Showerthought: What about making Raise Dead deal 5 damage to your hero? 3 damage is a joke for Priest and Warlock has the Soul Fragment mechanic as well as Man'ari Mosher.
IF talkign abotu wil soul fragments or manari mosher arent used liek at all.
Warlocks healign is reno , occasiaon healbot or lfiestela from spellstone/ancklebiter,armor of some kazzakus pots and izperhys. Not any fragments or manari.
Only problem with that is that we already have two versions of Lilian Voss, one from Frozen throne and a living version from Scholomance. I don't think they're going to make a third to put in classic, assuming they're even keeping classic.
While true, we still have mltiple otehr versions of different characters as cards more then lilians 2. and they could give her a title /bit different look to more match current time Lilian in WoW who is kinda the Forsaken Ruler atm.
Could be something lik LIlian the Forsaken. Or could use her ghost/soul from her fight in revamped scholomance.
IF theyre indeed gona rotate bbsic/clasisc in basicly entierly i hope get some compensation
By rotating you would get the same compensation as for rotating the old sets - nothing.
Well then that goes against evrythign theyve promised and said about classic set.
Hall of fame gave/gives dust refunds BECAUSE the classic and basic set are/where susposed to be eternaly standard By blzizards Own words.
The classic +basic set always has gotten a different treatment then regular sets. So i DONT think tis unreasonabe to expect/want ANYTHING at all if they rotate it all.
IF theyre indeed gona rotate bbsic/clasisc in basicly entierly i hope get some compensation and actullt bother to unnerf most if not all cards (or partial like did with gigglign in last unnerfs) since wild can handle the higher power, would make people be able with old combo's/decks/cards again and it just makes no sense to keep nerfs that where doen cause hteyd be in standard forever, when they arent in standard at all anymore.
ANd with the giving new copies liek doom in tomb if is indeed rotating could if needed have a weakedn/nerfed version be the one in standard (like say rockbiter at 2 when are going for more windfury stuff for shaman in standard that year but dont want it to be eays to burst but stillhave ti aviable) and keep the unnerfed.
And compenstation if tis dust,packs or anything i dont care to much(id prefer just they refund us like Hof but most likly wont) And they have to as they had said and promsied when wild and standard where seperated theyd forever be in standard which is why Hof gave dust refunds.
And while rotating set would be nice I HEAVLY doubt it will be and even more beign actulyl old cards being back from wild i think more likly is just they roatet all in wild and make new basic/classic thats genrerly far weaker and way less usable then current(which already has alot of bad/terrible stuff in it absic+classic)
of course but it just seemed to basic to replace a van cleef by another. why not change gears?
Basic sure, but it is the most obvious/fitting as replacing Edwin. and Vanessa is quite different from he dad despite sharing name.
She is far more about toxins and deception(like faking her own death) then more raw fighting sskill/strength of Edwin.
But to change gears id like Lilian Voss and would prefer Vanessa as portait(even got a van cleef cardback they could bring back if she becomes portait)
I'm probably the only person that's sad about Edwin leaving standard. An early giant Edwin is no fun for the opponent, and I agree that a class probably shouldn't have a card that can be played in virtually any Rogue deck until the end of time. But say what you want, I like Edwin both as a character and as a card, so I will about losing him.
That said, this does allow Blizzard to be a bit freer when creating combo-related cards. Cards like Foxy Fraud and others that may not have made it into Hearthstone were probably held back due to Edwin.
As for him "rotating", but not getting hall-of-famed... I don't understand, and I suppose we won't until we have more information about it. I can imagine a few scenarios as to what this may mean:
They're just renaming the hall of fame, and maybe changing some of the rules regarding it (allowing expansion cards to be HoF'd, bringing HoF cards back?).
There will be a rotating classic set. I fail to see how this makes the game easier for players with a limited collection since the point of an evergreen set was to be helpful to players with a limited collection.
There will be a complete abolishment of the evergreen set. This seems likely considering Blizzard's new mid-set thing, and it solves a lot of problems regarding the classic set. It also enables quite a bit of freedom amongst class identities. However, we will lose lots of staple cards, such as Shield Block, Wild Growth, Swipe, Shadow Word: Death, Shadow Word: Pain, Acidic Swamp Ooze, Tracking, Kill Command, Animal Companion (never Huffer again), the list goes it. On the plus side, cards like Blackjack Stunner hint towards Blizzard printing variants of a card that already exists.
Adding onto a potential abolishing of the evergreen set, Blizzard may start reprinting cards like MtG. Perhaps reprinting Sap and Blessing of Kings for an expansion that has a lot of buffs. Or reprinting Voidwalker if they want to push Zoolock for an expansion. Or reprinting cards midway through an expansion, perhaps during a balance patch, in order to address certain class weaknesses.
