People are going to hate this. I kind of like it though. It's not as "scary" as glide. It's a strong MTG black aggro style card.
I think it's seeing some play. 4 mana 4/3 is slow but it is an automatic 2 for 1 if not better, and it can hit key cards for the matchup or just power cards in general.
It has to be outcast though, and outcast becomes a bigger deal more and more the higher the cost of the card. you aren't that happy dropping this without the outcast.
I think tempo warrior will still exist in some form because it has a sick core of cards and I think this goes in with it. It's just a better greenskin. Greenskin is better when your opponent doesn't have a board at all but that's kind of a win on it's own. 4/4 with rush has very little chance of sticking but the fact that it gets more value if it's not is strong.
Warrior is playing it. Not sure about Rogue, they'd have to get a really good weapon for this to be worth playing.
My first impression is, I kind of hate it. Hand disruption has never been a big thing in hearthstone and I liked that about it.
But also it's not as insane as you might think. I mean if you're against control, they're jamming their cheap cards against your cheap cards. you spend 4 mana to play this, they send all their expensive cards back into their deck and draw 4 new ones, possibly a better hand and they get the first turn full of mana crystals to spend on them. In fact, it promotes them to just jam all their stuff and put you in a situation where if you refill, you refill for them to. only residentsleeper decks like priest have a lot of cards in hand that they don't want to draw back
think about modern demon hunter games. how often are you playing a game against demon hunter where you have a lot of cards in your hand and want to keep it that way, and you're not getting slaughtered?
it's super hard to evaluate this. but at the end of the day it's a Jeeves like refill for low curve aggro demon hunter so it's going to see play I think.
with what we know right now, I'm not sure this is good. I really want it to be because it's super cool but i'm skeptical.
it's a 5 mana 4/5 that doesn't impact the board. It has to die to summon the totems. it's vulnerable to single target removal and tempo tools like bounces, silences, transforms, freezes. it overloads you for two mana so it doesn't curve into bloodlust (in the event that they kill it and can't kill the totems),
you can play one of the zero mana totem buffs and splitting axe but like, idk thats a three card combo and two turn set up and all it does is make a bunch of 2/2s lol.
I guess it can be decent if totem shaman had the early game to be even with most decks, but right now it has to explode on the board around these turns, and this is actually just kind of slow. if totem shaman had the early game to be at parity, then maybe you could do more with the totems, we'll see.
I'm not sure about this card. It's obviously very strong in certain situations, and that is what makes it hard to evaluate.
I think you just stick it in highlander hunter honestly. There are games where you go one drop two drop but your opponent does as well and you know trading is going to put you behind, so you play this and it changes your trades for the better. It has synergy with your weapons and rush minions.
i don't think tempo dh or control dh plays this. maybe if there is a midrange demon hunter.
Not sure this is as good in zoo as most are thinking. Zoo wants to explode on the board. 4 mana for a 3/6 isn't that. It only lets you explode onto the board if it sticks (wishful thinking) or you play it along side a couple one drops in the mid-late game but how do you have all those 1 drops in your hand still that late as zoo. The only way I could see is if disco lock becomes a thing and you're proccing hand of guldans left and right, with the previously build spider card I guess this is possible but disco lock needs more support than that.
It's a solid card though. you might play it just for the chance it sticks. 3/6 is very good stat line for a four drop. MIght be playable but it just doesn't seem insane to me yet.
Priest probably isn't playing this. it just doesn't have the cards that make sense with it like lock does. tempo priest can already jam stupid ammounts of stats on the board in better ways. and its still a bad archtype because no card draw.
People are thinking about using this to summon really high cost minions but I don't think thats what its made/going to be good for. Seems like a strong tempo on curve type of play. If face rogue that uses weapons is a thing, this is a strong card.
Just curving after a Hooked Scimitar is strong. 4/4 + a random 4 drop is good tempo, and four drops have some good highrolls. Even if it's just a deadly poison on your hero power dagger, 4/4 + a random 3 drop is reasonable.
For warrior it kind of depends what new weapon they get. Not many decent attack weapons for warrior right now, most of them are played for their effects. I suppose its not bad if you curve after a war axe (ideally after you played Imprisoned Gan'arg on 1) but that definitely isn't a reason to play the card.
It would definitely need some early weapon support for both classes but we're obviously still super early in the set.
