Nah I'm fine with it as a two of. 

We can tutor out Darius, we can harrowing out Darius, we can play Darius, and all it needs is 2 mana bank.

This is totally fine with me, I play test my lists.

If you want 3 harrowing 1 apprehend go for it, but then you hit allegiance less often so this is fine.

There was a ton of hype around this little card around expansion launch and I haven't seen a single player experiment with it.

I think this a result of nerf mentality that Noxious allegiance lists got hit and it was just baby out with the bath water.

Well I'm here to tell you that Darius is good, and that there is a deck out there for this great card.

Give it a shot and let me know what you guys think.

Braum is just a way to delay the game in a list like this, it's not like you're running Vlad and take heart where Braum is a win con.

New counter, undead Anivia vs Auerelion Sol

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bt37ehhh40qclfo1bdb0

https://outof.cards/legends-of-runeterra/decks/1153-braum-anivia

Now that the expansion has been out for a couple days players have gotten over their initial impressions of the set and we can talk about honest to god counters to Targon as a region.

I wanted to lay out a few of the findings I have found personally.

1. Lulu and Taric aren't very good against decks with high levels of interactivity.

- The essential weakness of support as a playstyle is that it requires that you develop into your board.

- For example you play this into a 1 drop and you get hit by make it rain, vile feast, or static shock

2. Slow Rampy Targon lists and card advantage lists get beat out by nab and Ionia

- Let's say you're playing dragons, Ionia isn't going to care because they can stun and recall your whole board, and Bilgewater will steal your stuff

3. Day and Night Decks aren't very good...without support that is

- Let's take day man as an example Leona needs dayman and if they can't get one to stick they can't go off.

- But what if instead we had a backup plan in case dayman dies, what if we jammed a wtf lethianthan with Swain

- Or we ran Frejord just to ensure day man had elixir of iron

4. The point is that Targon is a support region in the sense that it needs to compliment the more straight forward power present in other colors.

- The days of just jamming hush into an existing list and pretending it's better are over

- consider grabbing faster celestial plays, jamming huge dude's isn't going to cut it anymore

- Remember that everything has a counter figure out what you need to be playing around.

That's it guys let me know what counters you guys have found for Targon

Yeah, my testing with it has shown that it's pretty strong, so it's no surprise that it slots into the old Ezreal Karma lists that were popular before the expansion. I'll give this list a shot as well.

Edit - It's fine gets you lot's of raw card advantage so you can eventually go off with your double pew pew's. It's not a deck I particularly enjoy playing but it's really good at those long grindy games.

Edit 2 - It's bad against anything that isn't targon, like TF Swain absolutely destroys it with it's higher tempo

I think he's referring to this list that's going to be pretty popular going forward. https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bt37ehhh40qclfo1bdb0

While you fine folks might not care about meta shifts, the vast majority of players are just gonna see what streamers are playing and click copy deckcode and paste that bad boy right in, and cue into games.

To answer yes it's normal for there to be certain decks with higher play rates than others.

Ash Sej used to be absolutely dominate, it wasn't usual to hit 6 games in a row.

I definitely agree on the point that he has no idea how to play against decks he hasn't accounted for.

That is the inherant problem with deck trackers, probability based plays, and opposing deck knowledge.

It is only sucessful within the microcosm that is the high level metagame.

As someone who only pilots his own brews in every cardgame he plays, I can attest to the power of "jank"

I would be careful turning to mobalytics as a more reliable source however, it tends to favor lists that are easy to play.

Swim's pretty decent from back in the Gwent days. 

He's got some blind spots when it comes to understanding how to play against low tier cards because they basically don't exist to him, but if he knows the list that you're playing, he can flat out call probabilities of cards in hand.

So if there's anyone I would trust to make early guesses about the meta it's probably him.

There are other good players too like mogwai, control, and hawktie, but they aren't really the predictive types.

It generally takes a very particular type of personality to look at a card pool and be like this, this, and this is going to be played.

I myself have made some good calls in the past and I would say for a butt pull day 2 list it's fine. By next week it will be pretty solid.

