Haha this is what would happen to me if I played that deck. Every time! I do agree that discounted cards interact poorly with cards that take their cost into effect once in play. This has been a problem in several cases and while the Shaman deck isn't tier 1 it is one of those situations where high rolling into a Gruul on turn 4 for example just feels bad to play against. In a game where fun is the goal unfun plays are a big problem often more important to fix than really powerful decks. For example see Big Priest in wild which is not a t1 deck but is just really unfun to play against while a lot of the other t1 wild decks are more fun to play against
I got ripped for saying this same thing in another thread. But yes, I 100% agree. I got killed by a turn 4 Tirion in two straight games. Feels bad. They also have that transform lackey that can do the same thing for 1 more mana, so its even easier to pull off.
The daily quests definitely need some changes. After the tweak to the rewards a while back, some of the easiest quests [Win 1 game with X or Y class] give the same amount of gold as [Win two with X class], which is plainly out of whack in terms of difficulty. Hell, even the 60 reward quests don't feel as rewarding considering you have to expend three times as much effort to get 10 gold more compared to these easy 50 gold quests.
Rewards aside, it feels like there's just too many quests related to winning with specific classes: a lot of these are redundant, and the large number of these means that other types of quest don't come up as frequently. Then there's the argument against more specific quests like playing pirates, secrets, elementals, etc. that you'd often have to build a deck just to complete the quest, and many players just want to play ladder and get their gold.
I don't think there's a perfect solution here that would please everyone (other than perhaps infinite rerolls on quests), but personally I'd like to see the number of [win with class] quests trimmed down and some of the lamer type-specific quests like [play 6 pirates] removed as well. I wouldn't mind the introduction of set-specific quests (for the duration of that set) either, EG you could have quests relating to mummies, reborn minions, quests, highlander decks, etc. for Uldum.
You’ve probably seen how some people really don’t like the brawl quests, and just auto reroll them every time. Imagine rerolling into another quest you couldn’t do.
New quests would need to be something easy to complete that doesn’t revolve around specific expansions. That’s why the tribal ones work, and the odd/even. They aren’t tied exclusively to an expansion. Preferably you’d want whatever new quest to be possible to complete purely through the classic set as well.0
Well you could save the quest and reroll again the next day? I guess I just have a different feeling about what the quests "should" be - I don't think they should be "easy" because then what's even the point? Oh I got the pirate quest - let me throw every pirate I have into some trash deck, play it once to drop them all, and then move back to decks I actually want to play. That doesn't really feel like the quest is idk "part" of the game as much a box to tick and get the gold before moving back to the "real" game.
I mean there's no "right" answer to the question. I was just curious if I was alone in thinking this about the quests and was curious what other people thought.
I just won a match because I was able to get a Grommash Hellscream on turn 4.
I don't think the combo is too oppressive because it is inconsistent, but when you pull it off it can be devastating. I do think they should change the way it works because losing to that combo just feels so bad, even if it doesn't happen often.
Lost to a shaman who dropped Mogu on turn 3 and mutated into Gruul. I conceded turn 4. Felt SUPER bad for me, but this is not an incredibly common occurrence. I wouldn't mind a nerf to that guy, but I don't know if it's needed yet.
I'm becoming more and more inclined to agree. A card like mutate is totally fine when you're evolving an understatted battlecry like giggling inventor or Former Champ, because at least there you played the full price for the minion before evolving it, but as soon as discounted minions enter the equation the amount of stats you can cheat out early becomes too oppressive. Conjurer's wouldn't have had to be nerfed without the Giant Brothers also existing in the same meta. Likewise, Mogu would be fair, a little underwhelming even, without the ability to morph it into an 8-drop well before turn 8.
The daily quests definitely need some changes. After the tweak to the rewards a while back, some of the easiest quests [Win 1 game with X or Y class] give the same amount of gold as [Win two with X class], which is plainly out of whack in terms of difficulty. Hell, even the 60 reward quests don't feel as rewarding considering you have to expend three times as much effort to get 10 gold more compared to these easy 50 gold quests.
