Thanks for the feedback, I've currently made the following changes:
Previously made (accidentally posted an old decklist)
- 2 x Grimestreet Enforcer
+ 2 x Arena Fanatic
New Changes
- 1 x Fight Promoter - 1 x Spiritsinger Umbra - 2 x Bronze Herald
+ 2 x Magic Carpet + 2 x Ravencaller
In response to points raised:
Mountain Giant: While this deck is more than capable of getting a giant out on turn 4, the after-effects of Conjurer's Calling means most decks can deal with it. Also, it neither buffs cards in hand, or adds cards to hand, so weakens the deck strategy.
Spiritsinger Umbra: Yeah, I pulled this, she was only there to aid Sally, and get more taunts from the Goblin. In the end, she wasn't good enough and got cut.
Fight Promoter: I've dropped to a one of for now. I've noticed an occasional draw issue since though, so I may drop Sally and put a second back in.
Barista Lynchen: Against Control decks, the best chance of winning is taking an opening, and hitting with a massive Leeroy. Barista can aid in this, and you can get away with a turn 10 Glowstone + Barista against most control decks.
Subdue: Every spell weakens the strategy of the deck, so has to be essential. With the magic carpet addition, big threats can be dealt with by Brazen Zealot + Carpet with a small board flood.
Magic Carpet: I severely underestimated this card. It works so well with this deck. Good shout, thank you.
Infested Goblin: Originally I ran Drygulch too, but between the weak original body, and the tokens needing buffs to make them remotely useful, Aggro destroyed me. Goblin gives you three taunts to stabilise against Aggro, and can also protect stuff like Zealots, which can run away with things if not dealt with.
General Lifesteal minions: I have considered Chillblade Champion, but I doubt I'd removed Blessed Champion, just because that Leeroy/Champion combo has proved such an effective finisher, regularly finishing off from 20+. While Leeroy + Chillblade can do the same, it means drawing both, and buffing them, rather than just pulling Leeroy. I'll keep it in mind though.
Loot Hoarder: If I hadn't added Carpets, I may have made this change. However, with Carpets, this becomes a 2/2 draw 1 rush, which is nice. Loot Hoarder would lose out on the rush.
Fight Promoter: She does indeed trigger off herself. I was using acolytes in an early variant of this, but between generally having a large hand, it become a liability for burning cards. I'd rather be able to control draws as much as possible.
Righteous Protector: Again, a possibility, but Zealot becomes that much better with the addition of Carpets, and can cause panicked use of removal if played on turn one against non-ping classes.
Sunkeeper Tarim: Not really thought of him. I'll keep it in mind for future changes.
Dragon Speaker: Heralds are removed, so this becomes a non-issue.
I've been playing around with a handbuff Paladin deck in wild, using some of the token generators from the latest set to maximise value from the handbuff package previously available. So far I'm at rank 7, and climbing (if somewhat slowly) but most importantly, I'm having a ton of fun with it. From the pause of confusion when you play one of the many cards no other deck on the ladder plays, to the suprise of dropping a buffed Sergeant Sally after a Spiritsinger Umbra, this deck has produced fun gameplay, while not being completely awful.
I figured I'd post it here to get some feedback and opinions, as well as letting anyone interested try it out as well.
Untapped Potential: Completion Requirement increased by 1 to 5 - Honestly, this is less about balance, and more about making the match up less damn boring. I'm not saying it's OP, but this change might force decks running it to look at a different strategy than just "don't do anything for 4 turns".
Other than SoU cards:
Conjurer's Calling - Cost changed to (5). - Is this a brutal nerf? Kind of, but I've been playing around with an Even mage in wild, and this is not a card you want to give it access to.
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - Hero Power is now Big Red Button - Press a button. - Keep everything, but blind the Hero Power, so you have no idea which one you get when you hit the button. Unlikely to be implemented because of new players, but thematic, and a nerf at the same time. This would necessitate the "deal 3 damage HP to be a random target, but I can live with that.
For the sake of Wild:
Eternal Servitude: - Changed to 0 Mana - Discover a minion that died this game. Spend mana equal to its cost and summon it. (Attempting to cast this when you can't afford any minions in the pool will fizzle, like Shadow Visions if you have no spells in your deck)
Not even salt, but I'm not creating a whole new topic for it. Since when is saying Well Played at the end of the game considered BM? I just had an opponent concede after activating a rat trap, with me not even close to winning. I generally close out games with a Well Played emote, occasionally refraining if it's a deck I really don't like (generally reserved for Big Priest). After the game, my opponent added me, kindly informing me I was a sheep, and I would never make legend, and I won through luck. I'm not entirely sure what luck he was referring too, as there was no RNG factor in him conceding that I recall.
