As someone who's been only playing Magic a few months, this is pretty cool to do. Lets you try out some new cards but also play with cards much older. Crazy how strong some of these old cards are. One mana draw 3, haha.
Yeah. This and Corrupt Elementalist really make me question Blizz saying the invoke cards are low tempo to justify the powerhouse invoke synergy cards.
Well they're super low tempo in general, just not with shaman. They said they wanted shamans invoke/dragon to be tempo oriented. Their dragon's battlecry isn't quite as much value as other classes (though 2 8/8 rushes is still pretty nutty
Holy shit this card is insane. This is a nutty tempo rogue / aggro/quest shaman card. This is 5/5 meta fining. Rogue does a great job of sticking early cheap dudes and this is a huge payoff. the lackey synergy with this is nuts. For 8 mana and a single faceless lackey you can have 3 5/4 rushers and the better of the two 2 drops.
ALSO SHUDDERWOCK SHAMAN IS BACK IN THIS BITCH. MY JAWS THAT BITE
Seems kind of meh but it does have some good spots in the right meta, like what could you be hoping to copy with this.
If your opponent goes wide with minions and you play this, you are giving them the attackers initiative so they have the advantage
If they use a targeted/discover big spells like Pyroblast or Power of creation, you are likely to get shafted where as they got full value.
Copying a board clear probably isn't even good because it might kill this and your opponent probably didn't reload much after clearing the board in the same turn.
What the card is GOOD for however, is huge value minions/spells/hero cards. Hagatha, Boom, Mass Resurrection, etc. This could be good in a really slow meta. That depends if it can copy the rush aura or the battlecry from the new dragon hero.
I agree that is bad design, but "it's either unplayable and useless or completely busted", isn't that the definition of a tech card?
Yeah, this is true but I don't think it is as polarizing as this. Most tech cards aren't aimed at only one class with such a strong upside against them, but it does happen.
Dumb card. it's either unplayable and useless or completely busted tech card. Bad design.
It isn't going to kill warrior, the only way you would play this is if it was like RoS and warrior was one of the only tier 1 decks, and even then...
what kind of deck uses this? this isn't going to stop warrior from stabilizing against aggro/midrange. its a 5 mana 5/5. Most classes could do more damage with a good card in their deck instead. If the warrior is stacking that much armor they've usually already won, unless you're a deck that can go long enough for you to win anyway like quest shaman.
that'S the point though. It's supposed to jump in when there's a class that just abuses armor stacking. If control warrior is all you run into and they just armor up in your face you tech this in and catch them off guard.
I've had many games where I got a warrior (or Druid) down to single digits and they just went back up to 25, in which case this would have been an instant win.
It's the same as Eater of Secrets. You don't play it because it's good on average, you play it if you want a specific deck to die.
That's so niche though. You're going to play a 5 mana 5/5 that's mediocre in every other (standard) class matchup just so you can win games where you almost killed a warrior and they stabilized? you could have just had a good card in your deck that could have added enough pressure to kill them in the first place. In fact, you could be taking a good card out of your deck to put this. Eater of Secrets affects the tempo of the game but this card has zero effect on tempo. You probably won't even kill the warrior if you play this unless you were going to kill them anyway or you had burst from hand. This won't see standard play based on the cards revealed so far.
It's a really niche tech card and with specialist gone i'm not sure it has a relevant place anywhere. Maybe a conquest lineup that is targeting warrior. It's a terrible ladder card tho.
Dumb card. it's either unplayable and useless or completely busted tech card. Bad design.
It isn't going to kill warrior, the only way you would play this is if it was like RoS and warrior was one of the only tier 1 decks, and even then...
what kind of deck uses this? this isn't going to stop warrior from stabilizing against aggro/midrange. its a 5 mana 5/5. Most classes could do more damage with a good card in their deck instead. If the warrior is stacking that much armor they've usually already won, unless you're a deck that can go long enough for you to win anyway like quest shaman.
Blizzard is in a bit of a bind this time though. They can't really nerf Evolve. It's a Wild card that's only back temporarily. (I'm not sure if it's really a problem in Wild?)
So what can they do? I suppose they could remove Evolve and replace it, temporarily, with something else from Wild. I doubt that's going to happen.
All things considered, I wouldn't put it past them to wait until early December and just let November be Shamanstone. I recall when DK Rexxar was everywhere and the most infuriating card to play against. Even after they nerfed the Lesser Emerald Spellstone, there was still a long stretch of time where Hunter was very oppressive. And then the April rotation came. Similarly, I expect Blizzard to do nothing and let the December new expansion / return of the cards to Wild solve the problem by itself.
