Yeah lux thresh is pretty legit, and everyone knows scouts is good. Farron has done well for me personally, I always find that opponents know how to answer 1 Swain 1 Leviathan, and they are sitting at 8 - 6 health with no healing, or you just wiff on leviathan on certain hands, or it's Sej Ash and they are just like clogging the board with big dudes, rex will do nothing. But if it's an Ezreal list rex will destroy them so that's your 50/50
Yeah, there are valid aggro solutions still present in the game like various draven lists, also they who endure presents a problem, you can't remove a 20/20 overwhelm unless you have shadow in your list too. Trafarian assessor generating too much value etc.
It's important to understand that win rate's overall have never been lower, and they vary from 70 - 30 depending on matchup.
It's all just about picking what is working against what everyone else is playing.
Just a small thought proposition. It seems like most of the decks being played are either Demacia, or Freijord oriented both regions win the game by spamming the board with big dudes. If you counter this with a death rattle oriented shadow deck with 3 ruinations you seem to basically auto win 90 percent of the time. What do you guys think?
It would only be a 9/6 leveled which played on curve on 4 as you stated is literally impossible, and if youre playing it off curve the mana discount is useless so which one is it? So no I won't humor your 2 percent of games scenario.
Playing a 4 mana dead on attack heckarim doesn't seem amazing. It also would only happen in a very small number of hand states probably 1/20 statistically. That still doesn't make it an aggro deck.
Typically when I refer to midrange in Legends that is talking about the mana curve of a deck. So for example the old burn aggro or elusives didn't run creatures over 4 mana. Heckarim is six mana, so he is not an aggro card. This isn't mtg everything is creature or damage based to one extent or another it's just a question of how you get there. So yes every deck needs early drops, which is more in line with how hearthstone is played, unless you're playing another slow list and then open passing the first two rounds is fine.
The developers said that they didn't want true aggro in the game, and thats very much what we have right now. While you can run elements of elusive, elements of aggro, or elements of burn you still need to have a solid midrange champ plan to go with it. I don't hate that, you can basically play what you want right now.
Grenadier feels fine, being a 3/2 with upside is arguably a buff, gets to swing in and then latter deals 1 damage is a good aggressive card. However crimson disciple being a 2/3 with sometimes upside of doing 1 damage feels infinitely worse. Its possible you only run it in vlad decks now.
Yeah I know what you're saying if you dont like the darrowing solution against Yassao. You can try burn, indirect damage, plus their lack of healing should make for a hard counter. In my other post I include an aggro swain/ezreal list that should just rock them.
Here we are, I've nearly completed my free to play collection, and can provide a deck for literally every champion in the game except for Fiz who is just kind of irritating lol.
I thought I would try a new series where we talk about the top decks being played and their relative weaknesses.
The variance featured in any card game means that it's possible to que into certain decks over and over even if they aren't statistically played the highest.
So we're going to tackle all of the usual suspects ranging from Tier 1 - Tier 2 based on popular archetypes.
1. Bilegewater Bannerman
A very straightforward list that uses Lucian and mf, in combination with going wide with lots of little dudes and buffing with barriers, and stats
The best counter to this list in on curve removal, deal with threats as they are played which will deny their aggro and snowball potential
Keep in mind rangers resolve is always an option for them and will be played in response to aoe
As for brews, any region will work as long as it's slanted towards control, with pinging effects available to shadow, P and Z, Bilge being the best
2. Ezreal TF
This is the ultimate yoink, control, endgame burn monster, that only has three overt weakness.
The first is just to play so many big dudes that 7 pings off a riptide rex isn't a big deal, deep can do this or freijord
The second is play a bunch of shadow chump that only gains value when they die like in they who endure
The third is play fast and hard with aggro
So there is no perfect brew approach just experiment with these three solutions to see what works best
3. Ash Sej
Thought to be the best midrange list, and it probably is.
It runs a ton of 5 attack creatures, and than draws off trifarian assessor
It frostbites you during combat
And it even has 1 board clear
There is only 1 weakness here and that is haaaaaard control
I'm talking, ruination, vengence, thermo beam, anything that kills unconditionally
4. Deep
Deep plays big dudes, and mills you, and it's annoying but it's also balanced
Damage done that ignores board state is your friend here
Experiment with elusives, burn options, and Ezreal to find what works best
Beyond that will of ionia is still a card and concussive palm so that region is a valid option here
As for trying to out control them that is a very bad option, go with aggro instead.
