Personally, those changes work fine for me. I mainly play ranked games anyway, and I’m excited to have a reason to open packs more often than every 4 months. (With duplicate protection, it will be easy to get the commons and rares. For epics and legendaries, I’ll hope for some luck but craft what I need, just as with main sets.)
I agree that different people will have different reactions to these changes, though. Hopefully Blizzard is approaching a system that works for more people.
I wonder why they preemptively nerfed Highlander Hunter but not Evolve Shaman. Shaman already had one of the strongest decks, and it was held in check only by tough matchups against Demon Hunter and Face Hunter. What’s going to stop it from dominating now
My take on these changes: With the 20% XP boost and the restored rewards during events, this system is now slightly more rewarding than the old one was. Also, with the hardest quests fixed and Brawls usable for quests, the game doesn’t require any more time than it used to.
Hearthstone has always been more expensive than most (not all) F2P Hans, but also less demanding than most about your time commitment. This is still true. The changes are real, but minor.
It’s perfectly valid to think the game is too greedy or expensive, but if you think that then you should have quit it years ago. The expense isn’t a flaw of the new system.
Very fair. I think Blizzard’s biggest mistake was in giving people the chance to reevaluate what they’re spending on Hearthstone.
Personally, it’s been great for me. My spending averages out to about the cost of a Netflix subscription, but I use this a lot more. And it keeps me from buying tons o AAA games that I’ll never play, so I’m pretty sure that Hearthstone saves me money in the long run. But it is expensive if you’re not enjoying it, and I hope that everyone who’s stuck in an unhealthy cycle with the game finds the chance to switch to something they like more.
“We will still have in-game events, of course, but they will remain consistent with our existing approach to event rewards instead of rewarding bonus XP for the rewards track.”
So yes, there will be events. We’ll get cards or packs from them.
The takeaway from this is that we’ll no longer get slightly fewer rewards in return for slightly more work. Not it legitimately sounds like slightly more rewards for the same amount of work as before. There are still reasons to dislike the system, but they’re generally reasons why one wouldn’t have liked Hearthstone to begin with.
Ah, I see what you’re thinking. You’re right that if you only care about a couple specific legendaries, to the point where you would dust EVERYTHING that’s not them, then those legendaries are only worth 400 dust each.
Everyone will have different goals. But Flux and I are both assuming that the person in question would keep most legendaries in their collection. I think you’re making a good point that 1600 dust should get you a card you care about more than a random legendary. I’m not sure exactly what the final calculated value would be.
I already was “that guy” below. But your math is off, too. Flux is calculating what it would take to craft new legendaries, so he’s figuring out how you can get to 3200 dust. That part is correct.
The mistake the article made was that you also get legendaries in your packs. The math assumed that you’d disenchant those legendaries to get the dust to craft more. But you don’t disenchant them, you’ll net more legendaries in the end.
The calculation that this site always uses for these deals bugs me: You get a legendary about every 20 packs, and the estimate that packs are worth 102 dust assumes that you’re disenchanting every card. But if you’re focused on earning legendaries, wouldn’t you keep the ones you drew from the packs?!?
My personal records have me earning about 70 dust per pack if I subtract the value of the legendaries. I’ll defer to others with larger data sets for exact numbers. But if we assume each pack has a 5% chance of drawing a legendary and gives you 70 dust (4.4% of 1600), then we see that one legendary is worth 10-11 packs.
Also, remember not to let Hearthstone trick you into thinking that anything better than its baseline prices are a good deal. The make the base shop prices ridiculously high so that deals like these seem hard to pass up.
When a new set completely dominates the meta: “The power creep is huge!” “How can I afford all these new cards so quickly?” “This will be unplayable until nerds arrive!”
When a new set doesn’t completely dominate the meta: “What a disappointment!” “The game is so stale.”
Come on. I’d say 2/3 of the decks I’m facing on the ladder are built around new cards. That’s probably the sweet spot in terms of providing variety without punishing budget players. Great job, Blizzard
I have a theory: Blizzard did the math, calculated that the extra Epic and Legendary on the track were worth at least 15 packs, and so by their calculations this new system is equivalent to the old one. Now everyone is mad, and Blizzard is afraid to show their math because they don’t want to admit how overpriced the Legendaries are..
Not gonna downvote you. I agree that a lot of the reaction is overblown. I still think this is a legitimate problem, though. (As far as recent F2P blow-ups do, I’d say this is worse than Runeterra mixing a pop band into their world, but not as bad as Magic’s Walking Dead set or Clash Royale’s Clan Wars overhaul.)
I’m curious if you have a good-faith calculation that shows this system being an improvement. I’ve only made vague estimates myself, but they came out to “about the same, if you look at it right”, and they were assuming we’d get the usual free legendary and packs when the expansion launched.
Yes, they’ve said that. And I kept defending Blizzard on this site because I believed them. But I realize now that I was wrong.
I’m not sure how I was arguing in bad faith. Most calculations to date haven’t accounted for the fact that we could expect several extra packs thanks to events. If they’re supposed to account for events, they should remember what we used to get from events instead of just adding in what they will give in the future.
