While I'm certainly not a fan of warriors ability to just have Dr Boom as this "catch-all" win condition in the form of a hero power and strong passive...
The issue with priest/extra arms doesn't inherently come from it's ability to "win" but how it wins.
Extra arms is arguably more popular in the aggro priest variant, and the idea with this is that all the cards together, Cleric, Lightwarden, ExtraArms, Amet, DS, IF, combine into this super strong, super resilient aggro deck.
The reason we are most likely not seeing nerf to the murloc paladin even though it's aggro is because it's reliant on RNG (drawing primsatic, and using it), and by the time murloc paladin swarms out, you generally have a way to stall, clear the board or have an answer.
In contrast to that, there are very few classes that can deal with a turn 1 cleric, much less a turn 2 cleric buffed to 3/5 with extra arms. That's just a snowballing nightmare.
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Well, if I get destroyed everytime then the concept of the deck is garbage and I delete it; but I normally start refining it after a few games, and I keep playing the deck for the full season (sometimes even 2 seasons), if it stays above 50% WR. But it depends on my mood, how boring or fun the deck is, and what other decks I want to play.
Thank you for your hint to craft Sonya later and try the deck first without Sonya. This is the only missing card (Zephrys is still missing but I will craft him the next days after the coming nerfs have been published).
I want to craft dinotamer brann, but I am also missing subject 9 and siamat. most lists I see run those two, do you think the deck will be viable without them? or should I try and save up for a different deck?
If you are a hunter player Subject 9 is a great card and sees play in almost every hunter deck. Siamat is another great card and imo a safe craft for this set. But it will always depend on your dust. If you have the dust, go fot it. The deck is awesome and super fun. But it's super expensive.
I want to craft dinotamer brann, but I am also missing subject 9 and siamat. most lists I see run those two, do you think the deck will be viable without them? or should I try and save up for a different deck?
Do Highlander hunter players think this deck will still be dominant, without Zul'jin, next year?
I'm asking this because I don't know if it is safe to craft Brann and Subject 9. I have all the other key cards for this deck but I am a f2p scrub.
Next year we will have 2 new sets in standard wich means 270 new cards! So, maybe, just maybe, Highlander decks will have new fuel to mourne about Zul'jin rotating out. But imo Highlander decks will still be a thing
In the case of both cards, surely it's Twinspell that's the main issue?
Extra Arms for 2 without Twinspell? Fine. Conjurer's Calling for 3 without Twinspell? Fine. They'd both still be powerful, but no longer miserable to play against.
Likelihood of the devs deleting a broken game mechanic rather than just changing the mana cost? I'd guess almost zero.
Check out a video from RDU, he hit legend rank 1 with that deck a couple days ago and explains it in depth.
I play it myself atm (rank 1, about to hit legend) and for me the key was greedy secret mulligan and aggressive playstile.
Brann on turn 7 is stupid strong.
Zephrys is allways insane. I use him mostly for swing turns and for lethals of course.
And finally, secrets are hard to play correctly. If done well, it‘s very rewarding but it can backfire. Consider what your opponent thinks and play some mindgames with him. The matchup is also important.
This. I played about 60 games with it to Legend, it's reallly strong as long as you play secrets correctly
Sweet thanks for some tips everyone. I'll fursure be giving the Molten Giants a shot, as well as some mech builds. After that I'll turn back to google to see if I can find any of the cheese strategies.
Really, care to show your replay history? I'm sure your the type of person who keeps statistics with deck tracker, since you so very "kindly" gave stars/minute statistics below in a different post.
The reason I question the validity of your claim is that in order to take a typical corporate lunch break (~ 1 hour) and play 18 matches, your matches would have to last on average 3.33 minutes per match. That is assuming the game immediately loaded into each game.
The typical hearthstone match takes 20 seconds to search for a new opponent and I'll generously say 40 seconds for both players to load in and complete the mulligan. So we'll say a 1 minute "time tax" per match. Sound fair?
So according to your statistic, that would be 18 minutes of buffer time for purely just LOADING and mulligan phase. That leaves us 42 minutes to play 18 games. So in actuality your matches would have to be 2.33 minutes long each to make 18 matches.
Considering that even the old school odd paladin and even hunter decks generally struggled to get their matches UNDER 5 minutes consistently, I have a hard time believing that you've revolutionized the meta with your specific play of aggro/priest by running matches with under 2.33 minutes.
Next time you want to bullshit someone and "pretend" like you're attempting to be unbiased, but in actuality you are biased (and lying through your teeth with falsified claims of statistics to boot) at least come up with some realistic "statistics" that are at least plausible.
I'm a person that tries to deal with managable variables, so to me, including a variable (the quest in this instance) that improves your winrate better in some matchups, seems like an acceptable compromise to me. As I have said THREE times now. If the matchup looks to be aggro, you mulligan the quest away, if the matchup looks to be control, you hold onto it.