By week 4 the meta will be just about set, with a few surprises along the way. 

Just a little meta update, we are seeing 5 Targon decks enter into Swims Tier list, and it's literally been 2 days. As people find new tech and ideas I expect that number to go up to 6 or 7 possible.

The region is just too efficient not to play as of right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5rXQpY_hZI

Let me know what you guys think.

With these types of posts I like to phrase things as a question, without pretending to have all the answers.

Discover was largely considered to be an overpowered r and g heavy style of card design in Hearthstones history.

We are seeing Legends fall into a similar category, where for the cost of playing an understated 3 drop you get an overstated whatever you want.

This means amazing removal, top tier creatures, and even niche answers like stuns and silences. 

Then you can conceivable invoke as many times as you want after that.

Grinding the opponent down with card advantage and superior plays.

So far we are seeing Targon outperform in every list.

How does deep for instance beat out dragon boy

You can even cheat this out early with ramp or Thresh.

It's like an invincible Karma on steroids.

Let me know how you guys have been finding the invoke mechanic overall.

Take care

Been playing around with it in my old lists

Day One, I've opened Lulu and Diana, and 3 singular wills.

Does anyone know what I'm supposed to run this in?

It's so expensive...

I think another silence card is great, and very important to punish buff stacking strategies such as Fizz elusives.

Then spellshield offers you a way to protect your units from spells and are better buff targets overall but don't get to be elusive.

Are either of these things game breaking yet, no idea, nobody is going to have all the cards yet even if they are paying for 3 legendaries a week out of wallet.

So I would probably wait a solid month before saying op op.

The reality is that right now in Legends there is not a single list that is top tier that doesn't curve out.

Ash Sejunai runs hawk, brittle steel, archer, elixir, glory seeker.

Ezreal runs butcher, urchin, pool shark, merchant.

Endure runs an absolute crap ton of cheap early drops.

So unless this expansion totally flips how Legends of Runterra is played, Trundel will need to exist in a list with a decent number of 1, 2, 3 mana plays.

Like the largest number of 8 drops a list would ever be able to support is like 5 tops.

So instead it's better to tutor for the 8 drops already in your deck, entreat would fetch tyndamere

and extra Trundels probably turns into an 8 mana spell too

Often times in card games we are drawn to synergies like a moth to the flame. 

We think of the list that a  card wants to belong in and not where the card wants to be played.

This applies double to trundle.

Our instinct in to jam him into a ramp list with big cards, but why are we doing that.

This doesn't help him level.

Trundle levels himself, he isn't a build around.

He starts at a 4/6 regenerate that's a hard stat line to deal with,

Back him up with fury of the north and elixir of iron and he ain't dying

Then just play your free pillar on 8 after you have kept him alive for 3 turns.

Or they kill him and you play another and get another free pillar.

Boom now he's a 5/7 with regenerate and overwhelm, and that's all he has to be.

If you want synergy add tyndamere as a 3 of and that's it.

Then run just run good cards, starlit seer, omen hawk, and curve out normally.

Easy wins.

I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I feel like a lot of the cards being introduced seem a little under the power level required to be playable. I think troll dude is probably bad because ramp is unplayable right now, support synergy is interesting but again no good support cards other then chef, and nightfall is really going to need bilgewater for warning shot which is a little disappointing. 

Have you ever played against that new fizz elusive deck? Main decks like 9 burst speed buffs, now add gems and support on top of that and it should be pretty easy.

Seems good with starlit seer and the 3 copies of elixer of iron and fury of the north those decks already want to be running.

So I've personally been feeling a little burned out on LOR

This being the result of several factors.

1. A fairly established meta game, which I will include here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqHMDLe5Ldk

2. Running into a lot of made hand scenarios for every single deck - aka opponent card draw simulator

3. Less people willing to run synergistic low tier and exciting lists

4. Having all the cards

5. A distinct impression that others aren't enjoying the game anymore - aka speed chess

6. Slow roll or value plays being generally phased out for pure tempo

So if you guys have any ideas on how to keep things fresh until the expansion I'd love to hear it