5. They who endure
Plays a bunch of dudes that threaten just enough damage to possible kills you, and then plays a 20/20 overwhelm
Another list that is designed to beat control, and aggro by draining their resources.
Here I would suggest a solid value midrange brew, play stuff that isn't threatened by their little dudes, but also will win you the game before their trump card gets too big to deal with.
Ash Sej is a solid option, tempo Sej, bannerman variants, discard because they don't have removal for jinx.
6. Burn variants
Burn will always be a thing in legends in some shape or form, because non combat damage is very good against some lists
Therefore the best counter will always be healing, usually whatever you're playing is fine but incorporate 6 - 10 points of healing for a big uptick in wins.
7. Elusives
Always tricky to play against, because winning games quickly go to losing games
Fast speed removal is your best friend here, with single combat being the a real headache the same is true of challenger
You're taking an un-interactive board and forcing interactivity, so Demacia is a solid counter
consider lux, or bannerman
8. Tempo Sej
Plays a bunch of dudes along with yoink and riptide rex
Used to be the strongest deck in the game, and is still very good.
Deep is the best yoink counter
you give them useless cards, think of high synergy brews
9. Darrowing
Nox allegience aggro, with Darius and harrowing as their endgame plan
This list can present a brewing challenge, because you are on two clocks.
The first is you die to aggro because you didn't brew in enough removal
The second is you die to harrowing
Ezreal lists are a great option here because you will be able to deal with the aggro, and burn them down when they play harrowing.
10. Karma/ Yassao
Ionia is very good at disruption, and very bad at hard removal
If you run a list that is good at board development you will win
Darrowing is a great option here, you present an aggressive board state, and even if it gets controlled out
What it sounds like here is that you're struggling against slow decks like shadow and freijord, and cards like riptide rex as a 3 of will help, and so will yoink as much as I hate to say it, because you can steal their glimpse and use it to counter their own removal, although it's a liability against deep so up to you.
Never before have we seen such a level of region balance in Legends of Runterra, which necessitates a new ranking system for my region tier list series, we will now be using a simple tier 1 to 3 ranking. Once again ranking are based on two things, the first being the number of OP decks being played competitively, and number 2 is the variety of lists that can be played semi competitively.
Tier 1 - P and Z, Bilgewater
Bilgewater allegience is proving to be the control deck of choice now that healing isn't as useful with the absence of aggro.
There are a number of pinging effects that can be buffed with kegs, and riptide rex is a board clear on a body
Yoink is still great on merchant and grifter offering insane card advantage
As for P and Z, Ezreal is an easy wincon for control decks, and Jinx has been buffed through her followers to be an aggro alternative
Vi and Heimer are still fine, even if they don't have a home at the moment.
Karma used to be overpowered at 5 mana, at 6 she's just okay, especially with the meditation nerf. The issue is that she's only good with very specific champion support, doubling ezreal procs for example, she can also double heimer turret generation.
Yeah lux thresh is pretty legit, and everyone knows scouts is good. Farron has done well for me personally, I always find that opponents know how to answer 1 Swain 1 Leviathan, and they are sitting at 8 - 6 health with no healing, or you just wiff on leviathan on certain hands, or it's Sej Ash and they are just like clogging the board with big dudes, rex will do nothing. But if it's an Ezreal list rex will destroy them so that's your 50/50
I also generally site info, so while the sources can be wrong, they are at the very least trying to informative.
You're not busting my bubble, that's the whole point of a forum, to discuss.
I personally hadn't seen anyone play TF Swain so I was rather shocked that the stats were showing it at the top.
But I haven't seen a Shen player in like 50 games either, so I'd be interested in knowing where you got that info from.
We have a new highest win rate deck in legends of Runterra, and that's Swain TF.
I'll include my version that just swaps riptide rex for farron, because he's been getting good results on stream lately.
Now I personally haven't seen anyone playing this list at all, have you guys?
This is according to mobalytics, 57 percent wins, with 3000 games
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/regions
Swim was promoting heck on stream, and I think that might of helped people re-evaluate their lists. Cut shark chariot for instance.
Yeah, there are valid aggro solutions still present in the game like various draven lists, also they who endure presents a problem, you can't remove a 20/20 overwhelm unless you have shadow in your list too. Trafarian assessor generating too much value etc.
It's important to understand that win rate's overall have never been lower, and they vary from 70 - 30 depending on matchup.
