. That's really not enough for 8 players, in my view, and hasn't been for some time now (since people learning how to play has trickled down the rankings some).
Right now, the game feels like 6 people flailing for Murlocs, and whoever lucks out and gets the most picks up the win (while the two people who didn't go for them get stomped). But really, I feel like that's always going to be the case - just changing Murloc for whatever comp is strong at that time. Compare to TFT, where there's dozens of -potential- comps, even if a handful are generally on the stronger side, and you can see my concern at oversimplification.
Details on Upcoming Card Nerfs & Battlegrounds Changes - December 19 Patch Notes
I think they wanted to make the cards worse in general, but good in certain decks. Now sludge slurper and mogu fleshshaper aren't necessarily autoinclude cards in any shaman build. Running quest in galakrond shaman makes it slower, and if you don't run quest you don't really need sludge slurper anymore. Mogu now requires more minions on board to be effective, which should be harder to achieve in galakrond shaman, especially with the corrupt elementalist nerf. Without mogu, you don't need mutate in the deck as well, leaving space for different cards in the deck. I think the nerf will be effective in distributing the power level of shaman across different deck archetypes, making it less opressive and easier to counter. The only things I'm concerned with are faceless corruptor still being too good not to see play in any deck that can easily generate small tokens and that necrium apothecary wasn't touched at all.
Card Nerf - Faceless Corruptor
The combo is much less reliable than the old Saronite+Grumble one, and the payoff is much worse as well as this doesn't give you 1 cost Shudderwocks either, so at best "infinite" means playing 1 Shudderwock per turn for the rest of the game. But the bigger issue is the unreliability of the combo due to the extra hurdle of requiring bodies on board to transform into shudderwock copies: if you get your corruptor procs before you spawn your tokens, or if your barista procs before your tokens are transformed you're screwed.
Four Horsemen riding the Dragon
Hi Siegfrieddo. Thanks for your comment.
I'll definitely update it as I go. Played a few games over the last couple of days with a slightly differend list and it feels pretty good (Low ranks, 9-4 atm).
THEY CHANGED EVOLVE!!!
I do agree. Last time I remember being surprise by the evolve not evolving correctly. This, has such a huge impact and if they are able to do it during a brawl event they can do it for ladder.