The ability for aggro priest to win with quest in hand is still fairly high.
Statistics for drawing either Lightwarden or Cleric in your opening hand BEFORE mulligan:
Going first: 23.9%. Going 2nd: 32%
(for reference, the statistical difference if you didn't run the quest would be 39% going 2nd, and 32% going first).
If your complaint is that Mulligan it away means you have a harder time completing it, I don't understand what you're getting at: because quest priest will generally win before they draw even 10 cards from the deck.
But let's assume you did mulligan 2 cards away going first, and 3 cards going 2nd (while keeping quest)
Your chances of getting a lightwarden/cleric in your mulligan while going first would be : 24.6%
Your chances of getting a lightwarden/cleric in your mulligan while going 2nd would be: 32.8%
As for this trite debate. I'm done. You can believe what you want. But there's a reason control warrior has a higher winrate than aggro priest. Because it is far more adaptable to decks. It can handle aggro decks, combo decks, and control decks relatively fine. It doesn't mean it will win them all, but the reason it does well is it has a reasonable ability to combat them all. Aggro priest, when it gets the RNG, it can knock down any deck. But the problem is that, like you said: it wants to close the match out before turn 6 if possible. When it goes past that turn, it's winrate declines. Hard.
Turn 1 Northshire Cleric into turn 2 Extra Arms is a really good start against any deck. Having a 3/5 on board on turn 2 is hard to kill for almost every deck in the meta. But I have to say that I liked Extra Arms as a viable card in a combo priest and I'd rather not nerf it.
Tech options do exist though. Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker can put a damper on any combo priests day.
Most decks just aren't built to deal with combo priest well since its a recent deck.
A better nerf to conjurer's calling would be to simply change the way the card works, make it so that if you play a mountain giant for 4 mana, then it is seen as a 4 mana card. this would make the card way more balanced. but the issue is that if team 5 were to do that everyone would complain about how they nerfed the deck but there is no dust refund.
Highlander Secrer Quest Rogue
You're welcome.
Sonya shadowdancer is definitely a strong card in this deck, even moreso because largely unexpected, and can lead to ludicrous turns.
But you can playtest the deck, and decide if you like it, even without her, as long as you have the rest of the cards.
ie. I've been playing it with Saronite Chain Gang instead of Zilliax for a while.
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Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
While I'm certainly not a fan of warriors ability to just have Dr Boom as this "catch-all" win condition in the form of a hero power and strong passive...
The issue with priest/extra arms doesn't inherently come from it's ability to "win" but how it wins.
Extra arms is arguably more popular in the aggro priest variant, and the idea with this is that all the cards together, Cleric, Lightwarden, ExtraArms, Amet, DS, IF, combine into this super strong, super resilient aggro deck.
The reason we are most likely not seeing nerf to the murloc paladin even though it's aggro is because it's reliant on RNG (drawing primsatic, and using it), and by the time murloc paladin swarms out, you generally have a way to stall, clear the board or have an answer.
In contrast to that, there are very few classes that can deal with a turn 1 cleric, much less a turn 2 cleric buffed to 3/5 with extra arms. That's just a snowballing nightmare.
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Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
Innerfire combo is a huge problem, one or the other need to be HOF....mind blast was fine....extra arms??? who cares...
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Why nobody plays shieldbreaker?
Good tech for 1-5 ranks, not prevalent enough for 5-20 in my experience
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
Agreed. I don’t see Extra Arms as a problem.
How long do you play your own decks for?
Well, if I get destroyed everytime then the concept of the deck is garbage and I delete it; but I normally start refining it after a few games, and I keep playing the deck for the full season (sometimes even 2 seasons), if it stays above 50% WR. But it depends on my mood, how boring or fun the deck is, and what other decks I want to play.
Highlander Secrer Quest Rogue
Thank you for your hint to craft Sonya later and try the deck first without Sonya. This is the only missing card (Zephrys is still missing but I will craft him the next days after the coming nerfs have been published).
Highlander Hunter Advice
If you are a hunter player Subject 9 is a great card and sees play in almost every hunter deck. Siamat is another great card and imo a safe craft for this set. But it will always depend on your dust. If you have the dust, go fot it. The deck is awesome and super fun. But it's super expensive.
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
I think it went like this:
-extra arms was so cool at 2, but is really strong
- yes
[...]
Highlander Hunter Advice
I want to craft dinotamer brann, but I am also missing subject 9 and siamat. most lists I see run those two, do you think the deck will be viable without them? or should I try and save up for a different deck?
Highlander Hunter Advice
Next year we will have 2 new sets in standard wich means 270 new cards! So, maybe, just maybe, Highlander decks will have new fuel to mourne about Zul'jin rotating out. But imo Highlander decks will still be a thing
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
Please don’t touch extra arms and 4 mana conjouring does not solve the problem imo.