It's all just about picking what is working against what everyone else is playing.
A little while back I had mentioned that this region combo might be one of the strongest in the game right now.
I'm just going to share 3 different deck lists, that differ pretty wildly in construction but are still all hugely powerful.
The first up is the meta EZ Tf list - https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bruod4pla4s47cktkfn0
We've all had enough time to play against this list to know it's power potential, but it's also easy to play around if you know the pattern.
The second is a bruised by god's turbo deep - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9IdcUY2SeY&t=218s
This list is far harder to deal with, it really good at stalling out, and going deep super fast
The third is one I put together - focused around vi who I felt wasn't seeing enough play
How do you guys feel about this region combo right now
Just a small thought proposition. It seems like most of the decks being played are either Demacia, or Freijord oriented both regions win the game by spamming the board with big dudes. If you counter this with a death rattle oriented shadow deck with 3 ruinations you seem to basically auto win 90 percent of the time. What do you guys think?
It would only be a 9/6 leveled which played on curve on 4 as you stated is literally impossible, and if youre playing it off curve the mana discount is useless so which one is it? So no I won't humor your 2 percent of games scenario.
Playing a 4 mana dead on attack heckarim doesn't seem amazing. It also would only happen in a very small number of hand states probably 1/20 statistically. That still doesn't make it an aggro deck.
Typically when I refer to midrange in Legends that is talking about the mana curve of a deck. So for example the old burn aggro or elusives didn't run creatures over 4 mana. Heckarim is six mana, so he is not an aggro card. This isn't mtg everything is creature or damage based to one extent or another it's just a question of how you get there. So yes every deck needs early drops, which is more in line with how hearthstone is played, unless you're playing another slow list and then open passing the first two rounds is fine.
The developers said that they didn't want true aggro in the game, and thats very much what we have right now. While you can run elements of elusive, elements of aggro, or elements of burn you still need to have a solid midrange champ plan to go with it. I don't hate that, you can basically play what you want right now.
Grenadier feels fine, being a 3/2 with upside is arguably a buff, gets to swing in and then latter deals 1 damage is a good aggressive card. However crimson disciple being a 2/3 with sometimes upside of doing 1 damage feels infinitely worse. Its possible you only run it in vlad decks now.
Yeah I know what you're saying if you dont like the darrowing solution against Yassao. You can try burn, indirect damage, plus their lack of healing should make for a hard counter. In my other post I include an aggro swain/ezreal list that should just rock them.
Here we are, I've nearly completed my free to play collection, and can provide a deck for literally every champion in the game except for Fiz who is just kind of irritating lol.
I thought I would try a new series where we talk about the top decks being played and their relative weaknesses.
The variance featured in any card game means that it's possible to que into certain decks over and over even if they aren't statistically played the highest.
So we're going to tackle all of the usual suspects ranging from Tier 1 - Tier 2 based on popular archetypes.
1. Bilegewater Bannerman
A very straightforward list that uses Lucian and mf, in combination with going wide with lots of little dudes and buffing with barriers, and stats
The best counter to this list in on curve removal, deal with threats as they are played which will deny their aggro and snowball potential
Keep in mind rangers resolve is always an option for them and will be played in response to aoe
As for brews, any region will work as long as it's slanted towards control, with pinging effects available to shadow, P and Z, Bilge being the best
2. Ezreal TF
This is the ultimate yoink, control, endgame burn monster, that only has three overt weakness.
The first is just to play so many big dudes that 7 pings off a riptide rex isn't a big deal, deep can do this or freijord
The second is play a bunch of shadow chump that only gains value when they die like in they who endure
The third is play fast and hard with aggro
So there is no perfect brew approach just experiment with these three solutions to see what works best
3. Ash Sej
Thought to be the best midrange list, and it probably is.
It runs a ton of 5 attack creatures, and than draws off trifarian assessor
It frostbites you during combat
And it even has 1 board clear
There is only 1 weakness here and that is haaaaaard control
I'm talking, ruination, vengence, thermo beam, anything that kills unconditionally
4. Deep
Deep plays big dudes, and mills you, and it's annoying but it's also balanced
Damage done that ignores board state is your friend here
Experiment with elusives, burn options, and Ezreal to find what works best
Beyond that will of ionia is still a card and concussive palm so that region is a valid option here
As for trying to out control them that is a very bad option, go with aggro instead.