This has potential. Discard aggro in wild is pretty strong. Not sure if this gets played there. Maybe this is better than the 3/3 but i'm not sure. If we get some good aggressive disco cards in standard i'd love to see that be a deck.
it's going to be in standard with the rushing 5/5 and hand of guldan, which, especially hand of guldan, is the card that makes disco lock viable.
This card is pretty good. Some of the tempo warrior deck shave ran deathwing and they all run grom now, and this kind of does similar things as both and its arguably better than deathwing for a midrange/temp deck
It pushes more damage than grom without an activator so it's a lot better to jam on 8 if you don't have the activator, but grom has the combo potential.
It's kind of better than deathwing in some ways. Deathwing has a lot more board control potential but it also wrecks your own board. This puts more stats and bodies on an empty board than deathwing AND goes face for six, and it does have some board clearing potential but RNG based and not as strong as deathwing.
This seems solid it just needs a certain kind of deck to be in. there is a lot of support cards for a big beast hunter, just need some stuff to put it all together. A lot of the beasts you might play can kind of double dip on the +1/+1 or the copy in some way.
If you're playing a midrangey beast hunter deck. if you play it early it's a keleseth for your beasts, if you play it later its a faceless manipulator for 3.
right now though, because of Scavenger's Ingenuity, we're playing a minimum amount of beasts so we can tutor them. there is going to be need to be some more incentive to not do that.
playing this on 10 with brann for two king crush's seems a lot less of a meme than it should. that can honestly be a thing.
As far as druid, this is actually a little bit interesting. it would need a ton of support but mana sabre and winged guardians are good beasts.
Burn is the main thing I play and it's definitely not in need of a nerf. The last nerf did enough, imo.
How did they not hit your face but still killed you? what were you doing the whole time? It takes so much mana to do 20 damage without hitting face..
Maybe you're just playing a deck weak to burn or something but they should never be able to do 20 without hitting face before you kill them. If they weren't hitting your face that means you were playing early interaction, and early interaction is how you beat burn. Getting early chip is basically burns win condition, lol.
btw i am convinced there is some bug in the mismatch: after several games either i fight against Legend players with ranking similar to me or Diamond 9/10 or even Platinum 1/2 ... this doesn't make any sense ... now low Diamonds...
that sounds like it's working exactly as it's supposed to. it goes by mmr so if you play someone at legend it should be someone with a close rank. your MMR just isn't that high so you're getting the diamond and plat people. if you climb the legend ladder more you will no longer see people outside legend around 1500 and less, on NA at least.
Probably Odd warrior. I always really hated that deck. After it became a meta deck in standard I almost always laddered with decks with a very strong matchup against it like shudderwock shaman and deathrattle hunter (two of my favorite decks ever). Even though I farmed them it was still incredibly boring and tedious. The deck was super polarized too, it farmed aggro and midrange decks and completely folded to any deck with a win condition or a board that couldn't be cleared with one card.
I just hate control decks with no win condition other than you have no resources / fatigue. Odd warrior felt the worst of all because it barely played for the board and was just full of removal and carried by hero power. Mind blast priest in year of the raven or bomb warrior, or even control warrior with the taunt package from Uldum, are good examples of what a control deck should be like. A deck that has to play on the board and make trades, runs early game cards, and has a win con for the late game.
I don't think i hate any of the decks in the current standard meta.
Yeah the one lone buff is a little weird. Libram of justice is already one of paladins very few good cards. Making it better isn't going to fix how bad paladin is everywhere else.
Hey guys, i've really enjoyed the year of the dragon overall and want to know what you think.
What have been your favorite decks to climb or just play from each expansion meta?
What rotating cards from YotR are you going to miss most?
Favorite YotD cards not necessarily for power?
All of the year of the dragon cards will still be around in standard for the next year, but between raven cards rotating/nerfs/power level of future expansions a lot of them won't see the kind of play they have. So year of the dragon has had it's own unique meta.
My personal experience:
Witchwood/Year of the Raven was where I began hearthstone, so this year felt unique to me because it was the first one where every card being played was one I knew from it's release.
In Rise of Shadows my favorite deck for the ladder was bomb warrior. Both booms were nutty, and having a "control" deck that also could play as a sloppy midrange beat em up was really fun. I'm definitely in the minority but I even miss the warrior mirrors. Playing bomb vs control and bomb mirror was so ridiculous and its not something you really saw after the end of the RoS meta. My favorite card from that expansion was Muckmorpher. I really liked those two minutes where big shaman was a thing.