Btw, is there an option to add a „agree or disagree“ poll to the nerfs for each cards, when the changes happen?
Highlander Hunter Advice
Do Highlander hunter players think this deck will still be dominant, without Zul'jin, next year?
I'm asking this because I don't know if it is safe to craft Brann and Subject 9. I have all the other key cards for this deck but I am a f2p scrub.
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
In the case of both cards, surely it's Twinspell that's the main issue?
Extra Arms for 2 without Twinspell? Fine. Conjurer's Calling for 3 without Twinspell? Fine. They'd both still be powerful, but no longer miserable to play against.
Likelihood of the devs deleting a broken game mechanic rather than just changing the mana cost? I'd guess almost zero.
Highlander Hunter Advice
This. I played about 60 games with it to Legend, it's reallly strong as long as you play secrets correctly
Why nobody plays shieldbreaker?
yeah I see so many people saying it's a bad card, it's not just a bit more specific, might have been better as a 2/2 but it's fine as it is.
Unlock Arthas with Uldum standard decks
Sweet thanks for some tips everyone. I'll fursure be giving the Molten Giants a shot, as well as some mech builds. After that I'll turn back to google to see if I can find any of the cheese strategies.
Standard Meta Report #1 - August 11, 2019 - August 18, 2019
Really, care to show your replay history? I'm sure your the type of person who keeps statistics with deck tracker, since you so very "kindly" gave stars/minute statistics below in a different post.
The reason I question the validity of your claim is that in order to take a typical corporate lunch break (~ 1 hour) and play 18 matches, your matches would have to last on average 3.33 minutes per match. That is assuming the game immediately loaded into each game.
The typical hearthstone match takes 20 seconds to search for a new opponent and I'll generously say 40 seconds for both players to load in and complete the mulligan. So we'll say a 1 minute "time tax" per match. Sound fair?
So according to your statistic, that would be 18 minutes of buffer time for purely just LOADING and mulligan phase. That leaves us 42 minutes to play 18 games. So in actuality your matches would have to be 2.33 minutes long each to make 18 matches.
Considering that even the old school odd paladin and even hunter decks generally struggled to get their matches UNDER 5 minutes consistently, I have a hard time believing that you've revolutionized the meta with your specific play of aggro/priest by running matches with under 2.33 minutes.
Next time you want to bullshit someone and "pretend" like you're attempting to be unbiased, but in actuality you are biased (and lying through your teeth with falsified claims of statistics to boot) at least come up with some realistic "statistics" that are at least plausible.
I'm a person that tries to deal with managable variables, so to me, including a variable (the quest in this instance) that improves your winrate better in some matchups, seems like an acceptable compromise to me. As I have said THREE times now. If the matchup looks to be aggro, you mulligan the quest away, if the matchup looks to be control, you hold onto it.
The ability for aggro priest to win with quest in hand is still fairly high.
Statistics for drawing either Lightwarden or Cleric in your opening hand BEFORE mulligan:
Going first: 23.9%. Going 2nd: 32%
(for reference, the statistical difference if you didn't run the quest would be 39% going 2nd, and 32% going first).
If your complaint is that Mulligan it away means you have a harder time completing it, I don't understand what you're getting at: because quest priest will generally win before they draw even 10 cards from the deck.
But let's assume you did mulligan 2 cards away going first, and 3 cards going 2nd (while keeping quest)
Your chances of getting a lightwarden/cleric in your mulligan while going first would be : 24.6%
Your chances of getting a lightwarden/cleric in your mulligan while going 2nd would be: 32.8%
As for this trite debate. I'm done. You can believe what you want. But there's a reason control warrior has a higher winrate than aggro priest. Because it is far more adaptable to decks. It can handle aggro decks, combo decks, and control decks relatively fine. It doesn't mean it will win them all, but the reason it does well is it has a reasonable ability to combat them all. Aggro priest, when it gets the RNG, it can knock down any deck. But the problem is that, like you said: it wants to close the match out before turn 6 if possible. When it goes past that turn, it's winrate declines. Hard.
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
Tech options do exist though. Ironbeak Owl and Spellbreaker can put a damper on any combo priests day.
Most decks just aren't built to deal with combo priest well since its a recent deck.
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Wild · Yogg Mage · by Watermelon86 · 7 years, 1 month ago
Conjurer's Calling & Extra Arms Being Nerfed? Mike Donais Chatlogs
A better nerf to conjurer's calling would be to simply change the way the card works, make it so that if you play a mountain giant for 4 mana, then it is seen as a 4 mana card. this would make the card way more balanced. but the issue is that if team 5 were to do that everyone would complain about how they nerfed the deck but there is no dust refund.
Highlander Hunter Advice
Thanks a lot Bersak, will check his vid :)