5. They who endure
Plays a bunch of dudes that threaten just enough damage to possible kills you, and then plays a 20/20 overwhelm
Another list that is designed to beat control, and aggro by draining their resources.
Here I would suggest a solid value midrange brew, play stuff that isn't threatened by their little dudes, but also will win you the game before their trump card gets too big to deal with.
Ash Sej is a solid option, tempo Sej, bannerman variants, discard because they don't have removal for jinx.
6. Burn variants
Burn will always be a thing in legends in some shape or form, because non combat damage is very good against some lists
Therefore the best counter will always be healing, usually whatever you're playing is fine but incorporate 6 - 10 points of healing for a big uptick in wins.
7. Elusives
Always tricky to play against, because winning games quickly go to losing games
Fast speed removal is your best friend here, with single combat being the a real headache the same is true of challenger
You're taking an un-interactive board and forcing interactivity, so Demacia is a solid counter
consider lux, or bannerman
8. Tempo Sej
Plays a bunch of dudes along with yoink and riptide rex
Used to be the strongest deck in the game, and is still very good.
Deep is the best yoink counter
you give them useless cards, think of high synergy brews
9. Darrowing
Nox allegience aggro, with Darius and harrowing as their endgame plan
This list can present a brewing challenge, because you are on two clocks.
The first is you die to aggro because you didn't brew in enough removal
The second is you die to harrowing
Ezreal lists are a great option here because you will be able to deal with the aggro, and burn them down when they play harrowing.
10. Karma/ Yassao
Ionia is very good at disruption, and very bad at hard removal
If you run a list that is good at board development you will win
Darrowing is a great option here, you present an aggressive board state, and even if it gets controlled out
You have harrowing and they have no healing
You'll win eventually one way or another
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There you go guys, hope you found this guide helpful, and keep brewing towards those easy and not so easy wins.
Tier list is here for 1.6
Ash Sej is only one of the lists at the top which is very beatable with any control brew
Second we have mf bannerman
Third is TF Ezreal like you're running.
https://www.swimstrim.com/runeterra/decks-and-meta
We also see bilge possible being the solution for old elusive decks, and old burn decks that were nerfed.
And we have an additional two Ezreal brews in tier 2.
Whenever I see something like that, I know there in need of a minor tweak.
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What it sounds like here is that you're struggling against slow decks like shadow and freijord, and cards like riptide rex as a 3 of will help, and so will yoink as much as I hate to say it, because you can steal their glimpse and use it to counter their own removal, although it's a liability against deep so up to you.
Yep, that's what I had for patch 1.5 as well, look back at my post on that.
But I will sum up, Noxious had the best 2 drops, Ionia had elusives, Frej had the best champs.
These things were all gutted in patch 1.6 or tweaked at the very least, which was for the best
Now we see Ezreal in everything, and a whole lot of Bilge. Demacia is also a whole lot better
Never before have we seen such a level of region balance in Legends of Runterra, which necessitates a new ranking system for my region tier list series, we will now be using a simple tier 1 to 3 ranking. Once again ranking are based on two things, the first being the number of OP decks being played competitively, and number 2 is the variety of lists that can be played semi competitively.
Tier 1 - P and Z, Bilgewater
Bilgewater allegience is proving to be the control deck of choice now that healing isn't as useful with the absence of aggro.
There are a number of pinging effects that can be buffed with kegs, and riptide rex is a board clear on a body
Yoink is still great on merchant and grifter offering insane card advantage
As for P and Z, Ezreal is an easy wincon for control decks, and Jinx has been buffed through her followers to be an aggro alternative
Vi and Heimer are still fine, even if they don't have a home at the moment.
Tier 2 - Noxious, Demacia, Freijord, Ionia, Shadow
The big changes here is that the Noxious nerfs have had the region rely more on it's midrange identity, which is very healthy
Freijord champs have been tweaked so they aren't the best in the game anymore
Demacia has room to be the best aggro region again, with Lux being there for control decks
Ionia is just doing it's thing, Zed is fine, Karma is fine and they serve their aggro and control lists effectively
Shadow is still doing it's thing in Deep and They who Endure
Tier 3 - Nothing
If we see a few tweaks to bilgewater allegience and Ezreal and riptide rex - I honestly believe that the game will be essentially balanced
At least till the new set releases
Take it easy everyone
Karma used to be overpowered at 5 mana, at 6 she's just okay, especially with the meditation nerf. The issue is that she's only good with very specific champion support, doubling ezreal procs for example, she can also double heimer turret generation.