It has more to do with the update frequency where Blizzard and Wizards have shown an unwillingness to provide meaningful balance changes every two weeks, Riot has been on it, and doing a great job. I would say right now there are very few things that feel over-tuned that means context is the biggest contributor to win rates at the moment.
As opposed to mtg where it's like literally 25 percent of people play this deck because it is optimal it cheats out mana and everything else is inferior by design.
Now that we have the patch changes where yoink was turned into nab, and cards are stolen from the bottom of the deck, issues have been resolved. As long as you are running two of a given card, you have decent odds to draw it even if one is stolen. Streamers call this a buff because it means you are less likely to draw your champ because you aren't getting milled from the top anymore, but I would say that any list that can't function without a champ in hand is fundamentally broken. This is why most ionia control lists should be running solitary monk on top of shadow assassin, giving you a good plan B option, or just run tutors...
Let's say you're playing keg control, with 3 gangplanks and 3 dreadway. That's effectively 6 gankplank draws, if you count thresh that goes up to 9. So now one third of your deck is gangplank, you are guaranteed to have him, and have multiple copies as insurance. So yoink milling you was a bug not a feature, and rebuild your lists accordingly.
Yep Kinkou elusives is a very strong a flexible deck. You can even drop the 7 mana hatchling if it bricks your hand, and cut out zed if you feel like he's not getting past chump blockers, and it makes no difference to how the deck plays and it's relative strengths, or you just run the new crimson elusive burn. With all that being said, I don't find the top tier aggro decks oppressive at all, not like before when burn aggro was everywhere.
Yeah you do have to increasingly ask yourself, will this card loose me the game against yoink, when it should be do I want to run this card because it's fun. The harrowing is a great example I had to cut it because it got yoinked, so out it goes.
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You have to run a control list with only cards that are either removal or help you land your combo
This patch is gearing up to be hugely impactful, with the tuning down of a few troublesome mechanics like yoink, and the buffing of several unplayable epics like Farron, shadowblade, and Jae.
Let's post our ideas for new lists on this thread, and I'll start us off with a fun budget aggro list with Ren.
He's a 4 mana 3/3 with quick attack that creates a show fiend in hand
The health change isn't that big of a deal because you can just play pilfered goods at burst speed so you still get your discounts, but now merchants die to withering wail and vile feast which is very significant. Grabbing from the bottom just means that you aren't denying your opponent draws, which pilfered goods should have never done in the first place. Should lead to fewer instances of like hey I got your undying you were just about to draw and now my board survives ruination and yours doesn't even though that's the entire point of your deck.
I was honestly just talking about the yoink package that being pilfered goods, merchant, grifter. Everything else in this game is fine with me personally, I think there are adequate counters and playarounds, yoink just is a little overtuned and provides way too many answers, when that wasn't how it was designed or intended.
Glad you made this thread, because this is the other big contentious deck running around right now. It has a pretty clear weakness against elusives, because all of the chump blockers don't do anything against that deck, but against everything else it turns out that playing a bunch of junk, into a neverglade collector to gain you life, into a they who endure is a little too consistent. You don't even need to run champions for it to be good.
I am guilty of playing the card now and then, which is probably pretty tilting for the opponent.
Edit - You're talking agent of treachery which is 7 mana and steals off board. I would be fine with that, if there was 10 mana card in legends of runterra that said steal a follower I don't think anyone would care, because it would be really bad, it's when you get to literally deny value from your opponents deck and transplant it into your that's where you find problems.
Examples
1. Deck Buffs/hand buffs tempo can't run this because they need allegience and fast plays, but if they get yours it's huge
2. Additional sources of draw, if they get yours this multiplies their card advantage
3. Fast speed answers, again they don't have it but if they get yours they literally get to role play as control
4. Burst speed tricks, against always useful regardless of your deck
5. Value creatures or champion tutors, they run Sej but no tutors so taking yours is huge
I literally just listed things that exist in almost every deck, the only deck that doesn't run these things is deep because they just need to toss and play big creatures, and unlike deck buffs, the deep buff doesn't transfer to the opponent when stolen because it counts the number of cards left in your deck
I played mtg Arena extensively, Gwent, Hearthstone, and others. Stealing has never been a thing in those games, that's probably why it's been difficult to balance for riot, they have nothing to draw upon experience wise. Now randomization sure, that's pretty normal in hearthstone, but it's always from a random card pool not your opponents deck. Random cards have huge variance, but your opponents cards are usually good, otherwise why would they run them to begin with. Like hey thanks for the rekindler so I get a 4/4 and I get to bring back a champion, what if I draw 2 for 2 mana, that's nuts, and I don't even have to run shadow isles to play them.
