People also use him to fake a loss. You can play some serious mind games with opponents and get them to make a mistake, using emotes. People joke about the "emote meta," but there actually are some things you can do to win games with emotes.
The problem right now is not that aggro is too good. It's that LEE SIN is too good. If you play decks that counter aggro (control and midrange), you lose to Lee Sin. THAT is the problem. Aggro has been nerfed so hard so many times, it is not actually a problem in itself. (The sole exception here is Pirate Aggro, and only that because of Make It Rain and Jagged Butcher, which are way too good compared to other cards.) Aggro is only having success right now because Lee Sin is preying on everything that's good against aggro and pushing them out of the meta.
You don't get to say, "Aggro and burn are perfectly fine except for this one archetype that has been at the top of the charts since the game launched."
You're free to exaggerate if you like, but Pirate aggro has definitely not been at the top of the charts "since the game launched," even if you consider the launch to be the release of Rising Tides (which is fair, since that was the official launch, though the game existed for at least half a year before that). And before you ask, "No, I do not play Pirate aggro." -Me
Gangplank was almost completely ignored for at least a full month after Bilgewater launched, and probably more like 2 months. Miss Fortune was initially played almost exclusively with Bannerscouts during that same timeframe.
The current iteration of Pirate Aggro didn't hit the top of the charts until about 6-8 weeks ago.
Perhaps you're getting confused with TF/Swain when you're talking about "the archetype that has been at the top of the charts since the game launched"?
Shen emote would have a higher win rate, but some people like to open with him.
My takeway from this is that they have no idea how to fix underpowered archetypes, and no idea how to bring the most overpowered ones (aggro and burn) into check. So they faff about in the middle ground, hoping people will find that interesting in spite of everything else.
The only way to keep aggro/burn decks in check is to make one sided board clears available. I may be wrong, but most board clears in the game right now hit both sides. The only exception I'm aware of is ASol's Skies Descend spell.
Withering Wail only hits opposing units. Same with TF's Red Card and Make It Rain. And Riptide Rex as well, incidentally. And while Avalanche hits both sides, that is almost never a problem for decks that use it. So, let's be perfectly clear here - "most board clears hit both sides" ends up describing exactly these spells - Avalanche (already mentioned that the "both sides" almost never matters), The Ruination, and Singular Will (which no one uses). So that brings us down to exactly one card that causes equal problems with both sides of the board: The Ruination. Which brings us to an important point - if they print one-sided board wipes, those are useful to literally every deck ever, even aggro. There is a VERY good reason that one-sided board wipes are extremely rare in card games, and this is it.
As for aggro and burn, they are absolutely not overpowered - there are very hard counters to both of those (for aggro, it's Avalanche/withering wail/TF red card; for burn, it's basically any kind of healing). Midrange is also a problem for aggro as well, since their dudes are bigger and 2-for-1 the aggro player like crazy.
The problem right now is not that aggro is too good. It's that LEE SIN is too good. If you play decks that counter aggro (control and midrange), you lose to Lee Sin. THAT is the problem. Aggro has been nerfed so hard so many times, it is not actually a problem in itself. (The sole exception here is Pirate Aggro, and only that because of Make It Rain and Jagged Butcher, which are way too good compared to other cards.) Aggro is only having success right now because Lee Sin is preying on everything that's good against aggro and pushing them out of the meta.
It's incorrect to say that Star Spring wins games by itself. Yes, it can win games by combining it with a ton of damaging and healing effects, but it can be quite hilarious to see a Star Spring doing literally nothing because the units are not getting damaged.
So, it absolutely has to be in the right deck, or it does almost nothing, and certainly doesn't win the game.
I did this with a Poro Cannon/Vonn Yip deck. I put in Vi and Sejuani as 1 copy each. Then I went full poros all over them. And, of course, Vi and Sejuani are both totally fine (especially Vi when you're playing 1 drops like crazy).
But I guarantee not a single one of my opponents saw my champions and said to themselves, "Hm, I bet this is a poros deck with Vonn Yip."
If you didn't figure it out within the last month, you have to click the singleton button inside the new deck. It's on the same screen where you can change the cover art.
This landmark is pretty far from a meme. It doesn't even need frostbite to be good. It also supports big noxus overwhelm decks, and probably other things as well.
