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Hearthstone | Posted by | 5 years, 4 months ago
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Demon Hunter with a 2-mana hero power?

Honestly, at this point, would that even destroy the class? I get that the cheaper hero power is kind of its gimmick but considering their cards are usually just better version than what other classes can do, would it even be that far off of a change to consider?


We have warlock getting weaker cards because their hero power is so good - so why not apply the reverse to Demon Hunter?

Seeing how every expansion cycle that class finds a way to be oppressive in its aggression, I just want to stop having to wish for nerfs on it.

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  • Honestly, at this point, would that even destroy the class? I get that the cheaper hero power is kind of its gimmick but considering their cards are usually just better version than what other classes can do, would it even be that far off of a change to consider?


    We have warlock getting weaker cards because their hero power is so good - so why not apply the reverse to Demon Hunter?

    Seeing how every expansion cycle that class finds a way to be oppressive in its aggression, I just want to stop having to wish for nerfs on it.

  • Dh have more powerful cards. Example - draw 2 more cards

    Arcane Intellect Card Image versus Acrobatics Card Image

     

    • Quote From Alfi

      Dh have more powerful cards. Example - draw 2 more cards

      Arcane Intellect Card Image versus Acrobatics Card Image

      Comparing Arcane Intellect to Acrobatics really isn't fair because one is an evergreen basic card and the other is an expansion card that will eventually rotate. The basic set sets out what the class does, and the expansion cards are almost always more poweful.

      A more appropriate comparison would be Cram Session to Acrobatics. Both require you build your deck in a certain way to maximize value, and both can draw well above the average number of cards for their cost if your deck is optimized to leverage them.

      • Quote From meisterz39
        Quote From Alfi

        Dh have more powerful cards. Example - draw 2 more cards

        Arcane Intellect Card Image versus Acrobatics Card Image

        Comparing Arcane Intellect to Acrobatics really isn't fair because one is an evergreen basic card and the other is an expansion card that will eventually rotate. The basic set sets out what the class does, and the expansion cards are almost always more poweful.

        A more appropriate comparison would be Cram Session to Acrobatics. Both require you build your deck in a certain way to maximize value, and both can draw well above the average number of cards for their cost if your deck is optimized to leverage them.

        I do not think so, the Cram session deck building requirement is very steep and it does not really fit into mage archetypes. While Acrobatics is plain powercreep on other class cards and is not played because DH have even more ridiculous card draws, mostly generating tempo while drawing cards. Like Silence and draw a card. Cast 4/1 and gain 4 attack and draw a card. Draw 3 cards and reduce their cost to 0.

        • I do not think so, the Cram session deck building requirement is very steep and it does not really fit into mage archetypes. While Acrobatics is plain powercreep on other class cards and is not played because DH have even more ridiculous card draws, mostly generating tempo while drawing cards. Like Silence and draw a card. Cast 4/1 and gain 4 attack and draw a card. Draw 3 cards and reduce their cost to 0.

          People love to cry "powercreep" when powerful cards are released, but strictly speaking I don't think it's valid for comparisons either a) between class and neutral cards or b) between basic and non-basic cards (particularly when you're looking across classes). For instance, you'd never hear anyone complain about how Subdue is a powercreeped Hunter's Mark, or how Combustion is a powercreeped Shadow Bolt, or how both Time Rip and Malevolent Strike are powercreeped Assassinate's. This is for a couple of reasons.

          First, the basic set is designed to express the basic strengths/weaknesses of the class, but many of the cards are intentionally weaker to avoid having them crowd out expansion cards. (This was a common problem with cards like pre-nerf Innervate - it showed up too often in Druid decks because it was better than even expansion ramp tools meant to fit that same slot in the deck.) Second, classes have different baselines for their strengths and weaknesses, so seeing cards which look like powercreep across classes (as with your [Hearthstone Card (Arcane Insight) Not Found] example) often just reflects proper adjustments for the different baselines each class has. Demon Hunter is way better at card draw than Mage, which finds itself at the nexus of drawing and generating resources. As such, we'd expect Demon Hunter to get more out of an equivalent cost, particularly when one is an expansion card and the other isn't.

          Regarding the high power Demon Hunter cards you've outlined, you're being a bit unfair about what these DH cards do. Consume Magic doesn't always draw a card, sometimes it's just a worse Silence. Stiltstepper doesn't always grant +4 attack, it requires you to play whatever you topdeck get the attack buff. Skull of Gul'dan doesn't inherently reduce costs, and even when it does it reduces by 3, not to 0.

          These may seem like arbitrary distinctions when, in practice, these cards usually function as you've described. But that's really the core problem - these "max value" interactions are too common because they all have the same basic build-around requirement (namely, to run a low curve Demon Hunter deck). By contrast, you basically never see a good higher curve Demon Hunter deck. So, the biggest issue is that the best cards in Demon Hunter all push a single archetype because they all have pretty similar requirements to maximize their value.

  • 2 mana, gain +2 Attack. Simply increasing the Hero Power's mana makes it worthless. The change I'd propose would be much more in line with the other Hero Powers.

  • There's just no way to make it both unique and cost 2 at the same time while being not overpowered. Like it or hate it, its simply impossible to redesign at this point and is hardly a problem in most cases. Twin Slice is just more efficient in nearly all cases and is the real powerhouse of the class.

    Friendly

  • They already tried many different 2 mana hero-powers before they released DH. I remember a "Gain + 1 attack, can be used twice each turn", "Deal two damage and take two damage" and a "Gain +1 attack, attacking generates wrath"  Hero Power (wrath was supposed to be a new resource for deamonunters with a new bar under the mana bar, but the Idea got scrapped because 1. what is if they want to try Archetypes that don't involve wrath and 2. they don't like the idea of an permanent UI addition)

    • Honestly, I would have prefered the "+1 attack, can be used twice" over what they got now. This class is just way too efficient compared to other classes in my opinion. No other class in the game has been nerfed so much in quick succession and still come out on top.

  • I dont think the HP is the problem

  • The low cost of the hero power gives the class way too much flexibility in their turns. They almost never waste mana because of that. It's the Genn Greymane effect without suffering from any restrictions. It's absolutely ridiculous.

    People might argue something like "Ah, it's only one damage! It doesn't matter!". Remember pre-nerf Patches the Pirate? As far as i know (i wasn't playing the game at the time but i research a lot), during the reveal period people were underestimating the card because a 1/1 with Charge isn't anything special. One damage isn't a lot, right? Well, turns out that any damage matters against aggro especially for classes that lack healing. It puts you immediately in a race against time. DH does exactly that. It puts you on a clock from turn 1. Any damage you take early on can accumulate really fast and they never run out of gas. Their waves of damage are constant and almost unstoppable. Can you outlast their onslaught of damage from turn 1? Most classes can't. That hero power shouldn't cost 1. I do believe this to be one of the reasons for this class' insane power. They make the most out of their mana in every game.