Dude you should see mogwai rave about the mechanic, because card value is relative to context. For instance if I steal a ruination and that's exactly the card I need then the value can be considered to be 2x that of anything in my deck.
Hey so I thought it would be fun to run through a single game vs tempo yoink and outline every card that was stolen and the role it played in winning the game for the opponent, and how their absence of said cards would have resulted in a loss. Keep in mind yoinked cards are not revealed so I have to assume they can be playing any card from my deck so that doubles the number of variables to play around than your average game.
1. A harsh winds is stolen, nullifying an attack to kill a sejuani
2. A glimpse is stolen to nullify a vengence targeting a sejuani and drawing the opponent 2
3. A buffed hearth guard is stolen, buffing my opponent entire deck and providing a 6/6 body
4. A buffed sentry is stolen providing the opponent 1 draw and a 4/3 body for 2
5. A babbling berg is stolen tutoring for a sejuani
The plays made by the opponent were rather low impact relative to the card advantage and control answers provided by my own deck
So I look forward to the get good scrub, dark souls logic, but in those games you don't get your sword stolen only for the boss to stab you with it.
It has more to do with the update frequency where Blizzard and Wizards have shown an unwillingness to provide meaningful balance changes every two weeks, Riot has been on it, and doing a great job. I would say right now there are very few things that feel over-tuned that means context is the biggest contributor to win rates at the moment.
As opposed to mtg where it's like literally 25 percent of people play this deck because it is optimal it cheats out mana and everything else is inferior by design.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard#paper
I want to start by apologizing for what is going to be an indepth analysis of logical fallacies, in relations to net decking in Legends of Runterra.
Be aware, this doesn't apply to games like mtg or hearthstone where net decks are actually just objectively better.
We are going to use Elusive burn as an example https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/brpb1t1la4s47cjpnfn0
Originally this list used to feature two potions two retreats and 0 zeds
These 4 cards or slots in the deck are what we call tech choices, they exist to counter the decks you are likely to run into on ladder
The only problem is that said slots can only exist as good in a specific time and space in which they are intended.
For example retreat is at it's best when it counters get excited which forces the opponent to go down a card, which is found in Heimer Vi
The play rate of Heimer Vi is lower than initially thought and we replace it with Zed which is better in every other instance
Therefore you are better off coming to these conclusions yourself because you will always be faster than the meta shifts.
Please feel free to discuss but keep it civil - heart you all
Now that we have the patch changes where yoink was turned into nab, and cards are stolen from the bottom of the deck, issues have been resolved. As long as you are running two of a given card, you have decent odds to draw it even if one is stolen. Streamers call this a buff because it means you are less likely to draw your champ because you aren't getting milled from the top anymore, but I would say that any list that can't function without a champ in hand is fundamentally broken. This is why most ionia control lists should be running solitary monk on top of shadow assassin, giving you a good plan B option, or just run tutors...
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Let's say you're playing keg control, with 3 gangplanks and 3 dreadway. That's effectively 6 gankplank draws, if you count thresh that goes up to 9. So now one third of your deck is gangplank, you are guaranteed to have him, and have multiple copies as insurance. So yoink milling you was a bug not a feature, and rebuild your lists accordingly.
Yuuuup lol. Funny stuff, I did say before that braum vlad was gonna be really good, people weren't thrilled.
Yep Kinkou elusives is a very strong a flexible deck. You can even drop the 7 mana hatchling if it bricks your hand, and cut out zed if you feel like he's not getting past chump blockers, and it makes no difference to how the deck plays and it's relative strengths, or you just run the new crimson elusive burn. With all that being said, I don't find the top tier aggro decks oppressive at all, not like before when burn aggro was everywhere.
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I'll be honest I'm pretty luke warm about the predictions for the new season.
It's a lot of elusives, and burn in tier 1, along with Heimer that also just generates elusives.
That being said what isn't there is very healthy with endure and yoink dropping down to Tier 2.
The good news is that it's pretty easy to tech against aggro, especially if you're running shadow isles anyway.
Let me know what you guys think, again not endorsing these opinions so don't hate on me, just passing on the info for the hardcore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sPmy--U6EM
Agreed I would stick with the Ren Shadowblade rework which is a lot better.
Yeah you do have to increasingly ask yourself, will this card loose me the game against yoink, when it should be do I want to run this card because it's fun. The harrowing is a great example I had to cut it because it got yoinked, so out it goes.
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You have to run a control list with only cards that are either removal or help you land your combo
Yep the buff to braum is pretty good, makes Vlad seem very well positioned.