In Saviors of Uldum, and for the entire year of the dragon, my favorite deck was quest shaman. Now bludgeoned to death by nerfs (unjustly so imo), it used to be a super fun deck to play. Ridiculous value engine, interesting tempo lines, lots of rng effects like discovers and mutates to try to hedge, deck was nutty. Unfortunately the Wild cards event put an early end on my enjoyment of the deck because evolve made the deck broken and the center of the meta. About a week into the event I took the longest break i've ever taken from HS until it was over because the game was unplayable to me.
I also loved quest druid, and my favorite card from Uldum is Oasis Surger. I love elementals, the art, and the nutty power level. This deck is still very good nowadays and a go to climbing deck.
Descent of Dragons was a pretty huge spike in power, Pushing and rebuilding a lot of the other decks from the meta while adding Galakrond and another reason to play highlander. I loved Galakrond Shaman for the brief amount of time it was almost balanced between the two waves of nerfs but it was short lived because now the deck is fairly weak. I was really bummed how they handled Shaman this expansion, but it's still been quite enjoyable and a pretty decent meta with a lot of variety and not as much polarization. I've enjoyed highlander hunter, aggro hunter, highlander rogue, and quest druid. DoD added my favorite card from the expansion to quest druid, Ysera, Unleashed. Card is nuts. Mad flavor and closes out games in style.
Cards i'm going to miss from year of the raven
Shudderwock (favorite card of all time, opened it in my first WW pack),
I mean a lot of combo decks are supported by "accident". Stuff like Holy Wrath pally, Shudderwock Shaman, Topsy priest aren't things they ever saw coming, at least they didn't see them being real decks coming. Sometimes they print cards that have clear combo implications but they don't support it as hard as control/aggro. It's rare you see a card like Mechathun, and they're usually bad (Hakkar).
Did they really not see Holy Wrath Pally coming? How is that possible?
That's one of the ones where I meant they didn't see it being a real (meta) deck. They likely knew about the combo but probably didn't think it would be a real thing. The general consensus in the community was it was a meme deck at best, I remember even pro players laughing about it when Shirvallah was revealed. I remember that decks emergence well, it was over a month into the new expansion before it was on peoples radar.
People are going to hate this. I kind of like it though. It's not as "scary" as glide. It's a strong MTG black aggro style card.
I think it's seeing some play. 4 mana 4/3 is slow but it is an automatic 2 for 1 if not better, and it can hit key cards for the matchup or just power cards in general.
It has to be outcast though, and outcast becomes a bigger deal more and more the higher the cost of the card. you aren't that happy dropping this without the outcast.
I think tempo warrior will still exist in some form because it has a sick core of cards and I think this goes in with it. It's just a better greenskin. Greenskin is better when your opponent doesn't have a board at all but that's kind of a win on it's own. 4/4 with rush has very little chance of sticking but the fact that it gets more value if it's not is strong.
Warrior is playing it. Not sure about Rogue, they'd have to get a really good weapon for this to be worth playing.
good card.
huhhhh wow. that's a card.
My first impression is, I kind of hate it. Hand disruption has never been a big thing in hearthstone and I liked that about it.
But also it's not as insane as you might think. I mean if you're against control, they're jamming their cheap cards against your cheap cards. you spend 4 mana to play this, they send all their expensive cards back into their deck and draw 4 new ones, possibly a better hand and they get the first turn full of mana crystals to spend on them. In fact, it promotes them to just jam all their stuff and put you in a situation where if you refill, you refill for them to. only residentsleeper decks like priest have a lot of cards in hand that they don't want to draw back
think about modern demon hunter games. how often are you playing a game against demon hunter where you have a lot of cards in your hand and want to keep it that way, and you're not getting slaughtered?
it's super hard to evaluate this. but at the end of the day it's a Jeeves like refill for low curve aggro demon hunter so it's going to see play I think.
with what we know right now, I'm not sure this is good. I really want it to be because it's super cool but i'm skeptical.
it's a 5 mana 4/5 that doesn't impact the board. It has to die to summon the totems. it's vulnerable to single target removal and tempo tools like bounces, silences, transforms, freezes. it overloads you for two mana so it doesn't curve into bloodlust (in the event that they kill it and can't kill the totems),
you can play one of the zero mana totem buffs and splitting axe but like, idk thats a three card combo and two turn set up and all it does is make a bunch of 2/2s lol.