Such a tragedy ... adding a new card type to the game, then releasing nothing but memes of that type.
Landmarks could have made the game interesting, but instead they decided to make it "wacky." Like that "wacky" uncle you really only want to see about twice a year.
I'm almost certain that Star Spring is not a meme. It might take some work to figure out the optimal setup and region pairing, but I cannot see it failing to have a home. And The Howling Abyss would slot very nicely into the already-existing Warmother's deck as well - I did the math on that one in another thread, and it's actually got pretty good odds of not being bad (as long as your deck can "do nothing" on turn 7 and not die).
This card is almost certainly better than it looks. The weakness of a poro-based deck has always been that it has no beefy guys to hold down the board while the player works on buffing the little guys (except Mighty Poro, which is not that great at 3 cost). Side note: Poro Cannon is also a PnZ card.
Don't get so excited guys. This is incredibly ominous. It's actually bad when a card (and its archetype) is so overtuned. This is clearly much too strong, especially when combined with the landmark that just "wins the game."
I'm kind of excited to explode people's faces by just healing my dudes, but it's not actually a good omen for the health of the game.
"Win the game" is an overrated mechanic.
healing 22 hp is hard.
Let's see how hard it is when the board gets filled with 4 beefy guys, a Star Spring, and an Ember Maiden
Don't get so excited guys. This is incredibly ominous. It's actually bad when a card (and its archetype) is so overtuned. This is clearly much too strong, especially when combined with the landmark that just "wins the game."
I'm kind of excited to explode people's faces by just healing my dudes, but it's not actually a good omen for the health of the game.
As long as they keep the RNG on meme cards I’m fine. I feel like Howling Abyss is honestly far less of a problem than Celestials or Bilgewater.
*Randomly gets Level 2 Sejuani* - who's a meme now?
Sejuani? that's what are you worried about? I'll take a level 2 Sejuani over a level 2 Maokai any day.
Level 2 Maokai is already leveled. He doesn't mill you. He's a 2/5 token generator with regen, and that's it. Similarly, Nautilus is already a 13/13 tough fearsome without being deep.
Just a quick note - Level 2 Yasuo is a 5/5 Quick Attack for 4 cost. I'm pretty sure that's good, even with zero synergy in the deck. Similar for Jinx as well - 5/4 Quick Attack (though a deck with this Landmark in it probably never empties its hand - so that part probably never comes into play). We do have to always keep in mind, however, the raw stats and keywords of level 2 champions (like 10/6 overwhelm for 6 cost - Darius; or 13/13 tough, fearsome for 7 cost - Nautilus). Even Braum, whom I rated as bad, still has challenger and 6 health with regeneration.
People also use him to fake a loss. You can play some serious mind games with opponents and get them to make a mistake, using emotes. People joke about the "emote meta," but there actually are some things you can do to win games with emotes.
You're free to exaggerate if you like, but Pirate aggro has definitely not been at the top of the charts "since the game launched," even if you consider the launch to be the release of Rising Tides (which is fair, since that was the official launch, though the game existed for at least half a year before that). And before you ask, "No, I do not play Pirate aggro." -Me
Gangplank was almost completely ignored for at least a full month after Bilgewater launched, and probably more like 2 months. Miss Fortune was initially played almost exclusively with Bannerscouts during that same timeframe.
The current iteration of Pirate Aggro didn't hit the top of the charts until about 6-8 weeks ago.
Perhaps you're getting confused with TF/Swain when you're talking about "the archetype that has been at the top of the charts since the game launched"?
Withering Wail only hits opposing units. Same with TF's Red Card and Make It Rain. And Riptide Rex as well, incidentally. And while Avalanche hits both sides, that is almost never a problem for decks that use it. So, let's be perfectly clear here - "most board clears hit both sides" ends up describing exactly these spells - Avalanche (already mentioned that the "both sides" almost never matters), The Ruination, and Singular Will (which no one uses). So that brings us down to exactly one card that causes equal problems with both sides of the board: The Ruination. Which brings us to an important point - if they print one-sided board wipes, those are useful to literally every deck ever, even aggro. There is a VERY good reason that one-sided board wipes are extremely rare in card games, and this is it.