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https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/patch-1-4-notes-the-season-of-fortune/
Hey guys.
This patch is gearing up to be hugely impactful, with the tuning down of a few troublesome mechanics like yoink, and the buffing of several unplayable epics like Farron, shadowblade, and Jae.
Let's post our ideas for new lists on this thread, and I'll start us off with a fun budget aggro list with Ren.
He's a 4 mana 3/3 with quick attack that creates a show fiend in hand
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I'd love to see what your ideas are as well.
The health change isn't that big of a deal because you can just play pilfered goods at burst speed so you still get your discounts, but now merchants die to withering wail and vile feast which is very significant. Grabbing from the bottom just means that you aren't denying your opponent draws, which pilfered goods should have never done in the first place. Should lead to fewer instances of like hey I got your undying you were just about to draw and now my board survives ruination and yours doesn't even though that's the entire point of your deck.
changes are outlined here, yoink will now take from the bottom of the deck, and black market merchant will have one less health.
This does one very key thing, yoink will no longer deny you valuable draws, but it will still be top tier probably, it will just work as intended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU7nzJsR6eg&t=1127s
In the casual que right now 4/5 games are against yoink decks so hopefully they are addressing this in the patch notes tomorrow
I was honestly just talking about the yoink package that being pilfered goods, merchant, grifter. Everything else in this game is fine with me personally, I think there are adequate counters and playarounds, yoink just is a little overtuned and provides way too many answers, when that wasn't how it was designed or intended.
Glad you made this thread, because this is the other big contentious deck running around right now. It has a pretty clear weakness against elusives, because all of the chump blockers don't do anything against that deck, but against everything else it turns out that playing a bunch of junk, into a neverglade collector to gain you life, into a they who endure is a little too consistent. You don't even need to run champions for it to be good.
I am guilty of playing the card now and then, which is probably pretty tilting for the opponent.
Edit - You're talking agent of treachery which is 7 mana and steals off board. I would be fine with that, if there was 10 mana card in legends of runterra that said steal a follower I don't think anyone would care, because it would be really bad, it's when you get to literally deny value from your opponents deck and transplant it into your that's where you find problems.
Examples
1. Deck Buffs/hand buffs tempo can't run this because they need allegience and fast plays, but if they get yours it's huge
2. Additional sources of draw, if they get yours this multiplies their card advantage
3. Fast speed answers, again they don't have it but if they get yours they literally get to role play as control
4. Burst speed tricks, against always useful regardless of your deck
5. Value creatures or champion tutors, they run Sej but no tutors so taking yours is huge
I literally just listed things that exist in almost every deck, the only deck that doesn't run these things is deep because they just need to toss and play big creatures, and unlike deck buffs, the deep buff doesn't transfer to the opponent when stolen because it counts the number of cards left in your deck
I played mtg Arena extensively, Gwent, Hearthstone, and others. Stealing has never been a thing in those games, that's probably why it's been difficult to balance for riot, they have nothing to draw upon experience wise. Now randomization sure, that's pretty normal in hearthstone, but it's always from a random card pool not your opponents deck. Random cards have huge variance, but your opponents cards are usually good, otherwise why would they run them to begin with. Like hey thanks for the rekindler so I get a 4/4 and I get to bring back a champion, what if I draw 2 for 2 mana, that's nuts, and I don't even have to run shadow isles to play them.
It's become enough of an issue that streamers are running deep just so that they steal toss cards which are awful for the opponent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYHmPTL6qv4
Dude you should see mogwai rave about the mechanic, because card value is relative to context. For instance if I steal a ruination and that's exactly the card I need then the value can be considered to be 2x that of anything in my deck.
Hey so I thought it would be fun to run through a single game vs tempo yoink and outline every card that was stolen and the role it played in winning the game for the opponent, and how their absence of said cards would have resulted in a loss. Keep in mind yoinked cards are not revealed so I have to assume they can be playing any card from my deck so that doubles the number of variables to play around than your average game.
1. A harsh winds is stolen, nullifying an attack to kill a sejuani
2. A glimpse is stolen to nullify a vengence targeting a sejuani and drawing the opponent 2
3. A buffed hearth guard is stolen, buffing my opponent entire deck and providing a 6/6 body
4. A buffed sentry is stolen providing the opponent 1 draw and a 4/3 body for 2
5. A babbling berg is stolen tutoring for a sejuani
The plays made by the opponent were rather low impact relative to the card advantage and control answers provided by my own deck
So I look forward to the get good scrub, dark souls logic, but in those games you don't get your sword stolen only for the boss to stab you with it.