So, a little late for the Day 1 impressions, but I've been playing about with a few deck ideas I've seen rarely, if at all, but here's what I've found
What I've been playing:
Standard:
Quest Paladin: If there's something that gets broken because of a quest, I'm expecting it to be because of this. The Quest is difficult to complete quickly, but once it is complete, it becomes very difficult for the opponent to do anything about it. If someone is able to streamline the completing of the quest, I wouldn't be shocked to see this everywhere. That said, if the completing can't be improved, then it won't be competitive.
OTK Hunter: Lots of fun, not very good. Still, bursting out 30+ damage in charge minions is always fun. I've been using discounted King Krush (by Scarlet Webweaver), copied by Ramkahen Wildtamer, and buffed by Emerissif needed.
Quest Warrior/Weapon Warrior: A very pleasant surprise this one. Quest is easy enough to complete, and by having lots of weapons in the deck, it's easy to keep triggering the refresh. Armored Goon is a beast in the right deck.
Because of the nature of the card (summon minions as removal), there's so many combos that could be used here, I think this could be playable, and a massive help to new players due it's interactions with basic and classic cards.
After seeing this post, I thought I'd have a play around with her, and found she works quite well in a Tempo/Miracle style rogue build. It gives you another option if you're facing a class that lacks strong AoE's , especially since people don't expect Rogue to build a wide board. I can't imagine it would work as well in standard, but in Wild, with the coin generators, you can go from 0 to 7 minions on turn 7 with a little preparation. I wouldn't say it's an optimal strategy, but you can pick up wins just by making an unexpected move, especially when people don't value AoE's highly once they know you're not running an Aggro build with Rogue.
I imagine a Lyra/Dragon Soul priest deck could work in a similar way.
That would devalue new heroes. It wouldn't be a smart move by Blizzard, as a company. They love selling those 60 pack bundles every expansion.
I doubt it, people who want to collect the Hero skins would still buy them. Otherwise, why would the Masters bundle have sold? If the bundles featured lore specific heroes, they would still get snapped up. If these were locked behind a full Heroic completion of the run, it would drive sales for adventure, but it wouldn't stop people if they introduced, for example, Kael'thas as a new Mage hero in the next bundle.
I was writing a lengthy response, but in the end, the bottom line is: People care more for new skins if they have 1-2 other available skins for a certain class than if they have 10 other available skins. The skins get devalued at that point. Not sure I can explain it simpler than that.
I do follow what you're saying, but I disagree. While HS has diverged from WoW significantly, a decent portion of the player base seems to be in touch with WoW lore, and the relevant characters. Releasing a non-lore skin for each class, behind a minor paywall (cost of adventure) would silence some complaints about the cost of the adventure, but would not impact significantly on demand for favoured characters that have a strong grounding in Warcraft lore e.g Kael'thas, Vaashj, etc. It might mean they have to raise their game when it comes to designing the bundle skins (no more Mecha-Jaraxxus), but it wouldn't drive down sales overall imo.
The Thunder King was met with excitement, despite being the 4th Shaman hero, and I wouldn't expect it to be met with any less if it was the 5th. Likewise, Kael'thas would be met with excitement, even though Mage already has Jaina, Khadgar and Medivh. I don't imagine adding Rakanishu to that pool would reduce that any less.
That would devalue new heroes. It wouldn't be a smart move by Blizzard, as a company. They love selling those 60 pack bundles every expansion.
I doubt it, people who want to collect the Hero skins would still buy them. Otherwise, why would the Masters bundle have sold? If the bundles featured lore specific heroes, they would still get snapped up. If these were locked behind a full Heroic completion of the run, it would drive sales for adventure, but it wouldn't stop people if they introduced, for example, Kael'thas as a new Mage hero in the next bundle.
Thanks for the feedback, I've currently made the following changes:
Previously made (accidentally posted an old decklist)
- 2 x Grimestreet Enforcer
+ 2 x Arena Fanatic
New Changes
- 1 x Fight Promoter - 1 x Spiritsinger Umbra - 2 x Bronze Herald
+ 2 x Magic Carpet + 2 x Ravencaller
In response to points raised:
Mountain Giant: While this deck is more than capable of getting a giant out on turn 4, the after-effects of Conjurer's Calling means most decks can deal with it. Also, it neither buffs cards in hand, or adds cards to hand, so weakens the deck strategy.