I just hope cards mentioned will actuyl eb roatted and not get the powerword shield treatment and be made itno really weak cards so they can then keep priniting a new one evry 2years or evry yea
I'm cautiously optimistic about this announcement. The end of the current HoF and changes aimed at "easing into playing with a limited collection" indeed suggest something like a rework of Basic/Classic sets into a rotating core set that would be available to everyone. I think that's great as it gives another way to completely shake up the meta (ideally, this would not be done at the same time as the new Hearthstone year starts, but somewhere in the middle of it) and to create new archetypes that are not based on the same building blocks that we have seen for years.
But most importantly. they can now put actually strong cards into the Core set without the fear that they will dominate forever. Or cards that synergize with the current expansions (for example, some deathrattle support for hunter). Because right now, the power level of the Basic and Classic sets is -bar a few exceptions which we have all seen a million times - laughably bad. And there is pretty much no other way, or it would forever dominate all archetypes (hence the nerfs/HoF of many evergreen cards).
Of course, a lot depends on the execution. Given recent experiences, some skepticism is justified as well - but overall, I'm happy to hear this.
Classic rework we know, but rotating core se ti still heavly doubt. I think its more likyl just get abunch of weak replacements an that evryone egts and that serves as new core set
More likly just new basic/classic set thas really really weak and this is done to screw playes out of dust cause thye dont wanna refuned like all of classic.
Well, its a first ; Edwin failed to dodge that one! And for the last 6 years, regarding his power level, team 5 been like :
The card always was fine, its they print to much generaiton so can end up with more cards then started and many posisble answers have eben nerfed,hof'd or rottaed with no replacements.
Natalie Seline isn't a bad card. It was in every Highlander Priest while that was still viable a few months ago. We're just in a bad meta for it right now. If Control Warrior or Control Warlock is the best deck again (and Priest is competitive), Natalie will see play.
That's what a Classic legendary should be. A meta call.
Yeah Meta card not total garbage tier. 8mana is not good at all. for spednong on 1 removal
In some metas yes, but I don't think he's a fundamentally weak card. With a bit of miracle rogue support he can pull his weight. Plus, I wouldn't be against a small stat buff to a 4/2 or 3/3 if need be. If the stats are refined he can feel like a card that would be considered in lots of archetypes, without being an auto-include.
Perhaps more than any other cards, Classic class legendaries should excite players about class mechanics. Edwin's design was good in this regard as he had a serious reward for stringing several cards together, but some are much less successful. E.g. I would say Natalie Seline is a very bad design for Classic legendary because it doesn't get anyone interested in priest. She's not a particularly bad card (it hasn't helped that aggro has dominated all year), she just doesn't invite you to do any priestly things. Xaril's strength, on the other hand, is that he is an open invitation to try out almost all the class has to offer, which makes him a great ambassador for the class.
Perhaps I'll make a thread about my thoughts on this over the weekend. I'd be interested to hear everyone else's views on what makes a good Classic legendary.
Satine is bad thougj,spending almost if nto entire turn in lategame to remove 1minion is hoenstly not good. Selien would be inetresting at like 6 mana 6/1 with same effect much better control and still allows for tempo aswell which i feel she is kinda mleant to be. And wpuld come down on tme still. And blizz sees her as doing priesty things,cause shadow themed (barly really) and is removal so priest identity.
With stat boost xaril is good but 3/2 stats on 4 drop then gott spend 2more mana is just to weak to few stat for his cost and unlike like sonya (who was/is niche still ) isnt cheap enough that can combi it with other stuff in same turn cause he +potions cost 6mana nad thats msot of turn gone already. If was 3 2/2 could do questin on 3, then xaril +potion on 4 and be far more ok satt wise and on curve play.
They could and they probably will, but when talking about making an evergreen card there is merit to using what we know works. As the saying goes: there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
As much as I like the card, Xaril's power level is too low to compete in Wild, so he might as well not exist at the moment. Yes, you could argue for buffing him - and he'd be a good target for that - but I still believe he'd be a perfect fit for Classic as he is.
Of course, this whole argument only holds if Blizz wants a card like Xaril in Classic. If they want Edwin's replacement to go in a different direction then it is like comparing apples with oranges, so there's little point in dwelling too much on the idea.
And he'd be super weak in standard aswell, it be classic Yeah but classic shouldnt gabrage tier either. It should still be something decentt/Good enough and xairl wouldnt make it in standard at all either
From what I've been able to decipher from that puddle of letters you placed next to each other, what you want is endless, unbridled power creep. If you want to see an example of how that winds up going, read up on what happened to Magic the Gathering during the Urza's Saga. Long story short, it nearly killed the game cause all the heavily invested players started leaving in droves. Games ended so fast that Naga Warlock would seem glacial in comparison. The tournament scene devolved into nothing but non-games because whoever drew the better hand won, often as soon as turn 1.