They could just make evolve 2 mana while it's in standard. I don't know but I hope they fix it soon
Quest shaman is one of my favorite decks of all time but after the initial hype of the new patch died down I don't even feel like playing. shit is degenerate. The shaman mirror used to have a lot of decisions (with a lot of variance) but you could hedge advantages. Now it's literally just "who got the good cards".
I climbed to legend with a pretty strong winrate as quest shaman (before the evolve patch). It's my favorite deck but it's so busted now ladder isn't even fun to play.
Sounds awesome. I'm just now getting into magic arena and I got a LOR key an hour before they took it down so I'll be trying that when it comes back up. Being able to come to OoC for info on all three would be the nuts.
I really like the idea of just having a tab for each one that changes the page and not mixing them all together but thats for you guys to iron out. Looking forward to it.
hit top 200 legend for the first time, and it's in a month where ladder matters more than the last few so that feels kind of good. pretty early in the month too not sure if that is better or worse.
It's looking like the meta has changed a solid amount but maybe not drastically.
Evolve is a huge buff to aggro/token shaman and even quest shaman. But both of those were top decks already
Rag is a buff to highlander decks which are mostly midrange. Emp is a buff to combo decks. Nzoth a buff to control decks, mainly res priest but warrior and warlock are interesting but probably not strong enough.
Mysterious challenger is pretty nutty.
Flamewaker mage is solid but inconsistent, i'm sure apxvoid will refine it.
All in all I don't like the "new" cards that much. I wish there wasn't as much generically powerful stuff and instead some build around stuff to explore "new" archtypes. I didn't really want to see these cards for the rest of this expansion.
Well boys, Flamewaker is breaking the game again. Whats new
Highlander Hunter can beat it pretty consistently, as can any deck doesn't lose to a single boarclear essentially. All Flamewaker can really do is a one turn wipe + burst, and after that they need to RNG further pressure from Cyclone or lose
After trying the deck for myself, I realise how much i get highrolled by the deck. It is incredibly hard to actually get the combo pieces, and by the time they are there, you simply do not survive half the time. It is a very high-rolly deck and you lose most of the time. But when you win, my God do you just delete people
I'M kinda numb to it at this point. I got highrolled by Shaman so much in the past weeks that this just doesn't register as much. Overall we got a lot of really highrolly combos with the update, so I don't think Mage is really going to stick out for too long. I'm more worried about Quest Priest at this point. If they get to play a minion and then follow it up with Psychopomp there's basically no way for any deck that isn't control Warrior to actually beat them (and even those have trouble)
I agree about nzoth priest. it is a bit toxic because if it picks up in popularity it will be very meta warping because it has very polarized match ups. and it's a fairly strong timmy kind of deck and people love to play these decks (like big priest). I think it's finnicky early game against aggressive strategies will keep in check enough but it's a deck i hate queuing into as most things (and i like playing the deck myself)
nzoth priest is very easy to counter if you want to target it though. It's a sitting duck for combo decks like holy wrath paladin and malygos druid and it can also be out greeded by decks that go psuedo infinite.
While doing day 1/2 nzoth decks was super fun, i'm already tired of it on day 3 because it's all i'm queuing into. So I'm just farming them with HW paladin. They can tech against it with Hakkar but it'll take a while for people to catch on and Hakkar is pretty bad in every other matchup for them.
These are all super nice. I've only been playing a little over a year and I don't have 1k wins yet but i'm grinding towards the shaman one since its my main class.
I think he knew this happening was a possibility and he did it anyway, so that is on him. That is pretty noble of him.
I really don't like political talk mixing into sports/esports but I do agree with his cause and think Blizzards punishment was grossly severe. They essentially ended his HS career over it.
This is math. Lose an entire country's revenue, or lose a handful of others who are angered enough to stop playing. Maybe this will cost blizzard some sales, but better than losing China. Activision Blizzard is a public company with a duty to its shareholders to pursue the companies goals. I'm guessing profits is at the top of the goal list, and promoting free speech is not on the goal list.
Don't like it? Be one of those who stops playing. But you can't really blame Blizzard for making a pure business decision. That's what public companies do.
You can definitely blame blizzard for supporting human rights violation to protect their bottom line. I definitely didn't expect any better but there is nothing wrong with trashing them for this. People don't have to just accept that corporations are pro-profit and anti-human. Nothing directed specifically at you, nothing you really said is wrong but it's just terrible that this kind of behavior is completely normalized and the status quo
Aggro warrior is a good deck but it's definitely not close to better than priest. It does have some very strong early highrolls but like priest it also has bad hands that don't do much at times.