Rewards aside, it feels like there's just too many quests related to winning with specific classes: a lot of these are redundant, and the large number of these means that other types of quest don't come up as frequently. Then there's the argument against more specific quests like playing pirates, secrets, elementals, etc. that you'd often have to build a deck just to complete the quest, and many players just want to play ladder and get their gold.
I don't think there's a perfect solution here that would please everyone (other than perhaps infinite rerolls on quests), but personally I'd like to see the number of [win with class] quests trimmed down and some of the lamer type-specific quests like [play 6 pirates] removed as well. I wouldn't mind the introduction of set-specific quests (for the duration of that set) either, EG you could have quests relating to mummies, reborn minions, quests, highlander decks, etc. for Uldum.
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
You’ve probably seen how some people really don’t like the brawl quests, and just auto reroll them every time. Imagine rerolling into another quest you couldn’t do.
New quests would need to be something easy to complete that doesn’t revolve around specific expansions. That’s why the tribal ones work, and the odd/even. They aren’t tied exclusively to an expansion. Preferably you’d want whatever new quest to be possible to complete purely through the classic set as well.0
That's a great point. Wild also contains more quests you can steal, plus Justicar Trueheart, Baku and Genn, and the Death Knights. Come to think of it, unless you're running a deck that works to improve your hero power yourself, the Spelleater would likely provide good value in many circumstances in wild.
I would love to see more about some of the previous expansions. The adventures (RIP) seem to have plenty of story that could edutain those of us who didn't/don't play WOW. Nax and BRM from when the game still carried the "Heroes of Warcraft" tag would be fun.
I liked Dungeon Run the most and Dalaran Heist was pretty similiar so i gues it comes second - followed by Monster Hunt (was pretty short but still sweet - at least for me it was pretty short - Monster Hunt was the Solo Adventure i finished at first try with every class :) )
But i also liked the Flavour of League of Explorers and One Night in Karazhan - Boom Labs was pretty cool but not realy replayable so i guess it will earn last place - even tough some of the Puzzles were realy fun :)
Well i guess there´s only one kind of Quest (at least one i can think of now) that i always hate getting and it's Quests that are Brawl related - most of the time i only play the Brawl for as long as i won one to get the cardpack but allways reroll the quest with win 3 Tavern Brawls etc.
Some brawls are ok but most of the time i do not like them or at least i favour to play Standard Ladder instead and think the Brawl takes out my Gaming Time on the Ladder - if this makes any sense :) :)
Well there are some Quests you get on the beginning of a New Expansion but i get what you are saying - i think it could be kinda cool to have more expansion related Quests for at least 1 Week after the expansion.
Part of the problem with adding new quests like you mentioned for Boomsday or Uldum would be they’d Ben somewhat locked begin having more cards for that expansion (Magnetize probably isn’t coming back for awhile, and new players won’t have any quest cards)
That's kind of my point about having them roll the quests with each new expansion - you'd get the current expansion's daily quests more while they were new, and then drop off once the next one launched. So it wouldn't "matter" as much if you joined HS after a particular expansion. And for new people not having quests, etc. that's fair, but I guess in that case you could just reroll or wait - sort of like how people who don't have a lot of friends might have to reroll the "play a friend"/"watch a friend win" quests or how you'd probably wait on the "win 3 tavern brawls" quest if it was a week where you hated the brawl (looking at you, Brawlesium...)
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Haha this is what would happen to me if I played that deck. Every time! I do agree that discounted cards interact poorly with cards that take their cost into effect once in play. This has been a problem in several cases and while the Shaman deck isn't tier 1 it is one of those situations where high rolling into a Gruul on turn 4 for example just feels bad to play against. In a game where fun is the goal unfun plays are a big problem often more important to fix than really powerful decks. For example see Big Priest in wild which is not a t1 deck but is just really unfun to play against while a lot of the other t1 wild decks are more fun to play against
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I got ripped for saying this same thing in another thread. But yes, I 100% agree. I got killed by a turn 4 Tirion in two straight games. Feels bad. They also have that transform lackey that can do the same thing for 1 more mana, so its even easier to pull off.
Gilnean Royal Guard
My duty is to the king!
FOR DAH KING!