You cannot keep introducing new and new stuff and providing "more options" as you say, if all the old stuff, all the old design mistakes remain in the game. If you can never correct what you messed up in the past, and you instead build on it, over and over and over, then you're building on a rotten foundation and the whole thing comes crashing down real quick. You need to fix what's busted to make space for something new. You don't fix a game by breaking it more. Here's your free design lesson for the week.
I want nerfs to be FUCKING RARITY for the most extreme Cases.
ANd i want all classes to have good stuff have their iconic old cards playable and not gutted,or onyl a few classes have actual good cards/support/synergy and rest is left in the dust
I Want wild to be ppwefull and all classes to be powefull btu aslo stay fuckign true to its eterla/legayc format and be where can playyour odlc ards/decks instead of them being/staying gutted and total worhtless trash FROEVER
ANd fight fire with fire works fi actulyl do,blziz doens,t they give some fire and otehrs dried wood or something
Blizz does neither the extreme or the super balance they do a bad and awkard in between.,they allwoed some to be isnane but dont let others. They dotn comit to balance Nor FIgth fire with Fire. And do the worst of Both. ANd buffs/unnerfs are absolutly relevant aswell adn give more options/Make new things apear blizz just sucks at doing all of it,the nerfs,unnerfs and buffs.
It'll probably be someone new, but Xaril, Poisoned Mind is such a good representative of the class' mechanics that I would approve of him being promoted to Classic. In one card you have all of:
Deathrattle
Battlecry (not a strong rogue thing, but the class has had direct synergies in the past and things like Shadowstep make rogue better with them than most classes)
Low stats (much more of a rogue thing than Edwin's high stats)
Briarthorn Toxin and Firebloom Toxin are a little more general-purpose, but attack buffs and damage dealing spells are not uncommon in the class.
And of course indirect combo synergy by adding 2 cheap spells to your hand.
A mantid would be a bit weird as the representative in Classic though. Re-skin him as Vanessa VanCleef and its perfect since she is also a poisons user. Actually, using Vanessa is quite likely now I think of it...
Or know just design new card and then coudl have xaril and Vanessa in the game.
Ah at last, a balance patch! Wild is sav....oh...oh, never mind then. I guess I can find solace in the fact I don't have to climb anymore this month.
Im happy is no wilds nerfs, the format is egenrly if blizz doesnt touchit(rto much) and if anythign we neds huffs and unenrfs and give all their tolsl(again) for wild not destory more cards/nerf for the sake of it.
Wild also certainyl deosnt needs nerfs to something jsut casue tis good/been around for then 1expac. If anything that belogns in standar btu really shouldnt be mentatlity for any format.
It`s obvious that you don`t play Wild...
I FUCKING DO,ive played wild since been a thign Wild.
I WANT BUFFS AND UNNERFS AND MORE SUPPORT MORE DECKS/THEMES/ARCHETYPES
I WANT AS LITTLE NERFS AS POSSIBLE
I want wild to be crazy,i want all to ahve their best stuff as it shoudl in eternal format.
ANd ive reached legend multiple times in wild so i know whats its like I JUST GOT A DIFFERENT IDEA OF WILD THEN THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE and according to people here im prolyl objectivly casue i dont like them and want blizzard to make more decks/archetypes/cards playable instead of NERF EVRYTHING mentality.
They shouldve made shadowform 2mana and Hof midngames insetad f hofing shadowform..
IF talkign abotu wil soul fragments or manari mosher arent used liek at all.
Warlocks healign is reno , occasiaon healbot or lfiestela from spellstone/ancklebiter,armor of some kazzakus pots and izperhys. Not any fragments or manari.
While true, we still have mltiple otehr versions of different characters as cards more then lilians 2. and they could give her a title /bit different look to more match current time Lilian in WoW who is kinda the Forsaken Ruler atm.
Could be something lik LIlian the Forsaken. Or could use her ghost/soul from her fight in revamped scholomance.
Well then that goes against evrythign theyve promised and said about classic set.
Hall of fame gave/gives dust refunds BECAUSE the classic and basic set are/where susposed to be eternaly standard By blzizards Own words.
The classic +basic set always has gotten a different treatment then regular sets. So i DONT think tis unreasonabe to expect/want ANYTHING at all if they rotate it all.
IF theyre indeed gona rotate bbsic/clasisc in basicly entierly i hope get some compensation and actullt bother to unnerf most if not all cards (or partial like did with gigglign in last unnerfs) since wild can handle the higher power, would make people be able with old combo's/decks/cards again and it just makes no sense to keep nerfs that where doen cause hteyd be in standard forever, when they arent in standard at all anymore.