I guess it can be decent if totem shaman had the early game to be even with most decks, but right now it has to explode on the board around these turns, and this is actually just kind of slow. if totem shaman had the early game to be at parity, then maybe you could do more with the totems, we'll see.
seems bad, warrior isn't equipting this junk when it has great 3-4 drop weapons. It doesn't really have much big spells to use it, as of yet.
Pally I can see some potential.
I'm not sure about this card. It's obviously very strong in certain situations, and that is what makes it hard to evaluate.
I think you just stick it in highlander hunter honestly. There are games where you go one drop two drop but your opponent does as well and you know trading is going to put you behind, so you play this and it changes your trades for the better. It has synergy with your weapons and rush minions.
i don't think tempo dh or control dh plays this. maybe if there is a midrange demon hunter.
Not sure this is as good in zoo as most are thinking. Zoo wants to explode on the board. 4 mana for a 3/6 isn't that. It only lets you explode onto the board if it sticks (wishful thinking) or you play it along side a couple one drops in the mid-late game but how do you have all those 1 drops in your hand still that late as zoo. The only way I could see is if disco lock becomes a thing and you're proccing hand of guldans left and right, with the previously build spider card I guess this is possible but disco lock needs more support than that.
It's a solid card though. you might play it just for the chance it sticks. 3/6 is very good stat line for a four drop. MIght be playable but it just doesn't seem insane to me yet.
Priest probably isn't playing this. it just doesn't have the cards that make sense with it like lock does. tempo priest can already jam stupid ammounts of stats on the board in better ways. and its still a bad archtype because no card draw.
People are thinking about using this to summon really high cost minions but I don't think thats what its made/going to be good for. Seems like a strong tempo on curve type of play. If face rogue that uses weapons is a thing, this is a strong card.
Just curving after a Hooked Scimitar is strong. 4/4 + a random 4 drop is good tempo, and four drops have some good highrolls. Even if it's just a deadly poison on your hero power dagger, 4/4 + a random 3 drop is reasonable.
For warrior it kind of depends what new weapon they get. Not many decent attack weapons for warrior right now, most of them are played for their effects. I suppose its not bad if you curve after a war axe (ideally after you played Imprisoned Gan'arg on 1) but that definitely isn't a reason to play the card.
It would definitely need some early weapon support for both classes but we're obviously still super early in the set.
This has potential. Discard aggro in wild is pretty strong. Not sure if this gets played there. Maybe this is better than the 3/3 but i'm not sure. If we get some good aggressive disco cards in standard i'd love to see that be a deck.
it's going to be in standard with the rushing 5/5 and hand of guldan, which, especially hand of guldan, is the card that makes disco lock viable.
this dude is pretty good.
if aggro shaman is a thing it's a bootleg electra or just a river croc with an upside on 2.
shaman has a lot of good spells you might be interested in copying with this.
This card is pretty good. Some of the tempo warrior deck shave ran deathwing and they all run grom now, and this kind of does similar things as both and its arguably better than deathwing for a midrange/temp deck
It pushes more damage than grom without an activator so it's a lot better to jam on 8 if you don't have the activator, but grom has the combo potential.
It's kind of better than deathwing in some ways. Deathwing has a lot more board control potential but it also wrecks your own board. This puts more stats and bodies on an empty board than deathwing AND goes face for six, and it does have some board clearing potential but RNG based and not as strong as deathwing.
I think this finds a home.
This seems solid it just needs a certain kind of deck to be in. there is a lot of support cards for a big beast hunter, just need some stuff to put it all together. A lot of the beasts you might play can kind of double dip on the +1/+1 or the copy in some way.
If you're playing a midrangey beast hunter deck. if you play it early it's a keleseth for your beasts, if you play it later its a faceless manipulator for 3.
right now though, because of Scavenger's Ingenuity, we're playing a minimum amount of beasts so we can tutor them. there is going to be need to be some more incentive to not do that.
playing this on 10 with brann for two king crush's seems a lot less of a meme than it should. that can honestly be a thing.
As far as druid, this is actually a little bit interesting. it would need a ton of support but mana sabre and winged guardians are good beasts.
Burn is the main thing I play and it's definitely not in need of a nerf. The last nerf did enough, imo.
How did they not hit your face but still killed you? what were you doing the whole time? It takes so much mana to do 20 damage without hitting face..