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Mogu Fleshshaper into Hir'eek, the Bat totally OP, Blizzard please nerf.
Sorry guys, I had to.
Will you buy tombs of terror?
Nope, the new adventures suck imo
Wich is your Favourite Adventure?
Tier list:
S: NAXX, naxx heroic, LoE heroic
AA: LoE, BRM heroic
A:BRM, KFT,
B:Kara, Kara heroic
C: Og dungeon run
D: innmaster tutoring
F: all the new shitty adventures that copy dungeon run but make it worse and cost money
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
Totally agree
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
Well you could save the quest and reroll again the next day? I guess I just have a different feeling about what the quests "should" be - I don't think they should be "easy" because then what's even the point? Oh I got the pirate quest - let me throw every pirate I have into some trash deck, play it once to drop them all, and then move back to decks I actually want to play. That doesn't really feel like the quest is idk "part" of the game as much a box to tick and get the gold before moving back to the "real" game.
I mean there's no "right" answer to the question. I was just curious if I was alone in thinking this about the quests and was curious what other people thought.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Akali, the Rhino Al'Akir the Windlord Arcane Devourer Batterhead Captain Hooktusk Catrina Muerte Cauldron Elemental Da Undatakah Deranged Doctor Fel Lord Betrug Gilnean Royal Guard Grommash Hellscream Gruul Heroic Innkeeper Hex Lord Malacrass Hir'eek, the Bat Ironbark Protector Jepetto Joybuzz Lucentbark Mosh'Ogg Enforcer Octosari Pit Crocolisk Princess Talanji Splintergraft Splitting Festeroot Tess Greymane Tirion Fordring Walking Fountain Tortollan Pilgrim Tomb Warden Whirlwind Tempest
Damn the 8 mana Standard pool is waaay better than I thought. I remember one times losing to double Mogu into Walking Fountain.
I don't have a particular opinion to express, but I just wanted to highlight all the possible outcomes for people that want to comment :)
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I just won a match because I was able to get a Grommash Hellscream on turn 4.
I don't think the combo is too oppressive because it is inconsistent, but when you pull it off it can be devastating. I do think they should change the way it works because losing to that combo just feels so bad, even if it doesn't happen often.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Lost to a shaman who dropped Mogu on turn 3 and mutated into Gruul. I conceded turn 4. Felt SUPER bad for me, but this is not an incredibly common occurrence. I wouldn't mind a nerf to that guy, but I don't know if it's needed yet.
Steal the Opponent's Quest!
I just saw this on Tollden :D Keep doing what ur doing, you make a great content :D These decks are hilarious!
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
I'm becoming more and more inclined to agree. A card like mutate is totally fine when you're evolving an understatted battlecry like giggling inventor or Former Champ, because at least there you played the full price for the minion before evolving it, but as soon as discounted minions enter the equation the amount of stats you can cheat out early becomes too oppressive. Conjurer's wouldn't have had to be nerfed without the Giant Brothers also existing in the same meta. Likewise, Mogu would be fair, a little underwhelming even, without the ability to morph it into an 8-drop well before turn 8.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Blizzard loves giving Shaman ridiculous evolve powers. Remember Dopplegangster and the tricks you could pull off with evolution?
Custom Class - Time Traveler (Updated February 17th - Return to Naxxramas added!)
this basically
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
The daily quests definitely need some changes. After the tweak to the rewards a while back, some of the easiest quests [Win 1 game with X or Y class] give the same amount of gold as [Win two with X class], which is plainly out of whack in terms of difficulty. Hell, even the 60 reward quests don't feel as rewarding considering you have to expend three times as much effort to get 10 gold more compared to these easy 50 gold quests.
Rewards aside, it feels like there's just too many quests related to winning with specific classes: a lot of these are redundant, and the large number of these means that other types of quest don't come up as frequently. Then there's the argument against more specific quests like playing pirates, secrets, elementals, etc. that you'd often have to build a deck just to complete the quest, and many players just want to play ladder and get their gold.