Spiritsinger Umbra: Yeah, I pulled this, she was only there to aid Sally, and get more taunts from the Goblin. In the end, she wasn't good enough and got cut.
Fight Promoter: I've dropped to a one of for now. I've noticed an occasional draw issue since though, so I may drop Sally and put a second back in.
Barista Lynchen: Against Control decks, the best chance of winning is taking an opening, and hitting with a massive Leeroy. Barista can aid in this, and you can get away with a turn 10 Glowstone + Barista against most control decks.
Subdue: Every spell weakens the strategy of the deck, so has to be essential. With the magic carpet addition, big threats can be dealt with by Brazen Zealot + Carpet with a small board flood.
Magic Carpet: I severely underestimated this card. It works so well with this deck. Good shout, thank you.
Infested Goblin: Originally I ran Drygulch too, but between the weak original body, and the tokens needing buffs to make them remotely useful, Aggro destroyed me. Goblin gives you three taunts to stabilise against Aggro, and can also protect stuff like Zealots, which can run away with things if not dealt with.
General Lifesteal minions: I have considered Chillblade Champion, but I doubt I'd removed Blessed Champion, just because that Leeroy/Champion combo has proved such an effective finisher, regularly finishing off from 20+. While Leeroy + Chillblade can do the same, it means drawing both, and buffing them, rather than just pulling Leeroy. I'll keep it in mind though.
Loot Hoarder: If I hadn't added Carpets, I may have made this change. However, with Carpets, this becomes a 2/2 draw 1 rush, which is nice. Loot Hoarder would lose out on the rush.
Fight Promoter: She does indeed trigger off herself. I was using acolytes in an early variant of this, but between generally having a large hand, it become a liability for burning cards. I'd rather be able to control draws as much as possible.
Righteous Protector: Again, a possibility, but Zealot becomes that much better with the addition of Carpets, and can cause panicked use of removal if played on turn one against non-ping classes.
Sunkeeper Tarim: Not really thought of him. I'll keep it in mind for future changes.
Dragon Speaker: Heralds are removed, so this becomes a non-issue.
Hey all,
I've been playing around with a handbuff Paladin deck in wild, using some of the token generators from the latest set to maximise value from the handbuff package previously available. So far I'm at rank 7, and climbing (if somewhat slowly) but most importantly, I'm having a ton of fun with it. From the pause of confusion when you play one of the many cards no other deck on the ladder plays, to the suprise of dropping a buffed Sergeant Sally after a Spiritsinger Umbra, this deck has produced fun gameplay, while not being completely awful.
I figured I'd post it here to get some feedback and opinions, as well as letting anyone interested try it out as well.
So, immediate reactive nerfs to SoU cards:
Untapped Potential: Completion Requirement increased by 1 to 5 - Honestly, this is less about balance, and more about making the match up less damn boring. I'm not saying it's OP, but this change might force decks running it to look at a different strategy than just "don't do anything for 4 turns".
Other than SoU cards:
Conjurer's Calling - Cost changed to (5). - Is this a brutal nerf? Kind of, but I've been playing around with an Even mage in wild, and this is not a card you want to give it access to.
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius - Hero Power is now Big Red Button - Press a button. - Keep everything, but blind the Hero Power, so you have no idea which one you get when you hit the button. Unlikely to be implemented because of new players, but thematic, and a nerf at the same time. This would necessitate the "deal 3 damage HP to be a random target, but I can live with that.
For the sake of Wild:
Eternal Servitude: - Changed to 0 Mana - Discover a minion that died this game. Spend mana equal to its cost and summon it. (Attempting to cast this when you can't afford any minions in the pool will fizzle, like Shadow Visions if you have no spells in your deck)
Not even salt, but I'm not creating a whole new topic for it. Since when is saying Well Played at the end of the game considered BM? I just had an opponent concede after activating a rat trap, with me not even close to winning. I generally close out games with a Well Played emote, occasionally refraining if it's a deck I really don't like (generally reserved for Big Priest). After the game, my opponent added me, kindly informing me I was a sheep, and I would never make legend, and I won through luck. I'm not entirely sure what luck he was referring too, as there was no RNG factor in him conceding that I recall.