As for aggro and burn, they are absolutely not overpowered - there are very hard counters to both of those (for aggro, it's Avalanche/withering wail/TF red card; for burn, it's basically any kind of healing). Midrange is also a problem for aggro as well, since their dudes are bigger and 2-for-1 the aggro player like crazy.
The problem right now is not that aggro is too good. It's that LEE SIN is too good. If you play decks that counter aggro (control and midrange), you lose to Lee Sin. THAT is the problem. Aggro has been nerfed so hard so many times, it is not actually a problem in itself. (The sole exception here is Pirate Aggro, and only that because of Make It Rain and Jagged Butcher, which are way too good compared to other cards.) Aggro is only having success right now because Lee Sin is preying on everything that's good against aggro and pushing them out of the meta.
It's incorrect to say that Star Spring wins games by itself. Yes, it can win games by combining it with a ton of damaging and healing effects, but it can be quite hilarious to see a Star Spring doing literally nothing because the units are not getting damaged.
So, it absolutely has to be in the right deck, or it does almost nothing, and certainly doesn't win the game.
Great job on this little project you have going. You are proving the power of random level 2 champions pretty effectively.
You're also playing The Howling Abyss completely correctly - it belongs in a heavy control shell for sure.
I did this with a Poro Cannon/Vonn Yip deck. I put in Vi and Sejuani as 1 copy each. Then I went full poros all over them. And, of course, Vi and Sejuani are both totally fine (especially Vi when you're playing 1 drops like crazy).
But I guarantee not a single one of my opponents saw my champions and said to themselves, "Hm, I bet this is a poros deck with Vonn Yip."
If you didn't figure it out within the last month, you have to click the singleton button inside the new deck. It's on the same screen where you can change the cover art.
I've done some testing and changes over about 15 games or so. I included some of your ideas. Troll Chant especially was a great call.
Honestly, the biggest missing piece of this deck is Citrus Courier, who is probably the single best source of healing in all of Bilgewater.
This landmark is pretty far from a meme. It doesn't even need frostbite to be good. It also supports big noxus overwhelm decks, and probably other things as well.
Well, this landmark sure ain't no meme. Dang, this one makes the others look so bad.
I'm almost certain that Star Spring is not a meme. It might take some work to figure out the optimal setup and region pairing, but I cannot see it failing to have a home. And The Howling Abyss would slot very nicely into the already-existing Warmother's deck as well - I did the math on that one in another thread, and it's actually got pretty good odds of not being bad (as long as your deck can "do nothing" on turn 7 and not die).
This card is almost certainly better than it looks. The weakness of a poro-based deck has always been that it has no beefy guys to hold down the board while the player works on buffing the little guys (except Mighty Poro, which is not that great at 3 cost). Side note: Poro Cannon is also a PnZ card.
That Patched Porobot might be exactly the card I need to make my janky Daring Poro deck actually viable.
Let's see how hard it is when the board gets filled with 4 beefy guys, a Star Spring, and an Ember Maiden
Don't get so excited guys. This is incredibly ominous. It's actually bad when a card (and its archetype) is so overtuned. This is clearly much too strong, especially when combined with the landmark that just "wins the game."
I'm kind of excited to explode people's faces by just healing my dudes, but it's not actually a good omen for the health of the game.
I want to see changes to Make it Rain, Warning Shot, and Jagged Butcher for starters.
Level 2 Maokai is already leveled. He doesn't mill you. He's a 2/5 token generator with regen, and that's it. Similarly, Nautilus is already a 13/13 tough fearsome without being deep.
Think about using it with Regen cards ... Freljord regeneration plus Targon this thing and Star Shepherd.
@Thuzad
Just a quick note - Level 2 Yasuo is a 5/5 Quick Attack for 4 cost. I'm pretty sure that's good, even with zero synergy in the deck. Similar for Jinx as well - 5/4 Quick Attack (though a deck with this Landmark in it probably never empties its hand - so that part probably never comes into play). We do have to always keep in mind, however, the raw stats and keywords of level 2 champions (like 10/6 overwhelm for 6 cost - Darius; or 13/13 tough, fearsome for 7 cost - Nautilus). Even Braum, whom I rated as bad, still has challenger and 6 health with regeneration.