Priest is the top deck, VS might have slightly better winrate for warrior because this is a meta centered around priest and warrior is one of the few decks that can beat priest. People build their decks and pick the decks they play with priest in mind first. If the meta was built around countering aggro warrior then warrior would have a much lower winrate than priest currently does because it's much easier to beat.
Also aggro warrior is generally refined. I'm not sure you can change it too much. It's starting to get a lot of play now and people will start to mulligan for warriors with aggro in mind more often.
Evolve is the one i'm most excited about as someone who plays shaman. Desert Hare can be the new Doppelgangster. It's a battlecry so there is quest synergy. lackey synergy with evolve. desert hare wide board cheats out mogu for even bigger evolve. Maybe it doesn't go in quest shaman because there isnt wide board payoff other than the evolve but Jambre's aggro/token shaman has to play this. Seems nuts.
Swashburgler is going to see some play. In vendetta rogue it should see play over the one drop cat.
n'zoth priest is going to be a thing with lightbomb, sylv, and the plethora of good deathrattle activators it has but few payoff.
Flamewaker is going to make cyclone mage a thing again.
Ragnaros maybe is a thing in big shaman or some resurrect priest decks but I think it will mostly be just a strong topend lategame for highlander decks.
Mysterious Challenger and secrets in HL pally for deck thinning and late game power spike.
As someone who's been only playing Magic a few months, this is pretty cool to do. Lets you try out some new cards but also play with cards much older. Crazy how strong some of these old cards are. One mana draw 3, haha.
Well they're super low tempo in general, just not with shaman. They said they wanted shamans invoke/dragon to be tempo oriented. Their dragon's battlecry isn't quite as much value as other classes (though 2 8/8 rushes is still pretty nutty
Holy shit this card is insane. This is a nutty tempo rogue / aggro/quest shaman card. This is 5/5 meta fining. Rogue does a great job of sticking early cheap dudes and this is a huge payoff. the lackey synergy with this is nuts. For 8 mana and a single faceless lackey you can have 3 5/4 rushers and the better of the two 2 drops.
ALSO SHUDDERWOCK SHAMAN IS BACK IN THIS BITCH. MY JAWS THAT BITE
Seems kind of meh but it does have some good spots in the right meta, like what could you be hoping to copy with this.
If your opponent goes wide with minions and you play this, you are giving them the attackers initiative so they have the advantage
If they use a targeted/discover big spells like Pyroblast or Power of creation, you are likely to get shafted where as they got full value.
Copying a board clear probably isn't even good because it might kill this and your opponent probably didn't reload much after clearing the board in the same turn.
What the card is GOOD for however, is huge value minions/spells/hero cards. Hagatha, Boom, Mass Resurrection, etc. This could be good in a really slow meta. That depends if it can copy the rush aura or the battlecry from the new dragon hero.
Yeah, this is true but I don't think it is as polarizing as this. Most tech cards aren't aimed at only one class with such a strong upside against them, but it does happen.
When it comes to skins I usually have nothing negative to say, but that is the fucking ugliest thing I have ever seen. It's almost offensive.
Cardback is sweet though.
That's so niche though. You're going to play a 5 mana 5/5 that's mediocre in every other (standard) class matchup just so you can win games where you almost killed a warrior and they stabilized? you could have just had a good card in your deck that could have added enough pressure to kill them in the first place. In fact, you could be taking a good card out of your deck to put this. Eater of Secrets affects the tempo of the game but this card has zero effect on tempo. You probably won't even kill the warrior if you play this unless you were going to kill them anyway or you had burst from hand. This won't see standard play based on the cards revealed so far.
It's a really niche tech card and with specialist gone i'm not sure it has a relevant place anywhere. Maybe a conquest lineup that is targeting warrior. It's a terrible ladder card tho.
Dumb card. it's either unplayable and useless or completely busted tech card. Bad design.
It isn't going to kill warrior, the only way you would play this is if it was like RoS and warrior was one of the only tier 1 decks, and even then...
what kind of deck uses this? this isn't going to stop warrior from stabilizing against aggro/midrange. its a 5 mana 5/5. Most classes could do more damage with a good card in their deck instead. If the warrior is stacking that much armor they've usually already won, unless you're a deck that can go long enough for you to win anyway like quest shaman.
They do, indeed.