Traditionally, events give us a lot of extra packs or gold. If they will now give us experience, that IS NOT BONUS EXPERIENCE. Instead, we’re losing the event’s traditional bonuses, and the progression track needs to provide even MORE to make it work.
What I hear is “we'll give you more than you got from daily quests and crowns, as long as you forget about the other things you used to get.
I’m a dad, and I probably play 20-60 minutes a day. Just calculating 7 daily quests and 3 weekly quests every week, times 16 weeks between expansions, plus extra XP for play time, wins, and achievements, I estimate that I’d make it to about rank 60. Now that the new day has started and I see that we get MULTIPLE daily quests every day, I expect to go even farther! (Edit: Never mind. I misread the new interface. Just 1 daily per day.) The gold plus the free packs and legendary cards seems slightly better than are at least as good asI would have had before, though it’s not the clear improvement I’d hoped for.
I don’t think it got more expensive. The pass is mainly for cosmetics. The XP bonus will give you some extra packs, but it doesn't change things significantly compared to spending that money directly in the shop. That can be considered strictly optional.
I do have a few concerns: Will they still give us legendary quests with free packs when the expansion launches? They might not since there are a bunch of free packs at the start of the track. If they don’t, that’s stingier. Also, I’m hearing mixed comments about whether you earn rewards for casual, brawl, and friend matches. If those don’t give you the XP, then this will be a lot worse for some people.
$20 for a 4-month pass seems exactly right to me. That’s $5/month, which is my threshold for a no-brainer monthly pass in a game I play a lot. It seems tuned to be more than worth it if you want the cosmetics, but the in-game additions are small enough that no one feels forced to buy it to stay competitive. Perfect
I would love to have a couple of the guardians in the premium pass, but I still feel like I have more guardians than I can use thanks to the Spirit Blossom event. LoR makes so many cosmetics that I hope most players don’t worry about being completists.
There is a very good chance that Stellacorn will be available with an alternate skin before long, if that helps.
They said it would be November 17th when they made the announcement last week, but that was largely overlooked because there was SO MUCH news.
I’m happy about this. 4 months is too long between sets now that the internet solves the meta in the first couple weeks. Scholomance gets 3.5 months this way, and since a mini-expansion is coming later, it’s fine if Darkmoon lasts a little longer than 4 months.
I really hope the smaller pre-order costs less than $50 US this time. It has 10 fewer packs than it did in the last couple pre-orders, so it’s a disappointing deal unless you put a lot of value on early access to Duels. If this turns out to be $40, I’ll be happy.
So there’s no lab to experiment with the new expansion cards? I had been looking forward to that
Personally, those changes work fine for me. I mainly play ranked games anyway, and I’m excited to have a reason to open packs more often than every 4 months. (With duplicate protection, it will be easy to get the commons and rares. For epics and legendaries, I’ll hope for some luck but craft what I need, just as with main sets.)
I agree that different people will have different reactions to these changes, though. Hopefully Blizzard is approaching a system that works for more people.
I wonder why they preemptively nerfed Highlander Hunter but not Evolve Shaman. Shaman already had one of the strongest decks, and it was held in check only by tough matchups against Demon Hunter and Face Hunter. What’s going to stop it from dominating now
My take on these changes: With the 20% XP boost and the restored rewards during events, this system is now slightly more rewarding than the old one was. Also, with the hardest quests fixed and Brawls usable for quests, the game doesn’t require any more time than it used to.
Hearthstone has always been more expensive than most (not all) F2P Hans, but also less demanding than most about your time commitment. This is still true. The changes are real, but minor.
It’s perfectly valid to think the game is too greedy or expensive, but if you think that then you should have quit it years ago. The expense isn’t a flaw of the new system.
Very fair. I think Blizzard’s biggest mistake was in giving people the chance to reevaluate what they’re spending on Hearthstone.
Personally, it’s been great for me. My spending averages out to about the cost of a Netflix subscription, but I use this a lot more. And it keeps me from buying tons o AAA games that I’ll never play, so I’m pretty sure that Hearthstone saves me money in the long run. But it is expensive if you’re not enjoying it, and I hope that everyone who’s stuck in an unhealthy cycle with the game finds the chance to switch to something they like more.
“We will still have in-game events, of course, but they will remain consistent with our existing approach to event rewards instead of rewarding bonus XP for the rewards track.”
So yes, there will be events. We’ll get cards or packs from them.
The takeaway from this is that we’ll no longer get slightly fewer rewards in return for slightly more work. Not it legitimately sounds like slightly more rewards for the same amount of work as before. There are still reasons to dislike the system, but they’re generally reasons why one wouldn’t have liked Hearthstone to begin with.
Ah, I see what you’re thinking. You’re right that if you only care about a couple specific legendaries, to the point where you would dust EVERYTHING that’s not them, then those legendaries are only worth 400 dust each.
Everyone will have different goals. But Flux and I are both assuming that the person in question would keep most legendaries in their collection. I think you’re making a good point that 1600 dust should get you a card you care about more than a random legendary. I’m not sure exactly what the final calculated value would be.
I already was “that guy” below. But your math is off, too. Flux is calculating what it would take to craft new legendaries, so he’s figuring out how you can get to 3200 dust. That part is correct.