I don't think there's a perfect solution here that would please everyone (other than perhaps infinite rerolls on quests), but personally I'd like to see the number of [win with class] quests trimmed down and some of the lamer type-specific quests like [play 6 pirates] removed as well. I wouldn't mind the introduction of set-specific quests (for the duration of that set) either, EG you could have quests relating to mummies, reborn minions, quests, highlander decks, etc. for Uldum.
Fan Community Spotlight - Frostivus' "The Last Tour"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3tvB8XFG3g
not really relevant, just what this reminded me of.
Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem
Long story short: played against a lot of Quest Shamans and could beat most of them with a variety of pretty average decks, except of course when they just happen to have Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate on turn 3-4 and just completely highroll you with no counter whatsoever.
I'M not saying Quest Shaman needs to be nerfed in any capacity at this point, but if there's one thing that would drastically axe its winrate it's probably that very combo.
It's just an autowin against any deck that relies on beating them on board and it doesn't help that you don't even have to overcommit to be punished by it. It's essentially MCT but instead of playing around it by having only 3 minions you need to play around it by having no minions whatsoever, because if there are 4 minions on the board by turn 3 you lose the game (unless you are blessed by Hir'eek himself)
This is basically just another symptom of the Conjurer's Calling epidemic because Blizzard refuses to acknowledge that high-cost cards that can reduce their cost to be play on early turns are just broken in combination with cards that take mana cost into account.
If they fixed this interaction by having cards "remember" their played cost when they hit the field, we wouldn't have had to nerf CC and MAge wouldn't be dead right now.
Fan Community Spotlight - Frostivus' "The Last Tour"
Ladies and gentlemen, proof that time travel exists.
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
You’ve probably seen how some people really don’t like the brawl quests, and just auto reroll them every time. Imagine rerolling into another quest you couldn’t do.
New quests would need to be something easy to complete that doesn’t revolve around specific expansions. That’s why the tribal ones work, and the odd/even. They aren’t tied exclusively to an expansion. Preferably you’d want whatever new quest to be possible to complete purely through the classic set as well.0
Steal the Opponent's Quest!
That's a great point. Wild also contains more quests you can steal, plus Justicar Trueheart, Baku and Genn, and the Death Knights. Come to think of it, unless you're running a deck that works to improve your hero power yourself, the Spelleater would likely provide good value in many circumstances in wild.
Traversing Azeroth - The Troll Loa
I would love to see more about some of the previous expansions. The adventures (RIP) seem to have plenty of story that could edutain those of us who didn't/don't play WOW. Nax and BRM from when the game still carried the "Heroes of Warcraft" tag would be fun.
Edit: correcting autocorrect
Wich is your Favourite Adventure?
I liked Dungeon Run the most and Dalaran Heist was pretty similiar so i gues it comes second - followed by Monster Hunt (was pretty short but still sweet - at least for me it was pretty short - Monster Hunt was the Solo Adventure i finished at first try with every class :) )
But i also liked the Flavour of League of Explorers and One Night in Karazhan - Boom Labs was pretty cool but not realy replayable so i guess it will earn last place - even tough some of the Puzzles were realy fun :)
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
Well i guess there´s only one kind of Quest (at least one i can think of now) that i always hate getting and it's Quests that are Brawl related - most of the time i only play the Brawl for as long as i won one to get the cardpack but allways reroll the quest with win 3 Tavern Brawls etc.
Some brawls are ok but most of the time i do not like them or at least i favour to play Standard Ladder instead and think the Brawl takes out my Gaming Time on the Ladder - if this makes any sense :) :)
Well there are some Quests you get on the beginning of a New Expansion but i get what you are saying - i think it could be kinda cool to have more expansion related Quests for at least 1 Week after the expansion.
Daily Quests - New Ideas/Trash Removal
That's kind of my point about having them roll the quests with each new expansion - you'd get the current expansion's daily quests more while they were new, and then drop off once the next one launched. So it wouldn't "matter" as much if you joined HS after a particular expansion. And for new people not having quests, etc. that's fair, but I guess in that case you could just reroll or wait - sort of like how people who don't have a lot of friends might have to reroll the "play a friend"/"watch a friend win" quests or how you'd probably wait on the "win 3 tavern brawls" quest if it was a week where you hated the brawl (looking at you, Brawlesium...)