Maybe you're just playing a deck weak to burn or something but they should never be able to do 20 without hitting face before you kill them. If they weren't hitting your face that means you were playing early interaction, and early interaction is how you beat burn. Getting early chip is basically burns win condition, lol.
that sounds like it's working exactly as it's supposed to. it goes by mmr so if you play someone at legend it should be someone with a close rank. your MMR just isn't that high so you're getting the diamond and plat people. if you climb the legend ladder more you will no longer see people outside legend around 1500 and less, on NA at least.
Probably Odd warrior. I always really hated that deck. After it became a meta deck in standard I almost always laddered with decks with a very strong matchup against it like shudderwock shaman and deathrattle hunter (two of my favorite decks ever). Even though I farmed them it was still incredibly boring and tedious. The deck was super polarized too, it farmed aggro and midrange decks and completely folded to any deck with a win condition or a board that couldn't be cleared with one card.
I just hate control decks with no win condition other than you have no resources / fatigue. Odd warrior felt the worst of all because it barely played for the board and was just full of removal and carried by hero power. Mind blast priest in year of the raven or bomb warrior, or even control warrior with the taunt package from Uldum, are good examples of what a control deck should be like. A deck that has to play on the board and make trades, runs early game cards, and has a win con for the late game.
I don't think i hate any of the decks in the current standard meta.
Yeah the one lone buff is a little weird. Libram of justice is already one of paladins very few good cards. Making it better isn't going to fix how bad paladin is everywhere else.
Battletag: heavyrocks#1293
Region: NA
Trade only?: Yes, you first.
Agreed Monk would have been vastly cooler, more well designed and balanced.
Monks are cool as hell and do martial arts, demon hunters are lame and emo. pandaria is beautiful and mystical. the outlands are a dump
Hey guys, i've really enjoyed the year of the dragon overall and want to know what you think.
All of the year of the dragon cards will still be around in standard for the next year, but between raven cards rotating/nerfs/power level of future expansions a lot of them won't see the kind of play they have. So year of the dragon has had it's own unique meta.
My personal experience:
Witchwood/Year of the Raven was where I began hearthstone, so this year felt unique to me because it was the first one where every card being played was one I knew from it's release.
In Rise of Shadows my favorite deck for the ladder was bomb warrior. Both booms were nutty, and having a "control" deck that also could play as a sloppy midrange beat em up was really fun. I'm definitely in the minority but I even miss the warrior mirrors. Playing bomb vs control and bomb mirror was so ridiculous and its not something you really saw after the end of the RoS meta. My favorite card from that expansion was Muckmorpher. I really liked those two minutes where big shaman was a thing.
In Saviors of Uldum, and for the entire year of the dragon, my favorite deck was quest shaman. Now bludgeoned to death by nerfs (unjustly so imo), it used to be a super fun deck to play. Ridiculous value engine, interesting tempo lines, lots of rng effects like discovers and mutates to try to hedge, deck was nutty. Unfortunately the Wild cards event put an early end on my enjoyment of the deck because evolve made the deck broken and the center of the meta. About a week into the event I took the longest break i've ever taken from HS until it was over because the game was unplayable to me.
I also loved quest druid, and my favorite card from Uldum is Oasis Surger. I love elementals, the art, and the nutty power level. This deck is still very good nowadays and a go to climbing deck.
Descent of Dragons was a pretty huge spike in power, Pushing and rebuilding a lot of the other decks from the meta while adding Galakrond and another reason to play highlander. I loved Galakrond Shaman for the brief amount of time it was almost balanced between the two waves of nerfs but it was short lived because now the deck is fairly weak. I was really bummed how they handled Shaman this expansion, but it's still been quite enjoyable and a pretty decent meta with a lot of variety and not as much polarization. I've enjoyed highlander hunter, aggro hunter, highlander rogue, and quest druid. DoD added my favorite card from the expansion to quest druid, Ysera, Unleashed. Card is nuts. Mad flavor and closes out games in style.
Cards i'm going to miss from year of the raven
Shudderwock (favorite card of all time, opened it in my first WW pack),
Hagatha the Witch
Flobbidinous Floop
Electra Stormsurge
Wardruid Loti
I won't type too much more in case the thread flops but I really want to know other peoples experiences and feelings with the expansions.
That's one of the ones where I meant they didn't see it being a real (meta) deck. They likely knew about the combo but probably didn't think it would be a real thing. The general consensus in the community was it was a meme deck at best, I remember even pro players laughing about it when Shirvallah was revealed. I remember that decks emergence well, it was over a month into the new expansion before it was on peoples radar.