Source: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/1191062771355414528
They could just make evolve 2 mana while it's in standard. I don't know but I hope they fix it soon
Quest shaman is one of my favorite decks of all time but after the initial hype of the new patch died down I don't even feel like playing. shit is degenerate. The shaman mirror used to have a lot of decisions (with a lot of variance) but you could hedge advantages. Now it's literally just "who got the good cards".
I climbed to legend with a pretty strong winrate as quest shaman (before the evolve patch). It's my favorite deck but it's so busted now ladder isn't even fun to play.
Sounds awesome. I'm just now getting into magic arena and I got a LOR key an hour before they took it down so I'll be trying that when it comes back up. Being able to come to OoC for info on all three would be the nuts.
I really like the idea of just having a tab for each one that changes the page and not mixing them all together but thats for you guys to iron out. Looking forward to it.
hit top 200 legend for the first time, and it's in a month where ladder matters more than the last few so that feels kind of good. pretty early in the month too not sure if that is better or worse.
going for 100 now. quest shaman best shaman.
It's looking like the meta has changed a solid amount but maybe not drastically.
Evolve is a huge buff to aggro/token shaman and even quest shaman. But both of those were top decks already
Rag is a buff to highlander decks which are mostly midrange. Emp is a buff to combo decks. Nzoth a buff to control decks, mainly res priest but warrior and warlock are interesting but probably not strong enough.
Mysterious challenger is pretty nutty.
Flamewaker mage is solid but inconsistent, i'm sure apxvoid will refine it.
All in all I don't like the "new" cards that much. I wish there wasn't as much generically powerful stuff and instead some build around stuff to explore "new" archtypes. I didn't really want to see these cards for the rest of this expansion.
I agree about nzoth priest. it is a bit toxic because if it picks up in popularity it will be very meta warping because it has very polarized match ups. and it's a fairly strong timmy kind of deck and people love to play these decks (like big priest). I think it's finnicky early game against aggressive strategies will keep in check enough but it's a deck i hate queuing into as most things (and i like playing the deck myself)
nzoth priest is very easy to counter if you want to target it though. It's a sitting duck for combo decks like holy wrath paladin and malygos druid and it can also be out greeded by decks that go psuedo infinite.
While doing day 1/2 nzoth decks was super fun, i'm already tired of it on day 3 because it's all i'm queuing into. So I'm just farming them with HW paladin. They can tech against it with Hakkar but it'll take a while for people to catch on and Hakkar is pretty bad in every other matchup for them.
These are all super nice. I've only been playing a little over a year and I don't have 1k wins yet but i'm grinding towards the shaman one since its my main class.
I really like warrior, rogue, mage in particular.
I think he knew this happening was a possibility and he did it anyway, so that is on him. That is pretty noble of him.
I really don't like political talk mixing into sports/esports but I do agree with his cause and think Blizzards punishment was grossly severe. They essentially ended his HS career over it.
You can definitely blame blizzard for supporting human rights violation to protect their bottom line. I definitely didn't expect any better but there is nothing wrong with trashing them for this. People don't have to just accept that corporations are pro-profit and anti-human. Nothing directed specifically at you, nothing you really said is wrong but it's just terrible that this kind of behavior is completely normalized and the status quo
Aggro warrior is a good deck but it's definitely not close to better than priest. It does have some very strong early highrolls but like priest it also has bad hands that don't do much at times.
Priest is the top deck, VS might have slightly better winrate for warrior because this is a meta centered around priest and warrior is one of the few decks that can beat priest. People build their decks and pick the decks they play with priest in mind first. If the meta was built around countering aggro warrior then warrior would have a much lower winrate than priest currently does because it's much easier to beat.
Also aggro warrior is generally refined. I'm not sure you can change it too much. It's starting to get a lot of play now and people will start to mulligan for warriors with aggro in mind more often.
Evolve is the one i'm most excited about as someone who plays shaman. Desert Hare can be the new Doppelgangster. It's a battlecry so there is quest synergy. lackey synergy with evolve. desert hare wide board cheats out mogu for even bigger evolve. Maybe it doesn't go in quest shaman because there isnt wide board payoff other than the evolve but Jambre's aggro/token shaman has to play this. Seems nuts.
Swashburgler is going to see some play. In vendetta rogue it should see play over the one drop cat.
n'zoth priest is going to be a thing with lightbomb, sylv, and the plethora of good deathrattle activators it has but few payoff.
Flamewaker is going to make cyclone mage a thing again.
Ragnaros maybe is a thing in big shaman or some resurrect priest decks but I think it will mostly be just a strong topend lategame for highlander decks.
Mysterious Challenger and secrets in HL pally for deck thinning and late game power spike.