ANd with the giving new copies liek doom in tomb if is indeed rotating could if needed have a weakedn/nerfed version be the one in standard (like say rockbiter at 2 when are going for more windfury stuff for shaman in standard that year but dont want it to be eays to burst but stillhave ti aviable) and keep the unnerfed.
And compenstation if tis dust,packs or anything i dont care to much(id prefer just they refund us like Hof but most likly wont) And they have to as they had said and promsied when wild and standard where seperated theyd forever be in standard which is why Hof gave dust refunds.
And while rotating set would be nice I HEAVLY doubt it will be and even more beign actulyl old cards being back from wild i think more likly is just they roatet all in wild and make new basic/classic thats genrerly far weaker and way less usable then current(which already has alot of bad/terrible stuff in it absic+classic)
Basic sure, but it is the most obvious/fitting as replacing Edwin. and Vanessa is quite different from he dad despite sharing name.
She is far more about toxins and deception(like faking her own death) then more raw fighting sskill/strength of Edwin.
But to change gears id like Lilian Voss and would prefer Vanessa as portait(even got a van cleef cardback they could bring back if she becomes portait)
Uh not realy, Not over Vanessa. She is Edwins Daughter the is by far the most obvious/most fitting replacement as 'successor" of edwin
Heck Succeeding Edwin is her Role in WoW Basicly, She reforms and becomes elader of the Defias Brotherhood.
I just hope cards mentioned will actuyl eb roatted and not get the powerword shield treatment and be made itno really weak cards so they can then keep priniting a new one evry 2years or evry yea
Classic rework we know, but rotating core se ti still heavly doubt. I think its more likyl just get abunch of weak replacements an that evryone egts and that serves as new core set
Likly not
More likly just new basic/classic set thas really really weak and this is done to screw playes out of dust cause thye dont wanna refuned like all of classic.
The card always was fine, its they print to much generaiton so can end up with more cards then started and many posisble answers have eben nerfed,hof'd or rottaed with no replacements.
Yeah Meta card not total garbage tier. 8mana is not good at all. for spednong on 1 removal
Satine is bad thougj,spending almost if nto entire turn in lategame to remove 1minion is hoenstly not good. Selien would be inetresting at like 6 mana 6/1 with same effect much better control and still allows for tempo aswell which i feel she is kinda mleant to be. And wpuld come down on tme still. And blizz sees her as doing priesty things,cause shadow themed (barly really) and is removal so priest identity.
With stat boost xaril is good but 3/2 stats on 4 drop then gott spend 2more mana is just to weak to few stat for his cost and unlike like sonya (who was/is niche still ) isnt cheap enough that can combi it with other stuff in same turn cause he +potions cost 6mana nad thats msot of turn gone already. If was 3 2/2 could do questin on 3, then xaril +potion on 4 and be far more ok satt wise and on curve play.
And he'd be super weak in standard aswell, it be classic Yeah but classic shouldnt gabrage tier either. It should still be something decentt/Good enough and xairl wouldnt make it in standard at all either
Youre even worse at nerfs then blizzard and thats saying alot
I want nerfs to be FUCKING RARITY for the most extreme Cases.
ANd i want all classes to have good stuff have their iconic old cards playable and not gutted,or onyl a few classes have actual good cards/support/synergy and rest is left in the dust
I Want wild to be ppwefull and all classes to be powefull btu aslo stay fuckign true to its eterla/legayc format and be where can playyour odlc ards/decks instead of them being/staying gutted and total worhtless trash FROEVER
ANd fight fire with fire works fi actulyl do,blziz doens,t they give some fire and otehrs dried wood or something
Blizz does neither the extreme or the super balance they do a bad and awkard in between.,they allwoed some to be isnane but dont let others. They dotn comit to balance Nor FIgth fire with Fire. And do the worst of Both. ANd buffs/unnerfs are absolutly relevant aswell adn give more options/Make new things apear blizz just sucks at doing all of it,the nerfs,unnerfs and buffs.
Or know just design new card and then coudl have xaril and Vanessa in the game.
FUCK OF
ALmsot guranetd to be trash tier, like the otehr legednaries theyev added as replacents in classic.
I FUCKING DO,ive played wild since been a thign Wild.
I WANT BUFFS AND UNNERFS AND MORE SUPPORT MORE DECKS/THEMES/ARCHETYPES
I WANT AS LITTLE NERFS AS POSSIBLE
I want wild to be crazy,i want all to ahve their best stuff as it shoudl in eternal format.
ANd ive reached legend multiple times in wild so i know whats its like I JUST GOT A DIFFERENT IDEA OF WILD THEN THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE and according to people here im prolyl objectivly casue i dont like them and want blizzard to make more decks/archetypes/cards playable instead of NERF EVRYTHING mentality.