....are control players the salty ones?
So, a little late for the Day 1 impressions, but I've been playing about with a few deck ideas I've seen rarely, if at all, but here's what I've found
What I've been playing:
Standard:
Quest Paladin: If there's something that gets broken because of a quest, I'm expecting it to be because of this. The Quest is difficult to complete quickly, but once it is complete, it becomes very difficult for the opponent to do anything about it. If someone is able to streamline the completing of the quest, I wouldn't be shocked to see this everywhere. That said, if the completing can't be improved, then it won't be competitive.
OTK Hunter: Lots of fun, not very good. Still, bursting out 30+ damage in charge minions is always fun. I've been using discounted King Krush (by Scarlet Webweaver), copied by Ramkahen Wildtamer, and buffed by Emerissif needed.
Quest Warrior/Weapon Warrior: A very pleasant surprise this one. Quest is easy enough to complete, and by having lots of weapons in the deck, it's easy to keep triggering the refresh. Armored Goon is a beast in the right deck.
Wild:
Reno Even Mage: This shouldn't work. It just shouldn't. It's bizarre, fun, and somewhat competitive, although not broken enough to win at top ranks. The discounted HP brings things like Ice Walker, Spirit of the Dragonhawk and Fallen Hero better, while Echo of Medivh, Youthful Brewmaster and Baleful Bankergive you extra goes on Kazakus, Reno (both of them) and Zephrys the Great.
Because of the nature of the card (summon minions as removal), there's so many combos that could be used here, I think this could be playable, and a massive help to new players due it's interactions with basic and classic cards.
The combo's I can think of:
Raid Leader, Stormwind Champion and (Wild Only) Addled Grizzly all turn this into a Deal 8 damage removal.
Cult Master gives it Draw 4 cards.
Flesheating Ghoul gets +4 attack.
Knife Juggler gets 4 pings.
Floop's Glorious Gloop makes this a free spell.
Wild Only:
Crypt Lord gets +4 Health.
Knight of the Wild reduces it's cost by 4. (I assume Bees count as beasts? Right?)
/EDIT - Did not mean that to be Neutral. Oops!
Next Up:
1. Must be a Beast
2. Must cost less than 3 mana
After seeing this post, I thought I'd have a play around with her, and found she works quite well in a Tempo/Miracle style rogue build. It gives you another option if you're facing a class that lacks strong AoE's , especially since people don't expect Rogue to build a wide board. I can't imagine it would work as well in standard, but in Wild, with the coin generators, you can go from 0 to 7 minions on turn 7 with a little preparation. I wouldn't say it's an optimal strategy, but you can pick up wins just by making an unexpected move, especially when people don't value AoE's highly once they know you're not running an Aggro build with Rogue.
I imagine a Lyra/Dragon Soul priest deck could work in a similar way.
Next up:
1. Must be a minion
2. Must cost less than 4 mana.
Next up,
1. Must cost 6 mana or above
2. Must have a Battlecry
Next Art:
Rules:
1. Must be a minion with the Dragon Tribe tag
2. Must cost 8 or more mana.
I hope this is what you meant by "cripples"
Next up, make a Warrior minion.
Next: A Druid spell.
I do follow what you're saying, but I disagree. While HS has diverged from WoW significantly, a decent portion of the player base seems to be in touch with WoW lore, and the relevant characters. Releasing a non-lore skin for each class, behind a minor paywall (cost of adventure) would silence some complaints about the cost of the adventure, but would not impact significantly on demand for favoured characters that have a strong grounding in Warcraft lore e.g Kael'thas, Vaashj, etc. It might mean they have to raise their game when it comes to designing the bundle skins (no more Mecha-Jaraxxus), but it wouldn't drive down sales overall imo.
The Thunder King was met with excitement, despite being the 4th Shaman hero, and I wouldn't expect it to be met with any less if it was the 5th. Likewise, Kael'thas would be met with excitement, even though Mage already has Jaina, Khadgar and Medivh. I don't imagine adding Rakanishu to that pool would reduce that any less.
I doubt it, people who want to collect the Hero skins would still buy them. Otherwise, why would the Masters bundle have sold? If the bundles featured lore specific heroes, they would still get snapped up. If these were locked behind a full Heroic completion of the run, it would drive sales for adventure, but it wouldn't stop people if they introduced, for example, Kael'thas as a new Mage hero in the next bundle.