The mistake the article made was that you also get legendaries in your packs. The math assumed that you’d disenchant those legendaries to get the dust to craft more. But you don’t disenchant them, you’ll net more legendaries in the end.
The calculation that this site always uses for these deals bugs me: You get a legendary about every 20 packs, and the estimate that packs are worth 102 dust assumes that you’re disenchanting every card. But if you’re focused on earning legendaries, wouldn’t you keep the ones you drew from the packs?!?
My personal records have me earning about 70 dust per pack if I subtract the value of the legendaries. I’ll defer to others with larger data sets for exact numbers. But if we assume each pack has a 5% chance of drawing a legendary and gives you 70 dust (4.4% of 1600), then we see that one legendary is worth 10-11 packs.
Also, remember not to let Hearthstone trick you into thinking that anything better than its baseline prices are a good deal. The make the base shop prices ridiculously high so that deals like these seem hard to pass up.
When a new set completely dominates the meta: “The power creep is huge!” “How can I afford all these new cards so quickly?” “This will be unplayable until nerds arrive!”
When a new set doesn’t completely dominate the meta: “What a disappointment!” “The game is so stale.”
Come on. I’d say 2/3 of the decks I’m facing on the ladder are built around new cards. That’s probably the sweet spot in terms of providing variety without punishing budget players. Great job, Blizzard
I have a theory: Blizzard did the math, calculated that the extra Epic and Legendary on the track were worth at least 15 packs, and so by their calculations this new system is equivalent to the old one. Now everyone is mad, and Blizzard is afraid to show their math because they don’t want to admit how overpriced the Legendaries are..
Not gonna downvote you. I agree that a lot of the reaction is overblown. I still think this is a legitimate problem, though. (As far as recent F2P blow-ups do, I’d say this is worse than Runeterra mixing a pop band into their world, but not as bad as Magic’s Walking Dead set or Clash Royale’s Clan Wars overhaul.)
I’m curious if you have a good-faith calculation that shows this system being an improvement. I’ve only made vague estimates myself, but they came out to “about the same, if you look at it right”, and they were assuming we’d get the usual free legendary and packs when the expansion launched.
Yes, they’ve said that. And I kept defending Blizzard on this site because I believed them. But I realize now that I was wrong.
I’m not sure how I was arguing in bad faith. Most calculations to date haven’t accounted for the fact that we could expect several extra packs thanks to events. If they’re supposed to account for events, they should remember what we used to get from events instead of just adding in what they will give in the future.
Traditionally, events give us a lot of extra packs or gold. If they will now give us experience, that IS NOT BONUS EXPERIENCE. Instead, we’re losing the event’s traditional bonuses, and the progression track needs to provide even MORE to make it work.
What I hear is “we'll give you more than you got from daily quests and crowns, as long as you forget about the other things you used to get.
I’m a dad, and I probably play 20-60 minutes a day. Just calculating 7 daily quests and 3 weekly quests every week, times 16 weeks between expansions, plus extra XP for play time, wins, and achievements, I estimate that I’d make it to about rank 60. Now that the new day has started and I see that we get MULTIPLE daily quests every day, I expect to go even farther! (Edit: Never mind. I misread the new interface. Just 1 daily per day.) The gold plus the free packs and legendary cards seems slightly better than are at least as good asI would have had before, though it’s not the clear improvement I’d hoped for.
I don’t think it got more expensive. The pass is mainly for cosmetics. The XP bonus will give you some extra packs, but it doesn't change things significantly compared to spending that money directly in the shop. That can be considered strictly optional.
I do have a few concerns: Will they still give us legendary quests with free packs when the expansion launches? They might not since there are a bunch of free packs at the start of the track. If they don’t, that’s stingier. Also, I’m hearing mixed comments about whether you earn rewards for casual, brawl, and friend matches. If those don’t give you the XP, then this will be a lot worse for some people.
I saw that too. Then my client crashed(?!). When I opened it back up, I didn’t have those quests or the rewards.
$20 for a 4-month pass seems exactly right to me. That’s $5/month, which is my threshold for a no-brainer monthly pass in a game I play a lot. It seems tuned to be more than worth it if you want the cosmetics, but the in-game additions are small enough that no one feels forced to buy it to stay competitive. Perfect
I would love to have a couple of the guardians in the premium pass, but I still feel like I have more guardians than I can use thanks to the Spirit Blossom event. LoR makes so many cosmetics that I hope most players don’t worry about being completists.
There is a very good chance that Stellacorn will be available with an alternate skin before long, if that helps.
They said it would be November 17th when they made the announcement last week, but that was largely overlooked because there was SO MUCH news.
I’m happy about this. 4 months is too long between sets now that the internet solves the meta in the first couple weeks. Scholomance gets 3.5 months this way, and since a mini-expansion is coming later, it’s fine if Darkmoon lasts a little longer than 4 months.
I really hope the smaller pre-order costs less than $50 US this time. It has 10 fewer packs than it did in the last couple pre-orders, so it’s a disappointing deal unless you put a lot of value on early access to Duels. If this turns out to be $40, I’ll be happy.